Just a little info on Pitbulls

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I wonder how many of those pit owners in Toledo have taken their dog to obedience training. I think it would be safe to say that none of them have. You may have a pit problem in your neighborhood, but it is not an issue of too many pits in the neighborhood, it is too many owners not training their dogs properly.

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Please understand that comment is just not applicable to where I live, it's actually laughable. Obedience training! Half these dogs aren't licenced! A lot never see a vet's office. This is a city wide problem not just my neighbourhood though it's worse here from what the stats say. I wish education of owners was the answer here but it's been tried and tried from what the Dog Warden's Office tells me.

We currently have on law here that you can legally own one vicious dog per household. Gee wonderful! May I say that doesn't make me feel all that safe.

Look this will go around and around, I don't dislike the pitbull as a breed, I support responsible ownership of any canine but until you live where I live don't tell me that I shouldn't want BSL. At this point in this city it is likely the only answer or the only remotely workable one to help ensure safety for both our citizens and for the dog warden staff that have to deal with these large dangerous dogs on a nearly daily basis.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

At this point in this city it is likely the only answer or the only remotely workable one to help ensure safety for both our citizens and for the dog warden staff that have to deal with these large dangerous dogs on a nearly daily basis.

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All I have to say is good luck trying to enforce it. I don't think any animal control in any city has enough staff to round up and destroy every pitbull. Making it illegal to own one won't make them all magically disappear. I don't mean this maliciously, but I'm curious to know how BSL's would be effectively enforced because I don't think that it is possible.

Here, we have a law specifically against pit bull type dogs, this includes crosses of those types. However, our dog wardens office is so under staffed, they cannot deal with all pit type dogs unless something happens and they get a call.

Going through town, I have seen plenty of pit type dogs, however, in the time I have been in this area, I have not heard of one pit incident. If there was, it would be big news around here. I do know that if the dog warden sees a pit type dog in your yard, they can and will take it , then euthanize it, and you get a $1500.00 fine for possession of such illegal dog/s... plus any other costs associated. Lately, the warden has been a bit more on top of things, they are now trying to enforce the laws... in conversation with the warden, I was told that it is hard for them to enforce it with so little staff and so many pit type owners... now ppl are literally turning thier pits out to get them off thier property so they dont get that huge fine... leaving pits to run the streets, in fact, we had a few pits running here just 2 weeks ago. One of which was friendly and did not seem to be aggressive, but its counter part, he was another story... mean and vicious.

I do am not a hater of this breed, in fact, I love this breed very much... it really does boil down to responsible dog ownership... years ago, I bought a pup, from someone I had not known well, did not know the parents actually were used for fighting.... know what? This dog never ever ever bit anyone, was softmouthed like our beagle and was good with other dogs, know what? I was a responsible pit owner, she was socialized alot w/ other dogs and ppl, had obedience training.. she was a great dog. Fighting is not genetic.... period. It is a learned behavior, just as well as aggression is for this breed, this breed was not originally a bad breed, in fact, it was known for being one of the better household breeds because of thier sweet nature, it is only the low lifes who started taking these lovely dogs and making them mean to suit thier entertainment needs, and those of others who would pay/bet/participate in the fighting of this breed that have given it a bad name. In my years of exposure to this breed, I honestly have had to put down only 3 pits due to aggression (this is when I ran an animal rescue).. thier owners were not good owners and the dogs ill socialized... thier euthanization could have been prevented with responsible ownership.

I do feel for Jo and her family, I do know the potential for this breed to be bad, but really, it is not the whole breed, it is the owners. Perhaps Toledo needs a law like Mansfield to enable them to do something about this, and it may be the only way..just as it was for Mansfield at the time they made that law.. however, using the excuse that the wardens office is way too understaffed is a cop out on thier part, our wardens office is definately understaffed, but they still do thier job regardless, even covering 3 counties, even if it means they are out late at night, when they would normally be off the clock. Sadly, as much as I would love to own this breed, I cannot due to laws here because of irresponsible owners in the past, its the way it is... but it is what got the problems with this breeds owners under some sort of control. Allowing the rest of the public to feel safe most of the time..

Sadly Jeanne that's why you don't have the issues with pit attacks we have here in Toledo, they are enforcing BSL's in your community. You hardly hear of pit attacks, we see them weekly. Those poor dogs don't have a chance (don't think I don't care about the pitbulls involved), they are euthanized immediately. Brainman they do enforce them...look at Jeanne's post...she lives barely 90 some odd miles from me and her community had to take this hard stance in order to stop the problems. I hate that pits will be taken and put down, but I'm sorry I value public safety over all else and for now in this city there is not a level of safety that is anywhere near reasonable. If there is another workable soluation where responsible owners can keep their pits and pit crosses then I'm all for it but it seems for now we just sit hear waiting for the next news report of yet another mauling.

As far as temperment...this is a quote direct from the American PitBull Terrier Network. These are the folks that breed and judge breed standards and this is what they have to say about genetics and temperment.

Our breed is in mortal danger because too many dogs with fear and human aggression are being bred. People do not realize that temperament is 80% (some say more) genetic in dogs.

Sorry Jeanne but I disagree that pups coming out of two fighting pits breeding don't have a problem with innate aggressiveness that most standard owners are not going to be able to manage.

You can talk about educating owners all you want, you can't educate a moron who wants a pit for his ego to show off to his buddies!

These are usually the people who have a pit loose on the street!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Sorry Jeanne but I disagree that pups coming out of two fighting pits breeding don't have a problem with innate aggressiveness that most standard owners are not going to be able to manage.

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Just because a pit pup comes from fighting stock doesn't mean that the aggression can't be managed with proper care and training. Again, the key is in the owner properly raising and training the animal. It is unfortunate that in your neighborhood this doesn't happen. Maybe a better solution would be to go after the people involved in dog fighting and impose stiffer penalties including jail time. Removing that element from the equation may improve the situation. Also, animal control could work to remove the free-roaming dogs from the street and be more aggressive about collecting the animals showing aggression.

This problem is like a weed: you have to kill the root in order to get rid of the weed. The root of this problem is the human element. It is the humans involved that causes these problems. Taking the dogs out of the equation will not solve the problem. Those people involved in dog fighting will find another way or place to do it.

I pretty sure temperment is genetic!

This is what I found on Temperment

Temperament is behavioral traits and mental attitudes shared by canines and combined with the special characteristics proper to a certain dog breed. When a person talks about the temperament of their chosen breed, they are describing those traits which most good examples of the breed will have, rather than describing a specific dog. A dog who posses all or most of the characteristics expected for their breed is said to have a proper temperament.


A well-raised pit bull of proper temperament is the most loyal and loving dog in the world, bar none.

This is a dog that truly LOVES people, especially children. Pits are notorious clowns, and will Always make you laugh, even in spite of yourself. They are intelligent, and will often "invent" games to keep themselves amused. They seem to subsist on love and attention, and will do almost anything for a little special "loves n hugs" time. They tolerate the rough play of children, loving every minute of it, and, although poor "guard dogs" for property, they will willingly give their lives to save the people they love.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

A well-raised pit bull of proper temperament is the most loyal and loving dog in the world, bar none.

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That describes a lot of dogs!

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

That describes a lot of dogs!

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Ok, it could be used for many breeds of dogs. So now why are pitbulls so bad?


Oh yeah..I forgot, its because OF PEOPLE! :mad:

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

This problem is like a weed: you have to kill the root in order to get rid of the weed. The root of this problem is the human element.

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Did you just say to kill humans? :O :giggle: :rofl: (sorry I couldn't help myself :rolleyes: )

Guys I don't think this thread is meant as an attack on pits in general. I think we are agreed that pits can be a loving and gentle breed. The problem being is a localized one, and one that most likely has Jo at the end of her rope. Things like this are difficult to manage. What works in some places, won't work in others. I hope this situation is resolved soon, but I know it will probably awhile before a resolution is reached.

:grouphug:

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Ok, it could be used for many breeds of dogs. So now why are pitbulls so bad?


Oh yeah..I forgot, its because OF PEOPLE! :mad:

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The problem is the owner, if there is a problem. When I walk my dog I always carry a knife, not because of people, but because of dogs like pitbulls/cross, rottweilers and a bunch bitsa dogs!

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Did you just say to kill humans? :O :giggle: :rofl: (sorry I couldn't help myself :rolleyes: )

Guys I don't think this thread is meant as an attack on pits in general. I think we are agreed that pits can be a loving and gentle breed. The problem being is a localized one, and one that most likely has Jo at the end of her rope. Things like this are difficult to manage. What works in some places, won't work in others. I hope this situation is resolved soon, but I know it will probably awhile before a resolution is reached.

:grouphug:

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hahaha, I didn't catch that! But after seeing your post I read it back. It was quite funny...Made me laugh! :D

But I agree 100% with you tigerlily!:partyon:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Did you just say to kill humans? :O :giggle: :rofl: (sorry I couldn't help myself :rolleyes: ):

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(notable lack of instant-Heston)

A clear signal it has been too long since I watched any of the Planet of the Apes movies!

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

(notable lack of instant-Heston)

A clear signal it has been too long since I watched any of the Planet of the Apes movies!

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I think we are already on that planet! :)

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Did you just say to kill humans? :O :giggle: :rofl: (sorry I couldn't help myself :rolleyes: )

:grouphug:

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Yes. I am very anti-human. I think they are the scourge of this planet and should all be destroyed.

j/k. I meant that the root of the issue is the human element, and you can't solve the problem unless you do something about the human element. You can mask it by taking the dogs away from them, but that is a band-aid fix and won't solve the problem.

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

Yes. I am very anti-human. I think they are the scourge of this planet and should all be destroyed.

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I am also exceedingly carbon-intolerant. Bleep.

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

Yes. I am very anti-human. I think they are the scourge of this planet and should all be destroyed.

j/k. I meant that the root of the issue is the human element, and you can't solve the problem unless you do something about the human element. You can mask it by taking the dogs away from them, but that is a band-aid fix and won't solve the problem.

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Yeah I know what you meant. I'm just a big PITA!! I just thought it was funny, and I'm still giggling about it. :nerd:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Yeah I know what you meant. I'm just a big PITA!! I just thought it was funny, and I'm still giggling about it. :nerd:

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Actually if you read some of my earlier posts on this thread I used humans as an example of why the entire breed shouldn't be destroyed.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

A clear signal it has been too long since I watched any of the Planet of the Apes movies!

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The one with Marky Mark?? :confused:

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

Actually if you read some of my earlier posts on this thread I used humans as an example of why the entire breed shouldn't be destroyed.

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It was the wording and not the actual ideas that had me giggling. I believe you are correct that it is the human element in the equation that causes the problems. :D

Just as I was reading this my boss called and asked if I wanted another Pit.

She is around 3 months old all white with green eyes and a brown dot on her ear. My bosses sister is going to give her to me for free becuase she is partially deef and she has seen me use hand signals with my dogs before and she has seen how well it works. I get to look at her maybe on monday.

I don't even remember what I was posting about before she called. I'm so excited to see if it will work out with the other dogs. The best way to introduce is on nutrual grounds so I might meet the dog first then take Weezie to meet her at the park if I like her temperment.

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Originally Posted by cueball

The one with Marky Mark?? :confused:

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Ew no no no "cold dead hands" Heston versions only!

http://gprime.net/flash.php/thepitbullproblem

wow, that was a great link Jeanne.

Yes, thanks Jeanne. I was looking for that earlier to post, but I couldn't find it.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

http://gprime.net/flash.php/thepitbullproblem

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I think that about sums it all up.

This is what I was going to post earlier.
This happend the other day here in wichita kansas.
I contacted a local rescue in kansas city, mo that day so that they might be able to adopted them out depending on the case. I would hate for them to put down all 68 dogs but its people like this that mess it up for the others.
I called the place they are at and they wont even let anyone see the dogs.

http://ww2.kake.com/global/video/pop...AdTag=homepage

Here is my jinx again!


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...concepts/a.jpg

Click on Featured Videos: Police seize dozens of Pit bulls in a home.

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Originally Posted by BlacknMexicano

Click on Featured Videos: Police seize dozens of Pit bulls in a home.

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I don't get it. Do you have the link?? :)

Nevermind, I get it now! Thanks BlacknMexicano

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Here are my babies..

jinx and jazminhttp://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/DSC02772.jpg

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You should get Jinx and Jazmin I.D chips. Its not that much like $35 and you can get there stomach tattoed for like $25 with your first initial and last name with a -800- number to call incase they get lost. I did and it makes me feel safe to know if they do get out they will have to contact you before they can put them down.

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Originally Posted by BlacknMexicano

You should get Jinx and Jazmin I.D chips. Its not that much like $35 and you can get there stomach tattoed for like $25 with your first initial and last name with a -800- number to call incase they get lost. I did and it makes me feel safe to know if they do get out they will have to contact you before they can put them down.

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Ahhh! tattoos hurt too much... BTW...I love tattoos, but can't take the pain...

They knock the dog out for the tatoos and after that it doesn't bother them, atleast it doesnt look like it hurts them. But only certian Vets do the tats but a lot are doing the ID chips. They put the chip in the back of the dogs neckabout an inch under the skin with a needle and it doesnt hurt the dogs (mine didn't even move) and its about the size of the little ball tip of a bic pen.

Well thanks! I'll have to check into that!

BTW blacknmexicano- I have a off topic dumb question...and I am pretty much assuming from your name that your half mexicano! Do you like reggaeton?

Show the video to these parents. I'm sorry those dogs got abused, millions of dogs of a lot of breeds get abused and in every case it's sickening - pitbull, labrador, poodle...it's never right. Is that video an excuse for pits turning on people though. I don't get the point of it really. It's a sad commentary on animal abuse which isn't the case in every pit attack.

The pit in this recent case was a 2 year old female, a family pet that came under a fence to get to that child attempting to drag that baby back into it's yard. Past two parents that couldn't stop the speed and power of that dog bent on grabbing their kid. It was not a fighting dog. I saw it on TV, a perfectly conditioned dog...and sadly because of the way pits are here and the unprovoked attack on a child....likely one that will have to be put down now. Tell me again how these are dogs I shouldn't worry about and I should just worry about educating a bunch of people while they still retain ownerships of these animals.

18-month-old attacked by pit bull in South Toledo


An 18-month-old girl was attacked by a pit bull yesterday afternoon at Western Avenue and Boody Street in South Toledo, authorities said.

Opal Gibson was taken to Toledo Hospital, where she was in fair condition last night, a hospital spokesman said.

Opal was walking with her parents on Western about 3:30 p.m. when the dog grabbed the girl from underneath a fence and dragged her partially underneath.

She suffered multiple puncture wounds to her right leg, said Karla Hamlin, acting Lucas County dog warden.


I'm sorry if I am offending any of you that own pits and do so responsibly. If you have any workable suggestions, since you know and love this breed, email the Lucas County Dog Warden. This "wait for another attack then go after the owner" obviously isn't working all that well where I live.

No disrespect to you frankykeno, I understand where your coming from.

but I have to post this also these dogs were not pitbulls, but a german sheppard and lab.

Stafford 5-year-old attacked Neighbors save boy from roaming dogs


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Neighbor kills one dog, wounds other after incident; charges pending against owners.

By KEITH EPPS
Charges are pending against the owners of two dogs that attacked a 5-year-old boy in Stafford County, authorities said yesterday.

Sheriff Charles Jett said the boy suffered bite wounds Sunday, but escaped more serious injury because of the intervention of two neighbors, a federal air marshal and an Alexandria police officer.

The air marshal shot both dogs, killing one. The second dog, a mixed black Labrador Retriever, remained at large yesterday.

According to Jett, the child was playing in his front yard on Confederate Way in central Stafford about 1:45 p.m. when a German shepherd and the mixed lab began biting him. It was not clear yesterday how long the dogs had been running loose.

The air marshal came outside after hearing the child's frantic screams and saw what was happening. He and another neighbor, the Alexandria police officer, kicked the dogs away from the child, allowing him to get into his home.

The boy was taken to a hospital by his parents, where he was treated for bites to his arms and hip areas and released, Jett said.

The sheriff declined to name the officers, but credited them with saving the child from further injury.

After the boy got to safety, Jett said, the dogs turned their attention on the air marshal. They circled him, growling and acting aggressively, Jett said.

The air marshal's son had come outside by this time. Jett said the air marshal told his young son to slowly walk back into the home, which he did.

The air marshal moved slowly into his home as well, Jett said. He retrieved a pistol and came back outside. The dogs were in his yard by now and came toward him.

The air marshal shot the German shepherd, killing him instantly. The second dog ran after being shot and wounded.

The air marshal and another neighbor pursued the dog and shot it a second time. But the dog continued to run and got away.

Jett said the air marshal waited until he was a safe distance from homes before firing the second shot.

Animal control officers spent much of Monday and yesterday looking for the wounded animal without success.

The dogs belong to the same owners, who Jett said will be charged. The owners live in the same area, he said.

Because the second animal got away without being tested, Jett said the child will undergo rabies treatments

Jo, in reality, who knows how that dog was treated by past ppl walking past its yard; maybe it was teased and tormented, dogs dont forget, the bottom line is, ANY breed can be unpredictable, and to say that it is only pitbulls, is very unfair. I am certainly sympathetic to the girl who was attacked, and her parents... it seems as if this dog may be unpredictable due to who knows what. But to classify all pit dogs as being mean, unpredictable and such is just wrong... very much like alot of the prejudices experienced within the human race.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Jo, in reality, who knows how that dog was treated by past ppl walking past its yard; maybe it was teased and tormented, dogs dont forget, the bottom line is, ANY breed can be unpredictable, and to say that it is only pitbulls, is very unfair. I am certainly sympathetic to the girl who was attacked, and her parents... it seems as if this dog may be unpredictable due to who knows what. But to classify all pit dogs as being mean, unpredictable and such is just wrong... very much like alot of the prejudices experienced within the human race.

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I like you Jeanne! :)

You have very good points. You also use good wording! LOL :)

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I like you Jeanne! :)

You have very good points. You also use good wording! LOL :)

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Thanks, I try!

It is obvious that this thread is going to go round and round. Pit haters will continue to hate and pit lovers will continue to love. It is unfortunate that these attacks happen and that the entire breed is branded as mean and vicious because of a small percentage of the pit population. The bottom line is that there is no way to get rid of the breed altogether. BSL's may be put in place that may or may not be effective, pit fights will continue to happen, people will continue to breed them, and some of them will end up in the wrong hands.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Well thanks! I'll have to check into that!

BTW blacknmexicano- I have a off topic dumb question...and I am pretty much assuming from your name that your half mexicano! Do you like reggaeton?

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If you mean music like Daddy Yankee HELL YA!

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Originally Posted by BlacknMexicano

If you mean music like Daddy Yankee HELL YA!

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Me too! Ever since I went to Cancun,(thats mainly what they were playing) I'm in love with Daddy Yankee.

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

It is obvious that this thread is going to go round and round. Pit haters will continue to hate and pit lovers will continue to love. It is unfortunate that these attacks happen and that the entire breed is branded as mean and vicious because of a small percentage of the pit population. The bottom line is that there is no way to get rid of the breed altogether. BSL's may be put in place that may or may not be effective, pit fights will continue to happen, people will continue to breed them, and some of them will end up in the wrong hands.

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Well gee thank you for tossing anything I said and any concern I have off as me being a "pit hater". That sort of attitude will end my participation in this thread which quite honestly, is probably a good thing.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well gee thank you for tossing anything I said and any concern I have off as me being a "pit hater". That sort of attitude will end my participation in this thread which quite honestly, is probably a good thing.

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I never called anybody a hater. All I am saying is that nobody here is going to change their opinion. "Haters" and "lovers" are the two extreems and there are other categories in between like "indifferent" and "tolerant".

Man, I totally missed this whole thread! :/

I have rottweilers, not pit bulls, but my dogs are subjected to the same silly laws as other breeds.

I've got no problem with legislation that targets vicious and dangerous dogs; in fact, I fully support it. I do have a problem when the entire breed is targeted because of a few bad apples, beit the people owning them, or the dogs themselves.

I work hard with my dogs, to socialize them, and to put them in the public eye and have people realize that they are just like other dogs. They're approachable and friendly. They adore children, and behave in public. In fact, on any given day, I'd rather take the dogs out than the kids! :D

I've written letters, appeared on television, on the radio, and in print to speak out against BSL. I've gone to hearings and have paperwork, research and bylaws up the wazoo on my desk. BSL does NOT work. Dog bites are still happening. The woman who just underwent the face transplant? Mauled by her dog. It wasn't a pit bull either. It was the wonderful Labrador. All dogs can and will bite, under the right (or wrong!) circumstances.

Supervision of all dogs, especially around children, is key. Education of proper behaviour around dogs is also key, as is TRAINING your animal to be a respectful, and welcome part of society.

there was an older lady working in her garden last night here in Kansas City and her worst nightmare came true... she was 71 and had told her kids that she was worried the neighbor's dogs were dangerous because of how they growled at her through the fence... last night one of the two pitbulls jumped the 6 foot fence and mauled the little old lady... worst part was it took an axe to get the dog off the lady and she didnt die till she was at the hospital...i cant imagine the pain.


i do think that these dogs are bred to be aggressive... which shouldnt be a problem if they are properly housed and all the right precautions are taken. However, it cant be proven that a new owner will do so... its a sticky subject.... but im a big believer that the owners in alot of cases are the problem....BUT since there are no gauruntees on how the owners will treat them i tend to lean towards them not being allowed... i know thats a terrible thing to say but there have been several dog attacks in my area recently that have all involved pitbulls... i feel very bad for those of you fortunate enough to have a great pitbull that has never hurt anyone and has a great disposition which is why i am still on the fence on this issue. -> its not fair to deprive the responsible owners of their pets but then again its a huge risk to sell them with the chance that they will attack someone. :/

By banning pit bulls you are not going to solve anything. Its just like banning certain guns...the good people will turn them in, the bad people won't. By banning the dogs, they will have no chance to revive their image as the great loyal and friendly dogs that they are because all of the pit bulls that would be left are the pits that are agressive fighters owned by the "bad" people.

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Originally Posted by Lauren

there was an older lady working in her garden last night here in Kansas City and her worst nightmare came true... she was 71 and had told her kids that she was worried the neighbor's dogs were dangerous because of how they growled at her through the fence... last night one of the two pitbulls jumped the 6 foot fence and mauled the little old lady... worst part was it took an axe to get the dog off the lady and she didnt die till she was at the hospital...i cant imagine the pain.

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I heard about that, it's awful.

My question is though, why couldn't these dogs have been targeted as vicious DOGS, based on their antics of intimidation and behaviour? I'm sorry, but any dog that repeatedly growled at me through a fence is not going to be tolerated, whether it's a pit bull, doberman, or a golden retriever. Vicious behaviours should not be allowed, by any dog.

There needs to be a law that targets that behaviour. Any dog, regardless of breed, that growls or charges or otherwise intimidates, should be deemed a vicious dog, and penalized by way of higher fencing (with roofing!) and muzzles when off of property. However, a muzzle order wouldn't have worked on these dogs, as they were still on their own property, until they climbed the fence. Where was the supervision? Where's the responsible adult that should have their eyes on their animal?