Disturbing trend...

You kill me cat master :groinkick

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ine=1153159181

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Originally Posted by cueball

You kill me cat master :groinkick

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ine=1153159181

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Just for your brother..I feel it counteracts the scary cat well...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I have noticed something recently that is a little upsetting. I will preface this by saying, this thread is not aimed at anyone in particular, whether on this forum or any of the many others out there.

Lately there seem to be a lot of instant "experts" popping up who freely give out advice on the keeping, breeding and illnesses of reptiles/amphibians/fish/pet rocks. Before you give advice, ask yourself whether it is just regurgitated information that you may have heard from Joe Blow on another site or whether you have confirmed it through your own practices or have first hand knowledge that it works. Some information I have seen given has ranged from partial truth to completely false and potentially dangerous.

Everyone is here to learn and grow as keepers, breeders, etc and it only makes sense that we make sure that the new people get the best possible advice to help them along the way.

The fact that this site has stickies and FAQs is great and sometimes it is better to just point a new users to that information rather than to try to answer a question that you may not be completely clear on to begin with.

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I'll start by admiting that I am new to snake keeping, so I hardly consider myself an "expert" at snake keeping. However, that doesn't mean that I am not learning and that I shouldn't be able to share my learning experiences with others who are learning as well. That doesn't mean that I am proclaiming myself to be an expert, but I am just sharing what I have learned with others. Some shared information may be regurgitated and some may be from first hand experience. I don't see any problem with regurgitating information as long as it is correct.

As a side note, I have noticed in reading the threads that if incorrect information is posted, the "experts" are quick to set it straight.

As a side note, I have noticed in reading the threads that if incorrect information is posted, the "experts" are quick to set it straight.[/QUOTE]


So how does one know, who is new on here and not that experienced, just who is incorrect and who is giving the correct "expert" advice and that the "expert" isn't wrong and just thinks they are the "expert"

My whole start on the "expert" thing was because I have been on here for, oh, about 3 yrs now and I remember some of the "experts" not to long ago ( say under a year) coming on here as newbies and asking all the traditional newbie questions. Now they are handing out advice like they wrote the complete ball python book or something and sometimes there advice is not always 1. the only way or 2. the best way.


That is the reason the whole expert handle scares the hell out of me.

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Originally Posted by jotay

So how does one know, who is new on here and not that experienced, just who is incorrect and who is giving the correct "expert" advice and that the "expert" isn't wrong and just thinks they are the "expert"

My whole start on the "expert" thing was because I have been on here for, oh, about 3 yrs now and I remember some of the "experts" not to long ago ( say under a year) coming on here as newbies and asking all the traditional newbie questions. Now they are handing out advice like they wrote the complete ball python book or something and sometimes there advice is not always 1. the only way or 2. the best way.


That is the reason the whole expert handle scares the hell out of me.

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Very interesting..Who are these experts you are referring to?

"Expert," is usually a term given to a person by themself!





There is something new to be learned everyday... no matter how experienced or inexperienced a person is. And sometimes that can come a from a person with either levels of experience.


The positive to bad advice being handed out is that it is corrected very quickly. The positive to good advice being handed out is that there is a lot of it here!

Like I said I have been on here a while, so I do know better than calling folks out by name on an open forum, I would have thought most knew that :)

I am sure those to whom I am referencing to know, as well as those to whom I am not :)

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Originally Posted by jotay

Like I said I have been on here a while, so I do know better than calling folks out by name on an open forum, I would have thought most knew that :)

I am sure those to whom I am referencing to know, as well as those to whom I am not :)

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Well you made specific reference to people on here while my post was made in general terms about not just this forum but others.

Well said Sputnik!

Lets hope it always continues :)

WHAT!?!
I made reference to people , yeah people, and like I said I am not gonna call them by name. I will send them private messages if I feel the need to. If you don't get one then you don't need to worry who the others are

And no one said anything about your post. My posts are my opinion on this topic as a whole not just your post. I am entitled to post my opinion like others aren't I ?

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Originally Posted by jotay

WHAT!?!
I made reference to people , yeah people, and like I said I am not gonna call them by name. I will send them private messages if I feel the need to. If you don't get one then you don't need to worry who the others are

And no one said anything about your post. My posts are my opinion on this topic as a whole not just your post. I am entitled to post my opinion like others aren't I ?

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Well I for one can't wait...Its like Publisher's Clearinghouse time. Will I get the PM? :D

Ahhhh....see you will just have to wait and see if your the big weiner! ;)

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Originally Posted by jotay

Ahhhh....see you will just have to wait and see if your the big weiner! ;)

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:rofl: Good one!!! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by jotay

Ahhhh....see you will just have to wait and see if your the big weiner! ;)

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Oh, I already KNOW that I am the big weiner, I don't need you to tell me that. But still the anticipation kills me... :partyon:

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

"Expert," is usually a term given to a person by themself!





There is something new to be learned everyday... no matter how experienced or inexperienced a person is. And sometimes that can come a from a person with either levels of experience.


The positive to bad advice being handed out is that it is corrected very quickly. The positive to good advice being handed out is that there is a lot of it here!

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I agree with this 100% I don't feel that anyone is an "expert" at anything. Even the most experienced breeders and keepers are still learning. These threads are open discussions that are open for anybody to comment and a person's level of experience should not discredit them as long as they don't self proclaim themselves as an "expert" and give bad advise.

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Originally Posted by Bdadawg

Instead of referring someone to the search function it is much better to do the search ... post the links ... and tell them you found them by doing a search. This is going to make people want to stick around because you are attempting to help them. I take the most common questions I see about frozen feeders ... write an article on one of my websites, and then copy and paste info into threads and refer people to my site to answer the other related questions.

Bryan

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I don't think anyone was saying that using the search function should be the answer given for questions. As for me , in my original statement I said it should be "encouraged" and that is exactly what you have done by doing the search and then telling them how you found the links you posted. I don't think that encouraging something would make people feel unwelcome as long as you post the message in a friendly manner.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

I really disagree with this statement. There's nothing I dislike more than attempting to learn about a new critter, joining a forum and when I post getting the response "use the search function" and that's the end of their post!

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I know what you mean by that statement. I have seen it done on other forum sites as well, but I didn't mean for people to say use the search function and end their post. The key point I was making was to encourage its use. What Bryan had above is a way I think it can be done without making someone feel unwelcome.:sweeet:

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My whole start on the "expert" thing was because I have been on here for, oh, about 3 yrs now and I remember some of the "experts" not to long ago ( say under a year) coming on here as newbies and asking all the traditional newbie questions. Now they are handing out advice like they wrote the complete ball python book or something and sometimes there advice is not always 1. the only way or 2. the best way.

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So let me follow you here...For example, are you saying that you have an objection to someone with a copy of 'The Complete Ball Python' giving out advice straight from the book in front of them, especially in a situation where they've had no personal experience? I highly doubt anyone doing that appreciates you accusing them of thinking of themselves as an "expert." That person is going out of their way to get an answer to the person asking the question. Jotay, if I were a new user, I'd be somewhat weary of taking advice from you- you've got what, 1 male ball? How well rounded of an experience can you have? Thats not an attack- just an illustration.

I think the issue here is more about *how* someone gives advice, the quality of that advice, and how that person reacts to being corrected in case they are wrong.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think the issue here is more about *how* someone gives advice, the quality of that advice, and how that person reacts to being corrected in case they are wrong.

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Well put!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ine=1152910255

Thanks cue....Jimmy needs love too.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think the issue here is more about *how* someone gives advice, the quality of that advice, and how that person reacts to being corrected in case they are wrong.

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Exactly!!

Jimmy has only ever kept one snake in captivity his entire life for the last 10 years. Jimmy is a die-hard reptile fan and has been out in the wild observing reptiles in nature since his little legs could move. He could dictate to you (and even predict) behaviors of certain reptiles that he has observed and understand the reasons behind those behaviors.

Johny has kept 5-6 different reptile species at any given time over the past 20 years. However, he has never looked online for information or kept hundreds of animals...he just used the knowledge that he gained from reading books.

Jerry has over 150 ball pythons. He bought them all last year in a CH lot. He never had any snakes before, but over this last year everything that could go wrong with his collection has. Bad thermostat, RIs, scale rot, mites....you name it.

Who has more experience....Jimmy, Johny, or Jerry??? If all three of them gave you advice, who's would you take?

Experience is ALWAYS a relative term. Keep that in mind at all times.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Thanks cue....Jimmy needs love too.

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Exactly!!!!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ython/cat6.jpg

Damn Daniel. That may be the best post that I've read on here yet. It definitely had me thinking.

It comes back to being a smart consumer of information, in my opinion. Whether it's something you read googling info, a post here, a book you bought, a phone call...whatever. If you are new and unsure....validate the information. There's not a thing wrong as far as I can see with doing that. Sure with time you'll figure out whose on the ball and whose not (I had to pick that wording okay lol). In the end though I don't care who you are, the onus is on you to provide good care for your snake. If you want to take all the shortcuts and grab info willy nilly without making sure it is valid...I'm sorry but I don't feel really sorry for you...but I do for your snake.

Whoa! I made the "Cue's Creepy Avatar List!"

now that's love, man

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Jimmy has only ever kept one snake in captivity his entire life for the last 10 years. Jimmy is a die-hard reptile fan and has been out in the wild observing reptiles in nature since his little legs could move. He could dictate to you (and even predict) behaviors of certain reptiles that he has observed and understand the reasons behind those behaviors.

Johny has kept 5-6 different reptile species at any given time over the past 20 years. However, he has never looked online for information or kept hundreds of animals...he just used the knowledge that he gained from reading books.

Jerry has over 150 ball pythons. He bought them all last year in a CH lot. He never had any snakes before, but over this last year everything that could go wrong with his collection has. Bad thermostat, RIs, scale rot, mites....you name it.

Who has more experience....Jimmy, Johny, or Jerry??? If all three of them gave you advice, who's would you take?

Experience is ALWAYS a relative term. Keep that in mind at all times.

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It depends, if you already have the facts on these people... it's an easy choice, but if you don't know their back grounds.... then?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

So let me follow you here...For example, are you saying that you have an objection to someone with a copy of 'The Complete Ball Python' giving out advice straight from the book in front of them, especially in a situation where they've had no personal experience? I highly doubt anyone doing that appreciates you accusing them of thinking of themselves as an "expert." That person is going out of their way to get an answer to the person asking the question. Jotay, if I were a new user, I'd be somewhat weary of taking advice from you- you've got what, 1 male ball? How well rounded of an experience can you have? Thats not an attack- just an illustration.

I think the issue here is more about *how* someone gives advice, the quality of that advice, and how that person reacts to being corrected in case they are wrong.

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Very nicely done, counselor. You can defend me on any one of my future crimes!

Most important in this thread is how insightful and informative it has been. We all have me to thank for that. <takes a bow> :)

*wraps her arms around him and gives him a HUGE hug*

yup, you are RIGHT again jamie!!!!!!!

:bow: :colbert2: :gj: :rockon: :taz:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Most important in this thread is how insightful and informative it has been. We all have me to thank for that. <takes a bow> :)

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LMAO.... good one Jamie! (Master of Cats) :)

Thank you very much to Aleesha and Scott! I'd also like to thank my parents, god and the academy for this award...They love me! They really love me!!

poor sally... she'll never live that one down LOL

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

poor sally... she'll never live that one down LOL

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Nope!!

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Originally Posted by brainman1000

I'll start by admiting that I am new to snake keeping, so I hardly consider myself an "expert" at snake keeping. However, that doesn't mean that I am not learning and that I shouldn't be able to share my learning experiences with others who are learning as well. That doesn't mean that I am proclaiming myself to be an expert, but I am just sharing what I have learned with others. Some shared information may be regurgitated and some may be from first hand experience. I don't see any problem with regurgitating information as long as it is correct.

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this is pretty much what most of us first timers or first year bp owners would say.

Learning by experience and learning by the books are two different things. both are very useful and both are critical for being a herp owner.
It would really bother me to see someone who feels their posts are more valuable than others because they have 5 years experiance rather than 5 months yet information was the same.(i'll pack my bags and head on out)

as this fourm grows larger its many new snake owners who sign on in. the admins do a wonderful job of correcting any not so right info being sent out and as all those long time herp owners post wonderful insight and knowledge for the correct way to go about caring for snakes, the good stuff will be out there. lets not all worry. PLENTY of posts to correct any wrong or misleading info.

This comes to you form ERICA:
Frist time snake owner
1.1.O
post regularly
has in the past and will always have...
MILLIONS of questions about BPs!
Wish I would have gotten to this sooner..I feel like now my post is sooooo
yesterday! haha

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Originally Posted by Sputnik

It depends, if you already have the facts on these people... it's an easy choice, but if you don't know their back grounds.... then?

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....then you simply ask them about their background.

Ball-pythons.net is full of good people that know their stuff....all someone would have to do is hang around for a little bit, and they would find that out for themselves ;)

daniel, would you pleeeeease stop making this so simple! man, here we are attempting to complicate the issue and you come along with your simple answers and mess up the whole thread! :P

LOL

Your Killing me on here.
Everyone is so quick to jump and defend they do not read the post.

Elevatethis,
The key word is WROTE the book not read from it.
Read my post again, one more time and see if then you get what I am saying.
I am NOT saying oh someone w/ the complete ball python book reading from it and giving advice is considering themselves an expert and that is a bad thing. I AM saying some on here having been a newbie not long ago and now are giving out advice like they have the knowledge and experience of the person who wrote that book. Not giving out advice from that book, that would not be a bad thing to quote from that book. Get what I was saying now?
Daniel1983's example was a great one. The mere fact that I or anyone else at THIS time has only one bp or anything else for that matter doesn't mean we don't know or our advice wouldn't be good. If folks come on here and only take advice from someone based on the number of animals ones own or cause they have a website and breed then they may very well be doing themselves a grave injustice, don't ya think?
So let me ask you are you saying that someone only owning one bp would not be a good person to ask but yet someone with a long collection list or because they are a "breeder" would be the "expert" or better person to get advice from, please tell me your not.

Anyway, props jglass38 for starting this thread because it has been a great thread and hopefully if some of the newer people read it then what I set out to get across as well as jglass and others, then they will get the message.

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Originally Posted by jotay

Read my post again, one more time and see if then you get one I am saying.

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i understood one thing! do i win a prize??? :carrot:










just joking... i couldn't resist :P

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Originally Posted by jotay

I AM saying some on here having been a newbie not long ago and now are giving out advice like they have the knowledge and experience of the person who wrote that book. Not giving out advice from that book, that would not be a bad thing to quote from that book. Get what I was saying now?

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But some newbies to ball-pythons.net are not newbies to reptiles. That must also be a consideration.

However, I do think that I get your point.

From what I get...your perspective is kinda similar to...If a person wrote an paper on an unfamiliar topic based on information provided by others, but never gives the names and background of their sources. The writer would be writing based off of other people's knowledge and not their own. Does that make them wrong? No, but the fact they do not recognize the people that they gained that knowledge from is wrong and leaves the writer looking uncredible and the reader unsure of the truth in the writing.

Wow...i think that sounds right ;)

It really would not hurt for people to say...."I read this in "The Complete Ball Python"...." or "8 Ball Python's website says this is a good way to do things..." especially if they are basing their advice on reading instead of experience.


Personally, I always try to include the words "From my experience..." or link to a website(or other thread) if I have never had that experience. Sometimes I slip up and forget to 'reference' but at least I try ;) IMHO...that is good practice and as far as I am concerned good 'forum' manners.

Ding Ding Ding.... Recycling Goddess is the Winner:)
Sorry I so suck at typing and I don't edit well :) Glad you caught that, thanks.

Ahhh... Daniel1983, I have to admit I really enjoy your posts.:)
Guess what I was trying to say is -example- I am new on here, I ask questions and hang around for a while. Then all of a sudden I start throwing out advice like I am the end all and be all of ball python knowledge, when not to long ago I was diggin in the dark asking questions. And then when others post ways that may be different than mine I try and invalidate them to validate myself. Even tho there is several ways to do certain things. And to top it off, come off like I am an expert.- end of example-

I love your forum manners Daniel!

and i want my prize to be a pastel or lemon ball... i'll take either one :D