Super Spider and other stuff....

Even if I wanted to make prices come down I'm under no allusion that I could have any significant long-term impact. If a theory of mine that's deemed negative where to be right then the info would eventually come out without me. If there is some small impact from my theory with no proof there should be a much larger price correction when the informed information eventually surfaces with or without my theory coming first. If a theory is incorrect it should be very easy to produce data to discredit it (i.e. someone claim the suspected homozygous spider, tell us what it's like, and how many only spiders it has produced).

Just because I recognize that morph prices almost always go down with time doesn't mean I somehow make it happen or that I even want it to happen. It's just the nature of the supply and demand system. I would actually worry about a morph that didn’t increase supply with time. I’m attributing the rare exception of ghost pricing to increased demand for a morph that used to be considered near normal but is now recognized to make awesome combos. At least I hope a plague didn’t devastate one of the big ghost collections of the few people to appreciate their potential before the combos.

Quote:

---

I don't feel that anyone has any responsibility to share any information with window shoppers. Information IS shared with the people supporting the industry by putting money into it.

---

But I've already pointed out (in other debates) two examples of spider buyers NOT being informed of the spinning issue. And those are just the two I've happened to stumble on in public postings. I would hope there were some reputable breeders who saw that their customers were well informed but I don't think we can count on it happening universally. Once a morph becomes publicly traded I believe the information on that morph should also be public.

Quote:

---

... but if you're waiting for the big guys to address the masses on a public forum it's just not going to happen ... at least I hope that it never does ... because in the end, all that will do is give the window shoppers and the bottom feeders more ammo to try and pick apart the hobby that I love over something as petty as jealousy.

---

Here is the crux of our disagreement. I'd like to promote an industry that is open enough not to need defending with secrets. Surely most morphs and marketing practices can stand up to public scrutiny. If there are some that can’t should they really be defended?

why isnt your website up to date?

Kinda off topic, but here I go....

I understand that some of you like openly distributed info on the internet. I love the stuff, but there is a certain line that needs to be drawn. I can find all kinda information available on the net that is complete bull.....open information works with both good and bad info. Usually the bad info comes from people that do not know the whole story or background about a subject. I work with gathering information all day and have developed a hatred of bad information. I deal with this all the time with my research on the effects of the hurricanes.....all kinda myths and garbage on the net about that stuff. So you know what I have done?.....I said 'the hell with the internet'. All my information comes from direct sources.....I talk to city engineers and people that work with the problems everyday...that is the ONLY way to get good information in alot of situations.

For some reason people that have not experienced things themselves like to talk about the problems, put stuff under 'public scrutiny', and then demand answers to problems that do not even have a direct effect on them. These people do more harm than good.....and they help contribute to the spread of bad information to the public.

What makes me sad is that I see this crap in the ball python industry. So now my work and hobby are filled with garbage info from the internet.

So before anyone starts talking about any topic or giving out information. Be sure you answer three simple questions and clarify the answers to your audience. What qualifies you to form an opinion about a subject? What type of experience do you have to discuss this topic? Who/what are your sources of information?

From those three question, you can learn alot about someone and how much crap they are packing.

So after all this rambling.....Just a bit of advice to all:

If you are uneducated on a subject, don't talk about it and save yourself the embarassment. If you have no experience with the subject and you are talking to people that are experienced, no one cares what you have to say and they will laugh at you behind your back(or even to your face). If your sources have correct information then you should make them know to everyone involved in the discussion so they know what type of ground you are standing on. Get information from listening to the horse's mouth instead of its a$$.



Oh ya....and Randy...

Should everyone place an animal under public scrutiny because of somebody's theory? Who are the people in the ball python community that spread rumors? Who are these people that discuss topics that they have no experience with?

You should be more worried about those questions than the ones that you regularly like to ask.

mr~python,

I've been lazy and only updating the parts of my site where I had something worth updating but I'm getting motivated now to redo the index page too. Not sure yet if I want to put the wild theories right on that first page or link them off.


daniel1983,

You have some good points and I'll be extra careful that I don't start stating my theories as facts. I do think anyone is qualified to ask questions though.

The one place I do tend to get a little factual is on basic genetics. If the standard to be qualified to discuss genetics in ball python circles where very high I'm not sure any genetics talk would be posted. I make mistakes in explaining genetics from time to time and appreciate being corrected as we seem to all be learning this together.

As far as wild theories go, I think I'm the undisputed authority.

Quote:

---

Should everyone place an animal under public scrutiny because of somebody's theory?

---

Only if they want to head off the rumors. If the truth is worse than the rumors they will likely keep quite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

At least I hope a plague didn’t devastate one of the big ghost collections of the few people to appreciate their potential before the combos.

---

You've got to be kidding me right? See, this is the kind of garbage that makes you look like those guys that claim NASA faked the moon landing. Your sense of humor is completely lost among your pages and pages of tedious text and people read stuff like that and think it's true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

But I've already pointed out (in other debates) two examples of spider buyers NOT being informed of the spinning issue.

---

Then maybe those people should have purchased from reputable breeders. Public disclosure of information or not, shady people are going to buy animals, reproduce them, and sell the offspring ... and sometimes those shady people will do ANYTHING to make a sale. That's why it's a good thing that we have such reputable people out there selling animals ... breeders like NERD, RDR, VPI, TSK, MKR ... all of these people will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know before you spend your money because they are professionals. Like I said, support the big breeders and you will be rewarded with the information you desire ... take a shortcut by trying to find a discount with someone shady and you'll probably get burnt one way or the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I would hope there were some reputable breeders who saw that their customers were well informed but I don't think we can count on it happening universally.

---

We can't? Well then how come there is not one thread on the BOI from someone complaining that they bought a spider from a big breeder and wasn't informed of the background of the morph? If the pros didn't disclose information to their customers, they would pretty quickly be taken down a couple of notches. Same reason you can count on the big guys for selling hets ... because if they were to sell normals as hets, sooner or later it would catch up with them and they can't risk that because they have families to feed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Once a morph becomes publicly traded I believe the information on that morph should also be public.

---

The information IS public, you just have to do some work to get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'd like to promote an industry that is open enough not to need defending with secrets.

---

Randy, in all the years you've been around I've NEVER seen you PROMOTE anything or say anything even remotely positive about the ball python industry. All you do is correct people, throw stones, and make $ht up. If you'd really like to promote an open industry, get off the couch, call all the big breeders up, gather the information and publish it. Be the small stone that starts the avalanche. Sitting around crying about secrecy and pining for the big breeders to join hands and sing Kum-by-ya obviously isn't working for you. YOU have the power to bring on the changes that you want to see ... put your energy where your mouth is and get it done.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

All my information comes from direct sources.....I talk to city engineers and people that work with the problems everyday...that is the ONLY way to get good information in alot of situations.

---

That's the saddest part of this whole deal Daniel. The REAL information IS out there for Randy to get straight from the horses mouth, yet he doesn't even try.

He relies on second hand accounts and rumors posted on internet message boards for his information without any way of knowing how credible or experienced the poster of the information may or may not be. In some cases he's even quoted statements by people that have political axes to grind and were deliberately spreading misinformation to discredit the breeder that they were "warring" with. In another case, he was once quoting information provided by a 2 bit jobber that wouldn't know the inside of the ball python business if it landed on his head. It's just totally irresponsible how he chooses to spread erroneous information posted by chest puffing, axe grinding, wanna bee’s as if it was factual.

It boggles my mind that one or two phone calls could clear up all of the information he feels the need to imagine wild theories for because he claims there is no information available, yet the guy refuses to pick up the phone?

I must ask, if he won't make a simple phone call, what is his REAL agenda?

-adam

oh ok, just wondering.

oh, and that strange female that i think you said you got from a petshop looks a lot like a phantom to me.(IMHO)

I just wish she would lay some eggs.

As far as the ghosts, it certainly wasn't something I consider a humors mater. I'm just not sure the demand side completely explains the long running high price of ghosts. Maybe there was a supply side problem. I remember someone claiming to have a large number of ghosts before the crosses came out (like 5 years ago). He should be able to produce hundreds and hundreds of them a year by now if all went well. Maybe the market really is absorbing that many at the current price or maybe all didn't go well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

As far as the ghosts, it certainly wasn't something I consider a humors mater. I'm just not sure the demand side completely explains the long running high price of ghosts. Maybe there was a supply side problem. I remember someone claiming to have a large number of ghosts before the crosses came out (like 5 years ago). He should be able to produce hundreds and hundreds of them a year by now if all went well. Maybe the market really is absorbing that many at the current price or maybe all didn't go well.

---

You've got to be kidding me! ... Ok, so here's your chance to put your money where your mouth is Randy ... If you honestly believe in the whole "full public disclosure" garbage that you spew on thread after thread, how about you share the name of the breeder that you are suggesting had his entire ghost collection wiped out by a plague?

If there really should be no secrets, here is your chance to lead by example. Put the name out there. Should be a pretty simple thing to do. Unless you are full of it and just trying to create doubt and distrust within the ball python market ... then of course you'll come up with some lame excuse about why you can't give out the name or your don't remember it or some junk like that.

Name the name and I'll get that breeder over here and we'll talk about what happened to the large collection of ghosts he had before the combos came out and why there aren't millions of them today.

Your chance to either shine or burn Randy ... do you have the balls for it?

-adam

Quote:

---

how about you share the name of the breeder that you are suggesting had his entire ghost collection wiped out by a plague?

---

I said there was a breeder who claimed to have a lot of ghosts and that I wonder why there doesn't seem to be more of them now. The plague theory was just a possible explanation. I didn't say I had even heard of it happening to a ghost collection, just that it was one possible explanation. I don't pay much attention to names and probably didn't even know the breeders name at the time. It sounded like he was heavily focused on ghosts around 2000 - 2001 so maybe you can fill us in on the name and where those ghosts are now.

So, are you willing to put the plague concept as a possible explanation for supply problems to rest and say that there aren't large breeders who have lost large parts of their collections?

Ah yes... the Ball plague of the 2001's.. I remember reading about that somewhere. It caused spinning in spiders, and thats when the first het pied markers started showing up stapled to their bellies. It was devistating to that one breeder that had all the ghosts in the market too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I said there was a breeder who claimed to have a lot of ghosts and that I wonder why there doesn't seem to be more of them now. The plague theory was just a possible explanation. I didn't say I had even heard of it happening to a ghost collection, just that it was one possible explanation. I don't pay much attention to names and probably didn't even know the breeders name at the time. It sounded like he was heavily focused on ghosts around 2000 - 2001 so maybe you can fill us in on the name and where those ghosts are now.

---

That's what I figured ... gutless ... You admittedly have spread sheets full of breeding data, you can recall the supposed text of forum posts on topics like het pied markers, caramel albino breeding results, and albino importation numbers in great detail, but you don't pay much attention to names? Well isn't the convenient. How about this ... You are making up yet another lie in a pathetic attempt to cast the ball python morph market in a bad light. You throw a provocative word like "plague" out there with not one shred of evidence to back it up and then squirm when asked for any single detail of reality to corroborate your insinuation. Yell "FIRE" in any crowded movie theaters lately?

Just name the name and maybe you'd have some credibility ... without it, you just look silly.

I guess you don't buy into your own bull about "full disclosure"? Not as easy as it sounds is it? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So, are you willing to put the plague concept as a possible explanation for supply problems to rest and say that there aren't large breeders who have lost large parts of their collections?

---

You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air? And what supply problems are you talking about? Why is it that because you can't afford the morphs you want there must be a supply problem? .... I've never had a problem getting my hands on the morphs that I want ... they've always been available in whatever numbers I needed.

But ok, I'll play .... I have no knowledge based in reality of ANY "plague" wiping out ANY ball python collections that would account for any kind of supply problem in the ball python world. Ya know, somehow I have a feeling that even though I made that as clear as I possibly could, you won't be "putting the plague concept to rest" .... you seem to be quite less than honorable.

-adam

Quote:

---

That's what I figured ... gutless ... You admittedly have spread sheets full of breeding data, you can recall the supposed text of forum posts on topics like het pied markers, caramel albino breeding results, and albino importation numbers in great detail, but you don't pay much attention to names? Well isn't the convenient.

---

The snakes and figuring out how they work are much more interesting to me than the people. I know the names of very few breeders other than those who have proven out the morphs I'm interested in (and probably not even all the ones who have proven out morphs). With smaller breeders the real names are not often used on the Internet anyway. Just now I followed the link to the Urban Python site for those two imported ball pythons. I didn't spend too much time looking but didn't see a person's name to associate with those snakes.

If I knew the name (real/business/Internet handle) of the breeder who claimed to have the ghost ball python collection (I don't even remember the number, maybe 20-40) four or five years ago why wouldn't I give it? I didn't say that I had heard he had a mass die off, only that it was one possible explanation for why I don't now hear of someone selling tons of ghosts for the prices I think it would take to move that many. I don't care if you think it's negative to say there were a lot or that there aren't now, I'd say the name.

Quote:

---

You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air?

---

Absolutely. That's what I do. I come up with theories to explain the ball python world as I see it and post them on the Internet and use the reaction to gauge how likely the theory is to fit the real world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Absolutely. That's what I do. I come up with theories to explain the ball python world as I see it and post them on the Internet and use the reaction to gauge how likely the theory is to fit the real world.

---

I can't think of anything more irresponsible. People are investing their savings, their hard earned money into ball python morphs with the hopes of making a little extra money for Christmas presents for their kids or to take their families on a vacation each year and you're conducting "experiments" by making up lies about the morphs that they've invested in? You must be proud of yourself.

Earlier in this thread you stated that a good analogy for the ball python market and ball breeders is the stock market and publicly traded companies ... if you were to make up things the way you do on stock market message boards you would be guilty of federal securities fraud and open to civil liable suits.

It's sad that you are allowed to get away with what you do here and else where on the net.

I love ball pythons and I love the ball python market ... I choose to support it every day ... You're a smart guy Randy and if you wanted to, you could do a lot to help and make the market even better for all of the hard working people that have invested their money in order to make a little extra each year ... instead, all you do is try to tear it down and hurt people that don't deserve to be hurt.

-adam

Quote:

---

I can't think of anything more irresponsible. People are investing their savings, their hard earned money into ball python morphs with the hopes of making a little extra money for Christmas presents for their kids or to take their families on a vacation each year and you're conducting "experiments" by making up lies about the morphs that they've invested in? You must be proud of yourself.

---

I'd rather help the people who haven't bought yet consider the possibilities than encourage those who have to keep every possibly negative issue secret long enough to pass the buck to bigger and bigger groups of smaller and smaller keepers. Heck, we might even stumble on a solution to a few of the issues with the extra time to discuss them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'd rather help the people who haven't bought yet

---

How arrogant that you think people looking to invest their money aren't able to do their own due diligence. Must make all the good people out there looking to invest in ball python morphs feel pretty good when they read your threads and see that you think they're so ignorant that you have to ask the questions for them.

The reality is that if those people inquire about morphs from reputable breeders, they will get ALL of the information they need in order to make an educated decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

those who have to keep every possibly negative issue secret long enough to pass the buck to bigger and bigger groups of smaller and smaller keepers.

---

Who are "those" that you speak of? Lets make with the names Randy? If you're really trying to help as stated above, then help ... if you're not going to name names, then you are just as guilty of keeping secrets and quite the hypocrite.

You still haven't answered my question ... if there are all these secrets out there, and information truly isn't being shared, where are all of the complaints? Where are the posts on the BOI from people that invested in high end ball morphs and were not told about the possible problems? Why are the people that have made investments not raising holy h*ll if they weren't given the entire picture before they handed over their money?

You constantly cite two examples of people that have purchased spider not being informed about possible problems out of how many spiders that have been sold?

If all of these things are really the big problems hidden by the big secrets that you would have people believe exist, where are all of the complaints?

Seems like you're the only one complaining Randy, and as we all may or may not know, you don't even own any morphs.

-adam

Randy, I generally like reading what you have to say, but you have kinda struck a nerve. I get bothered when people speak of something and don't show any proof. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? If you have it, show it. If not, be quiet until you do. If you continue to make guesses of possible secrets, you are no worse than someone that is lying about their animals.

So far, I have seen no documented proof that there are 'SECRETS' like the ones you describe out there and the concept is just not logical to me. You are saying that some breeders lie and withhold information about their snakes in order to make a buck. That would be career suicide. Who would buy from them once the truth finally came out? I want to know WHO ARE YOUR SOURCES that say these 'secrets' exist? Did the top secret spy for the bp police sneak into the breeder's facility and see/record a breeding finding out the information?

I could get a few friends to sign on a forum and play along with some rumor like "did you hear that pinstripes like to slither backwards?" It would be all over the net in a few weeks.

Call up Kevin or Ralph if you have concerns and then tell them sorry for saying that they keep secrets.

How would you feel if someone with NO PROOF was going around saying that you produce genetically flawed animals just because it might be a possibility?

Pinstripes slither backwards??? Wow... I really wanted one of those...too bad!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daniel1983

"did you hear that pinstripes like to slither backwards?"

---

ROFLMAO, thats a great one Daniel. Sometimes you surprise me. :lmao: :banana:

what's so funny? you'll haven't heard about the "backpins" before?


vaughn

i dont get it. anybody who is a somebody KNOWS that pinstripes slither backwards AND they swallow their food thru their other end. DUH!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kavmon

what's so funny? you'll haven't heard about the "backpins" before?


vaughn

---

:rofl: Hmm, backpins huh? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alexrls

i dont get it. anybody who is a somebody KNOWS that pinstripes slither backwards AND they swallow their food thru their other end. DUH!

---

OK, now you are killin me here. :neener:

You are all really funny ppl.

Quote:

---

If you buy from a reputable breeder with a great reputation you'll get the skinny ... heck, even if you don't buy, most of the time if you just call them up and get them talking they'll tell you what you want to know ... but if you're waiting for the big guys to address the masses on a public forum it's just not going to happen ... at least I hope that it never does ... because in the end, all that will do is give the window shoppers and the bottom feeders more ammo to try and pick apart the hobby that I love over something as petty as jealousy.

---

Actually Adam, by those who keep secrets I was mainly referring to you and your statement that you hope potentially negative information (and apparently with you that is most any information) isn't shared in public forums. If window shoppers don't mater and all the customers of reputable breeders are informed of the problems some time between proving interest and actually making the purchase then why not just share the information publicly?

What do I need to prove? That the public didn't know about spinning spiders or kinked caramels until long after the breeders working with them did? You are recommending that this continue, are you arguing that it hasn’t happened? We agree that reputable breeders inform their customers. Are we also agreed that not all breeders are reputable? I think the two spider sale examples (I have no idea who sold them) without knowledge of the spinning issue are enough to establish that the public could benefit from more information earlier. Actually one of those purchases was after it was public, so we need more threads keeping it in the public eye. The question is then if the public benefit outweighs the cost to those who already have spiders. If they are all reputable breeders who are going to tell their customers anyway then what's the cost of letting their customers know earlier while they are still part of the window shopping public?

I have no idea what the various spider and caramel breeders told their customers. My point is they didn’t post about the problems in public until someone else broke the news first. I don’t see how that secrecy can benefit anyone other than the possible non reputable breeders unless it’s to insulate prices against the inevitable public opinion backlash when the information eventually becomes public. What’s the point in delaying? It just means a larger and larger group of breeders will hold the morph when it does become public.

I also don’t know if pinstripes have any significant problems. But based on the short history of ball python morphs I bet if they do it will be a long time before the public finds out about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Actually Adam, by those who keep secrets I was mainly referring to you and your statement that you hope potentially negative information (and apparently with you that is most any information) isn't shared in public forums.

---

Twist my words any way that you like Randy, but I never said that I hope potentially negative information doesn't make it to the public ... Just to be clear because you seem to have some problems comprehending the English language what I said is that I hope that big breeders never just start giving out details of their breeding projects on public forums. That information that breeders have about their projects as well as the years of experience they have to share is their competitive advantage in a very cut throat industry ... They spend huge money out of their own pockets to get these projects started and it’s THEIR decision as to whom they choose to share information about those projects with …. Big breeder are very loyal to their customers as they should be and if you buy from them or show an interest in buying from them they will commonly share TONS of information with you, but in my opinion, they owe people that patronize other breeders (their competition) or people like yourself that spew negative propaganda and hate against the ball python industry out of sheer jealousy absolutely nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I also don’t know if pinstripes have any significant problems. But based on the short history of ball python morphs I bet if they do it will be a long time before the public finds out about it.

---

Why don't you just make something up about them, as you admitted on this thread, that's what you do right?

I really like how you always manage to dodge my question Randy ... if there are so many problems and so many people not being informed, where are the threads on the BOI from people that have spent thousands of dollars on caramels and spiders that are having problems? Shoot, a person gets a snake that is 30 grams smaller than promised and they run to the BOI, if there are really all of these problems out there I would imagine there would be hundreds of threads from ticked of buyers ... but amazingly there are not?? How do you explain that Randy?

Maybe Randy, you are the only one that is ticked off because breeders aren't giving YOU the information that YOU want ... maybe that's why YOU have to make up LIES about problems with morphs as you have already admitted to doing ... maybe if you'd just pick up the phone and call a breeder like Kevin@NERD and ask the questions that you want answers to we wouldn't have to do this pathetic little dance every couple of weeks ... maybe the real problem with the ball pythons is YOU?

You're sounding more and more desperate Randy ... claws scratching on the walls .... running out of BS to feed people? I think it’s pretty obvious that I’m not the only one that smells it. ;)

-adam

So it's not negative information you have a problem with on the Internet, just any information about projects? How would it be ammo if you didn't think it was negative?

What lies have I told? Point out one? I've asked questions and stated possible scenarios for review but what have I stated as fact that isn't true?

Even you have been careful to avoid actually lying. I suspect you have given plenty of false impressions along the way though. Do you really want me to speculate on them?

Quote:

---

if there are so many problems and so many people not being informed, where are the threads on the BOI from people that have spent thousands of dollars on caramels and spiders that are having problems?

---

Have I said there where lots of big spenders getting shafted by big breeders? All I've said is that there where two shafted by unknown breeders. Two is more than enough for me. Who elected you the guilty conscience defender of the big breeders?

Quote:

---

Maybe Randy, you are the only one that is ticked off because breeders aren't giving YOU the information that YOU want ... maybe that's why YOU have to make up LIES about problems with morphs as you have already admitted to doing

---

I do care about the subject but lately I really like to tick you off and watch you walk the razor's edge of lying. I've told no lies.

Quote:

---

... maybe if you'd just pick up the phone and call a breeder like Kevin@NERD and ask the questions that you want answers to we wouldn't have to do this pathetic little dance every couple of weeks ... maybe the real problem with the ball pythons is YOU?

---

So if I called Kevin he would give me all his possibly negative breeding info on caramel, spiders, and womas to post on the web? I'm all about the public disclosure you know. If that's the case why doesn't he just post it himself?

I suspect there are plenty of real problems to spread blame for. We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeanne

Legitimate disputes conducted in a civil manner are fine, but personal attacks of any sort, including name-calling, innuendo, implication, and rumor-mongering, will NOT be tolerated

---

Might not be my place, but no need for personal attacks. I know we've all seen the ToS, lets try to keep it friendly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So it's not negative information you have a problem with on the Internet, just any information about projects? How would it be ammo if you didn't think it was negative?

---

I feel that big breeders are entitled to keep the information about the fruits of their labor (whether good or bad) for their customers and potential customers ... that's what gives them a competitive advantage. The idea that they should share with the public every little detail about their hard work and level the playing field between them and their competitors is just silly. Like it or not ball pythons are big business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

What lies have I told? Point out one? I've asked questions and stated possible scenarios for review but what have I stated as fact that isn't true?

---

OK ... from earlier in this thread ...

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Absolutely. That's what I do.

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Have I said there where lots of big spenders getting shafted by big breeders?

---

You don't have to say it Randy ... you post over and over and over ... month after month ... week after week ... on every single message board that you "feel safe" posting on about spinning spiders, kinked caramels, hypo plagues, possible het markers ... you lay the foundations for a belief that there are lies and deceptions going on in the ball python world and provide ZERO evidence. All I'm saying that if ANY of your speculations have ANY basis in reality, where are the complaints? Surely after all this time there would be one? Right?

[QUOTE=RandyRemington]
I do care about the subject but lately I really like to tick you off and watch you walk the razor's edge of lying. I've told no lies.[/quick]

LOL ... So it's personal for you? ... HAHAHA ... cute ... I'm sure the admins will be happy to know that .... If you think you're ticking me you really have no clue as usual ... ask around about some of the discussions that go on about these silly little threads offline ... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So if I called Kevin he would give me all his possibly negative breeding info on caramel, spiders, and womas to post on the web? I'm all about the public disclosure you know. If that's the case why doesn't he just post it himself?

---

If you call Kevin, I have NO IDEA what he will and won't tell you ... he has always be extremely forth coming with me and has taken the time to answer every question that I ask … my point is you’ve never even tried!.... you are supposedly "speculating" about all of these things and crying because no one is sharing information, but you have admittedly never picked up the phone and called the one person that can give you answers or shut you out and lend credence to your theories ... That doesn’t seem a little ridiculous to you?

As to why he doesn't post it himself? I don't know, you'd have to ask him, but if I had to speculate maybe it's so that he can keep the data to himself and use it to sell books and provide his business with an advantage over his competitors. Why should anyone have to give away information for free when it can help them make a sale? Why don't you just call him and ask?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

---

Randy, I am on this message board every day helping people with ball python questions that will never buy a single animal from me ... I get around 100 emails a day with questions from basic husbandry through investing and genetics and I take the time to answer every single one .... I spend hours every week on the phone talking to people and helping them with their ball python questions and with getting their breeding businesses started ... All this while running two thriving businesses and raising a four year old boy as a single father .... if you want to take cheap shots at me out of desperation, or because I don't let you get away with your “speculation”, that's fine ... I'm a big boy, I can take it ... but think about this .... What have you done for the ball python community? Who have you taken the time to really try to help?

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

---

Easy there, Killer. Them's fighting words now. I'm just one person, but my experiences with Adam both on the board and in phone calls have been invaluable to me for the care of my ball python (and he's answered any questions I've had about kinking in caramels - for example - all I had to do was ask).

Sure, now I've just made a deal with him on two 100% het males, but even before I ever became a customer, Adam would spend hours on the phone answering even the most inane questions. He figuratively held my hand through my crisis with Kashmire's internal parasites, in fact, he's the one who recognized the signs and suggested he get seen by a vet.

Adam - honorable? YOU BETCHA!!!!!!!!

Just curious though, have you ever picked up the phone to talk to Adam, or do you just like to pick fights with him on the forums?

Take it easy there, ladies.

Where to start.....I dislike getting into threads like this but this deserves a comment.

Randy, it's tacky to make snide comments about a person's job. Perhaps I was raised old fashioned but I grew up with the words of a wise man who told me that even if you cleaned toilets for a living, be the best toilet cleaner you knew how to be and then no man could call you down. That comment was below you Randy and Adam, as well as the forum as a whole, deserves your apology.

My only problem with you Randy is that I see you jump into these threads and forcefully state your opinions. Fine and dandy, it's a free world and an open forum. I may not follow your beliefs or lend credence to them but it's your option to voice them. However, I do not see you jumping in to greet a newcomer, offer good solid husbandry advice, offer your condolences to a person hurting because they lost a snake they were struggling to save or in any way contribute in a positive manner to this hobby through this forum.

You seem a very intelligent person. Perhaps a bit of balance is called for so we can see another side to you and perhaps appreciate that.

As far as your direct and rude comments to Adam...quite honestly Adam's a big boy and can easily deal with that. I will however say this, he's been a support to my husband and I during our baby steps into this hobby and has received our thanks and respect both privately and publically. Enough said on that from me.


~~Jo~~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

However, I do not see you jumping in to greet a newcomer, offer good solid husbandry advice, offer your condolences to a person hurting because they lost a snake they were struggling to save or in any way contribute in a positive manner to this hobby through this forum.

---

I totally agree!

While fairly new to this board, I have asked my fair share of questions, and have not had one bit of advice come back from RandyRemington. Adam may not always be fuzzy and warm in his responces, but he is helpful, and his advice is sound.