Snabitat Build

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Oh also I’ve been thinking about enrichment and wondering if snakes like/use hamster wheels or anything like that. People used to put these spinning disks that were like a hamster wheel turned on its side in their tats, I thought a snake might enjoy something like that.

---

I think you're going to have to adjust your expectations regarding how playful your BP will be. BPs sleep about 90% of the time. Occasionally, you may catch your snake reposition himself. You may even see him glass surf for a few minutes. That's it. The most active you'll see him is when you are handling him.

By all means, provide him with branches and vines to help him move about his enclosure. Give him different textures to touch; different smells to experience. Give him ledges. Move all the stuff around occasionally, so he has something to think about. Just don't expect a hamster. A BP is the opposite of a hamster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

I think you're going to have to adjust your expectations regarding how playful your BP will be. BPs sleep about 90% of the time. Occasionally, you may catch your snake reposition himself. You may even see him glass surf for a few minutes. That's it. The most active you'll see him is when you are handling him.

By all means, provide him with branches and vines to help him move about his enclosure. Give him different textures to touch; different smells to experience. Give him ledges. Move all the stuff around occasionally, so he has something to think about. Just don't expect a hamster. A BP is the opposite of a hamster.

---

I hear you. For the record although this is my first snake this is far from my first reptile/exotic pet. But one thing I’ve found over and over again is that animals will surprise you. I prefer to provide options for my animals and if they want to use enrichment items they can and if not they don’t. It will be interesting to see what they like to interact with though.

Snabitat 2.0! The cabinet came and it looks great. As a side note, this cabinet is actually just their 4x2x2 enclosure with solid doors. You could just throw some acrylic in there and make it an enclosure. It’s basically identical to the enclosure but it doesn’t have a top. While I had him out to move the tat, I figured I’d jeuje it up a little bit, although my main goal was to provide more cover for him and more hides. I think it’s a big improvement in terms of snake privacy and appearance! Now that the cabinet is all set up and I have some cover in there for him I’ll probably wait until he’s had one or two feeds per community wisdom before I upgrade to snabitat 3.0. But I’m def gonna start getting the pieces together! BTW the magnet logs were definitely a bust lol.

Does anyone have any recommendations about some supplemental day time lighting? Right now I have a DHP and a CHE set up plus heat mats. I’d like to get some supplemental day time lighting, primarily so I can see the tat better.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...98eebc6572.jpg

Oh also, do you guys think he will be able to climb up this hanging plants? I figured not but my paranoid snarent brain is forcing me to ask.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So right now the inside of his preferred hot hide is holding steady at 83*, the top of the hot hide (aka basking) is 93*, and the cool side is 75*. I have read a bunch of different care sheets from good sources and they often differ a bit about optimum temps. I feel like I’m in the right range. I also have some hides in the middle of the tat so he can really optimize his temp. What do you guys think of these temps? Also, the previous owner reported that these are essentially the temps she was keeping him at and I feel like I should be trying to match what he’s used to.

Re: feeding, the previous owner reported that she was feeding him every other week. Everything I’ve read says feeds should be every week. He seems to be in good condition, I still need to weigh him but just by eyeballing it his body condition seems good to me. Do you think I should stick with the previous owners schedule? When should I offer the first feed? He ate about a week ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Oh also, do you guys think he will be able to climb up this hanging plants? I figured not but my paranoid snarent brain is forcing me to ask.

---

I don't think he will. I think he will test them out, realize that they won't support his weight, and leave them be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

So right now the inside of his preferred hot hide is holding steady at 83*, the top of the hot hide (aka basking) is 93*, and the cool side is 75*. I have read a bunch of different care sheets from good sources and they often differ a bit about optimum temps. I feel like I’m in the right range. I also have some hides in the middle of the tat so he can really optimize his temp. What do you guys think of these temps? Also, the previous owner reported that these are essentially the temps she was keeping him at and I feel like I should be trying to match what he’s used to.

Re: feeding, the previous owner reported that she was feeding him every other week. Everything I’ve read says feeds should be every week. He seems to be in good condition, I still need to weigh him but just by eyeballing it his body condition seems good to me. Do you think I should stick with the previous owners schedule? When should I offer the first feed? He ate about a week ago.

---

Those temps are acceptable, on the cool side. Watch that they don't dip.

As for feeding, what are you feeding him? What size?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Snabitat 2.0! The cabinet came and it looks great. As a side note, this cabinet is actually just their 4x2x2 enclosure with solid doors. You could just throw some acrylic in there and make it an enclosure. It’s basically identical to the enclosure but it doesn’t have a top. While I had him out to move the tat, I figured I’d jeuje it up a little bit, although my main goal was to provide more cover for him and more hides. I think it’s a big improvement in terms of snake privacy and appearance! Now that the cabinet is all set up and I have some cover in there for him I’ll probably wait until he’s had one or two feeds per community wisdom before I upgrade to snabitat 3.0. But I’m def gonna start getting the pieces together! BTW the magnet logs were definitely a bust lol.

Does anyone have any recommendations about some supplemental day time lighting? Right now I have a DHP and a CHE set up plus heat mats. I’d like to get some supplemental day time lighting, primarily so I can see the tat better.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...98eebc6572.jpg

---

Looks great. That cabinet's going to be a very convenient place to keep your supplies. I'm a little envious.

Another addition for you to consider, a camera. I mentioned, previously, that your snake isn't going to be very active. When he is active, he'll be most active at night. A timelapse camera will allow you to capture this activity. That it has a timelapse feature is important. You don't want to have to search through hours of video. In the linked video, I can review 8 hours of activity in 1 minute. It also needs to be able to film in the dark. They are not expensive either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

Looks great. That cabinet's going to be a very convenient place to keep your supplies. I'm a little envious.

Another addition for you to consider, a camera. I mentioned, previously, that your snake isn't going to be very active. When he is active, he'll be most active at night. A timelapse camera will allow you to capture this activity. That it has a timelapse feature is important. You don't want to have to search through hours of video. In the linked video, I can review 8 hours of activity in 1 minute. It also needs to be able to film in the dark. They are not expensive either.

---

Ooh a camera is a great idea! Add that to the shopping list lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

So right now the inside of his preferred hot hide is holding steady at 83*, the top of the hot hide (aka basking) is 93*, and the cool side is 75*. I have read a bunch of different care sheets from good sources and they often differ a bit about optimum temps. I feel like I’m in the right range. I also have some hides in the middle of the tat so he can really optimize his temp. What do you guys think of these temps? Also, the previous owner reported that these are essentially the temps she was keeping him at and I feel like I should be trying to match what he’s used to.

Re: feeding, the previous owner reported that she was feeding him every other week. Everything I’ve read says feeds should be every week. He seems to be in good condition, I still need to weigh him but just by eyeballing it his body condition seems good to me. Do you think I should stick with the previous owners schedule? When should I offer the first feed? He ate about a week ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

You can fine tune the temps by noting where the snake spends his time. If he's always in the preferred hot hide, that may mean that it is a little too cool in there and he's not reaching his preferred body temp -- so that might be a clue to bump the temp up in that hide a couple degrees (without, of course, raising the temp too much on top of it). Snakes apparently choose their locations -- their microhabitat of the moment -- on many factors, some of which might make no sense to us, so don't assume that just because there's some warmer spot available that the snake doesn't "want" some spot to be warmer.

Feeding frequency depends a lot on how large a prey item is being fed -- twice as large means roughly half as often. I prefer to feed a prey item that's on the small side compared to other keepers. Feeding frequency also depends on whether the snake is indicating it is hungry -- if it isn't in feeding mode, I'll usually not offer food (ball pythons are much easier in this regard than are other snakes, since BPs will act differently if they're ready for food vs when they're not).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

Those temps are acceptable, on the cool side. Watch that they don't dip.

As for feeding, what are you feeding him? What size?

---

His previous keeper was feeding him large f/t mice every 2 weeks. I think I might start off with a smaller feed so it will be easier to digest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Does anyone have any recommendations about some supplemental day time lighting? Right now I have a DHP and a CHE set up plus heat mats. I’d like to get some supplemental day time lighting, primarily so I can see the tat better.

---

Sorry, I don't use lights. I just rely on the light in the room to provide a day/night cycle. Every time I consider adding light, my research just leaves me confused. As long as your room has a window, you, probably don't need them either.

I use some manually dimmable 12vdc undercabinet LED strips I got on Amazon about 15 years ago.

Usually what I recommend is some sort of LED that's dimmable and is very roughly 'white' spectrum; bonus points if it is IP rated for moisture and dust protection (though in a low voltage device this isn't really a safety issue so much as a hardware longevity issue). Some of the decision is based on how you have to mount the light (sit on top of screen, screw in from underneath, etc).

Ok guys so unsurprisingly I’m struggling with my humidity. Typically my humidity is around 40 and I have to spray to get it up but it rapidly drops back down. My substrate is low-key moist reptiearth mixed with a little spagh and coconut husk, about 3” deep. It seems fairly clear the real problem is the mesh lid. I would LOVE to keep the mesh lid, I really like having my heaters outside of the tank, not to mention I’d rather not spend the money on replacing the lid if I can avoid it. I have been using the acrylic “humidity guard” but it hasn’t seemed to help much. Tonight I taped some plastic wrap over about 2/3 of the tank, probably a bit more, and then replaced the acrylic topper and sprayed. At first the humidity jumped to over 80% (which was my goal because Lenny’s shedding) but after an hour or so it had fallen down to mid 60s. I suspect by morning it will have dropped even further. I’ve seen YouTube videos of people shoring up mesh tops by taping a layer of duct tape over a layer of aluminum foil but I have a hard time believing this would work any better than my modification. Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I have been using the acrylic “humidity guard” but it hasn’t seemed to help much. Tonight I taped some plastic wrap over about 2/3 of the tank, probably a bit more, and then replaced the acrylic topper and sprayed.

---

Please post a pic of the top of your enclosure as it's currently configured. Thanks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fc8998b911.jpg
It’s hard to see cause it’s clear but the taped area is the cellophane and there’s an acrylic topper over it. The humidity was actually better than I thought it would be this am, I think it was 57 when I came downstairs. So this mod def had an effect but not enough. I’m planning to add sp spagh to the sub and I have several new hides coming that I will make into humid hides. Additionally I think if scrap the cellophane and replace it with foil tape all over, and around the lights, I might be set. How does this sound?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c7f83aa4ba.jpg

Also I added a uvb led light, it’s really nice, it has several different Ferguson zone modes preprogrammed in. I’m not sure how much UVB he’s actually getting due to the light being so far away but A with the mods I’m planning to make he should have lots of options to get closer to the light and B I’d like to double the sub that I have in here now so that will help a little. Right now I am using the lowest intensity mode but I might increase the intensity as well when I have the tat fully furnished as there will be much more coverage which will help increase the UVB intensity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My hygrometer has been located in the middle of the tat, I just moved it to the cool side that’s wrapped and it’s reading 77. Maybe I’m actually not that far off. I ordered 2 more hygrometers so I can have one on each end and one in the middle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

How does this sound?

---

Sounds reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Also I added a uvb led light, it’s really nice, it has several different Ferguson zone modes preprogrammed in. I’m not sure how much UVB he’s actually getting due to the light being so far away but A with the mods I’m planning to make he should have lots of options to get closer to the light and B I’d like to double the sub that I have in here now so that will help a little. Right now I am using the lowest intensity mode but I might increase the intensity as well when I have the tat fully furnished as there will be much more coverage which will help increase the UVB intensity.

---

Personally, I wouldn't consider putting a UVb light in my enclosure unless I could measure how much UVb my snake was getting. For that, you'll need a Solarmeter, and they're expensive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

My hygrometer has been located in the middle of the tat, I just moved it to the cool side that’s wrapped and it’s reading 77. Maybe I’m actually not that far off. I ordered 2 more hygrometers so I can have one on each end and one in the middle.

---

Glad to hear it. Of your proposed modifications, I would prioritize the humid hide. I like them because they allow your BP to regulate their own humidity. If he needs more, he ducks into the hide. When he's had enough, he leaves it. I had one for my BP and it worked great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

Personally, I wouldn't consider putting a UVb light in my enclosure unless I could measure how much UVb my snake was getting. For that, you'll need a Solarmeter, and they're expensive.

---

That's great advice (I have a Solarmeter, purchased after a fatal and very dumb user error incident).

For complicated reasons relating to the vitamin D degradation feedback loop, as well as the UVA-based mechanism of exposure self-regulation that at least some herps use, I personally am very skeptical of LED UV lamps at this very early point in their development. Their spectral curve is nowhere near the natural sunlight curve that degradation and self-regulation work in relation to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

Personally, I wouldn't consider putting a UVb light in my enclosure unless I could measure how much UVb my snake was getting. For that, you'll need a Solarmeter, and they're expensive.

---

Wowza you weren’t kidding lol. I wonder if I can find someone nearby who has one that I can borrow [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

That's great advice (I have a Solarmeter, purchased after a fatal and very dumb user error incident).

For complicated reasons relating to the vitamin D degradation feedback loop, as well as the UVA-based mechanism of exposure self-regulation that at least some herps use, I personally am very skeptical of LED UV lamps at this very early point in their development. Their spectral curve is nowhere near the natural sunlight curve that degradation and self-regulation work in relation to.

---

Haha you don’t happen to be located near Albany NY by any chance?? UVB is such a complex issue. I think the vet will be very helpful on this issue when I see her in a week or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Haha you don’t happen to be located near Albany NY by any chance?? UVB is such a complex issue. I think the vet will be very helpful on this issue when I see her in a week or two.

---

No, I'm in Wisconsin.

Be advised that qualified herp vets know very very much about medical issues, and typically know no more about husbandry than they've read written by others who have little to no first hand experience with husbandry. Perhaps your vet has kept many ball pythons both with and without UVB throughout all their life stages and actually has some first hand experience, but I suspect that's not the case. Most people recommending UVB for ball pythons lean very heavily on the 'all reptiles benefit from UVB' claim, which is not based on evidence (as universal claims almost never are) and neglects the complications of actually providing UVB in a usable way in captivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

UVB is such a complex issue.

---

Correct to some extent. For animals that actually need it, or even actually physically benefit from it in keeper-observable ways, it can be pretty complex. In these cases, it is worth figuring out and doing right.

It is simple insofar as it is completely unnecessary for the captive care of ball pythons, though complexity arises when internet commentators complicate the situation with unwarranted claims of its necessity. Every ball python that reached some captive longevity record was kept most of its life without UVB, and virtually every ball python bred in captivity was done so without the use of UVB, and there are no documented cases of physical illness in ball pythons caused even in part by a lack of UVB.

Ok well I just foiled the lid of the tat and the humidity IMMEDIATELY jumped. I supplemented with a spray but I’m really hopeful this will do the trick. There’s still a bit more area I can cover as well if I need to though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

No, I'm in Wisconsin.

Be advised that qualified herp vets know very very much about medical issues, and typically know no more about husbandry than they've read written by others who have little to no first hand experience with husbandry. Perhaps your vet has kept many ball pythons both with and without UVB throughout all their life stages and actually has some first hand experience, but I suspect that's not the case. Most people recommending UVB for ball pythons lean very heavily on the 'all reptiles benefit from UVB' claim, which is not based on evidence (as universal claims almost never are) and neglects the complications of actually providing UVB in a usable way in captivity.



Correct to some extent. For animals that actually need it, or even actually physically benefit from it in keeper-observable ways, it can be pretty complex. In these cases, it is worth figuring out and doing right.

It is simple insofar as it is completely unnecessary for the captive care of ball pythons, though complexity arises when internet commentators complicate the situation with unwarranted claims of its necessity. Every ball python that reached some captive longevity record was kept most of its life without UVB, and virtually every ball python bred in captivity was done so without the use of UVB, and there are no documented cases of physical illness in ball pythons caused even in part by a lack of UVB.

---

Yeah it is so obvious to me that it’s not necessary for healthy animals for exactly this reason. Yet when I posted on r/ballpthons that the benefits of UVB are disputed and that many many balls have been kept without it for years with no ill effects, my comment was removed for being wrong or offering dangerous advice! I’ve done some research on this issue and so far have decided that it seems worth providing but I definitely take your points about the fact that it must not be necessary otherwise all those no uvb snakes would be dead. And that lighting provision is multifactorial and we may not be providing the benefit we think we are. I’ll def continue to do research on this topic!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Yet when I posted on r/ballpthons that the benefits of UVB are disputed and that many many balls have been kept without it for years with no ill effects, my comment was removed for being wrong or offering dangerous advice!

---

Oh. I would think that incorrect claims are best countered with evidence. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I’ve done some research on this issue and so far have decided that it seems worth providing

---

You of course don't have to defend yourself here, but I'd be curious to see the research. I've done some myself (I do provide UVB to about a half dozen of my animals/groups) and have not encountered any that would give me reason to provide it to a ball python.

Omg my humidity is back down in the 60s! Man this is tough. I mean that’s fine for most of the time but that’s with spraying like 2 times a day :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Oh. I would think that incorrect claims are best countered with evidence. :)



You of course don't have to defend yourself here, but I'd be curious to see the research. I've done some myself (I do provide UVB to about a half dozen of my animals/groups) and have not encountered any that would give me reason to provide it to a ball python.

---

To be perfectly fair, they never told me specifically what in my post was so incorrect and I also addressed a variety of aspects of husbandry so I’m just making an educated guess about the reason. But I thought the fact that they never even posted trying to clear things up (from their perspective) was pretty problematic. I just got the rote: “this post was deleted due to inaccurate/harmful information” message. And I was really stumped about what they could have possibly been referring to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, so long as you didn't do or advocate anything illegal, the reasonable response to false claims is evidence-based true claims (that appeal either to data or the reasoning itself). I'll admit that some forums have a problem with newcomers rolling in with the same problematic claims all the time, but those cases deserve a stickied thread or other pre-posting reading list to head off these problematic topics with facts or at least an explanation of the situation.

Irrational resistance to claims about the dubious utility of some cases of captive UVB provision isn't unique to Reddit, but the fact that such comments get disappeared makes useful online "research" best weighted very heavily toward peer-reviewed publications (which publish negative and positive findings equally).

Husbandry checkup time! Post shed, hot end: humidity, 58; basking temp surface 99, hot hide surface 86, air temp 83. Cool end: humidity 69, basking 78, inside hide 77, air temp 78. How we looking? Is that humidity ok or is it too high?

I typically find Lenny in the hot hide or the warm hide. Often hot during the day and warm in the morning. I have yet to spot him on the cool side.

Also here is a mockup I sketched of my 3.0 build. It turns out there is plastic pegboard so my plan is to get a piece of pegboard cut to the exact dimensions of the inside of the tat, cover it with jungle film, and bolt some branches and potted plants too it. I’m still thinking of how I’m going to secure the background to the tat, and how I’m going to prevent Snaby from getting behind it. Ideas include bolting it into the PVC and shoving some foam along the top so it blocks the crack.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4f77d9c6a6.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Husbandry checkup time! Post shed, hot end: humidity, 58; basking temp surface 99, hot hide surface 86, air temp 83. Cool end: humidity 69, basking 78, inside hide 77, air temp 78. How we looking? Is that humidity ok or is it too high?

---

All good except the basking temp. It's too high. You want to aim for 90F.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Also here is a mockup I sketched of my 3.0 build. It turns out there is plastic pegboard so my plan is to get a piece of pegboard cut to the exact dimensions of the inside of the tat, cover it with jungle film, and bolt some branches and potted plants too it. I’m still thinking of how I’m going to secure the background to the tat, and how I’m going to prevent Snaby from getting behind it. Ideas include bolting it into the PVC and shoving some foam along the top so it blocks the crack.

---

My pegboard is secured with thumb bolts set in brass threaded inserts. To keep my snake from getting behind it, I use rubber window insulation strip. My snake got behind it anyway (see my post). It wasn't the insulation that failed. By trying to get a really tight fit, I, inadvertently, bowed the pegboard giving him a gap that he was able to exploit. Since I fixed that, I haven't had any trouble. Though, I reinforced the window insulation by laying some dowel rods on top of the bolts anyway.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/83pZ5vh.jpeg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

All good except the basking temp. It's too high. You want to aim for 90F.

---

Whoops this was a typo, I meant 94 for the hot bask! But I’ll work on getting it down a bit more :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Whoops this was a typo, I meant 94 for the hot bask! But I’ll work on getting it down a bit more :)

---

94F is a different story. 94F is in the range. For 94F, I wouldn't adjust anything right away. I'd monitor it. If it turns out 94F is a spike, then you're good. If 94F is the average, or on the low end, then you should adjust downward.

Adjust your thermostat a degree at a time, allowing time between adjustments to see how much of an effect you're having. Dropping one degree on your thermostat doesn't always result in a one degree drop in your enclosure. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. So, you need time between adjustments to see what effect they have. Be patient and you'll eventually find the sweet spot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

94F is a different story. 94F is in the range. For 94F, I wouldn't adjust anything right away. I'd monitor it. If it turns out 94F is a spike, then you're good. If 94F is the average, or on the low end, then you should adjust downward.

Adjust your thermostat a degree at a time, allowing time between adjustments to see how much of an effect you're having. Dropping one degree on your thermostat doesn't always result in a one degree drop in your enclosure. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. So, you need time between adjustments to see what effect they have. Be patient and you'll eventually find the sweet spot.

---

This is very helpful! I’ll tell you it’s been tough trying to get that basking spot just right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

This is very helpful! I’ll tell you it’s been tough trying to get that basking spot just right.

---

It always is in the beginning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Also I added a uvb led light

---

I bumped into a great paper on these lights:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...lar_UV_spectra



It looks like all tested reptile UVB LED lamps (18 models) fail to provide a safe UV spectrum, and the authors (who include Baines) strongly imply that UVB LEDs should not be used for reptiles until they're redesigned based on further extensive testing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I bumped into a great paper on these lights:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...lar_UV_spectra



It looks like all tested reptile UVB LED lamps (18 models) fail to provide a safe UV spectrum, and the authors (who include Baines) strongly imply that UVB LEDs should not be used for reptiles until they're redesigned based on further extensive testing.

---

This is shocking. Scandalous, even.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

This is shocking. Scandalous, even.

---

Though not really surprising. Most of these sorts of products are pretty clearly designed with the marketing team leading the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Though not really surprising. Most of these sorts of products are pretty clearly designed with the marketing team leading the way.

---

Addendum: the one I find the most troubling is Vivtech. I've talked to Ryan (company owner) in person, and he's on record on some podcasts talking about how he took UVA into consideration when designing the lamps. This appears to have been...misleading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Though not really surprising. Most of these sorts of products are pretty clearly designed with the marketing team leading the way.

---

The article is a couple years old. Hopefully, they've improved their products since then. Anyway, buyer beware!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

The article is a couple years old. Hopefully, they've improved their products since then. Anyway, buyer beware!

---

Taking just one example, the current ZooMed Reptisun UVB/LED is different than the tested model. They added 4 more UVA diodes. Unfortunately, the added diodes are 325nm and 340nm, while the UVA range that regulates D3 production is 315-335 (so only two of those diodes will have any effect). The spectral curve in the UV range is still very far from the solar curve.

https://zoomed.com/uvbled/

I am pretty certain that we know the UVA wavelength used for UV self regulation in herps in virtually no species, so if that wavelength is different in intensity from solar irradiance, herps will fail to adequately self-regulate their exposure. So at this point, if the spectral curve in the UV range isn't very close to that of sunlight, there's plenty of reason to believe that the UV being provided will be useless or dangerous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I bumped into a great paper on these lights:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...lar_UV_spectra



It looks like all tested reptile UVB LED lamps (18 models) fail to provide a safe UV spectrum, and the authors (who include Baines) strongly imply that UVB LEDs should not be used for reptiles until they're redesigned based on further extensive testing.

---

Wow thanks for letting us know. Blurgh I’ll have to get some new lights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk