Scarlette - 2022 Colombian BCI

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

...I've been talking with a family member about her enclosure, and we've been wondering about heating. I'm planning on using heat tape but we are unsure on how to attach it to the tank/set it up in general. Any tips or instructions on how to get the heating set up would be very helpful!

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Heat can be a "problem" with very large tanks/enclosures, especially if your room/house is on the cool side compared to the needs of your snake(s). Heat tapes are mostly designed to be used outside a tank- specifically underneath so the heat rises into it (unless specially made, like the insulated & grounded ones designed to be used in damp environments like whelping boxes & farms). That's why we often refer to them as "UTH" (= under tank heat). Most UTH heat is on the mild size (otherwise you'd be grilling your snake! :O ) and in a large set-up, may not be adequate to achieve the needed warmth for the kind of snake you're housing. (Boas & pythons need more heat than colubrids, for example.)

So it depends whether you're using a tank (screen top) or enclosure as to what else you'd need to install- at least for the colder seasons. You never want to heat the entire floor with UTH- I assume you know that? Usually best to heat no more than half the floor for safety reasons- & obviously you need a reliable thermostat for all heat sources. You will want to actually have the tank or enclosure for a while BEFORE you attempt to move your snake into it- as it will take time to fully test the temperatures you are able to achieve. Nothing worse than trying to test, reconfigure & install different heat sources while a snake is in residence- it's not safe for the snake to do that, & the commotion will stress them.

Glass tanks can be a little harder to keep in the heat, but that's mostly because of all the air-flow on top- which can EASILY be modified. It's also easy to insulate the sides & top, so the type of housing you choose really is up to you. I happen to prefer glass tanks, but every option has pro's & con's. AND EVERY situation is a little different, so don't expect anyone else to say "You need this & this & it will be perfect." IF only...:rolleyes: No, like I said, there are multiple factors that influence what you need, & there's no way around you needing to test it & modify as needed- preferably before the snake is in residence. Your needs will depend on whether you live in Alaska or the Mojave desert, & exactly how much air space is inside, plus how much air flow there is. The reason plastic/PVC enclosures "hold in the heat better" is mostly because they have much less ventilation. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

I've been talking with a family member about her enclosure, and we've been wondering about heating. I'm planning on using heat tape but we are unsure on how to attach it to the tank/set it up in general. Any tips or instructions on how to get the heating set up would be very helpful!

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A picture of the enclosure you're planning to heat would help us better advise you.

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Originally Posted by bogertophis

heat can be a "problem" with very large tanks/enclosures, especially if your room/house is on the cool side compared to the needs of your snake(s). Heat tapes are mostly designed to be used outside a tank- specifically underneath so the heat rises into it (unless specially made, like the insulated & grounded ones designed to be used in damp environments like whelping boxes & farms). That's why we often refer to them as "uth" (= under tank heat). Most uth heat is on the mild size (otherwise you'd be grilling your snake! :o ) and in a large set-up, may not be adequate to achieve the needed warmth for the kind of snake you're housing. (boas & pythons need more heat than colubrids, for example.)

so it depends whether you're using a tank (screen top) or enclosure as to what else you'd need to install- at least for the colder seasons. You never want to heat the entire floor with uth- i assume you know that? Usually best to heat no more than half the floor for safety reasons- & obviously you need a reliable thermostat for all heat sources. You will want to actually have the tank or enclosure for a while before you attempt to move your snake into it- as it will take time to fully test the temperatures you are able to achieve. Nothing worse than trying to test, reconfigure & install different heat sources while a snake is in residence- it's not safe for the snake to do that, & the commotion will stress them.
i'm working with a front opening enclosure, not a screened top. I will not be heating any more than half the enclosure floor, and i still do have plenty of time to test and ensure everything will be safe for her (shes still like, 25").
glass tanks can be a little harder to keep in the heat, but that's mostly because of all the air-flow on top- which can easily be modified. It's also easy to insulate the sides & top, so the type of housing you choose really is up to you. I happen to prefer glass tanks, but every option has pro's & con's. And every situation is a little different, so don't expect anyone else to say "you need this & this & it will be perfect." if only...:rolleyes: No, like i said, there are multiple factors that influence what you need, & there's no way around you needing to test it & modify as needed- preferably before the snake is in residence. Your needs will depend on whether you live in alaska or the mojave desert, & exactly how much air space is inside, plus how much air flow there is. The reason plastic/pvc enclosures "hold in the heat better" is mostly because they have much less ventilation. ;)
i'm not going to be using a glass tank, and the average temperature of my house year-round is 70 degrees f. There is ventilation on both sides of the enclosure. What i'd been meaning to ask is how to use heat tape. Would you just fix it to the bottom of the enclosure? Does there have to be an indent in the bottom for you to put it in?

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I fed her again this Tuesday, and her feeding response only gets better. She stuck and coiled quickly. Scarlette seems to be doing very well, and is getting cloudy again in preparation for shed. Would it be best if I don't feed her again until after she's shed?
A few recent pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/JotGiLr

I would wait until after shed.

Photos are a little blurry- but if she's noticeably cloudy, I'd personally wait. And after all, that's what happens in nature.

Thank you! I will be waiting.

She's over 2/3 the way through quarantine! I'm glad she's doing well!

She shed on Monday, it went well. I'm warming up a meal for her now!

She ate and is doing well. I've started introducing her to her larger enclosure. I allow her to go in/out on her will, watching as she explores and settles in. I'm still working on getting substrate and decor for her larger enclosure, so now is the perfect time to make sure everything is running well.

Fed her last night. Much better strike and coil this time. She's doing well.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

Fed her last night. Much better strike and coil this time. She's doing well.

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The old saying, "practice makes perfect", applies to snakes too. ;) Just think if we'd had to crawl out of our cribs to find food?

She's been eating and growing well, already around 2'2". Increasingly less headshy, and she has a great temperament. Her 6'x2'x2' is built, substrate is in (Coco Husk), along with some decor and climbing options. As of now I'm just watching the heat and humidity and looking for more enrichment.
Needless to say, this animal is amazing.

Sorry for the lack of posts, I ended up in a hospital for about a week and care for the animals was left under someone else. Needless to say they were cared for far better than last time. Weighing her today, she came in at 156 grams and is going into blue. She did refuse food last week. I wont be offering any this week due to her shed. She still has not been moved to the 6' enclosure, and I'm not rushing to move her. Still loving her, very much!

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

Sorry for the lack of posts, I ended up in a hospital for about a week and care for the animals was left under someone else. Needless to say they were cared for far better than last time. Weighing her today, she came in at 156 grams and is going into blue. She did refuse food last week. I wont be offering any this week due to her shed. She still has not been moved to the 6' enclosure, and I'm not rushing to move her. Still loving her, very much!

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So sorry to hear you were in the hospital for a bit- hope everything's okay now. Sounds like your boa is doing fine- I'd do the same thing right now- no rush to move her- especially not while she's in shed.

Fed her just a few minutes ago, I'm seeing what you all mean by hitting HARD. She struck harder than even my 3 year old carpet, with a surprising amount of strength for such a small animal. She is on small adult mice right now (17-20 grams) once a week. Shes gained an inch since I got her, along with some weight. She seems to be doing well on this.

:rofl: Yeah, you always want to stay out of the way of hungry boas. So much fun to feed though. :D

She's doing great. I moved her to the 6' enclosure a bit back, and she is doing good in it. Humidity is sitting higher and there's much more enrichment and vertical space. She doesn't really explore much, mainly staying in her warm hide (mid 80's). She eats well and has shed twice since my last post. She is now 190 grams, and around 26 inches. Her body condition is looking good, I'm not concerned with weight and she's decently lean. She's eating every 7-10 days. My only worry is hydration, she has a large water bowl (plenty big enough to soak in) and a humid hide, but her skin elasticity isn't great and she often just seems dry. I've given her a few soaks to try to help with this, but it doesn't do much. I've only seen her drink once from her bowl. If she has everything she needs will she take care of herself or should I step in more? Both her sheds have been complete with eyecaps, vent, and tip of the tail. Besides the hydration thing, I'm loving her personality and how well she handles. She's growing well.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

She's doing great. I moved her to the 6' enclosure a bit back, and she is doing good in it. Humidity is sitting higher and there's much more enrichment and vertical space. She doesn't really explore much, mainly staying in her warm hide (mid 80's). She eats well and has shed twice since my last post. She is now 190 grams, and around 26 inches. Her body condition is looking good, I'm not concerned with weight and she's decently lean. She's eating every 7-10 days. My only worry is hydration, she has a large water bowl (plenty big enough to soak in) and a humid hide, but her skin elasticity isn't great and she often just seems dry. I've given her a few soaks to try to help with this, but it doesn't do much. I've only seen her drink once from her bowl. If she has everything she needs will she take care of herself or should I step in more? Both her sheds have been complete with eyecaps, vent, and tip of the tail. Besides the hydration thing, I'm loving her personality and how well she handles. She's growing well.

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Just a guess here, but skin elasticity might have more to do with digestion of fats & proteins in her diet, not hydration per se. It's a good sign that her sheds are complete, but how do her stools look & smell? Are they unusually malodorous? Was she ever fed live prey? Snakes can get intestinal parasites from eating live prey, & if that's the case, it might help to have her stool checked by your vet? I'm not saying that IS an issue, but it's just one thing that might be relevant to what you're perceiving as a problem with dry skin & reduced elasticity. Or it might really be nothing?

I know from experience that not all snakes digest equally well either- just a genetic quirk. Or if they were ever dosed with antibiotics (like before you got her?), you might try adding snake probiotics to her food- it might help her digestion (to get more out of everything she eats) & couldn't hurt. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Just a guess here, but skin elasticity might have more to do with digestion of fats & proteins in her diet, not hydration per se. It's a good sign that her sheds are complete, but how do her stools look & smell? Are they unusually malodorous? Was she ever fed live prey? Snakes can get intestinal parasites from eating live prey, & if that's the case, it might help to have her stool checked by your vet? I'm not saying that IS an issue, but it's just one thing that might be relevant to what you're perceiving as a problem with dry skin & reduced elasticity. Or it might really be nothing?

I know from experience that not all snakes digest equally well either- just a genetic quirk. Or if they were ever dosed with antibiotics (like before you got her?), you might try adding snake probiotics to her food- it might help her digestion (to get more out of everything she eats) & couldn't hurt. ;)

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I have only ever fed her f/t and when we first got her she was on f/t. Her waste don't smell like much, and I have seen no abnormalities. I don't believe she was ever given antibiotics, but I will certainly look into probiotics. Do you recommend any specific types, places to get them, or things to look out for?

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

I have only ever fed her f/t and when we first got her she was on f/t. Her waste don't smell like much, and I have seen no abnormalities. I don't believe she was ever given antibiotics, but I will certainly look into probiotics. Do you recommend any specific types, places to get them, or things to look out for?

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I'm familiar with Bene-Bac (for reptiles & amphibians) or NutriBac (for reptiles & amphibians), but if you search there may be a few others too. That's what I'd try- a probiotic- and don't dust it on a damp rodent- instead, pry open the dead rodents mouth & put the powder in the oral cavity, then push the mouth closed. This way the snake won't know & possibly balk at eating a rodent that smells a bit different. (probably not an issue with a boa, but...) If you dust it on, most of it falls off anyway by the time the rodent gets swallowed.

She's doing good, ate today, but I have a concern with humidity. In the summer months it sits around 60-70, but recently it has been in the 40's. I've been misting often, she has a humid hide, a huge water bowl on the warm side, coco coir bedding, what else can I do? I've begin to notice some issues regarding scales sort of folding in where she coils for a large amount of time. She isn't very active in her enclosure, mainly staying in her warm hide, but today I found her in the humid hide while cleaning. I'm doing my best to get my hands on a humidifier to raise the humidity in just my room as my plants and other snakes would benefit from higher humidity. My other snakes are in aquariums at the moment, which they are growing into/temp enclosures, and I tend to block off some of the screening to keep humidity up. But in Scarls enclosure, it doesn't even have a mesh lid. Her last shed was complete along with eyecaps and tail tip, but humidity has dropped since then even with my efforts. Is there ANYTHING else I can do to bump humidity?

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

She's doing good, ate today, but I have a concern with humidity. In the summer months it sits around 60-70, but recently it has been in the 40's. I've been misting often, she has a humid hide, a huge water bowl on the warm side, coco coir bedding, what else can I do? I've begin to notice some issues regarding scales sort of folding in where she coils for a large amount of time. She isn't very active in her enclosure, mainly staying in her warm hide, but today I found her in the humid hide while cleaning. I'm doing my best to get my hands on a humidifier to raise the humidity in just my room as my plants and other snakes would benefit from higher humidity. My other snakes are in aquariums at the moment, which they are growing into/temp enclosures, and I tend to block off some of the screening to keep humidity up. But in Scarls enclosure, it doesn't even have a mesh lid. Her last shed was complete along with eyecaps and tail tip, but humidity has dropped since then even with my efforts. Is there ANYTHING else I can do to bump humidity?

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To be honest, I never paid much attention to the humidity when I kept a BCI- they don't need as much as BPs, you know. Also- it's completely normal (& not related to humidity) for some snakes to have some folded scales where they've been coiled for a while. Some scales (like those on boas, BPs & corn snakes) are easier to fold than others because they're smooth & not keeled. Snakes like rattlesnakes & gopher snakes have keeled scales: a rigid line in the middle of each scale that makes them sturdier, & resistant to being bent. I'd just keep up the humid hide (remember they dry out in a few days & need re-moistening.). Too much humidity can cause health problems too, & if she's shedding good, I wouldn't worry about it.

So it's normal for some scale folding?
When she last shed her humidity was staying a bit higher as it wasn't as far into winter as it is now, it stuck around 50 then. Do boas not rely on outside humidity as much?

Also, question on handling, I have her out a lot. Oftentimes daily, for a few hours. She has never struck or hissed at me and always remains calm, often just sitting somewhere and falling asleep. Is there a limit on how much you should? It doesn't seem to impact how well she feds (hasn't turned down a meal in a while). I'm aware they don't enjoy handling, but is it alright to have them out and about that often?

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

Also, question on handling, I have her out a lot. Oftentimes daily, for a few hours. She has never struck or hissed at me and always remains calm, often just sitting somewhere and falling asleep. Is there a limit on how much you should? It doesn't seem to impact how well she feds (hasn't turned down a meal in a while). I'm aware they don't enjoy handling, but is it alright to have them out and about that often?

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It depends. If you open her enclosure and she crawls out of her own accord, then I think it's great. If you're pulling her out of her enclosure, or even worse out, of her hide, then I don't think it's great. Because they are captives, I think it's healthiest to allow them as much control over their actions as you can.

My Children's python does this. He'll crawl out of his enclosure daily for a week or more. I don't handle him much on these excursions, just enough to protect him from harm. I think the exercise and mental stimulation is good for him.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

So it's normal for some scale folding?
When she last shed her humidity was staying a bit higher as it wasn't as far into winter as it is now, it stuck around 50 then. Do boas not rely on outside humidity as much?

Also, question on handling, I have her out a lot. Oftentimes daily, for a few hours. She has never struck or hissed at me and always remains calm, often just sitting somewhere and falling asleep. Is there a limit on how much you should? It doesn't seem to impact how well she feds (hasn't turned down a meal in a while). I'm aware they don't enjoy handling, but is it alright to have them out and about that often?

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Yes, some scale folding is normal. Ever look at the inside of your elbow? See any creases? It's normal & much the same thing where we (or they) bend. ;)

It's normal in winter for humidity in our homes (& theirs) to be lower, largely due to our home heating & also that winter air outdoors is cold, & cold air holds less humidity to start with. You might try to bump up his humidity in winter (especially if you see any shedding issues) but I'm just saying not to get extreme about it. Wild boas are well adapted to some variations- they certainly don't have perfect conditions for much of the time. Some even think that having little or no variation may make snakes less resistant, health-wise- & that having "perfect conditions for 24/7" makes them more prone to RI or other infections. I can see both sides of this. Stress & other variants (genetics etc.) probably also play a part.

When I had a BCI for many years (who, btw, was always healthy, shed & ate well, & never bit me), she seemed to love being out. I say that in part because she was a real "rodeo" to get her back into her home. :D During that time, sometimes she was just nearby so I could keep an eye on her, but she also liked to snuggle around my waist while I watched movies- or in nice weather, I took walks outside, carrying her. She seemed quite comfortable with all of it.

Much depends on your own empathy & calm, reassuring handling skills- if your boa seems calm & comfortable, is healthy & eats well, I see nothing wrong with having her out (handled or not) for a couple hours. That's what I did too, though not daily. Note- in winter- when my house was on the chilly side (my home t-stat is set to 69-70*)- I provided a heating pad + my own body heat. It's still important that your snake isn't allowed to get too cold when out. When mine snuggled around me, I put a blanket around both of us to keep my heat in. If I thought she needed more, I added a heating pad. She was clearly very comfortable. And it sounds to me like yours 'enjoys' being out & handled too.

One caution: Mine would sit perfectly coiled on my bed while I went back & forth to another room, folding laundry, etc. But one day, after pretending to be a rock for a long time, when I was out of the room for not more than 5 minutes one time, she took off into my open dresser drawer to hide out. Snakes are very good at "hide & seek" (especially if your boa is a lot smaller than mine was). I had no trouble guessing where she went, & she even hissed up a storm at me when I had to take her out- she was so happy with her new "cave" & it was hilarious. So just be ready for that, and better yet- prevent yours from disappearing. Don't trust a snake to stay still, ever. They instinctively wait until they're not being watched- as if we are predators- before they take off. ;)

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Originally Posted by Homebody

It depends. If you open her enclosure and she crawls out of her own accord, then I think it's great. If you're pulling her out of her enclosure, or even worse out, of her hide, then I don't think it's great. Because they are captives, I think it's healthiest to allow them as much control over their actions as you can.

My Children's python does this. He'll crawl out of his enclosure daily for a week or more. I don't handle him much on these excursions, just enough to protect him from harm. I think the exercise and mental stimulation is good for him.

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She doesn't move much inside her enclosure. It's heavily cluttered, temps are good, humidity is a bit lower right now, but she is hardly anywhere but her warm hide. I've found her perched on her cool side like twice in the months shes been in this enclosure. She just, isn't active. Even when shes out, she isn't tense, but she just sits. She'll get comfortable and then just stay in the same spot for hours. She hardly acknowledges my existence, unlike my younger snakes who will tense up or even hiss if I'm cleaning or just walk by. She just, doesn't care for anything but being fed. I've been a bit concerned by her lack of movement in the enclosure, and tried bumping temps and I got no change of behavior out of her. Her life would just consist of sitting, eating, and pooping if I didn't get her out for some more enrichment and socialization.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes, some scale folding is normal. Ever look at the inside of your elbow? See any creases? It's normal & much the same thing where we (or they) bend. ;)

It's normal in winter for humidity in our homes (& theirs) to be lower, largely due to our home heating & also that winter air outdoors is cold, & cold air holds less humidity to start with. You might try to bump up his humidity in winter (especially if you see any shedding issues) but I'm just saying not to get extreme about it. Wild boas are well adapted to some variations- they certainly don't have perfect conditions for much of the time. Some even think that having little or no variation may make snakes less resistant, health-wise- & that having "perfect conditions for 24/7" makes them more prone to RI or other infections. I can see both sides of this. Stress & other variants (genetics etc.) probably also play a part.

When I had a BCI for many years (who, btw, was always healthy, shed & ate well, & never bit me), she seemed to love being out. I say that in part because she was a real "rodeo" to get her back into her home. :D During that time, sometimes she was just nearby so I could keep an eye on her, but she also liked to snuggle around my waist while I watched movies- or in nice weather, I took walks outside, carrying her. She seemed quite comfortable with all of it.

Much depends on your own empathy & calm, reassuring handling skills- if your boa seems calm & comfortable, is healthy & eats well, I see nothing wrong with having her out (handled or not) for a couple hours. That's what I did too, though not daily. Note- in winter- when my house was on the chilly side (my home t-stat is set to 69-70*)- I provided a heating pad + my own body heat. It's still important that your snake isn't allowed to get too cold when out. When mine snuggled around me, I put a blanket around both of us to keep my heat in. If I thought she needed more, I added a heating pad. She was clearly very comfortable. And it sounds to me like yours 'enjoys' being out & handled too.

One caution: Mine would sit perfectly coiled on my bed while I went back & forth to another room, folding laundry, etc. But one day, after pretending to be a rock for a long time, when I was out of the room for not more than 5 minutes one time, she took off into my open dresser drawer to hide out. Snakes are very good at "hide & seek" (especially if your boa is a lot smaller than mine was). I had no trouble guessing where she went, & she even hissed up a storm at me when I had to take her out- she was so happy with her new "cave" & it was hilarious. So just be ready for that, and better yet- prevent yours from disappearing. Don't trust a snake to stay still, ever. They instinctively wait until they're not being watched- as if we are predators- before they take off. ;)

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Alright! When she is out I keep a close eye on her, and if I'm moving around a lot i'll usually just let her sit on my shoulder which she does fine with. I do my best to handle her calmly, often moving slowly and letting her get settled in my hands when I am handling. She is always sure to find a good spot.

About the caution lol, I was doing a cleanout and change of water for my newest girl yesterday. I handled her shortly while getting some new paper towel in there, and then let her back in, directing her to her hide. I went to go grab the pitcher I use for their water bowls, only to find out she had crawled onto a whole different shelf and curled up around a bottle. She seemed content with this, so I cleaned out her water bowl and topped it off, along with misting to keep her humidity up. When I went to add her back, she was much more tense, and clearly reared up in an 's' pose. I guess she must have just gotten a little spooked by watching me work on her enclosure, and she struck at me (missing by a lot). She sure acted like she did NOT want to go back to her tub as I hooked her to move her back lol.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

Her life would just consist of sitting, eating, and pooping if I didn't get her out for some more enrichment and socialization.

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So, you're saying that you pull her out of the enclosure for exercise and enrichment because if you didn't she'd just sit there. In my limited experience as a keeper, that's hard for me to imagine. Both my ball python and my Children's python would take the opportunity to escape through an open door. Not always. Sometimes they'd stay put, but they'd both come out eventually. Maybe, you just need to be more patient.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

Alright! When she is out I keep a close eye on her, and if I'm moving around a lot i'll usually just let her sit on my shoulder which she does fine with. I do my best to handle her calmly, often moving slowly and letting her get settled in my hands when I am handling. She is always sure to find a good spot.

About the caution lol, I was doing a cleanout and change of water for my newest girl yesterday. I handled her shortly while getting some new paper towel in there, and then let her back in, directing her to her hide. I went to go grab the pitcher I use for their water bowls, only to find out she had crawled onto a whole different shelf and curled up around a bottle. She seemed content with this, so I cleaned out her water bowl and topped it off, along with misting to keep her humidity up. When I went to add her back, she was much more tense, and clearly reared up in an 's' pose. I guess she must have just gotten a little spooked by watching me work on her enclosure, and she struck at me (missing by a lot). She sure acted like she did NOT want to go back to her tub as I hooked her to move her back lol.

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I find that when most snakes "lose touch with us" (ie. when we put them down, even though we're nearby) they often don't recognize us visually & may respond defensively as if we never met. Not to worry- it's normal- give them time to recognize you by your scent & touch & they normally settle right back down. Snakes are ruled by instincts- when we're just nearby, they often see us as potential predators rather than the person that just held them- they can't help it. I've seen it many times over the years, & with all kinds of snakes that were always docile when held. ;) They just don't recognize us visually- it's not their best sense.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

So, you're saying that you pull her out of the enclosure for exercise and enrichment because if you didn't she'd just sit there. In my limited experience as a keeper, that's hard for me to imagine. Both my ball python and my Children's python would take the opportunity to escape through an open door. Not always. Sometimes they'd stay put, but they'd both come out eventually. Maybe, you just need to be more patient.

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I mean, she would just sit there. For hours. Her enclosure door is open? She doesn't move from her hide. I have a carpet who will definitely come out of his enclosure if is opened, he is always on the move and willing to explore. Same goes with another one of my boas. But, I have never seen this from Scarl, if I only handled her when she was out in the open or at the front of her enclosure, I would have never handled her in the entire time i've had her (besides from when she was first settling into her qt tub, but I wasn't handling in the first week I got her).
She's not hissing or striking, for that matter even tense when I am getting her from her enclosure or handling. She is calm when she's out, and seems to be comfortable in my presence.
So unless you mean more patient by waiting for days with her enclosure door open (which isn't even possible because I'd need to supervise it) then I don't know what else I can do.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

I mean, she would just sit there. For hours. Her enclosure door is open? She doesn't move from her hide. I have a carpet who will definitely come out of his enclosure if is opened, he is always on the move and willing to explore. Same goes with another one of my boas. But, I have never seen this from Scarl, if I only handled her when she was out in the open or at the front of her enclosure, I would have never handled her in the entire time i've had her (besides from when she was first settling into her qt tub, but I wasn't handling in the first week I got her).
She's not hissing or striking, for that matter even tense when I am getting her from her enclosure or handling. She is calm when she's out, and seems to be comfortable in my presence.
So unless you mean more patient by waiting for days with her enclosure door open (which isn't even possible because I'd need to supervise it) then I don't know what else I can do.

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It might BE because she knows you're there, watching. Snakes fear being preyed on when out in the open- many hold their ground & rely on camouflage to stay hidden when anything is nearby that might see them. OR, it's also because they are 'ambush-predators'- waiting for prey to come within reach.

Now, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting you leave the cage open, go away & not watch- that's a great way to have your snake truly disappear. But not all snakes are good at voluntary exploration. If you want a more adventurous snake, get a bull snake (or gopher, or pine snake- all very similar)-this is because they actively pursue prey and they're also diurnal & not very shy. Ditto for racers, or garter snakes, or most rat snakes. It's not quite fair to compare your BCI with Homebody's Children's python- they have very different personalities. ;)

When I've left it open I was a few feet away, not just sitting there and peering in. She wasn't being like, super closely monitored but I still needed to ensure cats didn't get into the enclosure and she wasn't gone.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

When I've left it open I was a few feet away, not just sitting there and peering in. She wasn't being like, super closely monitored but I still needed to ensure cats didn't get into the enclosure and she wasn't gone.

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That's what I mean- she's aware there is some large creature lurking in the room. Some snakes are wired this way, to sit still- they know instinctively they cannot "out-run" a predator. Rattlesnakes are the same way, fyi- I have lots of experience with them too- they hold their ground & wait for you to be gone- same thing. (And no, don't do this with loose cats-:O )

By the way, I've seen this behavior (sitting still when humans/predators are near) plenty of times in wild snakes. It goes like this: you spot a snake, it's not going anywhere, so you run to get your camera & when you get back moments later, it's vanished. :D It's what snakes do to survive.

What else am I supposed to do? I can't just leave the room and wait for her to come out.
We have housecats, they occasionally venture down to my room, and I just need to ensure they're not going into her enclosure if the door is open or causing her trouble.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

So unless you mean more patient by waiting for days with her enclosure door open (which isn't even possible because I'd need to supervise it) then I don't know what else I can do.

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I suggest opening the enclosure and sitting nearby for whatever time you have available. After dinner, I open my snake's enclosure and sit nearby. Sometimes he comes out. Sometimes he doesn't. If he doesn't come out immediately, I turn on the t.v. or read a book watching the enclosure with one eye. If I have something to do that requires both my eyes, I close up and try again tomorrow. That's what I mean by being patient.

And I want to clear. I'm not criticizing you. I chose to use a choice-based handling approach with my snake because I think it's better, but I'm not so confident my approach is better that I would criticize yours. I'm just suggesting another approach for you to consider. I rooting for your success whatever you decide to do.

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Originally Posted by Ailuros

What else am I supposed to do? I can't just leave the room and wait for her to come out.
We have housecats, they occasionally venture down to my room, and I just need to ensure they're not going into her enclosure if the door is open or causing her trouble.

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Personally I'd never allow a free-roaming snake with cats in the same house, even with plenty of vigilance, because distractions & mistakes can happen. Your boa is not suffering, & free choice exercise is not practiced by everyone that keeps snakes- actually, it's a minority. (unless you count all the accidental escapes, lol)

I can relate to the both sides. Most of my snakes will come out quickly if the opportunities arise. Otoh I’ve left my scrub’s enclosure open for over an hour and he still wouldn’t come out.

That's why I need to be nearby, I need to be watching her. When she's out I am sure to supervise her closely. When she is out, its either out of reach of the cats or I'm actively handling her.
I think choice based handling could be more dependent on snakes individual personalities, my carpet and other boa gladly come out to explore most times when I open their enclosures. I've tried doing the same with Scarlette but she just doesn't come out to explore.
Homebody, your approach works fine for my other snakes, just not Scarlette. I do think it'd would be better to give them the choice of handling, but when it's at the point where they don't choose to move at all, I would still like to be able to socialize and build trust with the snake. When I go to get her out, I always just tap her head with the hook if shes peeking out her hide, and if she tenses or pulls back I often don't handle, but if she just continues to sit there I'll often get her out. This approach seems to work for her.
I handle my snakes differently based on their personalities, all safely and calmly, but how I do is different between all of them. With my carpet and younger boa, I'm always sure to let them know I'm there as not to startle before further interaction. So while I agree with your approach on most levels, it just doesn't work well with Scarlette.

But, she is doing good!! I've managed to get humidity back up as I moved her water bowl to her warm side and started misting more. I got it up to the 60-70's when I do mist, which seems better for her. She is digesting her last meal well.

Ailuros, I couldn't agree more with your post above. :gj: Treat all snakes as the individual personalities they are. Sometimes you can generalize according to species, but don't count on it. ;)

I've been keeping snakes for many years- & it would have been quite boring if they all behaved the same way, so it's a good thing they didn't. :rolleyes:

Hey! It's been quite a while since the last update. Needless to say, she is thriving. Nearly at 300 grams, good body condition, and great temperament. I've grown more acquainted with her personality and stressors over this time. Hasn't had a bad shed, eating well and eagerly, and has remained calm during handling and when exploring new environments. I'm happy with how her socialization is going.
I'm hoping to get some pictures up on the thread soon but wanted to update everyone first.