Pic of my ball pythons

I'm not even going to post a comment against this...You're a warmongering wicked person. I've read other threads you've written. ALl are demeaning and out right rudeest way to give info. If this is how you opperate then have fun. Cause if you can give you're opinoin in a civilised way then of course I'm not going to even consider it.

Would you listen to me if I said I was an experienced owner and fed my snakes carrots of course you wouldn't listen to me!

If you would read past threads, you would see that Adam and I disagree on lots of things... but not on this.

Adam has never been demeaning about his opinions and thoughts... just abrupt and to the point.

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Originally Posted by kaosu_jouen

I'm not even going to post a comment against this...You're a warmongering wicked person. I've read other threads you've written. ALl are demeaning and out right rudeest way to give info. If this is how you opperate then have fun. Cause if you can give you're opinoin in a civilised way then of course I'm not going to even consider it.

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Warmongering wicked person? Now is the name calling really necessary? How about we put on our maturity merit badge for a minute and act like an adult instead of a mud slinging child.

If you don't like what I have to say because it makes you feel bad, that's not my fault ... don't read it then. My intentions are to make sure that your snakes have the best possible care ... if you choose to disregard that because you are put off by my delivery then I feel sorry for your snakes.

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Originally Posted by kaosu_jouen

Would you listen to me if I said I was an experienced owner and fed my snakes carrots of course you wouldn't listen to me!

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If you're going to call me names like a child, I wouldn't listen to you if you were handing out free money.

The internet is a great big place and if you're going to come out and play on it, people aren't always going to spoon feed you what you want to hear. Now you can keep asking for opinions about how to care for your snakes until you get the ones that you agree with, or you can be a little responsible, do a TON of research, but together ALL of the information, and then decide what's best. Your choice.

-adam

Why so you can tear that apart too? You've lost any respect I had for you're opinions as it is....why make it worse?

I'd like to ask the mods to freeze the replies or something. This is no longer a welcome post or a picture related topic.

It's a pethetic attempt to make someoen elses day better by belittleing others and taunting them with meaning less questions.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Warmongering wicked person? Now is the name calling really necessary? How about we put on our maturity merit badge for a minute and act like an adult instead of a mud slinging child.

If you don't like what I have to say because it makes you feel bad, that's not my fault ... don't read it then. My intentions are to make sure that your snakes have the best possible care ... if you choose to disregard that because you are put off by my delivery then I feel sorry for your snakes.



If you're going to call me names like a child, I wouldn't listen to you if you were handing out free money.

The internet is a great big place and if you're going to come out and play on it, people aren't always going to spoon feed you what you want to hear. Now you can keep asking for opinions about how to care for your snakes until you get the ones that you agree with, or you can be a little responsible, do a TON of research, but together ALL of the information, and then decide what's best. Your choice.

-adam

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wow, that's so insightful! Thanks so much!

I know I'm way late on this one but:

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Originally Posted by kaosu_jouen

I'm no Einstin about the creatures...

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Uh...actually....it's Einstein. Again, trying to lighten the mood.

Peace out!

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Originally Posted by kaosu_jouen

wow, that's so insightful! Thanks so much!

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You're very welcome. :D ;)

-adam

Ashley, the posts you posted for examples of ppl "attacking" as you called them, are merely post from great members of our community that are giving you examples of things in a way to possibly make you think about whats being said to you. They are not examples of anyone "attacking" you as you called them.

Unfortunately, when we communicate over the net, we "lose" the emotional things you would hear in a voice or body language you would see in person, which in turn, helps one decide on how the person speaking is conveying the info. And I really think we must recognise this.

All those that have given you advice, are doing so in hopes of helping you care for your ball pythons. This communtiy is very close nit and very passionate about thier reptiles and proper care, I for one am sorry you think ppl are attcking you, but the fact remains they really are not. They are trying to help you.

Also, you must realise, that you also said "you know enough about these creatures but are willing to learn" or something to that effect, as I did not go back and look for your exact wording. Now, if you truelly "know enough", why would you still even be in need or willing to learn? As far as willing to learn, it is apparent, you are not, until something bad does happen and unfortunately, everyone on this forum is going to have to let a dead dog lie and let you learn on your own, because it is not worth the aggrivation of argueing about this with you, seeing as though "you know enough about these creatures".

I as well as many members hope you do not experience some of the things that can go wrong when keeping multiple snakes together, it would be a terrible thing. Good Luck in your ball python keeping and I do sincerely hope that you stick around long enough to be more open about these things.

Now that I have said my peace... I am asking everyone involved in this topic and the other that was started, to please not start argueing and flaming, this topic and the other is already borderline... and I really would not want to have to lock it and move it.... plus I would really like to get back to my lunch before my blood sugar gets lower than it already is. Yummm, a chili cheese coney and tater tots!

Jeanne, stop talking about food!!! I'm stuck at work with no nourishment!

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Jeanne, stop talking about food!!! I'm stuck at work with no nourishment!

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Sorry Lynn...... I am starving, this is unfortunately the first time I have eaten all day, as I have just been too busy around here (site and mostly home) to stop long enough to eat. Heck, if you were closer, I would go pick up lunch and deliver it to ya as a favor.

Oh, man, I wish... I've been here since 8AM and there's nothing around. Stuck here til 3, then running errands with my friend. Doesn't look like I'm going to get food until we go out to dinner tonight :(

Ah, well. Enjoy a Coney dog for me :)

Lynn, thats aweful.... you really should consider keeping snacks of some sort in your purse or desk, for these occassions. If I were you, I would stop and eat well before dinner and have a late supper. hehehe

Lol... it's not a big deal. Normally, this place is pretty good to us. I work at Honors and Scholars on campus and we're allowed to scavage from any event going on. So, normally, we stay well fed. Today's just slow.

And I'm excited for dinner, tonight... I'm going out with a bunch and friends and the boy and we're having our gift exchange! Can't wait!

Besides, I could stand to lose a few pounds :D

Sounds like a blast Lynn! What a great way to start out your weekend. Where ya going for dinner?

Ever heard of "The Old Bag of Nails?" It's a little Irish pub with GREAT food, specialty is fish. If you're ever in C-bus sometime, you really need to check them out. We used to go there alot, but haven't been in awhile with everyone so busy.

I was there once when my son was in Columbus Childrens Hosp. the summer before last, my hubby and I were roaming around, case we just needed a break and happened on that place.... great place actually! Have fun!

Yep! Wantin' some fried Snickers (calorie intake will make up for what I missed out on today). Have a good one!

wow im glad this thread changed into food haven!!! lol

edit: man after i posted this it changed, im cursed

Lol.....I was the first to respond to this thread and didn't ask if you kept them together because I had a feeling thery were and this would happen. IMO it's ok to keep them together and it's even better to house them seperately. It's easier to moniter and everything is simplified. You COULD house them together in a large setup but a 40 gallon isn't a large setup. A 40 gal is ok for 1 adult bp....in fact it is the min. requirement for much I have reD. aNIMALSHOUSED TOGETHER WILL assert thyeir dominance and it can be very stressful especially for the less dominant one. as for the rtb and coastal carpet situation lmao.....no.


As for the jungle comment, jungle is a pattern morph not a color morph(pastle)and it is possible that Vinny is somekind of jungle but not necessarily likely.

I'm confused??

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Originally Posted by Salty

IMO it's ok to keep them together

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and then

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Originally Posted by Salty

aNIMALSHOUSED TOGETHER WILL assert thyeir dominance and it can be very stressful especially for the less dominant one.

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So how is housing them together OK for the less dominant one?

This is honestly not an "attack" ... I am just trying to understand the mind set of anyone that believes it's OK to house more then one snake per cage ... the negatives are cannibalism, disease transmission, stress, lack of space, dominance, etc ... and I can not think of one SINGLE benefit ... if there is a benefit to housing more than one snake per cage, please someone, fill me in ... and if you can't think of any and everyone acknowledges that the negatives are real ... then why would anyone think it is OK?

I'm really just trying to understand ... after working with these animals for 25 years 1 snake 1 cage seems obvious to me ... but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

-adam

I'll tell you a benefit, though it's not to the snake at all: Less money spent, less time having to clean, less responsibility to give.

its only less money spent till u start having problems like RI and Worms or anyother disease then u have to pay 2X to make them go away

Ok, Kaosu, if you're even coming back here, I'm going to ask, What is your reasoning for keeping them together? I mean everyone here may have sounded harsh in giving their reasons for not putting them together, but they gave their reasons, and I'd like to know yours. Just curious :)

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Ever heard of "The Old Bag of Nails?" It's a little Irish pub with GREAT food, specialty is fish. If you're ever in C-bus sometime, you really need to check them out. We used to go there alot, but haven't been in awhile with everyone so busy.

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I think there used to be a Bag O' Nails on Hard Road that recently changed to a sports bar due to liquor license restrictions. A bunch of people from work used to frequent the establishment but sadly I never went. If I'm ever near one I'll check it out.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

"The Old Bag of Nails?"

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I was going to say - "Yes but we were divorced about a decade ago" then thought better of it ;) :P

Well I'm chancing to get torn appart even more here....but what ever. I'm not replyign to stupid pointless, repetive remarks. Your's however is a decent question and deserves a decent responce.

1. Socialization. I have a friend who watches them if I'm away for what ever reason. She has a BP and I don't want my BP to not be comfortable around other BP or feel threatened. Which leads me to #2....

2. Stress. They were raised in with more then themselves in a tank...so why not only darasticly change not only their environment, but all of a sudden be alone in a huge strange place. (People have compared the BP to dogs and humans, which makes no sence cause their social needs are clearly evident...but here goes..take two dogs, they're raised together, one is sold and they are now apart....what happens to the dogs? They can be come stressed and sometimes make themselves sick wanting the other. Sure they may have plenty of room to roam, good food, amazing owners who treat them like a king/queen, but they are still unhappy and whine when alone and with out the other dog...)

3. I have never seen anything bad be an end result of them being kept together. But again this is through people I've met and hung out with...they have BP that are 8+ years old, and get along fine. Mind you they dont' mix the sexes unless they are planning on breeding once they reach sexual maturity and it's only one to one. WHIch I plan on doing when they reach that age.

Those are a few of my reasons for it. This thread is gettign kinda cluttered lol. But yea, those are my reasonings.

To those that said it's only for the costs and maintenence reasons...sorry, but you are mistaken on that one and that's a fact.

Thanks Danielle, have a good one

Ashley

PS I haven't ben scared off yet. lol

ok, first of all whoever housed them in the same encloser knows nothing about what their husbandry needs are and they gave you a really bad mindset.

second, ball pythons ARE MOST CERTAINLY NOT dogs! so dont treat them like a dog. serperating a ball python from another ball python "buddy" makes the snake much happier. they DONT get attached to other snakes.

i used to keep my snakes together and once i seperated them they had a better feeding response and were much more healthy more active snakes. KEEPING TWO SNAKES IN THE SAME ENCLOSER IS NOT A GOOD THING AT ALL!!!!!!

In response to Adam...I said it is okay but that was meant to be like in italics like it's okay but.......

I am just saying these vets and many books say that they can be housed together. Some species like childrens and boas are commonly kept together w/out incident. As I said if you had a very large enclosure something like a naturalistic vivaria w/ numerous hides basking points etc. than I wouldn't see a problem w/ it, but again a 40 gal. isn't large and I think that this is what creates the dominance factor. In a large setup though it wouldn't be such a large factor.

Think of it like this....veiled chamealeons are said to be super aggressive and solitary but if your tank is large enough, you can house numerous animals together. I will say that I prefer individual cages and I recomend it, but I don't think that housing multiples is wrong if certain needs are met. I noticed that some of my snakes I had kept together or purchased from a pet store w/ numerous animals seemed to really appreciate seperate housing, are more friendly, are breeding and eating when they wouldn't before.

To each his own.

Please make it stop. There is no convincing this girl.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Please make it stop. There is no convincing this girl.

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i agree. lock it down and swallow the key!:P

I second the notion, Jamie. It seems like she keeps coming back just to say something that upsets everyone again.

And buckdawg, you should definately check the place out if you get a chance. There's one in Grandview and one in Worthington.

ok kaosu, you have atleast 15 people here that disagree with you, alot that are VERY VERY knoweledgeable about ball pythons, and yet you still do not want to seperate them? i just dont get it. i realize it seems like there is no problem but most likely your snakes hate it.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I second the notion, Jamie. It seems like she keeps coming back just to say something that upsets everyone again.

And buckdawg, you should definately check the place out if you get a chance. There's one in Grandview and one in Worthington.

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You mentioned Grandview and Worthington and made me think of my childhood in Columbus!! You know the bar, Victory's? My sister used to get me in there when I was 16! Boy its been a long time...

Victory's? No... was it on South Campus? They've torn down tons of places down there, and rebuilt everything from the ground up.

I wasn't aware you grew up here, lol. I didn't grow up here, but I imagine I'll be staying for awile :)

EDIT: Reptile-girl: that's what blows my mind. She's got how many people on here telling her that she needs to do the right thing, and she's still not listening. Oh well, gotta admire someone willing to stand by their guns... just feel sorry that her snakes suffer for it.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Victory's? No... was it on South Campus? They've torn down tons of places down there, and rebuilt everything from the ground up.

I wasn't aware you grew up here, lol. I didn't grow up here, but I imagine I'll be staying for awile :)

EDIT: Reptile-girl: that's what blows my mind. She's got how many people on here telling her that she needs to do the right thing, and she's still not listening. Oh well, gotta admire someone willing to stand by their guns... just feel sorry that her snakes suffer for it.

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Im not quite sure where it was. I grew up in Pickerington. We moved away when I was 12 and I have only been back a handful of times (most involved drinking while underage!!). It was a great place to live though..

LOL, true that! I really love it here... it's pretty far from home (from my apartment to my parents' is about two and a half hours) and the drive gets boring, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else---at least for right now :) Too many friends, the boy... couldn't leave it all

I am not weighing in here with an opinion of my own, but I've a lot of experience with mediation, so, keeping emotion out of this and looking at it from a sticktly logical stand point, the fact's break down as thus:



The Pros of keeping more then one snake housed in the same enclouser are:
Less money on housing and energy
Less space taken up
Less cleaning

It is not fact, only opinion that this will:
Socialize the animal or make it happy
Nothing bad has happened so nothing will

The Con's of keeping more then one snake housed in the same enclousure are:
There are known cases of BP cannibalism
Diseases are more easily transmitted
There are known cases of BP's becoming stressed in this kind on environment and lossing health or even dying
There are known cases of injury from dominance struggles from BP's kept under these conditions

I think you can all rationaly take a look and the pro's and con's and decide what is best for the well being of your animals and what risks you are willing to take based on your belief's.

For the recond I'm sticking to my guns because most peopel keep repeating themselves.

I appriciate the conserns and the information, but the all eat healthly (they are separated when food is intorduced) they drink, have regualr vet visits...I think I'm keeping the best eye I can out for them to stay healthy and happy / content. I'm no longer repliing to any posts on here, casue frankly it's all repeats of separate them along with other sarcastic comments.
Don't get my wrong...MANY OF YOU have brought up valid and useful info and I am more elightened. But so far none of my snakes are going for dominance. at the moment my youngest BP was laying ontop of the other two bigger ones and the biggest one was wrapped around the outter rim of the pile and the female was curled in the middle. This may be another forme of dominence...I'm sure someone here will surely let me know. And I welcome this information. But let me know in PM cause like I said I'm not reading / commenting any further on the thread pages.

Thanks for those of you who remained civil uring all this and I hope to talk to you and exchange info and further my knowledge in the BP realm. I'm an eager learner, but, as I am in school, will only listen to those willing to be considerate of my thougths and beliefs, they aren't set in stone, so there is always a willingness on my part to erase and relearn.

If someone can message me some websites or books/articles on BP I'd appreciated it a lot.

Thanks and see ya's around sexy beasts and beastettes

Ashley

What does being in school have to do with anything? I'm in school, too, and I know when to take advice kindly offered. People only started getting pushy when you refused to listen, and insisted that you were right and we were wrong.


And, for the record, it's possible that the reason people are repeating themselves is because they're hoping it'll sink in.

Guess not, though.

Good luck... and I hope your snakes make it all right.

Ashley just take a second and here me out i have not posted yet but i have been following the thread.

There are a lot of herp hobbyists that tell you what you want to here to sell something. For example i asked vin russo (ball python breeder) at a herp show if it would be okay to keep 1.1 ball pythons together. he said yes. Then i asked would it be better for them to be seperated and he said it doesnt matter.

I already knew the answers to the questions i was asking from experience. I used to keep my 1.1 pair together. one of my ball pythons was from a pet shop and one was from a breeder aparently the one from the pet shop had internal parasites and they spred to the healthy one. they both died. This is why i will never put 2 ball pythons together unless for breeding purposes and i would have to know that they are both 100% healthy.:(

I would also like to say that i realy am not an experienced hobbyist but i am replying to this thread because i would like to share my views on this.

I just dont want to see 3 snakes die because of mistake.

Also, there are many more experience ball python enthusiasts here like adam...hes a breeder and has been breeding ball pythons for years. He knows his stuff.

As well as many other experienced ball python enthusiasts here.

Maybe your snakes will live a nice life together but there is a much bigger chance of them living longer seperated.

just my views.

Also, this forum has helped me out a lot whenever i have had a problem.

why do you think we would be spending so much time on this thread if we didnt give a damn.


Jesse

Good post Jesse!

Agreed. Good job, Jesse, though I doubt she'll read it.


Makes me want to cry for these little guys, and the Ig. I just don't get it.

Okay, I'm done. No more posts on this for me.

I just hope my bit of 2 cents help. I always like to see the snakes in the best possible situation. I mean they belong in the wild there only OUR pets they entertain US they deserve the best conditions possible.

Gosh i cant stress enough about this.

I didnt have the guidance of a herp forum when i had my 2 ball pythons together and you know what now there DEAD.

And upsets me that your lucky enough to have this great forum for help and all you do is contradict eveything that is said by telling us that were flaming you and we are not we just really want the best for the snakes.

You have the ability to take action and prevent probable problems and you wont. Even if the people that told you that its fine does not mean that the snakes are better off. They are better off alone and that is not an opinion.

Even if they do not get stressed out being together if one snake has a problem it is likely all of them will.

Please understand where im coming from on this.
Im just trying ta help a fellow herper out.

Jesse

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Agreed. Good job, Jesse.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Good post Jesse!

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:oops: :oops: :oops:

every little bit counts.

Jesse, excellent post but it is falling on deaf ears. Some day this child will come to her senses but it will most likely be at the expense of the pets that she says she cares for. We all can only offer our knowledge and real world experience and if she still chooses to stick to her guns, what can we do? Hopefully she decides to take it elsewhere because I for one don't feel that she adds ANYTHING to this forum. We are all here to learn and grow. Well almost all of us...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Jesse, excellent post but it is falling on deaf ears. Some day this child will come to her senses but it will most likely be at the expense of the pets that she says she cares for. We all can only offer our knowledge and real world experience and if she still chooses to stick to her guns, what can we do? Hopefully she decides to take it elsewhere because I for one don't feel that she adds ANYTHING to this forum. We are all here to learn and grow. Well almost all of us...

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Sadly I agree

this one really upset me because i can relate to the issue

Yup. Sad it is..

Where in NY are you by the way?

Im in westchester. Where are you located if you dont mind me asking?

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Originally Posted by snunior

Im in westchester. Where are you located if you dont mind me asking?

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Currently South Florida but I am moving back home starting next week. Before moving down here I spent the last 3 years living in Manhattan. Going to live outside the city this time around (prob NJ) and I have a new job in Manhattan.