Beans is being stubborn, or just picky.

45 min a day is incredibly excessive. You should not be handling, touching, or even looking at this animal funny until it takes 3 consecutive meals with zero issues. Constantly pacing the cage is not begging to be handled, it is a sign of stress and husbandry being off. Snakes do not “like” being handled, they tolerate it at best.


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I am going to be blunt here. I think your breeder is full of baloney. Adult BP's stress with frequent handling. I recommend handling adult, established BP's, 10-20 minutes 2-4X a week max and never on a feeding day or for two days after feeding.

I am not a fan of your breeder. Beans is thin, not established, and he/she is telling you handle daily for 30-45 minutes for what benefit? I believe this is counterproductive on all fronts and dangerous for Beans.

You are in no way shape or form out of the danger zone with him. Until he's eating regularly, putting on substantial weight, etc. you should LEAVE HIM ALONE!

I've said it and others have said it. We've all tried to be nice and soft about it. I am done with that because you are not listening. 3 consecutive meals without a refusal is the minimum for a healthy BP to become established and then you work up to more frequent handling. A young and potentially sick or malnourished BP, like Beans, needs more time and less interaction.

Someone needs to tell you Beans health and probably life is at risk.

We want Beans to have a happy and long life with you. That means throwing out short-term thinking and gratification and doing what's best for Beans.

Please listen to us. Beans is depending on it.

BP's who aren't hiding are often stressed. As mentioned in above posts, get husbandry perfect. Temps, humidity, hides, etc. That's all been addressed so I am not going to beat a dead horse on that.

Further, snakes do not have the capacity for "joy" or "excitement." They are also not cuddly animals like dogs who do enjoy human contact. Snakes are either content, hungry, defensive, or in pain/uncomfortable. That's about it. They have no frontal lobe. They don't really think, they don't have feelings per se, and they very much live in the moment. Please do not anthropomorphize Beans, or project your feelings on him.

What he needs is not cuddles or play time, but rest and food until he's much stronger.

I am so sorry to be so blunt and harsh here, but we want you to understand what is at stake. We also want this to be an enjoyable hobby long-term for you and be able to enjoy Beans for many years to come.

No one is mad at you, or angry with you, but we are worried about Beans.

Any questions or clarification needed on husbandry or what I have said, just ask.

UPDATE: I have not used this forum in months due to frustration, someone said I wasn't using the advice I was being given but I had been stating that I had, we found out that the problem was that the F/T does not work with him, we tried using everyone's recommendations and even ones from the breeder and a shop owner but nothing worked, the live rat we had gotten was also too big and Beans was afraid of it, now months later, Beans is over 300 grams (I'll weigh him today but at the vet they said 300 and something I don't remember) and he has not missed a meal. we have decided to stick to feeding him live for now! Beans is still living in a tub with a pet safe mesh top and we changed the aspen to coco-husk. after Beans's appointment at the vet (April 29th) the vet let us know that not only was he extremely behaved but also that he was very very healthy. we also got him a bigger water bowl, and a vine for him to crawl on. (I have found him numerous times sitting on it like a green-tree python) Beans still get's his attention and fun story, his vet appointment was on the day that he would be fed, he had been handled by the vet but when we got home, we waited a couple hours before giving him the rat but after we did he took it with-in a span of 30 seconds. the next week I decided to try something..... we held him on Wednesday, Wednesday is the day we use to give him a break so he get's used to his enclosure not being opened to get him attention. but this time he held him on Wednesday, and for not as long on Thursday and as I put him back in the enclosure I put the rat in as well, and in 13 seconds (that's right I counted) he had it in his jaws and was constricting it, the rat was kicking at him but I used my snake hook to hold down it's feet because it was kicking him harshly and I didn't want Beans to get hurt. Beans did not regurge this meal, he was all fine. that was weeks ago, anyways, Beans has a good feeding response and is very healthy, and still joins us on movie nights (he seems to prefer star wars ;)) NOTE: I still do not hold him until he poop's because of an incident where we gave him two days to digest and thennnn he pooped on me.


anyways, thank you to everyone who tried to help with the F/T

Glad to hear he's eating & gaining weight for you. Most of us realize how hard it is to get some snakes to take f/t prey; I hope you'll try again at some point in the future, for his safety, but for now it's best he gain weight & strength anyway. (It's been a while but I recall he was thin, & for a young snake, health takes precedence.) It's also fortunate that handling isn't bothering him prior to feeding him- some snakes it does, & others not so much, so when advising you here, all we can do is speculate- offer you possible explanations- because we're not actually seeing him & spending time with him as you are.

Thank you! I do plan to try F/T again in the future but whenever we would try both me and my father would get angry and end up getting in arguments over Beans and feeding him, so we both thought for now for our well being and Beans's that we would stick to live for now but I do plan on trying again in the future, we had heard of this brand of "sausages" that are made of mouse and other things and they're basically a replacement for F/T rats! they come with juices that you put on the sausages to make them smell like the food it's supposed to replace, so for ball pythons it would be this type of rat. we won't try yet because it's pretty expensive and we need to be sure we want to invest in that.



ALSO I NOTICED, I accidentally said WEEKS ago in my update, I meant that as like last week, lol

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

Thank you! I do plan to try F/T again in the future but whenever we would try both me and my father would get angry and end up getting in arguments over Beans and feeding him, so we both thought for now for our well being and Beans's that we would stick to live for now but I do plan on trying again in the future, we had heard of this brand of "sausages" that are made of mouse and other things and they're basically a replacement for F/T rats! they come with juices that you put on the sausages to make them smell like the food it's supposed to replace, so for ball pythons it would be this type of rat. we won't try yet because it's pretty expensive and we need to be sure we want to invest in that.



ALSO I NOTICED, I accidentally said WEEKS ago in my update, I meant that as like last week, lol

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I've heard that BPs are very hard to get on the man-made "sausages" for snakes- & even more difficult than just f/t or f/k, so it's best if you can try just one before you buy a bunch. ;)

I agree with all of the advice above. I personally have a different method of preparing feeders. I’m not saying mine is better or anything it’s just if you want to try something different. I place my frozen feeders in a plastic bag (not complete sealed) the I put it in the fridge for about 5-6 hours to thaw ( the time depends on the size of the pray I feed my young snake small mice). Then I heat up the mouse by putting it directly under the heat lamp for a few minutes. This always heats it up fast and works for me. Also three weeks really isn’t too big a deal. I remember when I first got my BP he didn’t eat for a month and I was super freaked out. Just last month the same BP just ended a four month feeding strike and he’s totally fine. Just weigh him every once and a while to make sure he’s not losing too much weight. But not for a while! Like said above let him settle in first and he’ll probably start eating.

I haven’t the patience to read through the whole thread ..

Have you heard of or tried the hairdryer method of feeding thawed ??

Works rather brilliantly ..
Here’s 4 of mine all constricting their mice all fed in the space of about 90 seconds ..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...58d0c15c20.jpg

I’ll send the method to the thread starter anyways


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I haven’t the patience to read through the whole thread ..

Have you heard of or tried the hairdryer method of feeding thawed ??

Works rather brilliantly ..
Here’s 4 of mine all constricting their mice all fed in the space of about 90 seconds ..https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...58d0c15c20.jpg

I’ll send the method to the thread starter anyways


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WOW those snakes are big and so is that set-up, it looks awesome! as for the hair dryer method, we had tried that one night with no luck, we're hoping he'll take it in the future, but for now we're feeding him rat-pups and watching every second to make sure it doesn't get ugly (the rat being the attacker) and he's been doing well. we would sit there for like 30 minutes trying to get him to take the frozen rat and he wouldn't take it, but when we put the live rat pup in there he takes it within 30 seconds. his record for how fast it is is 13 seconds, hopefully we'll beat the record but with a F/T....

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Originally Posted by Bo 17

I agree with all of the advice above. I personally have a different method of preparing feeders. I’m not saying mine is better or anything it’s just if you want to try something different. I place my frozen feeders in a plastic bag (not complete sealed) the I put it in the fridge for about 5-6 hours to thaw ( the time depends on the size of the pray I feed my young snake small mice). Then I heat up the mouse by putting it directly under the heat lamp for a few minutes. This always heats it up fast and works for me. Also three weeks really isn’t too big a deal. I remember when I first got my BP he didn’t eat for a month and I was super freaked out. Just last month the same BP just ended a four month feeding strike and he’s totally fine. Just weigh him every once and a while to make sure he’s not losing too much weight. But not for a while! Like said above let him settle in first and he’ll probably start eating.

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fun fact, he actually went 4 weeks, which is when we gave up because I was convinced that was too long, but after giving him over 3 live meals we tried some more F/T and he had absolutely no interest, also we tried that method you mentioned as well, no luck. like I said, we'll try again sometime.

also, something odd, you know how cat's and dogs will have that "one spot" that they love being touched or scratched or whatever. I think Beans developed a spot, sometimes I'll lightly pat him on the head and he'll just sit there in almost a "scoping" position, he won't move out of the way, he won't flatten down, he'll just let me do it, he also let's me pet his chin. sometimes he'll even move into the "my body is my pillow" formation afterwards, then he'll accept even more head pats and chin pets. could this just be enjoying it or something else?

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

WOW those snakes are big and so is that set-up, it looks awesome! as for the hair dryer method, we had tried that one night with no luck, we're hoping he'll take it in the future, but for now we're feeding him rat-pups and watching every second to make sure it doesn't get ugly (the rat being the attacker) and he's been doing well. we would sit there for like 30 minutes trying to get him to take the frozen rat and he wouldn't take it, but when we put the live rat pup in there he takes it within 30 seconds. his record for how fast it is is 13 seconds, hopefully we'll beat the record but with a F/T....

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Well the hairdryer method is far more than just giving the mouse /rat a quick blast with a hairdryer...

Works best in the dark / dim / low light so the heat pits kick-in , thawing in the snake room to get the snakes hungry with the rodent smell and only offering when the snake is well settled UNDER a hide , then feed at the hide entrance.


I see people saying they tried the hairdryer trick but the snake slithered away almost as though it was scared ... that happens because many of not most Royals need the security of a hide to feel confident enough to strike and constrict


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

also, something odd, you know how cat's and dogs will have that "one spot" that they love being touched or scratched or whatever. I think Beans developed a spot, sometimes I'll lightly pat him on the head and he'll just sit there in almost a "scoping" position, he won't move out of the way, he won't flatten down, he'll just let me do it, he also let's me pet his chin. sometimes he'll even move into the "my body is my pillow" formation afterwards, then he'll accept even more head pats and chin pets. could this just be enjoying it or something else?

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of course he'll sometimes be like "ew no don't touch me" but sometimes (most times) he'll jus sit there and let me do it, my cat does that sometimes too, where he'll let you do it but sometimes it's "ew no."

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

fun fact, he actually went 4 weeks, which is when we gave up because I was convinced that was too long, but after giving him over 3 live meals we tried some more F/T and he had absolutely no interest, also we tried that method you mentioned as well, no luck. like I said, we'll try again sometime.

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I don't know if it will work for you, but after thawing a rat I aim the hair dryer at the rat's head and point the dryer at the cage with the door cracked. My snake always sticks his head out of his hide and starts to S-pose, and that's when I offer the rat.

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Originally Posted by Trinityblood

I don't know if it will work for you, but after thawing a rat I aim the hair dryer at the rat's head and point the dryer at the cage with the door cracked. My snake always sticks his head out of his hide and starts to S-pose, and that's when I offer the rat.

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Yeah a quick blast of heated rodent in the viv can only help things :)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

also, something odd, you know how cat's and dogs will have that "one spot" that they love being touched or scratched or whatever. I think Beans developed a spot, sometimes I'll lightly pat him on the head and he'll just sit there in almost a "scoping" position, he won't move out of the way, he won't flatten down, he'll just let me do it, he also let's me pet his chin. sometimes he'll even move into the "my body is my pillow" formation afterwards, then he'll accept even more head pats and chin pets. could this just be enjoying it or something else?

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It's hard to say if Beans likes it or just doesn't hate it enough to move away, lol. But off-hand, I think most likely it relaxes him.

One of my 2 year old FL rat snakes (the really hyper & feisty one of the 3 sisters) discovered the joy of a warm pocket last night. I noticed she was out & about in her home, so I decided it was time for another visit with me. She's about 3 1/2' long now, & when I first pick her up, she thrashes some & tries to fly out of my hands. I have to be very patient with her- a light touch of control keeps her from nipping until she settles down. I have noticed for many years that many snakes get mellow when you do a slight swaying motion- maybe it relaxes them, maybe it's a distraction, who knows? but sitting in a hammock with them, or a rocker or swivel chair, helps- and that was my first intention last evening.

But once I calmed Mirikel down, I then showed her the deep hip pocket on my shirt: she slid in, & as her tail tip was about to disappear, out came her little face, looking at me, sort of puzzled. Once she relaxed more, I held my hand over her, for warmth felt by her thru the knit fabric, & my thumb to shade her eyes. I kept petting her very lightly thru the material, & she sat there happily for well over an hour, watching me & apparently comfortable. She only came out when I nudged her some, & hopefully she'll be learning to relax better, the more we do this. (BTW, her 2 sisters are very calm & easy to handle- she's the odd one.)

My point is: whatever works! ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's hard to say if Beans likes it or just doesn't hate it enough to move away, lol. But off-hand, I think most likely it relaxes him.

One of my 2 year old FL rat snakes (the really hyper & feisty one of the 3 sisters) discovered the joy of a warm pocket last night. I noticed she was out & about in her home, so I decided it was time for another visit with me. She's about 3 1/2' long now, & when I first pick her up, she thrashes some & tries to fly out of my hands. I have to be very patient with her- a light touch of control keeps her from nipping until she settles down. I have noticed for many years that many snakes get mellow when you do a slight swaying motion- maybe it relaxes them, maybe it's a distraction, who knows? but sitting in a hammock with them, or a rocker or swivel chair, helps- and that was my first intention last evening.

But once I calmed Mirikel down, I then showed her the deep hip pocket on my shirt: she slid in, & as her tail tip was about to disappear, out came her little face, looking at me, sort of puzzled. Once she relaxed more, I held my hand over her, for warmth felt by her thru the knit fabric, & my thumb to shade her eyes. I kept petting her very lightly thru the material, & she sat there happily for well over an hour, watching me & apparently comfortable. She only came out when I nudged her some, & hopefully she'll be learning to relax better, the more we do this. (BTW, her 2 sisters are very calm & easy to handle- she's the odd one.)

My point is: whatever works! ;)

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aw that's so cute! Beans prefers using long sleeves as hammocks, and he doesn't ever want to come out and I have to be very careful. Beans is such a puppy though, he's like a lap dog, (one time he escaped his snake bag while I was cleaning his enclosure, between me and him was a vent on my floor and smoothly blasted warm air that was around his enclosure temperature, instead of slithering near that and being on that thing, he slither past it and slithered onto my lap and curled up and looked up at me with his derpy puppy eyes) he has puppy eyes (as I just mentioned) and he a lazy boi

I'm coming in very late on this thread, but I just wanted to chime in and say that no healthy snake will allow itself to starve to death. They have very slow metabolisms, and they are not as active as snakes in the wild. When they reach adulthood and stop growing fast, they really don't need to eat as often as people think. Add in shedding, too. Sometimes they are entering a shed but we don't see it yet.

I have two BPs who are 3 and 5 years old and it's normal for them to eat only once a month . . . if that. The female went 5 months without eating during wintertime a couple of years ago .This year they both went 3 months.

After stressing out, trying all the tricks for heating them up perfectly, etc. I now just am patient. I have learned to watch for hunger cues like having their heads out of the hides all day long, being more alert to movements around the enclosures and moving when they see my hand in front of the enclosure, more active at night crawling all over the place, and then I wait a few days beyond those signs to offer them food frozen thawed, warmed in the sink). Sometimes they still don't take it. :rolleyes: I wait another week and try again, and usually they will take it that time. They are both healthy snakes of a healthy weight. Not too fat like you see a lot of them here, not too thin which would indicate poor health. They have good sheds, are active when removed and held, and I just enjoy them rather than stressing out over their eating. As I said, a healthy snake will not allow itself to starve.

I’m glad Beans is eating for you. If feeding live is working for you then stick with it. You’ll have to be really careful once you start feeding larger prey though. How much does a live rat pup go for these days? I totally agree with FollowTheSun. I’ve never seen a healthy animal starve itself to death. The hunger ALWAYS wins in the end end. If you don’t mind the extra costs, and trips to the pet store every week or two, then there’s no need to change anything. If you REALLY want your snake to eat f/t then don’t offer it anything else. I assure you it will eat eventually. It could take a few months, or even up to a year, but the snake will eat. With my stubborn carpets and kings it usually took about 3-4 months for them to fall in line. I’ve had BPs go 8 & 12 months without food. I just keep offering food every 2-4 weeks until the snake eats or starves. So far they’ve ALL chosen to eat. Best wishes with Mr. Beans

Hey Beans! I'm glad you got Beans to eat! Good luck for the future!