White-lipped python

What temps are you at now?

why do you “brain” the food? Does that mean cut it so the brains come out ?!?

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Originally Posted by Phillydubs

What temps are you at now?

why do you “brain” the food? Does that mean cut it so the brains come out ?!?

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I lowered the basking heat as you suggested to 89-90. Temps on hot side are 86 (ambient). The cool side is 82-83 right now, but they decrease over the course of the evening-night into the high-70s.

I figured it was worth a shot, I know I've heard mixed things about it. But basically, I put a small cut on the skull to to see if that extra scent would entice him to eat. Nothing excessive

I don't know how effective it is, maybe it varies by individual/species. I think some use this method for finicky eaters, or when transitioning over to different prey items



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He also just finished shedding. [emoji4] There's just that teeny piece of stuck shed- the rest came off clean (you can see it wrapped around his tree).https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e5e6ea5a51.jpg

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It's great that he had a good shed. He looks awesome in the new skin. You can get the little stuck piece off anytime. I'd thaw a feeder out for him today or tomorrow evening and let it sit on top of his enclosure for a while. See if he starts sniffing and moving towards it. Super heat it to about 100F with a hairdryer and serve it hot. Hopefully he's over his hunger strike and ready to eat. It's just a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

It's great that he had a good shed. He looks awesome in the new skin. You can get the little stuck piece off anytime. I'd thaw a feeder out for him today or tomorrow evening and let it sit on top of his enclosure for a while. See if he starts sniffing and moving towards it. Super heat it to about 100F with a hairdryer and serve it hot. Hopefully he's over his hunger strike and ready to eat. It's just a matter of time.

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Thawed a rat pup and a chick together in the room. Didn't take long before all of my other snakes were going nuts (my Budgett's frog included, but he's a dump truck). This snake didn't even budge from his hide to take a peek[emoji28]

I used the blow dryer to warm up both feeders and get their scents in the air. Tried offering, didn't seem to illicit a reaction, not even a defensive strike when I poked the feeder around a tad inside the hide. He wasn't having it

I just left the rat pup at the hide entrance and fed the chick off. I guess we'll see [emoji2368]

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Originally Posted by Awesomethepossum

He also just finished shedding. [emoji4] There's just that teeny piece of stuck shed- the rest came off clean (you can see it wrapped around his tree).https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e5e6ea5a51.jpg

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Looking superb !!

Took Jekyll out for a little bit this morning, and he was an angel. I rubbed that bit of stuck shed off as well. He's so shiny now!

He has definitely mellowed down tremendously over the course of a month, even despite very irregular handling. He has an inquisitive, calm demeanor now...not frantic and fear-aggressive like it was previously (thank god). While initially he doesn't want to sit still, he calms down quickly and settles himself.

Basically, his name doesnt suit him anymore [emoji23] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85a589481d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e26029c744.jpg

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Wow he's stunning!

So, Jekyll finally ate last night! I left a small assortment of f/t prey items (a rat pup, a small hamster and a quail chick) in his tub overnight. He tossed the hamster into his water dish and chose the quail [emoji4]



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Glad he ate for you, stunning

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Originally Posted by Awesomethepossum

I lowered the basking heat as you suggested to 89-90. Temps on hot side are 86 (ambient). The cool side is 82-83 right now, but they decrease over the course of the evening-night into the high-70s.

I figured it was worth a shot, I know I've heard mixed things about it. But basically, I put a small cut on the skull to to see if that extra scent would entice him to eat. Nothing excessive

I don't know how effective it is, maybe it varies by individual/species. I think some use this method for finicky eaters, or when transitioning over to different prey items



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Just wanted to chime in and say that in all my years in this hobby I literally heard of braining working ONE time and it was just recently.

I always suggest being consistent when offering. Feeding the same prey the snake was eating before coming to you in the same method is typically what gets them started.

Gorgeous WLP by the way. I've been casually looking for a CBB for a bit. I'm running out of room, but a WLP is definitely on the short list

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Originally Posted by Craiga 01453

Just wanted to chime in and say that in all my years in this hobby I literally heard of braining working ONE time and it was just recently.

I always suggest being consistent when offering. Feeding the same prey the snake was eating before coming to you in the same method is typically what gets them started.

Gorgeous WLP by the way. I've been casually looking for a CBB for a bit. I'm running out of room, but a WLP is definitely on the short list

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I personally didn't think braining would work, but it was worth a shot. And thank you!

I didn't get specific info in regards to his feeding. To be fair, I believe this is because he was likely freshly imported (Joe was kind enough to reach out to me personally as soon as he got WLPs in and were available for sale). I was told mice or rats. Live, f/t or p/k.

It's the first time I've ever gotten an imported animal. But I do typically ask for every bit of info available on the individual. I would have loved to get a CBB, but I hadn't seen any available (or they got nabbed fast) and I got impatient [emoji38]

He was a reasonable price. No mites or infections, healthy body weight, no scars, and good temperament (once he acclimated). I still want to get a fecal done for him, but all things considered, I'm pleased

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...edcd246e51.jpg

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, or if anyone knows the answer to this..but I've heard that Indonesia may be placing heavier restrictions on animal exports in the near future. Has anyone heard anything of this?

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In regards to that previous question, it was apparently an unverified rumor. Was just wondering if it would have affected WLP importations. Disregard [emoji28]...


Anyway, just a mini update- I waited a few days after his successful feeding earlier this week, and left Jekyll 2 x-small quail and 1 x-small hamster last night on top of his hide. I checked this morning, and the hamster was gone and he left the quail untouched.

Apparently, he prefers it when I leave the feeders on top of his hide. I've left quail and previously offered feeders directly in front of his hide without success. Not sure if they're typically that particular, but [emoji2368] whatever works.

The night after his first feeding, he did excrete some fecal matter, but it was a very minute amount and very loose. A friend who frequently buys imports suggested that it might not have been from his feeding with me, and to wait for his second poo, as that one may be like that because of the stress/being off food for a while.

I'm going to start offering him smaller prey items twice a week. I don't know how fast these guys grow when they're young, but as time goes by, I hope he becomes more confident about taking food.

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Update:

I finally got tagged today [emoji23]

I haven't held Jekyll in a couple of weeks and needed to take him out to spot clean. He was in a mood (already musking/peeing when I lifted the hide up) so I put my cat glove on. Got him out with the hook, then he went up past the arm covering...and grabbed my elbow.

(Took this picture right after he realized biting me wouldn't give the desired effect. So happy that I finally got a picture that fully captured his iridescence/colors!)

Other than that, he's been eating pretty well for me. Really likes quail and hamster, however I'm working on switching him over to rats now that he's put on some weight and feeds more consistently.

Also, his 4×2 enclosure from Herptastic came in, which I'm excited about. I'll need to install a RHP and assemble the cage, but I'll probably keep him in his current tub for a bit longer.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...99bf3083ac.jpg

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Those colors and that iridescence is insane! I'm glad he's doing well with you!

That’s a great shot.

Unbelievable coloring and the rainbow 🌈 is real.

Wow that's one stunning python that colour and iridescence is insane
So nice [emoji7][emoji7][emoji1786][emoji1786][emoji1786][emoji1786][emoji1786]

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Hey, not really much of an update but I wanted to see if I could get some advice.

Jekyll still hasn't been transitioning over from drop-fed hamsters (tried scenting rat pups/even rat pinks with no success) and he also hasn't eaten on the past 2 weeks. He's pale and wrinkly, so I believe he's going into shed, and I'm hoping this could explain his lack of appetite.

That in mind,, I'm still concerned about getting a fecal test done. To confirm nothing is slowing down his appetite, or possibly his growth.

I want to be able to just send a sample in for testing without the stress of taking him to the vet, but I haven't found a vet that does this. They want to see him in first, which I understand, for treatment purposes.

However, I've heard of WLPs dying from the stress of these experiences and I'm very concerned. But I've also heard that imports (CH or otherwise) can have high internal parasite loads, and I want to deal with this if thats the case.

Is the stress of a vet visit THAT bad for them? I know they're high-stress snakes. Does anyone have any recommendations for getting fecals tested without vet trips (through a company or whatnot) or would a visit not as bad as I've been told?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...19d6c352b5.jpg

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Just stunning [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]

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https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4


https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm

I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure.

I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."

I've heard from others that have done this, but not sure what they used (i.e. test kit).

I would think do this first and then a vet to safe stress, but it also depends how worried you are and how comfortable you are with your vet and their expertise with reptiles.

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Originally Posted by dakski

https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4


https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm

I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure.

I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."

I've heard from others that have done this, but not sure what they used (i.e. test kit).

I would think do this first and then a vet to safe stress, but it also depends how worried you are and how comfortable you are with your vet and their expertise with reptiles.

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Thank you for your help

I saw that first one and had considered it, still looking at second link. Not sure if it covers the more microscopic parasites (ex: flagellates, which I've heard these imports can be loaded with) .

He's eating drop fed, but without gusto. Has only taken small hamsters, one a week. Stool isn't consistent/familiar enough to me, for me to say "looks good/normal".

Ball python craps seem pretty straight-forward. Not sure if hampster makes their poo different...I know quail does...

IF it's a GI thing, I fear stress of vet visit could exacerbate things. Put him off food longer, etc. He isn't a bulky dude.

I HAVE Panacur and Flagyl (liquid form, measured for reptile use) and syringes and such but I don't want to fool around with it without knowing.

I'm going to look more at the second link. I'm hoping he sheds soon and gives me something to work with. Doubt he'd like a cloacal flush.

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My 2 cents: stress for an already-stressed import does matter. Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it. I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem
quite safe. They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".

If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?

Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.

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Originally Posted by wnateg

If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?

Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.

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These are 10g-ish hamsters. Hasn't taken the slightly larger ones for me. But yeah once a week.

I've tried scenting rat pinks and small rat pups with hamsters and/or quail (rinsing off rat smell, thawing with the quail/hamster, etc) and leaving both in for him to select from (inclusing the hamster and quail). If he takes, it's always the hamster. Little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:.

It's just that, he goes off feed at the immediate hint of an upcoming shed. Slight dimness in some patches, a small whistle during handling (when I initially take him out). Not hungry, then takes forever to shed.

Haven't seen him go blue, but it's been 2 weeks now since those initial signs. He's been very reclusive this entire time as well, even at night.

Temps still solid 88-90 and 82 on cool side, cooler at night. Humidity is 85-95 for shedding. His last shed was in June, and took 2 1/2 weeks without food. Very picky.

I'm hoping it's just the shed, but I wish he's take better, larger prey items, and with more enthusiasm (in general). Just doesn't seem like there's much progress, which is why I worry something else is going on (or I'm just overthinking it).

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

My 2 cents: stress for an already-stressed import does matter. Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it. I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem
quite safe. They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".

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Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam. [emoji852] Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me.

Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact

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I didn't want to bother him again today but I needed to get a weight on him. He's 174 grams. And also looks a lot brighter today. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b29178dd6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...61c99f4116.jpg

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Originally Posted by Awesomethepossum

Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam. [emoji852] Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me.

Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact

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It happens way too often, IMO- vets are often more heavy-handed than I like to see- they're determined to "get the job done" & don't have much time, but snakes are fragile when it comes to this kind of stress, & when you couple that with injections or other things they may see as necessary, I would just personally try to get him stronger first, & maybe you'll never even need the vet's help. If it means taking a guess on a fairly-safe dose of Panacur or Flagyl to get his appetite up & his GI tract functioning better, that's what I'd do. I find that "TLC" works best for snakes- they survive all sorts of things in the wild, but few things are more stressful than vet care for an imported snake.

I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time. I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding.

Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets. When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast. Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message. When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive.

Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order. Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like. You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference. Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed). True healing is about more than drugs. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time. I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding.

Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets. When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast. Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message. When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive.

Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order. Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like. You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference. Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed). True healing is about more than drugs. ;)

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I agree with what you've said. I'll do what I can from home, let him go through his shed (which will hopefully be soon). Then I'll go from there.

When he's in a "not today" mood he'll literally fling urate/pee everywhere just by me taking the lid off of his tub. I can't imagine how he'd handle a vet visit.

I understand that he's an import. Stress, and picky feeding can be an assumable risk. But if all husbandry parameters are correct and he shows limited progress after his shed, I have the tools to take some careful action, and see if I can stimulate his appetite. I just want to rule out parasites as a contributing factor here.

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He's a challenge for sure. While sometimes there's no avoiding vet care, at the wrong time or for the wrong snake, I think they can lose their will to live when they're on
that fine line & if the treatment is too aggressive. I hope you can get him on track...:gj: I'm pulling for ya!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's a challenge for sure. While sometimes there's no avoiding vet care, at the wrong time or for the wrong snake, I think they can lose their will to live when they're on
that fine line & if the treatment is too aggressive. I hope you can get him on track...:gj: I'm pulling for ya!

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Unfortunately, Jekyll passed away yesterday.

After this discussion I had him treated for the parasites, and consequential dehydration/anemia, as well. He also recieved a liquid carnivore diet. He received 3 minute, measured doses of the Panacur, spaced out to every 4 days. He was active after this, he became more himself (feisty), and some of his color came back. I also provided him with brief, warm (again measured) electrolyte soaks, which he seemed to relax into. He was filled out again, not wrinkly, and started to become active again at night.

However...just prior to this, he had begun excreting an almost custardly (in substance), lime green urate when he peed (he began dr I nuking on his own again) which quickly became more prominent, and and also became extremely vibrant.

I know the parasites were treated, but it seems that treatment came too late and the parasite load did irreversible damage to his organs. After the treatment stopped he was good for around 4-5 days, then he crashed overnight, and I found him yesterday.

I understand the risks that come with imports, but it still sucks. I'll be going for a CBH next time, just to be safe.

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*edit, not Panacur, Flagyl.

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Sorry to hear this [emoji22][emoji22]


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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Sorry to hear this [emoji22][emoji22]


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I appreciate the sentiments

It was rough. Snakes are so good at hiding a problem until it's too late. Importing is a gamble.

I've already spoken to a breeder, and I'll be getting in touch with them next year about getting a CBB. This'll give me more time to process through what happened and do more research. I'm still hooked on these guys, if not more than ever.

I need to thoroughly bleach his quarantine tub and everything inside (if not toss everything). But yeah, when that time comes and I bring home another one, I'll make a progression thread. I definitely learned a lot from this experience.

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bummer to hear about your critter. I'd strongly suggest listening to those podcasts I suggested a while back. They're a very high strung and advanced species in general, though CBB seem to be slightly more manageable from what I've gathered.

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

bummer to hear about your critter. I'd strongly suggest listening to those podcasts I suggested a while back. They're a very high strung and advanced species in general, though CBB seem to be slightly more manageable from what I've gathered.

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I listened to them for sure, and I thank you for sharing them..will definitely give myself a refresher as well. There was a lot of solid info.

I had gone over my husbandry and overall approach, both on here, as well as in a WLP group on Facebook. Everyone had said the same, that he quarantibe tub looked good, and that as an import he probably had an overload of flagellates, among other things, and the typical import stress, which likely exacerbated the parasite load and weakened his resilience. It got bad overnight, no exaggeration.

What stool he had was complete liquid, urates a vibrantly, almost neon green, with an unusual consistency. He was drinking, but still appeared severely dehydrated (horizontal wrinkling, body "puckering" became suddenly very severe) despite the humidity being at 90-95% (I boosted when I thought he was going into shed a few weeks back) and 2 fresh water bowls in the tank at all time. I gave him pedialyte and an electrolyte soak for 30 minutes, this also didn't seem to help. His feistiness and intensity were gone, it was sad to see.

In the time I had him, I didn't handle him regularly, maybe once a week (if that) simply to check his body condition, get a quick weight and spot clean. No more than 10-15 minutes at a time. He was kept hidden away from all noise, other animals, with a blanket over the top to provide more security. I only fed via drop feeding. Temps and humidity were solid.

I can't say for sure what happened, but signs point to internal damage from a heavy parasite load and import stress. It spiraled downward fast.

I'm hoping that getting a CBH will be a safer bet. I just feel it removes more variables-ones that are almost inevitable with an imported WLP. I know they're more of a reclusive "do not touch" species, and I fully respect that. I need to look more into this

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So sorry for your loss AP. :(

That's terrible. Unfortunately that's the reality with WC sometimes though. Not saying you did anything wrong, but generally, it does present more challenges and decisions on how to treat them. I think going with CBB will definitely be a better option.

Really sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences.