Ball python spazzing out during the day

Op, I think it's worth mentioning there have been incidents of loving owners literally loving their snake to death because they insisted on treating their ball python like a person and projecting mammal characteristics to them.

I'm reminded of this story a couple years ago;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kaijute...little-jor/amp

I'm afraid you are getting close to doing the same thing if you continue to do what you do. You have to start seeing Crowley for what he actually is, not through the shades of what you want him to be.

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Op, I think it's worth mentioning there have been incidents of loving owners literally loving their snake to death because they insisted on treating their ball python like a person and projecting mammal characteristics to them.

I'm reminded of this story a couple years ago;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kaijute...little-jor/amp

I'm afraid you are getting close to doing the same thing if you continue to do what you do. You have to start seeing Crowley for what he actually is, not through the shades of what you want him to be.

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Bingo!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Op, I think it's worth mentioning there have been incidents of loving owners literally loving their snake to death because they insisted on treating their ball python like a person and projecting mammal characteristics to them.

I'm reminded of this story a couple years ago;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kaijute...little-jor/amp

I'm afraid you are getting close to doing the same thing if you continue to do what you do. You have to start seeing Crowley for what he actually is, not through the shades of what you want him to be.

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Just went thru and read that story..... Wth?? That poor snake...... That was all kinds of messed up stuff there!

To the op, there is nothing wrong with the snake. It’s you that needs to change. Plz take our advice. I seriously couldn’t stop thinking about this all night. It’s giving me anxiety and it’s not even my snake!! I feel like this is the wrong kind of pet for u. U seem like u want something to cuddle with and it love u back. With a snake your just going to kill it.

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Op, I think it's worth mentioning there have been incidents of loving owners literally loving their snake to death because they insisted on treating their ball python like a person and projecting mammal characteristics to them.

I'm reminded of this story a couple years ago;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kaijute...little-jor/amp...

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Not to mention that our mouths are loaded with germs because of all the sugars in our diet, so letting a snake touch a human mouth could share something awful with them.

There really seems to be a emotional/mental issue here and the poor is caught in the middle

This is my last attempt to help. U need to change the carpet out for a better substrate, make sure ur warm side is at 90-91* and on a thermostat, make sure your humidity is around the 50-55* unless he is in blue. Next take out that bed thing and give him two good hides, one in the warm and one on the cool side.

Most important step!! Don’t touch him!! Not even once for a month. There is zero reason to touch him unless it’s a medical matter. Keep his water full and humidity and temps right. In a month try and feed him in his tank. U need to get rid of his second tank and the entire room u have dedicated for him to run around in.

In my option if u can’t do this and do it now then adopt him out. I’m sure someone is close enough to u to take care of him.

If u really care about this animal this needs to happen now!

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I had put Crowley back in his main enclosure at 9pm when he was done resting in his hide in his room. The bird goes to bed in a separate cage upstairs at 7pm. I went to bed at 10:30pm and Crowley seemed to be doing okay, he had gone in his hide with the bed in it with his neck and tail out. I got up at 2am to check on him and saw him in his bed with the hide sitting horizontally and angled, looking all confused. Poor thing, I necked him, fixed the hide and put him back in. I have been glancing over once in a while, he tried going in the hide and spazzed it off again at 2:20am so I put the 2 brown hides in place of the black plastic ones with the beds. I am currently waiting to see if he goes to sleep in one of those.

If that doesn't work I will put him in his room to see if he can get some sleep there. This is only a temporary solution as I will be moving his enclosure to his room later today as soon as possible, I need 2 guys to lift it as I am just a woman with a currently messed up back. I will probably have to wait till after 4pm to move him when both my husband and my dad are done work as they are probably going to be the ones moving the tank, it's very huge and very heavy. I am currently taking measurements and moving things around in his room to fit his enclosure while I wait to see if he can get some sleep in the brown hide.

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You "necked him? What exactly does this mean? How big is this enclosure that it takes two grown men to move? Sorry but going through this thread there is a LOT going on and something needs to be done quickly or this snake is going to be in bad shape..

I'm not sure if I'm going to make a dent here but I will try... Please, Please take the advice you have been given. You are treating this snake like an elderly man or woman in need of a nursing home.. Back and forth between bedrooms, tanks, bird rooms and lord knows where else.. I am going to put this really simple... Either you change the way you are doing things or you will kill that snake... Yes YOU will kill that snake... He has shown you everything a snake shows people when the aren't happy and you said he hasn't eaten in 3 months now... That is not surprising at all..

As much as you want to believe that this is an animal that shows affection like humans or dogs and cats you are just dead wrong.. I would imagine most experienced people in this group went through anthropomorphic handling tendencies when they first started keeping these type of animals but all of us have learned that what is best for us is most of the time not best for the animal. I would challenge you like others have to leave this snake alone. Stop caring for this snake with your emotions because they are forcing you into a bunch of bad decisions...

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Originally Posted by Moose84

You "necked him? What exactly does this mean? How big is this enclosure that it takes two grown men to move? Sorry but going through this thread there is a LOT going on and something needs to be done quickly or this snake is going to be in bad shape..

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It looks like she has two enclosures she swaps him back and fourth, and a whole room in her house that she lets him “play” in. And she is worried that he wouldn’t go to sleep last night, maybe someone should tell her that they are nocturnal

Crowley is doing much better now that his enclosure is in his room, I put him in and he went in his hide and is now getting some rest. I will leave him be for a while as that is a lot of change for my little guy. I'm pretty sure the issue was just the bird. Here's a picture of the new setup.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/LZK9fPJ.jpg

Leave him be for a minimum of 2 weeks. better for a month.

Just a question. How do u try and feed him? Live, frozen, rat, mouse, etc? I’m sure u would feel better once he starts eating. Just trying to get the facts so we can get a rat into his belly

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

It looks like she has two enclosures she swaps him back and fourth, and a whole room in her house that she lets him “play” in. And she is worried that he wouldn’t go to sleep last night, maybe someone should tell her that they are nocturnal

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Seriously at this point might as well laugh. Beats crying, and banging your head. She’s becoming extremely entertaining. The snake loved to death or abused like hell. I go with the second option.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

Crowley is doing much better now that his enclosure is in his room, I put him in and he went in his hide and is now getting some rest. I will leave him be for a while as that is a lot of change for my little guy. I'm pretty sure the issue was just the bird. Here's a picture of the new setup.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/LZK9fPJ.jpg

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Ok, this is for the best interest of the snake....

"I'm pretty sure the issue was just the bird"....you couldn't be more wrong. The bird, I'm sure, was a factor. But you need to open your eyes and accept that none of this would be happening if YOU did things differently.
YOU need to change or that snake will continue to suffer.

I don't know how after all this you can be oblivious to the fact that YOU need to learn all you can about snakes. YOU created these situations because YOU can't accept the fact that your snake is A SNAKE.

At this point I'm pretty sure this is all falling on deaf ears, but for the sake of the animal PLEASE LISTEN!! The problem isn't "just the bird" and the fact that that was your reply to all this really makes me think you just don't get it...or don't care.

Until you figure out that your pet is a snake and allow it to be a snake he's going to SUFFER.
Please learn about your pet. You can't possibly care for him properly if you continue to treat him like something he's not.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I'm pretty sure the issue was just the bird.

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The second post in this thread told you it was the bird. It took you five pages to finally move his cage away from the bird. Perhaps there are others things we are correct about as well.

It didn't take me long to move him at all, I moved him as soon as possible considering people work during the day. Crowley is doing just fine now. I like to take one step at a time to assess the situation. I don't have all the money in the world, to get Crowley a new hide for his size would cost me over $100 each so I like to see if he does okay once he's moved then if he's not, change other aspects. I also didn't want to stress him further by changing his whole enclosure along with the move all at once. I took the bed out of his hide and he's sleeping in there right now. I like to do things one at a time to see what the real problem is and go from there.

I never said I was trying to get him to sleep at night, I know he's nocturnal. If you actually go on my YouTube channel you'll see videos of him and he's always happy doing what he does. This stress thing is new and yes it was a mistake to have him in the same room with the bird. Someone even said I have 2 snakes out of nowhere, I only have Crowley. I've obviously listened to the advice given as I did do something about it and now my snake is fine. Where I live I have to order everything online so to just change everything overnight is impossible. I am leaving the snake alone to adjust to his new area. This thread became from helpful advice to everyone just attacking me in such a short amount of time like I can magically fix everything overnight.

Now if you guys are done attacking me and accusing me of things I've never done or said I'd like this thread to be closed.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

It didn't take me long to move him at all, I moved him as soon as possible considering people work during the day. Crowley is doing just fine now. I like to take one step at a time to assess the situation. I don't have all the money in the world, to get Crowley a new hide for his size would cost me over $100 each so I like to see if he does okay once he's moved then if he's not, change other aspects. I also didn't want to stress him further by changing his whole enclosure along with the move all at once. I took the bed out of his hide and he's sleeping in there right now. I like to do things one at a time to see what the real problem is and go from there.

I never said I was trying to get him to sleep at night, I know he's nocturnal. If you actually go on my YouTube channel you'll see videos of him and he's always happy doing what he does. This stress thing is new and yes it was a mistake to have him in the same room with the bird. Someone even said I have 2 snakes out of nowhere, I only have Crowley. I've obviously listened to the advice given as I did do something about it and now my snake is fine. Where I live I have to order everything online so to just change everything overnight is impossible. I am leaving the snake alone to adjust to his new area. This thread became from helpful advice to everyone just attacking me in such a short amount of time like I can magically fix everything overnight.

Now if you guys are done attacking me and accusing me of things I've never done or said I'd like this thread to be closed.

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You can't be serious??? How can you say he's "doing just fine now". How can you possibly know that?? The issue is rooted much deeper than his enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

It didn't take me long to move him at all, I moved him as soon as possible considering people work during the day. Crowley is doing just fine now. I like to take one step at a time to assess the situation. I don't have all the money in the world, to get Crowley a new hide for his size would cost me over $100 each so I like to see if he does okay once he's moved then if he's not, change other aspects. I also didn't want to stress him further by changing his whole enclosure along with the move all at once. I took the bed out of his hide and he's sleeping in there right now. I like to do things one at a time to see what the real problem is and go from there.

I never said I was trying to get him to sleep at night, I know he's nocturnal. If you actually go on my YouTube channel you'll see videos of him and he's always happy doing what he does. This stress thing is new and yes it was a mistake to have him in the same room with the bird. Someone even said I have 2 snakes out of nowhere, I only have Crowley. I've obviously listened to the advice given as I did do something about it and now my snake is fine. Where I live I have to order everything online so to just change everything overnight is impossible. I am leaving the snake alone to adjust to his new area. This thread became from helpful advice to everyone just attacking me in such a short amount of time like I can magically fix everything overnight.

Now if you guys are done attacking me and accusing me of things I've never done or said I'd like this thread to be closed.

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You asked for advice, received it, ignored it, and now want the thread closed because you feel like you are being attacked? Many of the people advising you have A LOT of experience with snakes and know what they are talking about. The reason that this thread is 7 pages long is because the community deeply cares about the well-being of snakes and only want to help you. Often times we will keep trying for the sake of the animal- even if the advice may fall on deaf ears.

How do you know that he is happy? He hasn't been eating- that is a clear sign that he is stressed (NOT happy). Please actually read the article that MissterDog linked about the ball python that died because it's owner anthropomorphized it and did not take proper care of it. Trust me, I think it would be neat if snakes were affectionate but they simply aren't. I adore snakes- but I also need affection and loyalty, which is why I will always have both snakes and dogs.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

If you actually go on my YouTube channel you'll see videos of him and he's always happy doing what he does
.

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You mean the videos like he's "excited" after a fresh shed but really he's just trying to get away from you because you constantly over stimulate him?

This is the main issue. I can't tell if you just don't understand or refuse to understand. Everyone is telling you you're anthropomorphising your snake to the point you can't even recognize basic stress signals unless it's blantantly obvious.

You care more for your idea of Crowley instead of what Crowley actually is. You're totally choosing your feelings over his well being because you can't give up on this fantasy that you have a super special, unique world's first snake that acts like a dog and want to prove to the entire world he has an unbreakable bond with you.

It was me that posted about a second snake - that was a mistake based on the name of another thread you had started about a plush ball python. I apologize for that.

Folks here are passionate. Sometimes it comes across as harsh. We are not attacking you. If you consider it an attack, it's because you're defensive. Defensiveness comes from being bullish, from not wanting to take advice being given or see yourself in a critical light. It's time to stop being defensive, time to take a look in the mirror and start making changes.

You don't want to stress him out, yet you were moving him around and holding him down and messing with everything before finally moving him to another room. He's already stressed out. Might as well fix it all NOW. But okay... maybe you took that advice to leave him alone so I'll drop that one. You also claim that this snake is your world, that you love him more than anything, yet driving 3.5 hours to a vet is more than you can do? Putting a vet bill on a credit card to make sure your animal is more than you can do?

And that comment about work... We all work. We all make time for what's important.

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Originally Posted by Valyndris

I don't have all the money in the world, to get Crowley a new hide for his size would cost me over $100 each

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Not bashing, hopefully some helpful advice..... a new hide for 100.00 is Nuts, I know your in Canada and I'm in the US but I use these

https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

Cheap plastic black boxes, with the offset entrance about $10.00 US each for the largest ones I have, I house 4 BP's, A Corn Snake And a Boa Constrictor In these

They all use them, 1 on the hot side, 1 on the cold size, There is no way a snake cares about a fancy hide, they just want a place to feel secure.

I'm sure you can find a version of these online some where in Canada.

And each time you change one thing, the snake has to adjust and reset, Changing Everything at one time and letting them adjust and reset is easier (my opinion)

than having to adjust each time one thing is changed, so doing all the changes at once my make it easier on your snake.

Last few posts are moving in a better direction but please remember to be kind - bashing threads get locked and some of the posts in this thread made me want to do just that. :(

the Op said to watch her vids so I hope this is ok to post but by what she says in this video yeah he was 100% stressed by being in this room with this bird. That’s all that’s in the room. So moving him was 100% the best thing to do!! Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPVjucWd2E

The hides would be fine WHEN YOU TAKE THE BEDS OUT OF THEM!


Good luck!

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Originally Posted by 303_enfield

The hides would be fine WHEN YOU TAKE THE BEDS OUT OF THEM!


Good luck!

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Why u yelling lol

Bird meets snake.

Its best to never do this either. If I remember correctly this is about when u said the python stopped eating. Doing this to a snake can really freak him out to where he won’t eat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AbHBpwrQAAM

Now that he is away from the bird I bet he will eat in a month after he has re- acclimated

I want to see this thread updated when Crowley eats his first rat!!

I found the thread about your snake: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ression-thread

You had him for six years an didn't think the bird was causing the new problem. I'll bet he'll be fine now. The only other thing I didn't like reading in the other thread was you try to feed him two rats at once. Smaller meals are fine just offer the smaller meal more often ( seven days instead of ten).

As for the snake having his own room an you having to open the door slowly. Put a sweep on the door (10 beaver bucks) or build a curb the snake can't climb over. That way the snake won't get hurt or escape.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by 303_enfield

I found the thread about your snake: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ression-thread

You had him for six years an didn't think the bird was causing the new problem. I'll bet he'll be fine now. The only other thing I didn't like reading in the other thread was you try to feed him two rats at once. Smaller meals are fine just offer the smaller meal more often ( seven days instead of ten).

As for the snake having his own room an you having to open the door slowly. Put a sweep on the door (10 beaver bucks) or build a curb the snake can't climb over. That way the snake won't get hurt or escape.

Good luck!

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I have to disagree with u a little, I don’t like the idea of a snake room. And maybe u might not know what this snake room is. I don’t mind a room just to house your snake enclosures in and u keep other pets out. But this was a room for him to hang out in sometimes for hours and it’s not good to leave any snake unattended ever, nor should they have more than one enclosure. The op is stepping in the right direction and hopefully keeps going that way, Crowley will be happy for every step that’s in his best interest

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

I have to disagree with u a little, I don’t like the idea of a snake room. And maybe u might not know what this snake room is. I don’t mind a room just to house your snake enclosures in and u keep other pets out. But this was a room for him to hang out in sometimes for hours and it’s not good to leave any snake unattended ever, nor should they have more than one enclosure. The op is stepping in the right direction and hopefully keeps going that way, Crowley will be happy for every step that’s in his best interest

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Hate to tell you this, but there's more than one way to enjoy our snakes. I no longer have a spare room to do this with, but I used to do something similar with some of my snakes (that were big enough they couldn't get into trouble, not with a hatchling Cal. king I had at the time, for example). I didn't go to the elaborate extent that Valyndris does with things to climb on, or "hides" specifically for the snakes, but I used to let a snake roam a safe room for a hour to several to get some exercise, often while I was in another room (door closed, obviously). These were not ball pythons...I didn't have BPs then (they came later), but the snakes I did this with seemed to enjoy their outings.

And I still have a real tree (a branchy part of one anyway) that I have a metal base for that my rat snakes like to climb in for a while -with supervision of course, since they can easily shimmy right down to the floor.

So you "don't like the idea of a snake room"? Fine, don't do that. But stop berating someone for not doing everything exactly as you do...let's try to have an open mind, eh?

Especially when there is no real reason to say it's wrong, other than you wanting to blame the snake's fast & current discomfort on that. One of the problems with many pet snakes these days is that they live out their lives in utter boredom in storage containers & get fat laying around. I don't happen to agree with what some of you all do either, but I don't disrespect you. We are mostly adults here & we should be able to discuss different methods without insults & ganging up on anyone who doesn't conform totally to the "herd" here. It's also NOT a crime to be anthropomorphic about one's pets... Let's focus on what actually does need improvement (like the snake not being near the bird) & not pick apart the other harmless choices that this or any other owner may make, just because it's not how YOU do things.

If there's one way to kill a forum, it's having everyone gang up on any keeper who dares defy the "prevailing opinion"...pretty soon, no one dares express their own opinion or share something that might even be BETTER than what you do...and pretty soon, there's no reason for anyone to join, since nothing ever changes...no mistakes but no growth either. We've all heard these complaints about Facebook groups (& many have experienced them personally), let's not turn into that here. Please...?

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

You mean the videos like he's "excited" after a fresh shed but really he's just trying to get away from you because you constantly over stimulate him?

This is the main issue. I can't tell if you just don't understand or refuse to understand. Everyone is telling you you're anthropomorphising your snake to the point you can't even recognize basic stress signals unless it's blantantly obvious.

You care more for your idea of Crowley instead of what Crowley actually is. You're totally choosing your feelings over his well being because you can't give up on this fantasy that you have a super special, unique world's first snake that acts like a dog and want to prove to the entire world he has an unbreakable bond with you.

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Yep, said this a while ago while the snake was having “problems”. We’re really NOT trying to be mean here. We’re trying to get the owner to realize they have a snake not a dog. The animal deserves respect for what it is and I don’t think it’s getting it. If you tried this crap with something less “wimpy” like a blood, the owner would have some battle scars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hate to tell you this, but there's more than one way to enjoy our snakes. I no longer have a spare room to do this with, but I used to do something similar with some of my snakes (that were big enough they couldn't get into trouble, not with a hatchling Cal. king I had at the time, for example). I didn't go to the elaborate extent that Valyndris does with things to climb on, or "hides" specifically for the snakes, but I used to let a snake roam a safe room for a hour to several to get some exercise, often while I was in another room (door closed, obviously). These were not ball pythons...I didn't have BPs then (they came later), but the snakes I did this with seemed to enjoy their outings.

And I still have a real tree (a branchy part of one anyway) that I have a metal base for that my rat snakes like to climb in for a while -with supervision of course, since they can easily shimmy right down to the floor.

So you "don't like the idea of a snake room"? Fine, don't do that. But stop berating someone for not doing everything exactly as you do...let's try to have an open mind, eh?

Especially when there is no real reason to say it's wrong, other than you wanting to blame the snake's fast & current discomfort on that. One of the problems with many pet snakes these days is that they live out their lives in utter boredom in storage containers & get fat laying around. I don't happen to agree with what some of you all do either, but I don't disrespect you. We are mostly adults here & we should be able to discuss different methods without insults & ganging up on anyone who doesn't conform totally to the "herd" here. It's also NOT a crime to be anthropomorphic about one's pets... Let's focus on what actually does need improvement (like the snake not being near the bird) & not pick apart the other harmless choices that this or any other owner may make, just because it's not how YOU do things.

If there's one way to kill a forum, it's having everyone gang up on any keeper who dares defy the "prevailing opinion"...pretty soon, no one dares express their own opinion or share something that might even be BETTER than what you do...and pretty soon, there's no reason for anyone to join, since nothing ever changes...no mistakes but no growth either. We've all heard these complaints about Facebook groups (& many have experienced them personally), let's not turn into that here. Please...?

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funny how the first sentence I said in that post was “ I have to disagree with U a little” but I guess when u read that it said “ I’m right all the time and no one should do anything different”

and no I don’t like the way the op had two different cages and a room that they would put the ball python in. I don’t ever recommend it. But I do like in the USA and if u wanted to do that then so be it.

I can have members on here pm you if u would like that when they were getting attacked I pm’ed them and told them we are just trying to help and not to get offended and stick around since this is a great place. Members that have posted in this exact thread. So maybe u should think twice before judging me.

And this is my opinion but I don’t think anyone that doesn’t have years of knowledge to try something like letting a snake go unattended in a room.

I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

And this is my opinion but I don’t think anyone that doesn’t have years of knowledge to try something like letting a snake go unattended in a room.

I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

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This

It gave be the jitters to think of a snake having free roam of a whole room !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I can see that you love your snake, but I agree with all the posts above about not using a snake room, and to simply see your snake as a snake.

This is particularly important, as I looked at your youtube channel and found you "massaging" your snake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn3RZdVmVBE

I'm a new snake owner myself. I don't claim to be an expert. I am sure you're treating your snake with good intentions, but I'm not sure that is your snake enjoying the massage.

I have noticed a lot of people interpreting their snake's actions as enjoyment. I personally know a guy (who's owned a snake far longer than I have) who fills his tub up with water and let's his snake swim around because he thinks she likes it. In reality the snake is probably terrified.

I'm not saying you are terrorizing your snake, but I wouldn't be so quick to see everything as a positive reaction.

Best of luck with Crowley, he is beautiful and you clearly care for him.

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

...I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

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So do I...I just want this to stay constructive & not insulting, & with some respect for other methods that may not be the real issue, even though you don't like them.

FYI, I've PM'd my share of members here, or they've PM'd me for advice, sometimes afraid to post on the forum knowing they'd be jumped on. But we all learn more when the discussion includes everyone...so long as there's no bashing. Peace...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So do I...I just want this to stay constructive & not insulting, & with some respect for other methods that may not be the real issue, even though you don't like them.

FYI, I've PM'd my share of members here, or they've PM'd me for advice, sometimes afraid to post on the forum knowing they'd be jumped on. But we all learn more when the discussion includes everyone...so long as there's no bashing. Peace...

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So u don’t think it’s an issue that she has two different tanks and a room that this snake has to spend time in? I don’t know about other specific snakes but I’m pretty sure one enclosure is better for this member. Her snake is acting up and not eating. If I’m wrong ok, but I’d like to learn where this advice is bad. I can’t see how spending the night in one tank, then part of the day in a different one, then let loose in a room for a few hours, then put back in the other tank isn’t stressful to the snake. I’m all ears to how wrong to say what I did. Because I thought that was helpful.

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

So u don’t think it’s an issue that she has two different tanks and a room that this snake has to spend time in? I don’t know about other specific snakes but I’m pretty sure one enclosure is better for this member. Her snake is acting up and not eating. If I’m wrong ok, but I’d like to learn where this advice is bad. I can’t see how spending the night in one tank, then part of the day in a different one, then let loose in a room for a few hours, then put back in the other tank isn’t stressful to the snake. I’m all ears to how wrong to say what I did. Because I thought that was helpful.

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That's not the post I was referring to (about bashing) & I PM'd you specifically about that post...;)

I also agree that any snake will feel more secure when they have only ONE enclosure to "call home"...I actually PM'd the OP about that a while back, so it wouldn't get lost in all the chaos. I was worried that she would stop responding or leave the forum after some rude things were posted under the guise of "meaning well" for the snake.

I'm not at all convinced that a pillow (aka "bed") inside a hide makes one bit of difference -beyond not allowing enough heat to rise from the substrate IF & when using UTH. If that hide was the "cool" side hide, I'm quite sure that the snake is completely used to the scent & feel of such a "bed" & that's also not an issue. The biggest problem with using any sort of pillow or pet bed like that in a snake enclosure is that it will trap germs & be very difficult to wash & sanitize effectively, becoming a potential health risk.

I can recall posts from other keepers whose snakes seem to enjoy (or had no choice about) using a towel or blanket as substrate. The other issue with using any sort of fabric in a snake cage comes when snakes are fed: their teeth easily catch on fabric nearby when swallowing their prey, & if the fabric item is swallowed, it's not digestible & becomes a life-threatening medical emergency (& a very pricey surgery, I might add). That risk could be minimized if the object was removed at feeding time, but for such easily distressed snakes as ball pythons, that very interruption would likely make them refuse dinner. (For other snakes that aren't so shy, you'll get bit by a hungry snake when you reach in for it, LOL!)

I think it helps to explain WHY we suggest the changes that we do- who enjoys being harshly criticized & told that "everything they're doing is wrong"? In the case of the pet bed, as I recall someone suggested that the fuzzy texture was probably making the snake panic & spaz out, when the snake has been using this for some time. :confusd:
Giving an obviously-false reason to change husbandry is not going to bring acceptance any better than insults. If we stick to giving good reasons for what we suggest, it might take a bit longer to post & in that time hopefully everyone can make sure their tone is actually helpful. ;) At least that's MY excuse for long posts...:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That's not the post I was referring to (about bashing) & I PM'd you specifically about that post...;)

I also agree that any snake will feel more secure when they have only ONE enclosure to "call home"...I actually PM'd the OP about that a while back, so it wouldn't get lost in all the chaos. I was worried that she would stop responding or leave the forum after some rude things were posted under the guise of "meaning well" for the snake.

I'm not at all convinced that a pillow (aka "bed") inside a hide makes one bit of difference -beyond not allowing enough heat to rise from the substrate IF & when using UTH. If that hide was the "cool" side hide, I'm quite sure that the snake is completely used to the scent & feel of such a "bed" & that's also not an issue. The biggest problem with using any sort of pillow or pet bed like that in a snake enclosure is that it will trap germs & be very difficult to wash & sanitize effectively, becoming a potential health risk.

I can recall posts from other keepers whose snakes seem to enjoy (or had no choice about) using a towel or blanket as substrate. The other issue with using any sort of fabric in a snake cage comes when snakes are fed: their teeth easily catch on fabric nearby when swallowing their prey, & if the fabric item is swallowed, it's not digestible & becomes a life-threatening medical emergency (& a very pricey surgery, I might add). That risk could be minimized if the object was removed at feeding time, but for such easily distressed snakes as ball pythons, that very interruption would likely make them refuse dinner. (For other snakes that aren't so shy, you'll get bit by a hungry snake when you reach in for it, LOL!)

I think it helps to explain WHY we suggest the changes that we do- who enjoys being harshly criticized & told that "everything they're doing is wrong"? In the case of the pet bed, as I recall someone suggested that the fuzzy texture was probably making the snake panic & spaz out, when the snake has been using this for some time. :confusd:
Giving an obviously-false reason to change husbandry is not going to bring acceptance any better than insults. If we stick to giving good reasons for what we suggest, it might take a bit longer to post & in that time hopefully everyone can make sure their tone is actually helpful. ;) At least that's MY excuse for long posts...:rofl:

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Well a little bit of enlightenment, in my own personal experience using tanks with paper towels. I have had quite a few snakes that weren’t crazy for the feel of moss being added to their hides/tanks. Just FYI. I too personally think some people sometimes are beyond help and have already decided, but to be so bold about the snake not liking the texture of an object? I seen snakes of all kinds react from everything from different substrate to hair. Just my two cents on a train already off the tracks. Peace ✌️

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Well a little bit of enlightenment, in my own personal experience using tanks with paper towels. I have had quite a few snakes that weren’t crazy for the feel of moss being added to their hides/tanks. Just FYI. I too personally think some people sometimes are beyond help and have already decided, but to be so bold about the snake not liking the texture of an object? I seen snakes of all kinds react from everything from different substrate to hair. Just my two cents on a train already off the tracks. Peace ✌️

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I agree, snakes may object to the texture or smell of stuff, for sure. I don't think what the OP was using was a recent change though I might be wrong about that, I'd have to re-read? If the snake had been using the same stuff (hide+) for a while, I only meant that it didn't seem like it would suddenly "spaz" over that now.

I thought I'd jump in here if nobody minds,

We really don't want people to feel they cannot share, or ask for advice, because they feel they will be attacked. :(

If there is a question, or opinion, you are worried about sharing, please be aware you can PM any member of staff for advice.

Like any other member we may not agree - but we will respond with respect ( like the vast majority of our regular members I have to say ).

I feel this doesn't really need to be said but I worry occasionally. :rolleyes: