Toref/Torefet: Varanus Tristis Orientalis/Freckled Tree Monitor

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Originally Posted by samsonact

hey dakski, i've seen so many post from you about a lot of different reptiles. what is in your full collection? :)

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I have 6 snakes and 7 Lizards.

2 Corn snakes, 2 Boas, 1 BP, 1 Carpet Python, 3 Leopard Geckos, 2 Rhacodactylus (1 "Chewie" and 1 "Leachie"), 1 BTS, and Toref, the Freckled Tree Monitor.

See below with descriptions and links to everyone in the collection and the "almost complete" reptile area. Waiting on Toref's tank and new tanks for the Rhacodactylus.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?260185-My-Collection-is-Complete-I-am-done-acquiring-reptiles

Update on Toref.

I had a scare yesterday.

I hadn't seen Toref in a few days and he hasn't been eating. I needed to clean his tank (weekly maintenance - not much waste in there since he hasn't been eating). I began taking things out; wood, hides, etc. NO TOREF! I figured he was under the paper, but didn't hear him and usually he's running around like mad at this point.

Oh no! Is he okay?

Once everything was out, I ruffled the paper, looked down, and his head was peaking out the side, but he was very calm. I freaked. Is he injured, sick, etc? I lifted the paper and panicked again, for a second. His head and upper body were turned 45 degrees or so from peaking out the paper at the corner, but his body was straight against the back wall of the tank. He looked terrible. Flimsy and his skin looked loose.

Turns out, they shed in pieces, like a bearded dragon. He shed his back about 10-14 days ago and now was shedding his sides and stomach.

HE'S FINE!

I guess he's not too hungry when shedding, which is common for Frank (BTS), all the geckos, etc.

He did freak a little when I went to pick him up, but not as bad as normal. Additionally, I learned my lesson and have a big net now. I hold it in front of the tank in case he tries to jet.

He let me (not exactly willingly) pick him up and put him in a moist hide while I cleaned his tank. No pooping on me, and no crazy movements. He was a little squirmy, but I would say it was the best "holding session" yet. I wouldn't say handling session, because we are not there yet. Contact is limited to transport at this size. However, positive steps.

Glad all was ok Dave and he didn't do a runner again

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Glad all was ok Dave and he didn't do a runner again

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Rich,

Did I mention the big net?

He is also chilling out a little it seems, but time will tell.

Will be easier when he’s full size. Won’t be able to lose him so easy. Also, supposed to be much calmer as adults, especially if you work with them.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Rich,

Did I mention the big net?

He is also chilling out a little it seems, but time will tell.

Will be easier when he’s full size. Won’t be able to lose him so easy. Also, supposed to be much calmer as adults, especially if you work with them.

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Definitely worth putting the effort in now he is young then, good luck Dave

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Glad he wasn’t mia or sick. It’s amazing how well they can hide with almost nothing in the cage. He was just helping you get a little cardio. :D

I guess this counts as his "terrible twos"...I can't wait to see what he has in store for you when he's a "teenager"! :rofl: So glad all is well! ;)

Toref has been super secretive lately and hiding a lot. He was shedding and that was part of it I assume, but I also added some hiding spots and he's using them.

I'd rather he feel secure and happy than be out all the time. It's not like I never see him, but he's being a little secretive of late.

GOOD NEWS THOUGH!

I put in a bunch of insect parts today (I'd been offering every other day the past 7-10 days as he was pecking at it or not eating at all). He ate the majority of them.

That makes me happy. Now I know, like Frank, and my old beardie, George (RIP), he gets a little grumpy in shed and tends not to eat. No problem. Now I know not to worry.

Toref is doing well. He's been very shy of late though. Today, I moved him down to the reptile area. He's still in his small tank for a while, but I wanted him in a quieter place. See if that helps him come out of his shell a little.

He was pretty calm when I picked him up and ran up my arm. We had a stand off first. Him puffing and me rubbing his tail and back leg. He did not run though, well then. He ran when I went to scoop him, but quickly calmed down when I did.

He smelled me a bit, so maybe he will begin to realize I am not a threat?

Also, I woke him up as I moved him before his lights went on. I figured he would calmer.

Pictures in this thread: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...62#post2684462

WOW! The move made all the difference. Quiet and calm down there. He let me walk up to the cage and put his food in. He then proceeded to gobble it down. Videos below as well as a few pictures.

https://vimeo.com/324816761


https://vimeo.com/324816702


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/3mwFN1q.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/HQXExXb.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/IBJAFVq.jpg

That’s good then dave, hopefully he will settle down now


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Toref is confusing me a bit. He's eating fine, but hides a lot. If I take him out to clean his cage (which is the only time I take him out - the breeder said not to handle much until he is older and bigger and has more confidence) he's all over the place. When I pick him up he's squirmy, but okay. He lets me gently touch him in the cage sometimes, and once I put him back, seems to realize I am not threat anymore and let me take pictures of him etc. in the tank. He will also eat in front of me happily after handling. It seems to stress him out so much though.

Anyway, I got some good shots of him the other day.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/ZtGc1X6.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/wyD1wka.jpg

Sorry to hear he is giving you fits but he sure is a beauty!

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Originally Posted by cletus

Sorry to hear he is giving you fits but he sure is a beauty!

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I have faith it will all be ok. I just like to report on both challenges and successes.

Is he supposed to tame down enough to handle when he grows up more, according to the breeder? Seems to me that right now he's doing pretty much as was
predicted...still too nervous for much interaction.

Katie helped me clean tanks yesterday because I have been under the weather and exhausted. I've been doing the bare minimum the past few days, but a bunch of tanks needed full cleanings. She really hasn't seen Toref much, and I needed to clean his tank, so I decided I'd show him to her.

I know where he's been hiding lately (in his vertical log at the bottom) and started taking things out of his tank. It's about 10X easier to get him out once most of the hiding spots, or all, are removed. He then runs around like a maniac for a minute (although it's getting less) and then lets me pick him up. He's also been getting better with my hand in the tank. Progress.

Anyway, I take everything else out and see hit tail poking out the bottom of the log. I touch it. Nothing. I touch it again. Nothing. Totally stiff!

Katie asks what's wrong and I say, "well, he's either dead or totally messing with me and freezing."

Jerk was frozen solid trying to trick me. I lifted the log and he stared at me motionless. I laughed. I put my hand near him and he did his normal puffing routine and then I left it there for a bit. He lets me touch his tail and back legs gently now.

He then ran like a maniac for 10-15 seconds, sufficiently freaked out Katie, who was already freaked out that he might have died - although I was really being facetious, and then let me pick him up and put him in a moist holding container as he is shedding again.

Bogertophis - They are known as a fast and darty species, even for a monitor (arboreal - think Carpet Python, and young, versus adult Boa), but as he gets bigger should chill some. Also with work he should chill more. At least at size, it will be easier to grab him and not lose him or scare him too much. The funny thing is, once out, and then put back, or put in a container, he's fine. It's like he knows, okay, I guess he isn't going to hurt me. I'll just be cool now.

My heart sank reading that Dave, thank goodness everything was ok in the end


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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

My heart sank reading that Dave, thank goodness everything was ok in the end


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Sorry Rich, and everyone else who has the same reaction. I was scared too! I try to impart some emotion in my posts, but I apologize if I went too far. He's a smart bugger.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Sorry Rich, and everyone else who has the same reaction. I was scared too! I try to impart some emotion in my posts, but I apologize if I went too far. He's a smart bugger.

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That's ok, I've done that so many times to my snakes when I've stroked them and they have moved even shook them and still not moved, my heart sinks then too, lol
Just glad all was well and he was just tricking you

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I have great news. Toref and I had our first good handling/bonding session today. It was in his tank. I had taken out all his logs to clean and he let me scoop him up and keep him on my hand for several minutes.

It appears he does not like being restrained, but I have to if he's going to jet! He used to jump off my arm and onto the floor! Now he seems pretty chill.

I let him smell me for a bit and he seemed to recognize that it was me and I wasn't a threat to him. He hissed a couple of times, but gave up when I wasn't phased.

Below are some pictures and a video.

I am so happy he's doing well and starting to chill.

https://vimeo.com/333121678


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/hijiwg4.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/uDxvA4u.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/t5tfjhy.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/68AvBUx.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/GOspj4V.jpg

We had another good handling session today. Toref is doing well. He even let me take him out of the tank and put him in his storage box. There was some hissing and mouth opening and posturing in the beginning. However, once picked up, he did great. He was calm and even let me rub his body and chin a bit.

I weighed him today for the first time and he is 20G!

He's been eating big meals and then not eating for a few days. He's still growing, but I want to offer less food more often from now on. See how that goes.

Here are some pictures of him as well as a (long - sorry) video of me holding him. Feel free to fast forward if you want to watch.

https://vimeo.com/334293682

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/y9Xwo6N.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/MNgtGLs.jpg

Glad you had another handling session dave, looking great

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he is really cute!!

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Glad you had another handling session dave, looking great

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Me too. He's really settling down. I am very pleased.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

he is really cute!!

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He really is! I cannot wait until he's bigger and I can handle him more and hand feed/tong feed him. He's getting braver, but he's not quite there yet.

He is such a cutie! So glad he’s improving with handling, and great news that he’s gained weight. I can only imagine that weigh ins are challenging. :D

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Originally Posted by Dianne

He is such a cutie! So glad he’s improving with handling, and great news that he’s gained weight. I can only imagine that weigh ins are challenging. :D

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He is really cute. He likes to hiss and me, and before I put the camera in, he was open mouth hissing and glaring. He's all bluff though. So, that's cute too!

Weigh ins are only a challenge for an "average" reptile keeper, not Super Dave!

I put him in his holding container, with the lid on, and weigh the whole thing - container and Toref. Then I take Toref out, put him back, and weigh the empty container. Then I subtract Container without Toref from container with Toref. BINGO!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/ehHN2An.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/bsJGLSy.jpg

Tore is doing great. He and I have been bonding a little more and although hit and miss, it's overall going well. When he's jumpy and I have to mildly restrain him to move him to his holding container, for example, he calms down a lot and quickly once he realizes I am not going to hurt him. He's learning my scent (I think) and only freaking out 1/3 times I go in there. The rest of the time, it's just mild spazzing :). Once in my hand though, 1/3 times he just chills there.

I am working with him 2-3 times a week and also showing my hand and then the food, when I can see him anyway. I think he's becoming less afraid and is eating better too. Lately he's pounding food almost daily. Before he was eating every 2-3 days, but a lot. I have been offering a little less and daily, but overall, he's eating much more.

I am optimistic that as he gains size and confidence, he will be handleable, but probably not by everyone. He will probably still be a sneaky and jumpy guy.

Overall, I am very happy with him, especially since he is calming down. He's a great and unique lizard.

Toref was a great sport and met the family after Katie and my wedding yesterday. My sister Sarah, from LA, wanted to meet my little "velociraptor." She said he's part raptor and part Meerkat.

He still flips a little when I first go in the tank, especially with new people around. However, once I pick him up, and let him spaz for 15 seconds in my hands while gently restraining him, he calms down and it clicks that I am not going to hurt him.

He spent about 5 minutes in my hand, out of the tank, and even let a few people pet him while being gently restrained.

The pictures below are him in my hand. I was NOT restraining him. My fingers were gently touching his back in case he got spooked and tried to jet. Otherwise, he was just resting in my hand. No pooping on me, no hysterics, and was super calm for a while. Also, when I put him back, he kept watching me and didn't run and hide right away. All good progress.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/sgoDZUJ.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/wO5JiHe.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/nkjU1Ki.jpg

He really is so cute, love the speckles on him, glad he behaved for everyone, and didn't mess all over you

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

He really is so cute, love the speckles on him, glad he behaved for everyone, and didn't mess all over you

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Yeah, he rocks. I am glad he behaved too. He only "messed" on me that one time, and I was really restraining him. He's getting so much better with the handling.

Toref and I had an eventful day, and not in a good way (although everything turned out okay in the end).

I went to clean his tank and he freaked more than usual, but not too uncommon. I got him in my hand, and he was resting on my hand in the tank. Next thing I know - BAM - ZAM - WOW - he's up my arm and on my neck. Quick little sucker. I reach up to grab him and he's in the air flying towards the big tanks in the reptile area. Then he ran under the garbage pail. I grabbed the net, lifted the garbage, but he was off to the other tanks and ran behind them!

At this point, I am totally freaking and screaming for Katie to come downstairs.

Luckily I kept him in sight and guided him back towards his tank and the back wall and away from the big basement room. However, I couldn't get the net back behind the tanks.

Katie comes down and he walks out towards the light and his tank like nothing happened and I grab him with the net and then with my hand.

Whole thing took 3 minutes, but scared me to death.

I couldn't deal with losing him. He is my responsibility.

I put him back and gave him some mouse parts with calcium and vitamins. He gobbled that down. Before that he was looking at me from inside the tank, like, "ha ha, I got you!"

Lesson learned. I cannot let me guard down with him, not at all.

Of note, he appears to no worse for the ware and now weights 23G.

Also, Katie was really scared too. However, she was very supportive and hopes, as I do, he calms down a bit as he grows and is handled more.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/8hgyW0q.jpg

That really was a "gotcha"! (Lizard 1: Dave 0) :rofl: As you said though, it ended well. I think he just wanted you to see how fast he is? "Look dad-"

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That really was a "gotcha"! (Lizard 1: Dave 0) :rofl: As you said though, it ended well. I think he just wanted you to see how fast he is? "Look dad-"

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You said it. Now I know to be careful with him, especially at this size.

I was very concerned, but luckily, for all of 3 minutes.

Thank you for the comments!

P.S. Not only is he fast, he's very fast while climbing. He made it up my arm, around my neck, down my arm, and leapt in about 3 seconds.

And yes - apparently he leaps!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by dakski

You said it. Now I know to be careful with him, especially at this size.

I was very concerned, but luckily, for all of 3 minutes.

Thank you for the comments!

P.S. Not only is he fast, he's very fast while climbing. He made it up my arm, around my neck, down my arm, and leapt in about 3 seconds.

And yes - apparently he leaps!!!!!!!!!!!

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One could even say he's "growing by leaps & bounds"...:D (ducks & runs for cover) but yeah, lizards can really deploy shock value. You got owned...:cool:

But maybe from his viewpoint, he wanted to make sure you didn't eat him? After all, you've been fattening him up pretty well, lol.

Think toref is keeping you on your toes a bit longer [emoji16]
Hopefully he will start to relax soon dave. still stunning tho

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Think toref is keeping you on your toes a bit longer [emoji16]
Hopefully he will start to relax soon dave. still stunning tho

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Yeah, agreed. I let my guard down. He was chilling in my hand. Then - ZAP! Gone. Until he's full grown I need to be a lot more careful. Having said that, he's very quick and gaining confidence in his abilities faster than he's gaining confidence in me.

Who knew tree monitors were highly skilled ninjas in disguise? I certainly didn't, you can't be blamed for not knowing either.

Well, Toref has yet to get away again, however, he did poop on me yesterday. Oh well, beats chasing him around the room.

Also of note, he's still pounding canned insects, but loves live wax worms. Happy to give him those as an occasional treat.

A few updates on Toref.

1. He almost got away again. However, I was pretty quick and got him back in his tank without him getting off my arm. He's a quick little bugger though. I have good reflexes, but little Spider-Lizard has better ones.

2. His boaphile 4X2X1.5' came today and the question is, do I move Toref or not move Toref now?

He's about 25G and I'd guess 16-18 inches long with his tail. He's starting to bulk up, but has a ways to go.

My concern in the little tank is there is no way to clean the tank without taking him out.

My concern in the big tank is he might get out. However, that tank has two 1.5' doors and I can open one or the other. It's what Jeff Ronne calls a coupe cage. Of course, the doors open out, so I am vulnerable and can't just open a little.

My theory with the big tank is I can get him in a hide on one side, clean the other side, etc. I don't have to remove him.

I've been reading a lot on Monitors and getting different views. However, the consensus seems to be let him get a little bigger and braver and more trusting and then try to handle more. Does that make sense to monitor people out there?

Any thoughts on the tank are welcome! I am actually quite anxious about this. Toref really is a challenge.

I don't suppose he'll go into a hide box if you put one in front of him, will he? I've not worked with these, & he seems to like sprinting better -or maybe just he
just likes to watch YOU sprinting, haha! ;) Anyway, just a thought...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I don't suppose he'll go into a hide box if you put one in front of him, will he? I've not worked with these, & he seems to like sprinting better -or maybe just he
just likes to watch YOU sprinting, haha! ;) Anyway, just a thought...

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I think he probably would. However, once he freaks - he's hard to read and to get to calm down.

I also got a rock cave hide - with a cave inside and small opening in the front so he feels really safe in addition to the other hides he's been using. That's an aside.

My friend Adam, at the reptile store I got Toref (through his breeder friend), said once he's in a hide, he will stay put, but if he's in the open, he could bolt, especially until he's more comfortable with me. He has a Kimberly Rock Monitor who he doesn't handle much and I've literally seen him catch him in mid air as that guy leaped from his tank. He is much bigger than tore is now and closer to Toref's full size, probably a little bigger.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I think he probably would. However, once he freaks - he's hard to read and to get to calm down.

I also got a rock cave hide - with a cave inside and small opening in the front so he feels really safe in addition to the other hides he's been using. That's an aside.

My friend Adam, at the reptile store I got Toref (through his breeder friend), said once he's in a hide, he will stay put, but if he's in the open, he could bolt, especially until he's more comfortable with me. He has a Kimberly Rock Monitor who he doesn't handle much and I've literally seen him catch him in mid air as that guy leaped from his tank. He is much bigger than tore is now and closer to Toref's full size, probably a little bigger.

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When I kept rattlesnakes, I made my own shift/hides out of lengths of black PVC drain pipe (various diameters, 8"- 4") for different size snakes. Very easy to work with,
& you can buy the lengths you want. I got the ventilated drain covers to match each diameter, & bolted one on one end, & put a handle on one for the other end (so my
fingers couldn't be reached by long fangs thru the vent holes...it's N/A for you anyway). The point is, snakes saw the dark cave as a safe escape & went in happily with
little stress; I still have them & even caught a wayward possum with one, he got in my garage & wouldn't leave, but he went right into the tube when I put it in front of
him. Wondering if a small black tube would work for Toref this way? Pretty cheap to try, anyway & what runs (or slides) in, easily slides back out at your convenience.

I moved Toref. The move was uneventful and he seems to be doing well. We will see how cleaning goes over time.

I will keep everyone in the loop.

Toref has not touched food and I haven't seen him moving around at all.

I imagine he's just adjusting and I didn't feed today after offering his favorites the past few days. I let him be.

I'll keep everyone posted, but think he needs some time.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Toref has not touched food and I haven't seen him moving around at all.

I imagine he's just adjusting and I didn't feed today after offering his favorites the past few days. I let him be.

I'll keep everyone posted, but think he needs some time.

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A lot more sensitive than I'd have expected from a monitor lizard. Poor fellow...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

A lot more sensitive than I'd have expected from a monitor lizard. Poor fellow...

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Doesn't surprise me. He is quite sensitive and secretive. Remember. He’s still small and a everything is a threat. Still have the other tank in case but I am optimistic.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...66#post2700866

I started the above thread on Toref because he hadn't eaten, or really even been seen, since I moved him to his new "life" tank.

However, he started eating yesterday (day 5) and ate more today and was exploring. I think he's back on track.

Took him long enough!!!!

Thanks goodness for that dave.
So glad you got him back eating again, hopefully he well settle down now and enjoy his new home

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Thanks goodness for that dave.
So glad you got him back eating again, hopefully he well settle down now and enjoy his new home

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"hopefully he well settle down now"

What are the odds? :).

Still worried about losing the poor guy!

Video of Toref running around and then eating.

https://vimeo.com/343598312

Sorry for the poor video quality. It's from the security cameras I have setup to observe the reptiles and then zoomed. I haven't figured out how to keep good quality yet. I'll work on it.

Will be nice when he fills out the tank some.