Brought home a severely underweight BP baby. Please help me get her back on track

I can remember hearing that our local Petco had told someone they could just feed a snake crickets too. :O I don't know if it was genuine ignorance,
or because they had an incentive to make a sale & just told the buyer what they wanted to hear. Many people say they object to feeding "cute little rodents"
but there's no excuse to mislead buyers to make a sale...it's horrible for the snakes & makes me want to scream.

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Originally Posted by Spoons

Him and his TWO co-workers came to the concensus that I needed crickets, or something cricket sized, because they "can't eat anything bigger than the distance between their eyes."

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yeah that is (or used to be) a rule for feeding insects to lizards
those poor employees, they probably don't even realize they are giving bad information

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Originally Posted by Sallysmom

Sunnieskies I got mine a month ago from Petco in Burbank and they said pinkies and pinkies only as it “cant be given anything bigger than its head”. The poor baby was so underweight is was scary to look at it at first

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Our protocol does not state pinkies anywhere. What a bunch of blank blanks!

She didn't eat :(

I thought for sure she would, because she had her head poking out of her hot hide when I got home from work for the first time since I brought her home. Of course when she saw movement she hid again. She's really shy. Room has been dark and quiet, all shades drawn, etc. Warmed the fuzzy really well and scented the tank (let it warm under the CHE for a few). Offered it... Absolutely no interest. When I moved it closer she shifted away and hid her face underneath her body. Didn't even look twice. I left it in her warm hide with her but I'm not too confident that she'll take it.

:(

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Originally Posted by Spoons

She didn't eat :(

I thought for sure she would, because she had her head poking out of her hot hide when I got home from work for the first time since I brought her home. Of course when she saw movement she hid again. She's really shy. Room has been dark and quiet, all shades drawn, etc. Warmed the fuzzy really well and scented the tank (let it warm under the CHE for a few). Offered it... Absolutely no interest. When I moved it closer she shifted away and hid her face underneath her body. Didn't even look twice. I left it in her warm hide with her but I'm not too confident that she'll take it.

:(

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Just today? For a shy snake, it's always better to offer late night, right before you go to bed...lights out & don't peek until morning.

Would it be that different of a response if it's night out? I mean, absolutely *no* interest whatsoever. In fact she seemed afraid of it. Could there be that big of a turnaround in a few hours? Happy to try again later if so, it's just been so dark in the room (cloudy too) it's almost as though it is evening already

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Originally Posted by Spoons

Would it be that different of a response if it's night out? I mean, absolutely *no* interest whatsoever. In fact she seemed afraid of it. Could there be that big of a turnaround in a few hours? Happy to try again later if so, it's just been so dark in the room (cloudy too) it's almost as though it is evening already

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You never know, it might be. Little things can tip the balance & she needs all the help she can get from you.

If all else fails try live, I have a snake that went on a fast and refused to eat for over half a year till I gave in and started feeding her live... she never did go back to frozen after that.

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

If all else fails try live, I have a snake that went on a fast and refused to eat for over half a year till I gave in and started feeding her live... she never did go back to frozen after that.

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I don't doubt you, but THIS snake cannot afford such a fast.

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Originally Posted by Spoons

Would it be that different of a response if it's night out? I mean, absolutely *no* interest whatsoever. In fact she seemed afraid of it. Could there be that big of a turnaround in a few hours? Happy to try again later if so, it's just been so dark in the room (cloudy too) it's almost as though it is evening already

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I kinda presumed that many of not most snakes are nocturnal and as such they will be programmed to come alive and eat in the evenings ...




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Very true. I guess maybe I'm too used to my adult, who eats like a garbage truck regardless of what I'm feeding him and when. I will try again tonight, I'm getting too overzealous :)

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Try and get a cheap hairdryer , plug it in next to the Viv.
Wait until evening Wait until it's settled under a hide .
Have the thawed mouse ready in tongs ... hot blast for 10 to 15 seconds then INSTANTLY dangle the mouse in front of the hide entrance ....they usually take it under first time but yours may take 6 or 7 attempts . If there is any interest shown , even a tongue flicker then that's your cue to keep trying ...


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Originally Posted by Spoons

Very true. I guess maybe I'm too used to my adult, who eats like a garbage truck regardless of what I'm feeding him and when. I will try again tonight, I'm getting too overzealous :)

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This one's not a cheap date, he needs romance & candlelight...;)

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Try and get a cheap hairdryer , plug it in next to the Viv.
Wait until evening Wait until it's settled under a hide .
Have the thawed mouse ready in tongs ... hot blast for 10 to 15 seconds then INSTANTLY dangle the mouse in front of the hide entrance ....they usually take it under first time but yours may take 6 or 7 attempts . If there is any interest shown , even a tongue flicker then that's your cue to keep trying ...


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I second the hairdryer trick and what's been said about feeding at night. Also make sure it's a small enough mouse since she's so tiny. Hopefully she'll go for it.

Idk if this is a common occurrence but my guy when he was also very underweight and distressed refused to even acknowledge a pinkie mouse so I got a small rat pup and tried again and he took it within 15 seconds
I used the hair dryer trick and tongs to dance the pup outside of his hide. And yeah I offered after the sunset

No luck with frozen overnight. Next step, I'll try a live fuzzy. Stubborn little snake.

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Still think it's too early to go to live feeding as it's gonna be tough going back ..

I'd at least try my hairdryer trick following the method carefully.


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I did, I picked one up yesterday and tried once it was dark. I even covered 3 sides of the tank on brown paper and turned on only the light in the adjacent room to see by. Tried 7-8 times, and then left it in the hide entryway over night

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Originally Posted by Spoons

I did, I picked one up yesterday and tried once it was dark. I even covered 3 sides of the tank on brown paper and turned on only the light in the adjacent room to see by. Tried 7-8 times, and then left it in the hide entryway over night

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Ok .. as long as you'd got it in front of his nose whilst it was still warm .
My concern is that some take too long and the mouse cools so quickly .

Was he in his hide or outside incidentally??


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Inside. I've not yet seen her outside of it. If I lift the hide to check on her she goes into panic mode and does everything she can to hide so I didn't think it was wise to lift the hide and offer like that, she's incredibly shy. But, she was curled fairly close to the opening and thus gave me an ok view and she didn't budge an inch when I offered.

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This is a complex one given her weight .... if you're lifting the hide its possible that's it's simply not settled in yet .

If it WASA a good weight I'd leave alone totally for seven days then try the hairdryer method ....


Oh well .. good luck ..



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I haven't lifted it since her second soak, I've restrained myself and left her tank 100% alone except to give her water. It is a tricky situation, given her weight. I'd be so happy if she just ate one thing.

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Originally Posted by Spoons

I did, I picked one up yesterday and tried once it was dark. I even covered 3 sides of the tank on brown paper and turned on only the light in the adjacent room to see by. Tried 7-8 times, and then left it in the hide entryway over night

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"Ungrateful snake!" :( sorry for your struggles, I sure know what it's like...hang in there.

It may not be conventional, but with several of our ball pythons we've had to remove the hide during feeding the first couple of times. I'm not saying this is necessarily a solution in your situation, as every snake is different, but we've had several that showed absolutely no interest in the rodent while in their hides so we took the hides away and they ate no problem. Now that everyone is eating like a champ it doesn't matter if they're in the hides or not. Most of the time they're out patrolling on feeding night anyway, lol.

It's just tricky because you don't want to overly stress her by offering too frequently, but at the same time she needs to eat. :(

I think if she wasn't so damn shy I might try that. She's so timid, even one one single time I saw her poking her nose out of her hide the second she saw me she was gone, and usually she's in the back of her hide with her face hidden when I peek in there. She will get better with time, but I'm not sure taking the hide away would work for her :)

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She ate! :D:D:D

I went to the reptile store near me to get a live fuzzy. The guy who worked there was a real know it all. I was trying to explain my situation (hey, another opinion couldn't hurt) and he cut me off every 5 words to tell me what I should be doing and talked down to me like I was 10. Asked if I was sure it wasn't just stuck shed, I showed him the picture of her I posted at the beginning of the thread and he goes, "She looks fine, that's just a little stuck shed." In that condescending tone. I didn't really ever even get to finish what I was saying because he tossed two live fuzzies in a bag and said "here, drop these on top of her and leave the room. She'll eat." and I didn't really want to keep talking to him much, so I took them and left. (One went to my adult Argus, since I didn't need two). Not that this is relevant, it was just really frustrating to be talked to like that.

I put it in the tank at night before I went to sleep. Lights off, making as little noise as possible. I did stay for a few seconds to watch, and the little thing crawled right into her hide and crawled over her, and she didn't react. I did get up to pee an hour and a half later and peeked and the poor fuzzy was still crawling around in there. But, when I woke up, it was gone - so I have to assume in the middle of the night when she was sure it was safe and quiet she decided to eat.

Now, if she can just keep that up, that would be great!

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Originally Posted by Spoons

She ate! :D:D:D

I went to the reptile store near me to get a live fuzzy. The guy who worked there was a real know it all. I was trying to explain my situation (hey, another opinion couldn't hurt) and he cut me off every 5 words to tell me what I should be doing and talked down to me like I was 10. Asked if I was sure it wasn't just stuck shed, I showed him the picture of her I posted at the beginning of the thread and he goes, "She looks fine, that's just a little stuck shed." In that condescending tone. I didn't really ever even get to finish what I was saying because he tossed two live fuzzies in a bag and said "here, drop these on top of her and leave the room. She'll eat." and I didn't really want to keep talking to him much, so I took them and left. (One went to my adult Argus, since I didn't need two). Not that this is relevant, it was just really frustrating to be talked to like that.

I put it in the tank at night before I went to sleep. Lights off, making as little noise as possible. I did stay for a few seconds to watch, and the little thing crawled right into her hide and crawled over her, and she didn't react. I did get up to pee an hour and a half later and peeked and the poor fuzzy was still crawling around in there. But, when I woke up, it was gone - so I have to assume in the middle of the night when she was sure it was safe and quiet she decided to eat.

Now, if she can just keep that up, that would be great!

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After a day or so I'd check in ever nook and cranny in the viv and under the substrate .. if you didn't actually see him eat it ..
Especially if you notice a pungent smell ...


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This is a good idea - I did do a peek under each hide, and didn't see it, and the substrate isn't thick enough for burrowing. It's a 10 gallon, few places to hide. That said, I didn't pick her up or look too hard under the hot hide because I didn't want to stress her out, so there's that small chance it might be under her or scuffled in with the aspen. I will definitely keep an eye out, I don't need a mouse going bad in there!

I usually listen for the "squeak"...for all you know, it might be curled up with the snake, as the warmth feels like it's mom. I would check.

Also, I disagree with the "know-it-all" guy...I wouldn't drop them on top of a shy snake. One thing you might try with a live fuzzy is: put a tip-proof
heavy bowl in the cage (flat bottom & at least 2" deep) and leave the fuzzy in the bowl. It will crawl around but not escape. Your hungry snake should
likely follow the scent & not be put off by a clueless mouse that seems to approach it. Snakes instinctively feel braver when they have the "upper hand"
and can look down upon prey wiggling past them...like from a ledge, only this "ledge" will be the edge of your bowl. The added bonus is that the mouse
will be easy to find & you'll know the answer without a cage search.

Another thing you could do is to set up exactly as above ***while the snake is IN the hide***- putting the bowl w/ fuzzy near the hide opening so you can
put an empty cardboard box over both the bowl & the hide w/ snake...this will help the mouse scent waft into the hide, and give more privacy overnight.
It's an easy check to just lift the box next morning to see in the fuzzy is still in the bowl or not, without invading your snake's actual hide.

I have used the fuzzy-in-a-bowl trick before with success, & I hope it works for you. (some pet stores do their own "version" by putting both snake and
live prey in a paper bag & closing the top overnight...but that won't work for all snakes, especially since you have to handle the snake first to do it, and
it's a little too close for comfort for some of them...it's similar to the guy dropping mice "on" the snake...either one is too much like the prey approaching
the snake, instead of the other way around, and as happens in nature.)

Ooh, good idea! I bet if it was the dead of night she would come out looking for it. I thought maybe she'd want to eat in her hide. And no, I certainly didn't drop it on her! I just smiled and nodded and thanked the guy for his advice since people like that don't take well to being told they might be wrong about stuff, especially since he seemed to have already made up his mind about me being clueless. I suppose there's no chance she wouldn't find it, too. I need to go find a few crocks as it is, since their water dishes evaporate too fast for my liking (both hers and the sand boa's). Trip to wal mart is in order.

I've been around this block a few times, can you tell? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

(some pet stores do their own "version" by putting both snake and
live prey in a paper bag & closing the top overnight...but that won't work for all snakes, especially since you have to handle the snake first to do it, and
it's a little too close for comfort for some of them...it's similar to the guy dropping mice "on" the snake...either one is too much like the prey approaching
the snake, instead of the other way around, and as happens in nature.)

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The only time I ever have this trick work is with flighty colubrid babies. I'll take one of those clear betta cups with the quarter sized holes in the lid, put a pinky in there with the little guy and let them slip back out through the lid when they're done.

The only reason it works is sometimes these little guys just get so worked up they hide everywhere when you try to show them the pinky. Once they have a minute to refocus they grab it and go no problems.

Ball pythons almost never act this way for me. So tricks like that aren't very likely to work.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

The only time I ever have this trick work is with flighty colubrid babies. I'll take one of those clear betta cups with the quarter sized holes in the lid, put a pinky in there with the little guy and let them slip back out through the lid when they're done.

The only reason it works is sometimes these little guys just get so worked up they hide everywhere when you try to show them the pinky. Once they have a minute to refocus they grab it and go no problems.

Ball pythons almost never act this way for me. So tricks like that aren't very likely to work.

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Yes, I agree...the bag or deli cup can work pretty well (also with f/t pinks) for the small flighty type snakes. The idea is similar but not the same as what I suggested
for the ball python: the "bowl ambush" does work for them. Either way, you're helping the snake to focus while feeling secure enough to take food.

Every nervous 'fussy' Royal I've encountered over the years would ONLY ever strike from within their hides and even then the food had to be real warm and took numerous attempts .


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I'm gonna have to keep the bowl trick in mind. Cause yeah, that would fit more with the ball python kind of mentality. I have a fussy girl that like to perch on top of her hide too so that might do well for her.

Like you said, dropping the mouse on them freaks them out quite a bit. The colubrids do a bit easier with that and realize food before the panic.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

I'm gonna have to keep the bowl trick in mind. Cause yeah, that would fit more with the ball python kind of mentality. I have a fussy girl that like to perch on top of her hide too so that might do well for her....

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I had a hatchling BP that had to perch on top of driftwood to pounce on a fuzzy crawling below it for the first feed. And I've used the bowl-trick for various snakes that
need to see some motion but also need to approach & watch it for a while from a "safe distance" first, without the clueless mouse walking right up to the snake & freaking
it out, & without the mouse crawling off to hide somewhere in the substrate. So yes, this is just another trick to keep in mind for any snake that may need "assertiveness
training". ;) It's also a good way to keep the snake from getting a mouth-full of substrate when they're still learning...I've had them do that & then they don't want the
mouse, lol.

Update :)

She is doing well! She came to me at 50 grams, and is now 68. She weighed 61 when the pet store got her in. (Of course she's grown longer and this is still skinny).

She has eaten two good meals of a mouse fuzzy with me, and had one good (if small) poop. This tells me get gut is working like it should be. I offered the last fuzzy like I did the first time since it was tried and true, and put it in at night and shut lights off and went to bed. Gone in the morning.

Today is the first day I've taken her out really since her initial getting settled. She balled up, but after a couple minutes actually uncurled to do a little exploring. Not the panicked 'I need to hide' exploring either! I didn't keep her out long. I just wanted an updated weight and some updated pics, and she's back in her tank.

Here are some pics. She is obviously still underweight by quite a bit. I tried to get a few pics that show the wrinkles on her neck and head. Her whole spine is still visible. But, there is slow improvement. I think we are on the right track. :) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5a43ede4b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e266f64627.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5e4e27d885.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6a29468599.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6f9a3a2460.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe45065601.jpg

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Poor crinkly snake...but heading in the right direction at least. :gj: She's so lucky to have a patient owner who cares about her.

Sounds like good things are happening. Your doing a fantastic job and that is one lucky snake. Weight gain is a positive for sure. Look forward to more good news in the future. :gj:

I'd just leave her alone ... given she just ate a few days ago and that she's so underweight/ dehydrated? / having injections every three days ? ...

I just don't think you're helping at all by disturbing/ handling and weighing ..


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd just leave her alone ... given she just ate a few days ago and that she's so underweight/ dehydrated? / having injections every three days ? ...

I just don't think you're helping at all by disturbing/ handling and weighing ..


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No, the injections are for my sand boa. I've left her (the BP) untouched pretty much since her last soak. Given that my sand boa baby showed her RI within two weeks of bringing her home, I figure it us prudent to take five minutes and give her a once over to make sure she isn't following suit - and a quick weigh and a few pics while I'm at it. Don't want to go through the effort only to find her dead of something I could have caught if I just looked once a week.

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Okay, i apologise this is dumb but I'm excited for it and not many people I know in real life care to hear. But she struck at her mouse immediately yesterday! Third feeding, I set the live fuzzy in there per usual around 7pm. This time she whipped around and struck immediately, instead of her usual of waiting til God knows whenever she decided it was dafe to eat!

Baby steps in the right direction :D

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That’s cool, my two snakes eat immediately. And strike very quickly as yours has. I’m assuming it’s as good a sign of getting/being healthy as any. :gj:

Good Job tackling a suffering animal.

Sounds like the recovery is on the right track for this little baby now that she is eating regularly.

The once-weekly once over and weight check today. She still looks good, sounds good, and is gaining weight. Her last meal was a frozen/thaw - the pet store sent me home with an adult mouse for some reason (In a box so I didn't notice til I was home) so I thawed one out to try, warmed it with a hair dryer and she took it! I think she's figuring out she likes food, and is hungry. That morning she had her little nose poking out of her hut like she was waiting for food.

She's looking much better. Back in her tank to relax til she eats tomorrow. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d5e61c2662.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cfe14708df.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4127b46971.jpg

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She still looks SO crinkly...it feels like forever to get weight on a snake like this but that's a very good sign (wanting food & taking f/t). :gj:

You might just be waiting to see if her next shed goes ok, but if not, you may want to consider helping her with that stuck shed. A few runs though a warm, damp towel. Letting her go in a pillow case with a wet towel inside. A good soak. Shed-Ease also works wonders. Best of luck. Good to hear she's gaining weight and taking F/T. :)

I'd be soaking her too (etc.) as suggested by WhompingWillow. Does she have a really moist humid hide with moss?

No humid hide, but every other day I've been misting to getting humidity up. Once she started eating I stopped bothering her as much as possible because she's so scared and shy I don't want her to regurgitate. I figured once I saw her go blue I would stop feeding (none of my other ones will eat when they are in shed anyways) and start soaking every other day to make sure it's a good shed. It's been hovering around 50% the days I don't mist.

Could someone point out where the stuck shed is? I see a little on her head but she's so insanely headshy I haven't tried doing anything about it. Her skin is loose and because of her weight, her scales almost seem loose (they stick out like snake bedhead) instead of sleek against her body and they tend to catch on everything when I have her out, and her skin is so soft and delicate it folds up on itself. Could that be causing the appearance of stuck shed? Or am I just that bad at spotting it? I thought I got most of it when I brought her home but I may not have! I thought a good shed would help the condition her skin is in.

I could add a humid hide but I almost guarantee she wouldn't use it. She hasn't left her hot hide since she was put in the tank - not to eat, poop, nothing save for to drink, which is right outside the door. All the bedding in the rest of the tank is still fluffy and not tamped down like it is where she's crawled over. I believe at the moment she values heat and security over everything else.

I wish you guys could feel her skin. It's hard to describe. Tissue paper soft, loose, I'm actually scared to pick her up, it feels like it'll tear of it's pulled. She is drinking and humidity is good. Her crinkliness has gone down quite a bit as she's put weight on and doesn't have so much extra skin. I'm actually kind of excited for her to shed, I think it will be a big difference. Before she was like 60% baggy skin, 40% snake. It's closer to 40/60 now I think : )

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From the photos you posted, it honestly looks like the entire top half of her body is all stuck shed with the exception of about a centimeter below her head. If you look at her belly and compare it to her top half, you should be able to see the line of stuck shed. That's why she looks so crinkly. To make a humid hide, you could just add damp moss to her existing hot hide. I just worry that with existing stuck shed to that degree, her next shed isn't going to be that great and it will just compound the problem. I'm going to post a few photos in a second of Norm when we first got him so you can see what his stuck shed looked like.