Ganja got new digs

And on the plus side, if the snake pulls through, you will probably have the tamest GTP around lol. Or a GTP that absolutely hates everyone haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

And on the plus side, if the snake pulls through, you will probably have the tamest GTP around lol. Or a GTP that absolutely hates everyone haha.

---

What's the word that means worse than hate? Because that is what she is right now. Having to yank her off her perch every two weeks to molest her private parts and shove them up her then take her to a vet in a cramped tub for hours at a time has not improved her mood in the slightest

If she does pull through and makes it I most likely will rarely if ever handle her as a way to say sorry for all the poking and prodding

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

What's the word that means worse than hate? Because that is what she is right now. Having to yank her off her perch every two weeks to molest her private parts and shove them up her then take her to a vet in a cramped tub for hours at a time has not improved her mood in the slightest

If she does pull through and makes it I most likely will rarely if ever handle her as a way to say sorry for all the poking and prodding

---

Lol makes sense. I know i would be pretty pissed off too if someone yanked me off the couch every couple weeks, molested my genitalia/bum, put a stitch in the bum and then put me back on my couch.....not to mention feeding me very sparingly...yeah I would for sure be pissed lol.

So, any new news? Is the little man doing better?

SHE POOPED AND DID NOT PROLAPSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or she prolapsed but was able to self retract. Either way I don't care if this is a good sign or a fluke. This roller coaster ride is still in full effect and she is still driving me crazy but at least she pooped one time without spilling her guts.

One day at a time...


Edit: I know I am little sporadic on updates but it takes over 2 weeks to see if she will prolapse and so it takes forever for progress to show.

So to show some images of what this prolapse has looked like and what she has been going through for months, I feel it important to share the images I have taken over the past month.

Now just to reiterate, prolapses in reptiles is not one thing or the other. It is caused by either inflammation, infection, or damage to the internal structures. It can either be the cloaca or in males the hemipenes. It can also be caused by complication of eggs or live bearing in females.

The common misconception that it is from dehydration and prey size is a lack of understanding of the root problems. Dehydration and prey size can be complication of underlying causes but neither are the sole cause of snake prolapses. the important thing to remember with prolapses it to be under veterinarian care. You can learn to reinsert a prolapse but even then a vet needs to exam the snake for causes an possible injury.

Anyway enough lecture on to the pictures! Warning these show exposed butt!


This first one was taken a month ago or so after we got the second external stitch put in the help retain the intestinal tract better. She seemed to prolapse from the stitch and not from fecal matter

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Uw2FQgc.jpg


These next two happened 2 weeks later after her passing feces

This was within 30 minutes of passing (I walked by saw a fat butt and thought "oh no here we go!")

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/udbTJgn.jpg


This was after 45 minutes in a water bath tub. I do this to help reduce swelling and to wait to see if she retracts on her own. Not sure if you can tell but she did retract 50% or so. I managed to give her a massage of the ventral area and she retracted on her own.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/9yRRk6w.jpg


Now she did also re-prolpase slightly the next day (no pics) after passing more feces. We got it back in with minimal effort and no signs of inflammation.

It was late last night that she passed the latest feces but we never saw a sign of prolapse (hanging tail, loose coiling, and blood/mucous stains on perch). Yes, there will almost always be bleeding or mucous from a prolapse. So long as the tissue is intact that is actually expected.


So there you have it, the latest progress of not giving up on a chronic prolapse victim. The coming weeks will tell if we are winning this battle or if expensive surgery is in the future.

it sounds like you've torn the internet apart trying to learn as much as you can about what lil Ganja is going through. those photos looks so scary [emoji852] but thank you for sharing them.

congrats on the milestone!!! progress is progress. i know it's long from over, but be sure to enjoy the moment. [emoji3]

That is fantastic !!!

Great news. She is such a beautiful little thing.

I'm crossing fingers and toes that she continues to improve :)

Well tomorrow we are taking ganja in for a cloacapexy. She has prolapsed again and it has got to the point where it needs surgery. Obviously my vet has never done surgery on a green tree python but he does have a ton of first hand experience on reptiles, snakes, birds, and mammals.

I have confidence he can complete the surgery but there is always a chance on snakes that anesthesia can be fatal so this is a risky surgery especially on a smaller reptile. I will update tomorrow if she pulls through or does not make it. Either way we are coming to an end of this very educational experience.

A cloacapexy is a surgical technique of permanently stitching the cloaca to the abdominal wall / rib cage. It is the standard procedure for chronic prolapse in birds, amphibians, and reptiles. The procedure has a high success rate but with Ganja being so small and having so long of a chronic condition this is nowhere near 100% but it is far worth the cost and risk for an otherwise healthy snake. The majority of the cost is going toward anesthesia and post surgical care. The actual operating time is less than 30 minutes but the recovery time is 2 hours or more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Well tomorrow we are taking ganja in for a cloacapexy. She has prolapsed again and it has got to the point where it needs surgery. Obviously my vet has never done surgery on a green tree python but he does have a ton of first hand experience on reptiles, snakes, birds, and mammals.

I have confidence he can complete the surgery but there is always a chance on snakes that anesthesia can be fatal so this is a risky surgery especially on a smaller reptile. I will update tomorrow if she pulls through or does not make it. Either way we are coming to an end of this very educational experience.

A cloacapexy is a surgical technique of permanently stitching the cloaca to the abdominal wall / rib cage. It is the standard procedure for chronic prolapse in birds, amphibians, and reptiles. The procedure has a high success rate but with Ganja being so small and having so long of a chronic condition this is nowhere near 100% but it is far worth the cost and risk for an otherwise healthy snake. The majority of the cost is going toward anesthesia and post surgical care. The actual operating time is less than 30 minutes but the recovery time is 2 hours or more.

---

God speed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck lil' snake, we're rooting for you!

Good luck and hope little Ganja makes a full recovery.

You guys and little Ganja are in my thoughts !!

I'm crossing fingers and toes. After all you went through, she just has to make it!! :please:

Just dropped her off and now the waiting begins. Will update if she makes it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Just dropped her off and now the waiting begins. Will update if she makes it.

---

Our thoughts and prayers are with you guy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sending positive vibes!!! i'll be thinking about you guys all day!

Sitting here waiting is enough to drive me crazy. So far the surgery went well but we still have recovery to go through.

[emoji120]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Very very carefully. You first get some preparation H and some KY jelly (not the liquid the thick jelly and not off brand garbage). You get the snake on wet paper towel and apply preparation h for at least an hour to get he swelling down. Then you grab the snake's head because it is going to be ANGRY and you get either a sexing probe or qtips lubed up really well with KY and you gently find the end of the swollen cloaca and you push it gently but firmly in until you reach the right depth (can be over 3 inches) and you then massage toward the head while carefully removing the tool. It can take a few times (last time it took 3 attempts and she reprolapsed 2 hours later due to pushing out urates again but it went in immediately and did not come out again) and take a great deal of patience and care.

I do not recommend anyone reinserts a prolapse without training by a qualified vet. I only have done it because it was 8 pm on a sunday and could not see a vet and I asked to be trained.

It is also important to get the snake immediately in a shallow water bath to prevent dehydration of the tissue and to keep it observed for it to reinsert on its own. Thankfully my baby has had minor prolapses and they have gone halfway down on their own. The reinserting has not been a big ordeal so I have not had to deal with a complete inversion which is a nightmare and something I hope to never deal with.

We are most likely going to put in a permanent stitch to help the tissue strengthen and prevent relapses. This is now her 3rd prolapse so the possibility of it happening are high. She is still in good health and is very active. I'm also stressed because I have to force her to not eat and that means weight loss. It's critical however so I have to keep a close eye to make sure she doesn't have any sudden issues and that the prolapses have not caused tissue damage or sepsis.

The next 2 weeks are going to be oh so much fun :(

Oh as far as small branches go, she has tons now and the vines I put in she absolutely adores and uses them. Even if she doesn't pull through this, I know she is enjoying her enclosure at least.

---

Just saw this. My heart goes out to you both. I cant even fathom going through all that but would if necessary in a heartbeat. Keep us posted.

Ganja has recovered! Will write more when I get home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Ganja has recovered! Will write more when I get home.

---

:w00t::grouphug::pinkele:

So glad everything went well. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for news.

I had a male mojave bp that had a prolapsed hemipene that was not addressed properly from the breeder before he became my pet. I had to have two surgeries done on him. The surgeries prolonged his life for 5 years but in the end he passed away from sepsis.

So I know far too well what you are going thru.

Praying she continues to do well.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Ganja has recovered! Will write more when I get home.

---

Happy to hear. Hope she makes a quick recovery.

So now we get to give her injections for pain relief and antibiotics to avoid infection. Not something I am overly looking forward to doing thanks to those dagger teeth but it has to be done.

She recovered from anesthesia extremely well and the surgery went quick and Dr Pope was happy with her not having any damage or complications from chronic prolapse. Thankfully I had caught it each time before it got bad. She hates with a vengeance being confined to the ground and will fight and push to the point of self harm to perch so she is now coiled in her favorite spot high as a kite on pain killers :D

I have to give her a pain shot for the next 5 days every day and antibiotics every 3 days for a total of 4 shots. We go back in 3 weeks for a post op exam and to evaluate if the incision site stitches can come out. She is a stubborn strong little snake so I have hope she will come through.

Thankfully we never had to deal with infection or sepsis but the antibiotic series should help rule out anything that might happen while she is stressed.

This is an unorthodox surgery not because of any low success rate but due to the fact most keepers and breeders simply opt for euthanasia over surgery. Many cases also deal with necrosis of tissue due to not finding or taking the snake to a vet soon enough which leads to death from infection and stress. I am so glad we caught each time she prolapsed quickly but now I am hopeful we can stop having to watch her so closely and loose sleep over this.

Hopefully this is the end of her condition and the beginning of a quiet life, even if it is not for long, at least she will no longer have to go through this.


Thank you everyone for the well wishes and prays, It was very much appreciated.

Fingers crossed that’s done the job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fingers crossed! She’s such a pretty little baby!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Well she made it very well through the night and is just as ornery as every. First series of shots is done and let me tell you that never gets easier! On a subadult GTP it is the opposite of cooperative. At least I know she is fully responsive and just as squirmy s before the surgery.

Trying to avoid scales on something with scales the size of grains of sand is a challenge!

You are doing great. You have my deepest respect for keep on going to do all you can for that little one. All with no guarantees of a good outcome. Most people would have given up a long time ago.

I truly hope the little one makes it and goes on to live a normal and great live. You both deserve it after all you went through.

Ganja could become an ambassador for not giving up on the little ones that go through these problems. And to show people that this surgery CAN work and IS a good option to try, rather then just to give up.

Perhaps one day you can make a write up about all your experiences, treatments, vet visits, insertions you had to do, everything incl. pictures you have. It could be very valuable to other GTP owners.

I continue crossing fingers and toes.

Ps. Having given shots to snakes, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to give to a squirmy fragile GTP. Since you have to apply the right measure of pressure to hold them still, yet gentleness to not hurt them. On top of that, enough pressure to puncture their skin but careful not to go to deep. That is difficult enough with a bigger snake. But a post-op tiny GTP ? I would be sweating bullets!!! Hopefully all that will be in the past soon and you can tell the story as you show people your beautiful, big, green GTP :)

Having to restrain her with one hand while reinserting prolapses with the other gave me great experience on how to comfortably (for the snake) restrain things. She was however not the world's best patient and did not want to sit still so yeah, a few dozen bullets were sweat out LOL.
I'm taking things one day at a time and if I only get a few months or even a few days with her it was worth the effort. I think it also depends on the overall health of the animal more than anything and aside from this prolapse this little girl is so full of hate and stubbornness, if this doesn't kill her, nothing will.

Ok... this got me thinking of a way to turn a paper towel roll into a gentle restraining device with a section cut away for injecting the snake. The more I think on it I start to improve the idea. Something that has a balloon apparatus that expands to gently restrain the snake inside an appropriate size PVC pipe. Hmmmmm...... The trick would be to get the snake to repeatedly crawl into it after the first experience of being inside it.

Thoughts?

Will draw a picture or 2 up and post if you like?

Edit: Here is the photo. LOL

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...352ef44c83.jpg

The best way is still the vet hold or to gently but firmly restrain the head just behind the jaw or if confident, the top and bottom of the head. It takes time but once you do it a bit, it becomes easy. The reason this is the best way is it allows you not only to keep the snake from escaping but allows you to better position the snake by working with their coiling to straighten the body.

I saw a tube being used on the show about the Bronx zoo where they had to retrain a cobra but that was because well venom but for snakes that are not huge, the vet grip is still the best method.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

The best way is still the vet hold or to gently but firmly restrain the head just behind the jaw or if confident, the top and bottom of the head. It takes time but once you do it a bit, it becomes easy. The reason this is the best way is it allows you not only to keep the snake from escaping but allows you to better position the snake by working with their coiling to straighten the body.

I saw a tube being used on the show about the Bronx zoo where they had to retrain a cobra but that was because well venom but for snakes that are not huge, the vet grip is still the best method.

---

Ok cool. Just a thought.

Just remember snakes are escape artists and if they can get away, they will. Securing them with your hand allows you to best monitor them and adjust quickly.

Skyrivers,
Using your own hand is best because of the feel you have.

You have to kind of adjust the pressure along with the snake. They tighten up to escape and wriggle, then relax and so forth. So you have to adjust alongside with the snake, and nothing takes the place of feeling it through your own hands. Esp. with such a small and fragile animal.

I think its cool to try to think of ways to make it easier, though. Kudos for that ! That is how things get invented. Although your snake looks more like a legless crocodile..hehe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

Skyrivers,
Using your own hand is best because of the feel you have.

You have to kind of adjust the pressure along with the snake. They tighten up to escape and wriggle, then relax and so forth. So you have to adjust alongside with the snake, and nothing takes the place of feeling it through your own hands. Esp. with such a small and fragile animal.

I think its cool to try to think of ways to make it easier, though. Kudos for that ! That is how things get invented. Although your snake looks more like a legless crocodile..hehe.

---

I am assuming you are talking about my retic? She might behave like one once full grown. LOL. Thank you for the information about treating one. I have never had the experience or the necessity to do any kind of medical care for a snake outside of dealing with my girlfriends RTB and that was mites. UGH.... happy she is treated now and was in the other room in quarantine still. I am an engineer by nature, biologist at heart, and love all my animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I am assuming you are talking about my retic? She might behave like one once full grown. LOL. Thank you for the information about treating one. I have never had the experience or the necessity to do any kind of medical care for a snake outside of dealing with my girlfriends RTB and that was mites. UGH.... happy she is treated now and was in the other room in quarantine still. I am an engineer by nature, biologist at heart, and love all my animals.

---

Gosh, no, your Retic is beautiful !!!

I was talking about THIS snake...


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...352ef44c83.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

Gosh, no, your Retic is beautiful !!!

I was talking about THIS snake...


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...352ef44c83.jpg

---

LOL. I see what you mean. and thank you.

Yup you have the best tools possible to adjust to your snake. If they were in a restraint and panicked you might end up with a disaster. Ganja is a squirmer so I constantly have to adjust my grip and let her sometimes slither and re-capture her. If she was in a locked tube I fear that she might harm herself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Yup you have the best tools possible to adjust to your snake. If they were in a restraint and panicked you might end up with a disaster. Ganja is a squirmer so I constantly have to adjust my grip and let her sometimes slither and re-capture her. If she was in a locked tube I fear that she might harm herself.

---

Didn't want that at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Ok... this got me thinking of a way to turn a paper towel roll into a gentle restraining device with a section cut away for injecting the snake. The more I think on it I start to improve the idea. Something that has a balloon apparatus that expands to gently restrain the snake inside an appropriate size PVC pipe. Hmmmmm...... The trick would be to get the snake to repeatedly crawl into it after the first experience of being inside it.

Thoughts?

Will draw a picture or 2 up and post if you like?

Edit: Here is the photo. LOL

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...352ef44c83.jpg

---

Lol good idea but the problem with injections is you dont want to go straight in like 90 degrees from the snake. You could risk puncturing an organ or something. When i had to give Rosey her Fortaz shots for a month, i had to do the first 1/3 of her body and you go in at an angle, under the skin and just into the muscle. I would dread giving a little snake a shot. Rosey was about 6 foot back then so it was much easier. I had to give Harley my beardie shots too that way. Giving shots sucks. I already hate needles lol.

I forgot to post the picture of Ganja when I got her home. She was so out of it, I put the tub into the enclosure and she just laid there for half an hour dopey and flicking her tongue every few minutes. I felt so bad for her but then she climbed up her perches and coiled up and went to sleep and all was ok

https://i.imgur.com/lie0KBc.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

I forgot to post the picture of Ganja when I got her home. She was so out of it, I put the tub into the enclosure and she just laid there for half an hour dopey and flicking her tongue every few minutes. I felt so bad for her but then she climbed up her perches and coiled up and went to sleep and all was ok

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/lie0KBc.jpg

---

i give you all the accolades possible for going through this and giving them every possible chance to thrive.

you mentioned giving shots but not getting bit...how did you manage that!? hahahaha.

Her neck looks so skinny! Poor little Ganja - glad she's doing well post surgery. May she continue to get better and be the healthiest little snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i give you all the accolades possible for going through this and giving them every possible chance to thrive.

you mentioned giving shots but not getting bit...how did you manage that!? hahahaha.

---

I have mad grabbing skills now from 4 months of prolapse duty. I think we have an understanding now. I molest her and she thinks of ways when she gets older to bite the heck out of me!

This time with her has gave a lot of insight in how to read flighty snakes and how to reach up from under them and slide my hand onto their head without getting in trouble. It's not easy at all but after practice, it's second nature now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

So now we get to give her injections for pain relief and antibiotics to avoid infection. Not something I am overly looking forward to doing thanks to those dagger teeth but it has to be done.

She recovered from anesthesia extremely well and the surgery went quick and Dr Pope was happy with her not having any damage or complications from chronic prolapse. Thankfully I had caught it each time before it got bad. She hates with a vengeance being confined to the ground and will fight and push to the point of self harm to perch so she is now coiled in her favorite spot high as a kite on pain killers :D

I have to give her a pain shot for the next 5 days every day and antibiotics every 3 days for a total of 4 shots. We go back in 3 weeks for a post op exam and to evaluate if the incision site stitches can come out. She is a stubborn strong little snake so I have hope she will come through.

Thankfully we never had to deal with infection or sepsis but the antibiotic series should help rule out anything that might happen while she is stressed.

This is an unorthodox surgery not because of any low success rate but due to the fact most keepers and breeders simply opt for euthanasia over surgery. Many cases also deal with necrosis of tissue due to not finding or taking the snake to a vet soon enough which leads to death from infection and stress. I am so glad we caught each time she prolapsed quickly but now I am hopeful we can stop having to watch her so closely and loose sleep over this.

Hopefully this is the end of her condition and the beginning of a quiet life, even if it is not for long, at least she will no longer have to go through this.


Thank you everyone for the well wishes and prays, It was very much appreciated.

---

Great info, thanks for sharing and educating us all. I will feel much more comfortable if I ever have to deal with this condition, knowing what I do from your thread here. You are a pet-keeper inspiration!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

I forgot to post the picture of Ganja when I got her home. She was so out of it, I put the tub into the enclosure and she just laid there for half an hour dopey and flicking her tongue every few minutes. I felt so bad for her but then she climbed up her perches and coiled up and went to sleep and all was ok

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/lie0KBc.jpg

---

great photo. I hope she/he puts on some weight soon. looking beautiful

She actually has put on quite a bit of weight since this all started. She went from 75 grams to 90 which is still not ideal but wonderful all things considered. She is not going to fed until after the antibiotic series is done. Thankfully that is done in 3 more doses so as of today, 12 days which for GTPs is not all that bad.

If she pulls through and poops without prolapse I am going to get her to ideal weight in no time, she is a voracious eater so feeding is no problem!

I really want her to make it. I want to watch that little Beauty grow into a gorgeous adult GTP !!

Well she is a bit more responsive tonight. I have a flashlight I shine in after the lights go out to check in on her and she perked right up and moved toward the light. She is coiling most of the time but I would be curled into a ball if I had my colon opened up and stitched to my ribs!

https://i.imgur.com/sJ0Kgvp.jpg

She is so pretty !

I love that she is staying so yellow/green. Once mine started that change, it went by far to quickly. It was my favorite stage in the color change. Ganja is gorgeous!!