Russian Rat Regurgitated

No don't freeze him! Put him in a paper towel and zip lock and the fridge. Freezing destroys tissue that can't be tested anymore...


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I'm so very very sorry. He did so well until that one feeding. Perhaps something was wrong with that rodent? Or perhaps the little one had a issue that stayed hidden for awhile...
I would want a full necropsy too..


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Originally Posted by zina10

No don't freeze him! Put him in a paper towel and zip lock and the fridge. Freezing destroys tissue that can't be tested anymore...


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Done. I will call the vet in the morning. Even after reluctantly eating the two live feeders he still lost weight. He just wasn't thriving. I just couldn't get him to turn the corner. Poor sweet little thing.

Just dropped him off at the vet, hopefully will get word late today or tomorrow. An awful sleepless night with my daughter, consumed with grief. I hope the necropsy gives us answers.

I reached out to his breeder to see if they've seen anything else in his litter. They are as perplexed as we are. They've never had problems with their Russians before. Which tells me it must be something I did. Half-wit pothead teenagers keep their snakes alive, and I managed to kill one of the hardiest species. Unbelievable.

We loved him hard for the couple of months we had him.

Sorry for your loss. I hope the necropsy sheds some light on the issue but even if it doesn't you shouldn't blame yourself. Not all snakes are destined to live, even with the best of care.

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Originally Posted by hilabeans

Just dropped him off at the vet, hopefully will get word late today or tomorrow. An awful sleepless night with my daughter, consumed with grief. I hope the necropsy gives us answers.

I reached out to his breeder to see if they've seen anything else in his litter. They are as perplexed as we are. They've never had problems with their Russians before. Which tells me it must be something I did. Half-wit pothead teenagers keep their snakes alive, and I managed to kill one of the hardiest species. Unbelievable.

We loved him hard for the couple of months we had him.

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Stop that right there. You did nothing wrong.

You let us follow you on your journey with that little dude, his setup, his feeding, his schedule.

And you are right. Others don't try half as hard to do it right, and their snakes are fine. Its NOT you !!!


There are so many variables. It could have been a birth defect. I got a beautiful Angolan Python a few years ago. My username was her name, Zina. That is a HARDY species. They were quite expensive back then. I was offered a little one that had a funny little defect on the belly. Just a line going through the scales where it shouldn't be. (not the belly button) It shouldn't have affected the snake and it didn't seem to. Snake was perfectly fine for a very long time. Until I found her dead one morning, many months and feedings later. All I can think, perhaps something INSIDE of the snake was also not right, and sometimes it takes time to become an issue. And not always do you see it on the outside..

It could have been that feeder. At that small size of feeders I doubt it was because it wasn't defrosted right or to warm. That would have caused a regurge, but not this drawn out listlessness and subsequent death. Besides, you know what TO warm is, and those tiny ones defrost so fast, no way was there a "cold" spot in there without you noticing. Unless that feeder had some kind of "poison" in it, due to what the mother was fed, or decomp setting in before freezing. Highly un-likely, but again, one never knows.

It could have been a virus or illness of some sort. Perhaps had it from before, or something that hitch hiked from a petstore or so ? That can happen to anyone. Perhaps the little ones body decided to go into hibernation and something went hay wire in its digestion system?

And lastly...sometimes you just get sick and die. Despite everything that is tried and done.

Whatever it was, it was not something you did. And you know it. Its juts part of the grief to want to blame it on something/someone, and often we point the finger at ourselves.

Sanitize the enclosure, throw away what cannot be sanitized, dust yourself off and when you are ready, welcome another new member to the family.

You provide an excellent home to these creatures, and that is what so many of them need..

(crying) Thank you Zina.

i am so, so sorry for you and your daughter's loss. you were nothing but an excellent snarent, and i'm sure you know that deep down.

sending positive vibes~
:grouphug:

I’m so sorry. I had to put down my husband’s little Deckert’s rat snake a couple weeks ago, and it was really really hard, even though we’d seen it coming. I suspect our little guy came to us with mites and was never healthy to begin with, but I still had to fight not to beat myself up with everything I might have done wrong. And now I’m getting all sniffly again.


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I'm very sorry for your loss. I can't say anything that Zina hasn't already said so nicely, please accept my sympathies.

The vet confirmed - a 'significant' bacterial infection in his liver and stomach. His heart and lungs looked good. He could have gotten the infection from a bad feeder. He could have had it before he even came to us because it can take a long time to present. But those questions will be left unanswered.

I will pick up his remains next week and we will give him a proper burial.

Very unfortunate news but atleast we know this was something you couldn't have possibly known. This isn't your fault. You gave him your all and absolute best. :hug: Rest in peace sweet Bonsai!

By chance do you have any idea if it may have been from the live or frozen feeders? Which supplier did you get them from?

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Originally Posted by hilabeans

The vet confirmed - a 'significant' bacterial infection in his liver and stomach. His heart and lungs looked good. He could have gotten the infection from a bad feeder. He could have had it before he even came to us because it can take a long time to present. But those questions will be left unanswered.

I will pick up his remains next week and we will give him a proper burial.

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i hope the results bring you peace of mind that you did everything you could have done.
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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i hope the results bring you peace of mind that you did everything you could have done.

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Yes, for sure. While we're still mourning, it does bring me some peace knowing it wasn't some dumb rookie mistake I made.

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Very unfortunate news but atleast we know this was something you couldn't have possibly known. This isn't your fault. You gave him your all and absolute best. :hug: Rest in peace sweet Bonsai!

By chance do you have any idea if it may have been from the live or frozen feeders? Which supplier did you get them from?

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Sadly, there was no way for the doctor to tell how long he had it or where he could have definitively gotten it from. He guesses it was for a while because of how pronounced it was, and because it can take a long time to build. We had Bonzai for 2.5 months and he said he could have had the beginnings of it before he even got to us. He could have gotten it from feeders, or from another reptile. But it's all just a guess.

During the time we had him, we gave him f/t pinkies from two different sources. One was from PetSmart, and the other was a local mom & pop pet store. From the little pet shop - I can't remember the brand name of the pinks, but they came by the dozen in a little blue box, individually sealed in plastic. That was the brand of the regurged mouse. I'll get the name when I get home, I think I still have some in the freezer.

The two live feeders also came from two different sources. One from a local specialty reptile store and the last from a BRB breeder in town who also sells his own mice. But Bonzai was already sick by the time he got those, so I don't think it was the live feeders.

My condolences..

Do not let this stop you from trying again, it was not your fault.

This can happen to any of us..