Went to Petco for some animal supplies and just happen to check in the snakes....

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Originally Posted by Aerries

Hey y’all, so the management team at the store did call me today....just got off the phone with him. He said that the three BPs in question were taken out of the tanks and actually fed....yea what a surprise there.....he continued to say that they keep strict feeding records but couldn’t tell me the last time they ate, he also goes on to tell me that he’s not sure how this could have happened. IT TAKES TIME for this kind of neglect to happen.....it was all typical PR bs. Give me answers and I’ll shut up and be happy....not likely, I️ will be going in doing random checks just to make sure they’re doing their bloody job, I’ve already got a hold of two organizations for animal cruelty, one being the aspca and I’m in contact with a ACO that’s a childhood friend that might be able to look into it. We will see

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i seriously appreciate you taking time out of your days to try and help those poor lil babies. that's all we can do for them: try.

thank you for the update. i hope there's more positive ones in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Omfg! Which Petco is this? I will call them tomorrow! That is uncalled for and wtf! This is beyond neglect! City and address and I'll do the rest!

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from OP:

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Originally Posted by Aerries

Here’s the address 3201 Vineland Road
Kissimmee, FL 34746

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I just went to my local petsnart to get some supplies today. Although the tanks are small with one hide atleast it’s one snake per enclosure and they don’t look to bad. I contribute this to it being a very small petsmart with only two snakes two beardies and a turtle cage. But the pictures you showed are unacceptable and Kudos to you for fighting the good fight.

Email your congressman/woman with pictures and description of these conditions and ask them to work on improving this.

I doubt anything will happen but you never know. right now Petco and Petsmart do no care they will not change and the only thing that will stop this is legislation similar to new laws banning sales form puppy mills.

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Originally Posted by Aerries

Hey y’all, so the management team at the store did call me today....just got off the phone with him. He said that the three BPs in question were taken out of the tanks and actually fed....yea what a surprise there.....he continued to say that they keep strict feeding records but couldn’t tell me the last time they ate, he also goes on to tell me that he’s not sure how this could have happened. IT TAKES TIME for this kind of neglect to happen.....it was all typical PR bs. Give me answers and I’ll shut up and be happy....not likely, I️ will be going in doing random checks just to make sure they’re doing their bloody job, I’ve already got a hold of two organizations for animal cruelty, one being the aspca and I’m in contact with a ACO that’s a childhood friend that might be able to look into it. We will see


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This is bs. Yes there are feeding charts. Policy states if a snake loses 10% of its body weight a vet is consulted. There is a specific policy set up. This store is not following it! This has been going on for months I'm seeing from the condition of it. I have dealt with a snake not eating at work. Those snakes should have been off the floor months ago. These snakes should have been under vet care. They are not feeding them proper size, I can see just from looking at them. Everyone needs to call so the regional mgr gets the message too. I can tell you how to work it. Pm me for more info. Let's get these babies taken care of!

Just a heads up for everyone following this, I’ve spoken with “Animal Handling” with petco and the district manager will be contacting me. Also waiting on a response back from the ACO that emailed me last night to see what can be done.


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Originally Posted by Aerries

Just a heads up for everyone following this, I’ve spoken with “Animal Handling” with petco and the district manager will be contacting me. Also waiting on a response back from the ACO that emailed me last night to see what can be done.


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They also got back to me, letting me know that they are in touch with you and working on that situation. Hopefully they will realize this is not a isolated incident and that something needs to change, nation wide, when it comes to their reptile department. Hopefully they are willing to reach out to resources that can help and will implement some changes. One can hope. This is a great chance to bring ideas to them or ask for "change" ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

They also got back to me, letting me know that they are in touch with you and working on that situation. Hopefully they will realize this is not a isolated incident and that something needs to change, nation wide, when it comes to their reptile department. Hopefully they are willing to reach out to resources that can help and will implement some changes. One can hope. This is a great chance to bring ideas to them or ask for "change" ;)

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So I️ just looked into the gentleman that emailed me from the SPCA....he’s the Executive Director of SPCA Florida [emoji50]


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I'd be careful about contacting news or government about the issues... there are a lot of "animal rights" organizations out there that love to take stories like these and use them as fodder for trying to prove why the exotic pet market needs to end and none of us should be allowed to keep them as pets.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'd be careful about contacting news or government about the issues... there are a lot of "animal rights" organizations out there that love to take stories like these and use them as fodder for trying to prove why the exotic pet market needs to end and none of us should be allowed to keep them as pets.

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That's what they said about puppy mills and look at how many states now have laws against stores selling from them and yet dogs are not outlawed. No, we need to expose this to show a wrong doing without fear of it leading to the end of reptile ownership. There are many aspects of the exotic pet trade that do need to end (wild caught, wholesale farms, flippers, chains like petsmart and petco selling without basic care, etc). This industry has a dirty side that needs attention paid to it.

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Originally Posted by SDA

That's what they said about puppy mills and look at how many states now have laws against stores selling from them and yet dogs are not outlawed. No, we need to expose this to show a wrong doing without fear of it leading to the end of reptile ownership. There are many aspects of the exotic pet trade that do need to end (wild caught, wholesale farms, flippers, chains like petsmart and petco selling without basic care, etc). This industry has a dirty side that needs attention paid to it.

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I've got mixed feelings on wc animals and imports, on one hand with most species you don't really need a wc as they're already commonly bred. On the other hand wc animals were and still are important for creating new morphs and combos and introducing new blood into lines. Or getting an animal from a specific locality that may be hard to find captive bred. But unless you're a breeder of some sort, I really don't think there is much of a reason to get an import or wc.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

I've got mixed feelings on wc animals and imports, on one hand with most species you don't really need a wc as they're already commonly bred. On the other hand wc animals were and still are important for creating new morphs and combos and introducing new blood into lines. Or getting an animal from a specific locality that may be hard to find captive bred. But unless you're a breeder of some sort, I really don't think there is much of a reason to get an import or wc.

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I respectfully disagree. I don't think we should ever take wild animals from their natural habitat in order to gain something from them. I have no problem with captive bred, born, and raised. But for me personally, i'd never think of purchasing a wild caught animal. But, everyone is free to their own opinion and free to make their own choices.

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Originally Posted by dylan815

I don't think we should ever take wild animals from their natural habitat in order to gain something from them.

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I have no problem with captive bred, born, and raised.

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You can't have one without the other though.

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Originally Posted by dylan815

I respectfully disagree. I don't think we should ever take wild animals from their natural habitat in order to gain something from them. I have no problem with captive bred, born, and raised. But for me personally, i'd never think of purchasing a wild caught animal. But, everyone is free to their own opinion and free to make their own choices.

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If animals were never taken from the wild none of us would have pets. I agree their aren't many reasons to do so in 2017, but without it ever happening the world would be a far different place.

Even our food, for those of us who eat meat, at one point was wild. Caught, domesticated, and selectively bred



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Originally Posted by NPE76

If animals were never taken from the wild none of us would have pets. I agree their aren't many reasons to do so in 2017, but without it ever happening the world would be a far different place.

Even our food, for those of us who eat meat, at one point was wild. Caught, domesticated, and selectively bred for human benefit.

Dogs, Cats, horses, and reptiles were all wild animals at some point.
Its fine to choose not to buy WC, but there is no reason to look down upon it.

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There is no reason for a hobbyist or pet owner to own a wild caught snake. The problem that is happening still is that native populations are being threatened by capturing wild caught for the pet trade. Let's take ball pythons for example, there is zero reason for anyone from a breeder on down to have a wild caught ball python in this day and age of over breeding of captive bred specimens.

If some new and cool snake is discovered, there is also no reason to suddenly capture it for the pet trade. There are more than enough snake species being currently captive bred that we never again need to touch wild populations. I respect the past that we got this hobby from wild caught specimens but it has evolved far enough away from ever having a wild caught again enter the hobby.

So yes, there is NOW a reason to look down upon it. Just because someone can afford something does not mean there should be justification to remove it from the wild to give it to that person now that we have a long established captive bred industry. Owning anything wild caught is careless and selfish. that goes for zoos on down to people like me.

Wow my thread just took a totally different turn hahah


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Originally Posted by NPE76

If animals were never taken from the wild none of us would have pets. I agree their aren't many reasons to do so in 2017, but without it ever happening the world would be a far different place.

Even our food, for those of us who eat meat, at one point was wild. Caught, domesticated, and selectively bred



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I am a strict vegetarian. I have been since I was 14.


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Originally Posted by NPE76

If animals were never taken from the wild none of us would have pets. I agree their aren't many reasons to do so in 2017, but without it ever happening the world would be a far different place.

Even our food, for those of us who eat meat, at one point was wild. Caught, domesticated, and selectively bred



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So no dogs either then?


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Originally Posted by dylan815

So no dogs either then?


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Not sure what you mean by this ....


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Let's get this thread back on track, did your news station get back to you yet? Also I caught your post on Imgur, it'd help if you posted some pics of healthy bps. People aren't going to do anything if they don't think anything is wrong.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

Let's get this thread back on track, did your news station get back to you yet? Also I caught your post on Imgur, it'd help if you posted some pics of healthy bps. People aren't going to do anything if they don't think anything is wrong.

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Yea I’m still new to imgur, not sure how to edit it and add pictures. And no nothing from the news station, or spca, or petco district manager...I imagine I’ll hear from them around 5-6 est. that’s when I got my first call on Wednesday. I’ve emailed the executive director of the spca Florida with some more info but still haven’t heard back from him.


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Originally Posted by Aerries

Yea I’m still new to imgur, not sure how to edit it and add pictures. And no nothing from the news station, or spca, or petco district manager...I imagine I’ll hear from them around 5-6 est. that’s when I got my first call on Wednesday. I’ve emailed the executive director of the spca Florida with some more info but still haven’t heard back from him.


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If you want, I could make a more comprehensive post. I'm not the best writer but I'd give it a shot.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

If you want, I could make a more comprehensive post. I'm not the best writer but I'd give it a shot.

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I went a head and posted again with some pictures of my girls/boy as well for comparison


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Originally Posted by Aerries

I went a head and posted again with some pictures of my girls/boy as well for comparison


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Would you mind if I reposted these on my ig? So more people could see the pics and raise a stink at Petco.

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

Would you mind if I reposted these on my ig? So more people could see the pics and raise a stink at Petco.

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All good go for it, you have my permission


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Originally Posted by savora

My inner empathy begs me to just adopt those poor reptiles just to relieve their suffering, but I know that once these animals are bought, the store buys more to replace them and continue the horror. I can't support that kind of business.

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I often feel this exact way and often have to remind myself its a endless vicious cycle at these shops. [emoji26]


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So, I sent the pictures and the post I made to ig to some of my friends to try and spread the word. One of them tweeted them and actually got a response from Petco.
https://i.imgur.com/hmv3VlN.jpg

Why not just get the free app TapaTalk ??

It's brilliant for forum use and has a built in ONE button photo upload that even I manage to use :)


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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

So, I sent the pictures and the post I made to ig to some of my friends to try and spread the word. One of them tweeted them and actually got a response from Petco.
https://i.imgur.com/hmv3VlN.jpg

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Yea that’s what your going to get, he store will call and honestly they’re going to just give you the typical PR BS. We need to give the upper management the heads up, I’m STILL waiting on a call from the district manager.


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Call again! Every day call. This is the way to deal with it. Every day!

I can try to get the distric mgr # for you.

Looks like I have to reach out to Animal Control, SPCA said that that’s where I would need to really start.


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I am really happy you are sticking with this. I don't want you to get discouraged at all because it may just make the difference. I hope this makes an improvement in that store. We had one locally that had this problem and after a long ordeal of complaints, they improved. Unfortunately they fell into their old ways again after a few years but for a while it was an improvement.

Hey guys just an update if anyone’s still paying attention lol. I spoke with the district manager...he walked me though the “training” which is adequate for BASIC keeping....not thriving, it REALLLLY is idiot proof, pictures and everything. The snakes did see a vet and the DM will be calling me with results tomorrow. I really wanted to tell him to give them to me. But I’m not letting up...I’m going to call Animal Control in regards to this...


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I would have asked for them. Lol. If you push enough you will get them. Don't let up! I hope the animal manager gets her butt handed to her.

Wow, I'm a bit surprised they even had that much of a training program. Please keep us posted

It's not "training" it's a protocol. I have it...on me..right now lol.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

It's not "training" it's a protocol. I have it...on me..right now lol.

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Yea that's what was said, "training" lol the three I believe was a normal, bumblebee, and lemonblast that went to the vet...


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If they were following the "training" they would have been to the vet a month ago. At any point a snake loses 10% of its highest weight recorded a vet is consulted first. If they haven't eaten three consecutive feedings a vet is called. So wtf did this store do? Nothing....that's what the did! They let those poor babies suffer and did not follow protocol! I'm so mad!

Yep, and they make sure lodging a complaint that actually gets actioned on is an ordeal in hopes you give up and go away so they can resume the status quo. This is why I gave tips on how to pressure them and avoid getting your complaints eaten by a system designed to make sure they disappear or do not get acted on.

I do NOT buy animals from Petco or Petsmart and avoid purchasing anything period if possible and that's after having deal with these idiots in a capacity where I had a far more direct line to corporate than you're going to get talking to the social media manager or an employee at the store/online. It's sickening, and there's a reason employees show up on the snakes Reddit with regularity having to ask for hacked fixes to keep animals alive from internet randos, rather than the store just doing it themselves. Because they love the bottom dollar most of all. Period.

Case in point: last weekend, had an employee with an animal with a lacerated head that supposedly couldn't go see a vet until monday. All I could advise is the usual betadine + painfree neosporin and rigging a condom or finger shield into a brace to make sure the animal wasn't putting stress on the skin flap.

Not like they can't afford to, charging a nearly x2 markup compared to what a breeder would ask for given similar morphs. I shouldn't be having to regularly educate people who are doing this for a job at a place that supposedly loves animals. It proves why the sale of these animals should be banned at these kind of stores.

I agree we shouldn't be selling reptiles at all. At all! Supplies yes, animals no!

however all of us who work there are not idiots! I educate people before they buy. I'm not an idiot. I care about my animals, even though I agree we shouldn't sell them.

I meant that corporate is idiots (I'd prefer to use other wording that I'm not allowed to use on this forum), since they regularly and knowingly hire people with no experience to care for specialized animals, snakes, fish, and birds alike, since getting employees with more training and base knowledge would require paying more. And then proceed to profit off the backs and efforts of the employees who do know something about the animals and strive to educate themselves and find solutions for situations as basic as keeping an animal alive.

It shouldn't be a circumstance where I have to worry about telling someone how to keep a snake alive on the internet being used as a means to decide they don't have to put out for vet care for that animal since there's a non-vet solution.

They've already made it exceedingly clear time and time again they do NOT care about the normals, and barely about more expensive designer morphs. All in all, it's a system of failings on multiple levels from the distributors who provide animals to them knowing they'll die, to managers who hire specifically based on employees not knowing the animals so they're less likely to complain about the care standards, to corporate who has made their level of "love" known by not even managing to care about their human employees needs and worth (evidenced in the low wages, the outsourced employees with a 8x11 sheet of info to pretend they're ~knowledgeable~ with and told to Google the rest, and rampant nepotism and favortism that ends in actual animal advocate employees being terminated soon as they're given a reason). You know, let alone their love and care shown for living, breathing animals. Dealing with calls about Petsmart's salons and being told you're not even allowed to say sorry to someone with a dog who got mauled by their groomer since it's an "admission of guilt to say sorry" is a pretty cool thing.

I agree with all of that.

My sister in law runs a PetCo and she is well versed on snakes and care, I make sure of it. The Petsmart by my house not so much. 98 degree ambient - No water - dry aspen... Pretty ridiculous and I say something every time I am in there...

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

dry aspen...

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You lost me right there.....

Like there was 0 humidity in the cage California Forest Fire Dry... I don't know how else to describe it - Dry Bedding - 0 Humidity - No agua in the cago - sorry my Spanish sucks... lol

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

- sorry my Spanish sucks... lol

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Mein Deutsch ist gut...... :gj: Nice try though. :rofl::rofl:

Humidity doesn't equal wet conditions or substrate. You can have good humidity without having wet and moldy aspen.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

My sister in law runs a PetCo and she is well versed on snakes and care, I make sure of it. The Petsmart by my house not so much. 98 degree ambient - No water - dry aspen... Pretty ridiculous and I say something every time I am in there...

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98F ambient !?!?!? Can you imagine what the surface temps must be ??!!


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Hey, Sorry I'm a bit late to the party lol. Any updates? I've been reading this thread today with my mouth wide open. This really really needs to be fixed! I can't believe these chain pet stores! :rage::angered::dead::frustrateThe one near me isn't the best. I've seen severally dehydrated balls and dead geckos, this is ridiculous! A few times I've typed up emails to managers, but never had the confidence to send them. It's awesome what you're doing. I feel so bad for those poor babies, they deserve so much better :tears: