Behira - 2016 Female Ivory Ghost - First BCI

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Originally Posted by c0r3yr0s3

She's beautiful. Nice picture quality too. My only camera is my phone and it doesn't come close to capturing the true beauty of anything, especially snakes

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Thank you! I love her.

The phones have come pretty far, but if you know what you are doing (even a little like me), real cameras still take the best shots.

For what it's worth, half the photos I have up are spur of the moment from my iPhone. :).

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That's a beautiful Boa !!

Maybe take a series or photos over a BLACK background to enhance the colours even more ..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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I thought about black, but had her out, and was excited to try out the lens AND she was holding still! Need to be really still for a macro lens to work especially in lower light. Very still, tripod, etc.

I'll try to do some with a better background soon!

Thank you for the tip!

As far as the feeding, I feed my boas based off of age, if that's known. All meals leave little to no bulge, and if they leave a larger bulge than I like, I either wait an extra 1-2 weeks or skip a feeding day, and then offer their usual size.


Birth - 1 year get fed every 10-14 days.
1 year olds get fed 14+ days.
2 year olds get fed every 2-3 weeks.
3+ year olds get fed every 4-6 weeks, though most of mine don't go any longer than 5 weeks.


I also begin reducing feeds during the winter at the 1.5 year mark, and fasts at the 2.5 year mark. If I decide they aren't ready for fasting one winter, I'll just reduce feeding or feed normally through the winter. I also drop temps slightly if I fast, but not if I just reduce feedings. If I reduce feedings, that's half as often for about 4 months, if I fast that's a temp drop with no food for 3 months.


If I don't know the age, I feed based off of prey size, because feeding the way I do, I've found they're normally on X prey size by X age. Unless some other factor makes me decide otherwise, this is what I use for prey sizes:


All mice get fed every 10-14 days. They're generally off of mice around the 1.5-2 year mark.
Weaned rats get fed every 2-3 weeks. They're generally on weaned rats from 1.5-2.5 years old.
Small rats get fed every 3 weeks. They're usually on smalls from 2.5+ years.
Mediums get fed every 4 weeks.
Larges and 1/2 lb rabbits get fed every 4-6 weeks.
1 lb rabbits get fed every 6-8 weeks.
2 lb rabbits get fed every 8-10 weeks.


That said, none of my boas have gotten big enough to eat anything larger than a large rat or 1/2 lb rabbit, my biggest is 7'. A lot of people I see give boas that size 2-3 lb rabbits, but imo that's just way way too much. I wouldn't feed a 1 lb rabbit to a boa under 8', and I wouldn't feed a 2-pounder to a boa under 9'-10'. Which boas rarely ever get that big. I have a 7 year old male that's 4'2", a 6.5 year old male that's 6.5', and a 9.5 year old female that's around the 7' mark so she likely won't be getting any bigger either.


I completely avoid jumbo mice, jumbo or larger rats, Guinea pigs, pigs, and hamsters due to fat content. If you don't have access to rabbits, I would make any rats above a large 1/3 of the diet or less. So feed large-large-jumbo, then back to large-large-jumbo, etc. Just to balance out the fat intake. Do not ever feed the giant rats, they've been known to cause color loss, liver failure, and death quite quickly in boas. Very few suppliers have them, but I believe Rodent Pro does.


None of my boas ever get fed weekly (not as a normal part of a healthy boa's diet anyways), imo it's not necessary.




6'x2's are definitely really big. lmao I have two 6'x2's that are 3' tall, and since they're wooden, there is no real way to take them apart. Which has made them a real pain to move around, but I may eventually switch those out for 6' AP cages so I can just break them down. I like being able to offer my boas the bigger floor space of the 6'x2's, but 4'x2's are definitely better space savers. haha




Nothing beats a nice DSLR! I like to have a few different ones on hand. I have a T3i I plan on switching out for a newer model later on down the road, and I want to get another Nikon D3200 or later as well, since they capture colors and pictures slightly differently. I like the flash photography better on the Nikons, but Canon takes way better sunlight photos imo.

Okay, so I have heard mixed views on feeding larger rats to BCI's when they are appropriate size.

If I don't have easy access to rabbits, what should I do when Behira is full grown (obviously not sure how big she will be but the breeder estimated 13-20 pounds, and 6.5-8FT, based on the size of her parents).

What's the largest size rat you would feed a BCI (by weight and/or age please - everyone seems to label them differently)? Instead of a 600-700G rat, would you feed two 300G rats instead and still every 3-4 weeks? Or, feed a smaller rat every 2-3 weeks, etc?

If feeding two rats, do they take willingly? The only snake species I have experience feeding multiple food items at once (in one feeding) is very young corn snakes. They are garbage disposals.

I thought when Behira was a big girl that I would feed appropriate sized rats every 3-5 weeks. However, I have heard several times now, that really large rats are not good for BCI's because of fat content.

At 15 pounds, Behira would be about 6,800 grams. So a 400-600G rat would make sense, right? However, do not want to feed her something that isn't going to be healthy for her.

For what it is worth, I know I have a long time before she's eating anything near that size (she's about 700G now). However, would be good to know and (I think) good for other BCI keepers on here to know too.

I usually get from Big Cheese Rodent Factory.

Large: 180-279G

Jumbo (6-8 months old and retired breeders): 280-399G

Colossal (also 6-8 months old and retired breeders): 400G-700G

Any thoughts are welcomed.

Thank you in advance.

I'll feed jumbos but IMO Colossals are too fatty.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'll feed jumbos but IMO Colossals are too fatty.

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My dear boy is 21 months old now. The last time he ate was on the 8th of December. He decided to go off food now(winter). He was eating jumbo live rats 400+ grams. I,m not sure if those Jumbos or Colossals.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'll feed jumbos but IMO Colossals are too fatty.

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Okay, so up to 400G, or there about, is safe, in your opinion?

How big is/are your BCI(s) that eat the jumbos?

What is their feeding schedule?

Thank you! I appreciate the response.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Okay, so up to 400G, or there about, is safe, in your opinion?

How big is/are your BCI(s) that eat the jumbos?

What is their feeding schedule?

Thank you! I appreciate the response.

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I don't weigh feeders (and never really weighed my snakes until i got back into BPs recently) but yeah, jumbos are about as big as I go for rats. I got a couple XXL when one of my suppliers was out of XL (jumbo) recently and they just seem fatty to me, the boas' defecations were also a bit greasy looking (which is usually from too much fat in the feeder).

My boas that eat jumbos are 6-6'5 adults (over 10yrs of age). Usually 1 jumbo every 6 weeks or so (I try to vary it between 4-8 weeks). For my biggest girl who was 8.5' (she passed last year at 28yrs old), she'd take small rabbits but I didn't have a reliable source, so I'd usually give her 2 jumbos.

Different things work, there's no 'set' schedule but generally with boas, slower growing is the way to go for good muscle density and long life.
I hope that helps a little!

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I don't weigh feeders (and never really weighed my snakes until i got back into BPs recently) but yeah, jumbos are about as big as I go for rats. I got a couple XXL when one of my suppliers was out of XL (jumbo) recently and they just seem fatty to me, the boas' defecations were also a bit greasy looking (which is usually from too much fat in the feeder).

My boas that eat jumbos are 6-6'5 adults (over 10yrs of age). Usually 1 jumbo every 6 weeks or so (I try to vary it between 4-8 weeks). For my biggest girl who was 8.5' (she passed last year at 28yrs old), she'd take small rabbits but I didn't have a reliable source, so I'd usually give her 2 jumbos.

Different things work, there's no 'set' schedule but generally with boas, slower growing is the way to go for good muscle density and long life.
I hope that helps a little!

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Thank you! That is very helpful.

I am sorry for your loss last year. 28 years is a great run though. You sound like a great keeper and I am sure you gave her a great life.

Yeah. Slow and steady. Behira isn’t even 2 and is eating smaller meals every 2 weeks.

I want a happy and healthy girl for a long time!

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Originally Posted by dakski

Okay, so I have heard mixed views on feeding larger rats to BCI's when they are appropriate size.

If I don't have easy access to rabbits, what should I do when Behira is full grown (obviously not sure how big she will be but the breeder estimated 13-20 pounds, and 6.5-8FT, based on the size of her parents).

What's the largest size rat you would feed a BCI (by weight and/or age please - everyone seems to label them differently)? Instead of a 600-700G rat, would you feed two 300G rats instead and still every 3-4 weeks? Or, feed a smaller rat every 2-3 weeks, etc?

If feeding two rats, do they take willingly? The only snake species I have experience feeding multiple food items at once (in one feeding) is very young corn snakes. They are garbage disposals.

I thought when Behira was a big girl that I would feed appropriate sized rats every 3-5 weeks. However, I have heard several times now, that really large rats are not good for BCI's because of fat content.

At 15 pounds, Behira would be about 6,800 grams. So a 400-600G rat would make sense, right? However, do not want to feed her something that isn't going to be healthy for her.

For what it is worth, I know I have a long time before she's eating anything near that size (she's about 700G now). However, would be good to know and (I think) good for other BCI keepers on here to know too.

I usually get from Big Cheese Rodent Factory.

Large: 180-279G

Jumbo (6-8 months old and retired breeders): 280-399G

Colossal (also 6-8 months old and retired breeders): 400G-700G

Any thoughts are welcomed.

Thank you in advance.

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Any adult boa under 8' should easily be able to stay on regular larges for life, without any need for jumbos, colossals, etc. My 7' girl just gets a regular large rat or 1/2 lb rabbit every 4-5 weeks. She's 10-13 lbs. My 6.5' boy is only 8.5-9 lbs, and gets the same size meal, but his rabbits may be as small as 1/4 lb.

This is my 7' girl.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/kQqs48M.jpg

My larges are in the 150-265 gram range, I buy from both Big Cheese and Perfect Prey as is available. I don't feed rats to my 6'-7' boas that are over maybe 290 grams max.

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Originally Posted by Dutti

My dear boy is 21 months old now. The last time he ate was on the 8th of December. He decided to go off food now(winter). He was eating jumbo live rats 400+ grams. I,m not sure if those Jumbos or Colossals.

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If your boa is 21 months old and already large enough to eat jumbo rats, he's been power fed. My 33 month old boas are 4' or under, and eating small rats. Are you positive about the age? How long have you had him, and how big was he when you got him? As I've mentioned, not even my big 7' girl gets jumbos.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

If your boa is 21 months old and already large enough to eat jumbo rats, he's been power fed. My 33 month old boas are 4' or under, and eating small rats. Are you positive about the age? How long have you had him, and how big was he when you got him? As I've mentioned, not even my big 7' girl gets jumbos.

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Since this may easily get derailed, prior threads about this:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...oa-Constrictor
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-you-give-them
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...erage-boa-size
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ng-with-my-Boa

PS I love your jungle Cloud, so pretty

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Any adult boa under 8' should easily be able to stay on regular larges for life, without any need for jumbos, colossals, etc. My 7' girl just gets a regular large rat or 1/2 lb rabbit every 4-5 weeks. She's 10-13 lbs. My 6.5' boy is only 8.5-9 lbs, and gets the same size meal, but his rabbits may be as small as 1/4 lb.

This is my 7' girl.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/kQqs48M.jpg

My larges are in the 150-265 gram range, I buy from both Big Cheese and Perfect Prey as is available. I don't feed rats to my 6'-7' boas that are over maybe 290 grams max.



If your boa is 21 months old and already large enough to eat jumbo rats, he's been power fed. My 33 month old boas are 4' or under, and eating small rats. Are you positive about the age? How long have you had him, and how big was he when you got him? As I've mentioned, not even my big 7' girl gets jumbos.

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I was there when he was born. I got him when he was a month old and since then i have him. I have his identification papers with his birth date with me. I don,t think that he is power fed, because the last time he ate was on the 8th of December, that does not sound powerfeeding to me. He makes the rules, so he decided to stop eating in winter so i did not force him to feed. usually i feed him every two weeks on average. Here is a photo of him the day i got him
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/25qf4fn.jpg[/IMG]

It seems some others have mentioned the same thing about potential overfeeding. Keep in mind, boas have a limit to what they will eat. Some will eat themselves to death, some will regulate their intake, but it takes a LOT of food to get them to stop eating. If your boa is willingly going off of food every so often, considering what you've said about his feeding and the large size for his age, that is likely what's going on. He's getting more food than he needs, so he's going off of food. I went through a similar experience with Cloud when I was unknowingly power-feeding him. He was eating jumbo-sized rats when he should have still been on smalls (he was 4.5'-5'), after a few feedings, he started missing feeds until he went from weekly feedings to every 4 weeks on his own. I dropped him back down, and he went back to eating weekly, but I no longer feed my boas that often.

Your boa is already a few feet longer than my 2.5 year old boas at only 1.5 years old. My boas that are an entire year older than your boa are 2'-2.5' shorter than your boa. They are both getting small rats every 3 weeks, not jumbos every 1 or 2 weeks. That feeding schedule is power feeding, and would explain his rapid growth.

I do want to say, it is easy to assume that is normal growth and the feeding is acceptable, because most people do power feed their snakes and 6'-6.5' is common by 2-3 years old on the average feeding schedule. 1.5 years is a bit young, but I have heard of it. Most breeders feed their snakes with rapid growth in mind for early breeding. Instead of waiting 5-6 years for their females to properly mature and 3+ years for males, they get females to breeding size by about 2-3 years old and males as early as 18 months. This unfortunately reduces the viability of their reproduction, drastically shortens their lifespan (by up to a quarter of their potential lifespan), and increases the chance of mortality while gravid or from fatty liver disease.

Since power feeding is the norm for breeders, and breeders have a lot of influence over the community, it is easy for inexperienced owners to assume that feeding method is ok. So many people are stuck on this feeding regimen, that even a lot of keepers who view their feeding as conservative still feed a lot more food than is necessary or healthy for boas. You want a slow, even growth for maximum health and longevity. Getting them up to adult sizes before 4-6 years old is quite unhealthy for them, but since that's a norm, it's hard to gauge what is healthy growth for a lot of keepers.

Most of the biggest, most experienced breeders of boas (especially breeders that actually study boas in their natural habitat) feed in similar manners as I do, as they've found out that boas live longer and breed better when fed a lot less than the average keeper feeds their boas. Many boas would die by 6-15 years, so several breeders, such as Vin Russo, developed a dramatic rehaul in boa feeding to increase health in their collections. This is why my advise is such that is, and why I mentioned the possibility of power feeding to you with your boa.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

PS I love your jungle Cloud, so pretty

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Thanks! She came straight from Gray Rushin, already proven, top notch quality with multiple pastel lineages. She was bred for the first time at 7 years old, had a perfect litter of 19 babies, no stills or slugs. :) She'll be 10 years this June. One of her daughters really caught my eye, but I wanted a female that was already mature enough to breed, so I went with her mother.

I love Behira!

She ate tonight. Hadn't eaten in two weeks, which is her schedule now that she is on small rats and weighs 690G empty.

So I put the defrosted and warm F/T rat on tongs, dangle in front of her for a little, and nothing. She looked interested, but didn't strike right away.

So, I did what I have done in the past, put it down in front of her.

She spent 1/2 an hour watching me feed everyone else, looking out the front of her tank, sniffing the air and even the rat, etc.

Finally, she bit into the rat, got really excited, half struck while biting it, bit harder, and coiled it! This time she didn't coil for, seemingly, ever, and started chowing down quickly.

She's a goof, but I love her. Nice to have another snake who happily eats even when I don't shake it for a while to elicit a strike.

My BP, Shayna is so shy, she almost never strikes, and wants the rat put down, and me to walk away. Figment, my corn snake, could care less. If I shake for 1 second, he strikes, if I drop it in, he strikes, etc. He eats anything anytime!

Anyway, very happy she is eating regularly (which she always has) and seems happy. She is really settled in now.

Okay, quick question, for the BCI/snake behavior experts out there.

I have been hook training Behira for about 3 weeks now, and that is going great.

I feed her at night with tank lights, and most room lights, off, so it's pretty dark.

During the day/lights on is when I handle. Her lights are on from 9AM-9PM, give or take a few minutes.

Lately, when I walk by the tank at night, she looks ready to strike/in hunt mode. She hasn't struck the front of the tank yet, but I wouldn't put it past her.

I don't want her to get hurt, and I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but should I be doing something differently?

I always feed my snakes in near darkness/at night so they associate light with being handled. However, I have never had as aggressive a feeder as Behira. Even Figment, my corn snake, looks for food at night, but isn't ready to strike until he smells mouse. He does go completely APE once he is sure it's feeding time though.

A couple other things.

I only go by the tanks at night if I need to feed the geckos or it's snake feeding day. Otherwise everyone is left alone in the 5 tank stack (the tanks in the corner of my finished basement in a little nook so they do not get bothered unless I need to do something with them/the animals). Last night I fed the Gecko's and as soon as I walked by, she was out of her hide and in S/strike mode.

Behira eats every 2 weeks, on Sunday, a small rat. She was 690G empty before last feeding (this past Sunday).

She is a total puppy dog once stroked with the soft end of the hook, and completely mellow once picked up! Total sweetheart.

Thank you for any and all thoughts!

I wish I could help more with this but I don' have any good advice. Boas are a bit notorious for striking the front of the cage. Quite a few of mine do it and I have 2 that will do it anytime for any reason, just a really high food drive. I just try to move slowly when I'm in front of those specific cages as it seems moving by quickly is much more likely for them to strike out at. The worst thing I've had happen in almost 20 years of keeping boas is a lip getting caught on a tooth (with the help of my bf we pulled the lip back off the tooth and she was fine). These are boas that are not aggressive/defensive otherwise as well, as soon as I open the door and boop them with the hook, they are fine.

Everything you seem to be doing seems fine.some boas are more food orientated than others there’s only my old female and Medusa (img) that still strikes at the glass now and then , but more if I’m defrosting rats in the room for the others and go to one of the vivs underneath medusa as she is on top,90% of the time she watches you from her shelf every move you make,lol
Most are at the glass of im m defrosting as well but I just slide and tap the with my hand if there’s no food but with the hook if I’m defrosting just to show it’s not for them and just lift them out
My snakes are in a room where the natural light is there light most of the day bit on dull days they have there led strip light on I feed all mine in the light ,except my male Bcl who will only eat in the dark and drop feed,he never strikes,
Hope all your hard work pays off, should do


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Thank you AbsoluteApril and Richardhind1972!

Yeah, I am not worrying about her becoming aggressive. Again, she's a total puppy dog when being handled. I just think she has a hyper food drive, which is a good thing. Just ask Shayna, my BP, who didn't eat for 5 months this winter!

I just wanted to avoid her getting hurt and make sure it was food driven. I don't want to scare her and that's why she is acting that way. Wait, scare Behira? She barely uses her hides! What am I thinking! She's a pretty bold little sweetheart, with a killer food response. That's all.

However, she already had one bent tooth from missing a rat and hitting the acrylic door, or her a hide. That took care of itself though.

I'll just keep chugging and handling her regularly. Funny, handling usually involves watching TV and her falling asleep on my chest. I may have mentioned, but I think I am the Boa Whisperer.

Katie holds and she is all over the place, nonstop! Me, she falls asleep.

Most of mine just sit and chill with me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Most of mine just sit and chill with me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Lol :).

You must be a Boa Whisperer too!

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Originally Posted by dakski

I love Behira!

She ate tonight. Hadn't eaten in two weeks, which is her schedule now that she is on small rats and weighs 690G empty.

So I put the defrosted and warm F/T rat on tongs, dangle in front of her for a little, and nothing. She looked interested, but didn't strike right away.

So, I did what I have done in the past, put it down in front of her.

She spent 1/2 an hour watching me feed everyone else, looking out the front of her tank, sniffing the air and even the rat, etc.

Finally, she bit into the rat, got really excited, half struck while biting it, bit harder, and coiled it! This time she didn't coil for, seemingly, ever, and started chowing down quickly.

She's a goof, but I love her. Nice to have another snake who happily eats even when I don't shake it for a while to elicit a strike.

My BP, Shayna is so shy, she almost never strikes, and wants the rat put down, and me to walk away. Figment, my corn snake, could care less. If I shake for 1 second, he strikes, if I drop it in, he strikes, etc. He eats anything anytime!

Anyway, very happy she is eating regularly (which she always has) and seems happy. She is really settled in now.

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It doesn't surprise me she wants to eat every 2 weeks, all my boas on smalls eat every 3 weeks (though they'd eat more often if I let them).

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Originally Posted by dakski

Okay, quick question, for the BCI/snake behavior experts out there.

I have been hook training Behira for about 3 weeks now, and that is going great.

I feed her at night with tank lights, and most room lights, off, so it's pretty dark.

During the day/lights on is when I handle. Her lights are on from 9AM-9PM, give or take a few minutes.

Lately, when I walk by the tank at night, she looks ready to strike/in hunt mode. She hasn't struck the front of the tank yet, but I wouldn't put it past her.

I don't want her to get hurt, and I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but should I be doing something differently?

I always feed my snakes in near darkness/at night so they associate light with being handled. However, I have never had as aggressive a feeder as Behira. Even Figment, my corn snake, looks for food at night, but isn't ready to strike until he smells mouse. He does go completely APE once he is sure it's feeding time though.

A couple other things.

I only go by the tanks at night if I need to feed the geckos or it's snake feeding day. Otherwise everyone is left alone in the 5 tank stack (the tanks in the corner of my finished basement in a little nook so they do not get bothered unless I need to do something with them/the animals). Last night I fed the Gecko's and as soon as I walked by, she was out of her hide and in S/strike mode.

Behira eats every 2 weeks, on Sunday, a small rat. She was 690G empty before last feeding (this past Sunday).

She is a total puppy dog once stroked with the soft end of the hook, and completely mellow once picked up! Total sweetheart.

Thank you for any and all thoughts!

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So long as she isn't actually striking, I likely wouldn't worry. My boas sometimes go through periods like this, I assume it's just them needing a little extra food. Depending on their body tone, I either increase feeding frequency by a week until the behavior stops, or I just wait them out. If they're of good body tone, and I'm not breeding, they eventually snap out of the mood after a few weeks or a couple of months.

I also don't feed my snakes at any set time of the day, so I'm able to reach in whenever I want without a feeding response, though I'm not sure how much it would affect them if I did feed them at the same time every feeding day, as I've never been able to stick to such strict schedules with anything in my life. lmao

Her weight, feeder size, and frequency seems pretty good, so it's doubtful she's starving, I'd probably just wait and see if she stops. If she begins striking at the glass, or her weight gain plateaus over 2-3 months time, then I'd try feeding her weekly for a short period to see if that helps. I wouldn't make it her regular schedule, though, snakes just seem to go through periods of heightened or lowered feed response.

Behira left me a really nice, and big, present last night (I found today).

I weighed her empty, and she is now 715G.

It seems she is putting about 30% of every meal towards growth. Again, feeding small rats every other week (every 2 Sundays).

She is doing great with the hook training and everything seems to be going really well.

I couldn't be happier.

One other quick thing to add.

Behira has not been overly interested/aggressive when I walk by at night the past week. It seems close to feeding day (soon after a meal when it's still on her mind), or if I recently fed someone else, she is a little more interested in what I am doing. am

I'll advise if she ever strikes at the front of the enclosure, but she seems to have relaxed a little bit in that regard.

Behira is doing well, and looking forward to eating tomorrow (I am sure). The hook training continues to go great and she relaxes more once she sees/get touched by the hook handle. I am getting better at reading her, and that's helping too.

It's been over a month since the food response bite, and I am very optimistic. Katie is beginning to believe in Behira again as well. She has held her sporadically since the bite (to be clear - Behira nailed me, not Katie), but not for long (she has continued to spend time with Shayna, Figment, Frank the BTS, and the LG's). I take Behira out 4-6 days a week, even if it's for a short handling session, to continue to build trust and reinforce the hook training. She does not get stressed at all being handled and sometimes I'll hold her for 1/2 an hour watching TV and/or chilling out. Of all the snakes I have had, she does the absolute best staying calm and seemingly enjoys being handled and exploring! Shayna (my adult female BP) stays calm, but after 10-15 minutes, you can tell she wants back in her enclosure and in a hide! Figment (my corn) is so active, I think he just wears himself out after 10 minutes or so. Not so much stress as exhaustion!

Anyway, I had Behira out tonight and Katie held her for an entire TV show! They did some bonding and had some girl time. Behira has always liked Katie, although she likes to explore a lot with her and is more chill with me. She especially loves Katie's hair! Katie is good at redirecting her, but recently, the feeling of admiration was not completely mutual. I am so happy that Katie had a wonderful time with Behira tonight and really seemed to enjoy her.

She even did a photoshoot with her (excuse Katie's silly faces, she was having a great time).

Without further ado, here are two of my beautiful ladies (I don't want to leave out Shayna, the LG's, or Big Bailey Dog)!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/img_4163.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/img_4165.jpg

Glad to see Katie enjoying playtime as much as Behira! :)

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Glad to see Katie enjoying playtime as much as Behira! :)

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Me too :). Such a relief!

I was nervous for a while and got a lot of push back initially when I asked how she felt about Behira now and/or asked her to hold her. I basically left it alone for a while and continued to handle Behira, often when Katie was around. Sometimes it's better to leave things be. In this case, it worked, and they are good buddies again!

As I have mentioned, I understand Katie's hesitancy. She literally had never touched a reptile until she met me in 2016. 8 months ago I moved in and took over her basement with tanks, and added 2 dogs for a total of 5! I know it was overwhelming for Katie, even though she wanted me to move in, menagerie and all.

In October, Behira came home to live with us and in December, 13 boxes arrived from Boaphile (the 6X2's ship as 2 3X2's and then are bolted together, plus stands, and thermostats, etc.)! That really worked out well though, because I had tanks all over part of the finished basement. Katie was really happy we were able to stack tanks and get some room back! I like that, but am just incredibly happy with the tanks and how much easier they are to maintain proper temps and humidity.

Then, after telling Katie, in years of keeping reptiles (mostly snakes), that I was only bitten once (by a BP baby in 1990 and it was totally my fault), Behira nails me hoping for dinner. Katie didn't see the bite, but saw the blood :(. It fed into all her previous fears about reptiles (her parents are not keen on them at all - but even though they do not understand, appreciate that I like them, and Katie's dad even helped me set up the tanks).

In any event, I am really happy Katie has embraced me, my dogs, and my reptiles! I couldn't be happier!

Really glad Katie is starting to trust her again.it does take some getting used again,just keep up the hard work,
My wife won’t go in the snake room still after all these years except to possibly shut the window if she has put the heating on,
We are in Egypt at the moment and the was a cobra show on the hotel and she asked if my boas would get that pissed off if I was in there face ,I said probably but wouldn’t do that and they also wouldn’t hood up,on of the cobras was around 7ft the other was about 3ft really don’t know how he dare

Anyway keep up the good work


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by richardhind1972

Really glad Katie is starting to trust her again.it does take some getting used again,just keep up the hard work,
My wife won’t go in the snake room still after all these years except to possibly shut the window if she has put the heating on,
We are in Egypt at the moment and the was a cobra show on the hotel and she asked if my boas would get that pissed off if I was in there face ,I said probably but wouldn’t do that and they also wouldn’t hood up,on of the cobras was around 7ft the other was about 3ft really don’t know how he dare

Anyway keep up the good work


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Thank you! Yeah, I think Behira is going be just fine with us for a long time!

Too funny that your wife won't go in the snake room! Very good she supports your passion though!

Enjoy Egypt! Oh, and avoid the Cobras, if you can. I think their bite might be a little worse than a BCI ;).

I would advise against handling her that much, 2-3 times a week is a good maximum. If you handle them too often, it stresses them out, even if you can’t see it. Of course, there’s no set line for what is too much, but you definitely don’t want to be handling them nearly every day. If she’s docile, she’ll remain docile, but a defensive snake will act in much the same way a dog with learned helplessness would. By overhandling, you’re telling her that nothing is on her terms, she has no escape, and she will effectively “shut down” to deal with it. Any defensiveness will resume if they go without being handled, and may actually become more defensive later on. I actually don’t handle my snakes more than a couple times a month, which is still enough to reduce feeding responses when handling or defensive behaviors. If a snake doesn’t come around, I simply cater my handling to them, I don’t really believe in handling a snake into docility, it seems a little cruel. If they’re meant to be handled, they will take to handling. If all you’re worried about is a feeding strike, your hook should be more than enough to snap her out of it.

It’s good Katie is coming around! A bite from a boa really isn’t very bad, and it seems like Behira just made a mistake once, so it would have been a shame if that had caused a permanent falling out. :(


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Behira nailed a 60G F/T rat yesterday. Might be a tiny bit on the small side for her now, but rather that then too big. I have another 60-70G small rat and then some 70-80G small rats left in this bag. I'll feed them smallest to largest.

However, I fed figment his mouse first, and when I brought it in (soaking in hot water), and walked by Behira's tank (she's the second one down of 5 and Figment is the bottom) she struck the front of the tank, only once, but still. I don't know if she smelled it, or just knew it was food time, but either way, she bent a front tooth this time.

Ugh.

Doesn't seem to bother her and the last one fell out on it's own. I am going to see if it falls out next feeding, like the last one did. I can see it when I look in the tank, but since she just ate, I am not going to take her out to inspect until at least tomorrow.

Needless to say I didn't offer the rat long before she was all over it.

I usually feed Figment, Behira, and then Shayna. From now on, I am going to feed Behira first, then Figment, then Shayna. Maybe avoid needless strikes at acrylic!

Glad she is happy and eating; bent teeth and all!

Sorry that you are going through this, I know how upsetting it can be.

If I’m feeding multiple snakes on the same feeding day as Punch, my big Boa, I always feed him first and as quickly as possible. He slams the glass so hard his mouth is all twisted, contorted, and he is stunned as well. Then I have to wait for him to adjust and realign it before I can feed him.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2b4fab3ec5.jpg
Punch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Sorry that you are going through this, I know how upsetting it can be.

If I’m feeding multiple snakes on the same feeding day as Punch, my big Boa, I always feed him first and as quickly as possible. He slams the glass so hard his mouth is all twisted, contorted, and he is stunned as well. Then I have to wait for him to adjust and realign it before I can feed him.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2b4fab3ec5.jpg
Punch

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Ugh. Well at least I am not alone.

More worried about when she is older and bigger and only eats every other time I feed Shayna and Figment.

I dont like the idea of feeding everyone else and not her, but still need to keep her healthy.

We will see.

Thanks for sharing Reinz.

Okay, so new turn of events. I am getting a little concerned, but also have a potential solution for when it's feeding day for everyone else and not Behira.

I had to spray a little water into Shayna's tank tonight (still dry here in the winter and difficult to get over 65% for a good shed without a spray of warm water every couple of days, or more). The tanks lights for everyone were out (all on the same timer), however I did turn the light on in the reptile area (it's a lamp).

Behira was out looking around and as soon as walked by, BAM - hit the acrylic. She did it two or three times.

I am worried about her doing this and getting hurt. She's only 715G now, but as she gets bigger, she could probably do more damage. It also makes me a little nervous. I have been hook training, but this food response is crazy, assuming that's what it is. She ate yesterday, so maybe it's still on her brain?

Anyway, I didn't want her to get hurt, so I carefully opened the tank door on the other side (it's a 6X2' so there are two 2 1/2 foot or so doors) as she was on the middle right of the tank. I rubbed her a few times with the hook handle and she calmed down and didn't strike either the hook, or the tank anymore. She seemed to understand that it wasn't feeding time. I wasn't going to pick her up, because she still seemed a little revved up, ate yesterday, and I always handle during the day, with lights on.

I have never had a snake strike the tank doors/acrylic like this before. Behira is only going to get bigger and potentially hurt herself more and potentially worry me more.

Any thoughts? I am at a loss for ideas.

When she gets like that, should I use the hook and then pick her up? Should I start feeding at different times so she doesn't expect it at night? She has never struck the doors during the day, although she nailed me with the lights on. Should I handle her at night as well/take her out with the lights out so she doesn't associate lights out with food every time? Or, is this just when she gets into hunt mode?

Finally, I plan to cover her tank doors with printless newspaper (I use it for substrate too) the day of feeding when it's not her turn to eat. That should help prevent food striking while I feed the other guys.

Thank you all again. I know I have touched on this before, but I continue be concerned, if not more so now. Not panicking or anything, but it's bothering me.

Boas can be strikers, that's just how it goes. If you want to try to diminish the frequency, you may need to hang a sheet or something in front of the cage from here on out if it bothers you. I think I mentioned earlier(?) walk by/do anything in front of the cage realllly slowly, like slow mo, they usually won't strike when I do that (just sit in the 's' position watching you very intently lol). Some are more prone doing this than others and it's most likely not something you can break them of. She may not do it as much once she's fully mature and doesn't feel like she needs to feed to grow but no guarantee. And yes, boas can stay in feed-mode for a long time. Been keeping boas for a while now and have hardly ever had anyone get injured, a tooth through a lip is about as bad as it's gotten for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Boas can be strikers, that's just how it goes. If you want to try to diminish the frequency, you may need to hang a sheet or something in front of the cage from here on out if it bothers you. I think I mentioned earlier(?) walk by/do anything in front of the cage realllly slowly, like slow mo, they usually won't strike when I do that (just sit in the 's' position watching you very intently lol). Some are more prone doing this than others and it's most likely not something you can break them of. She may not do it as much once she's fully mature and doesn't feel like she needs to feed to grow but no guarantee. And yes, boas can stay in feed-mode for a long time. Been keeping boas for a while now and have hardly ever had anyone get injured, a tooth through a lip is about as bad as it's gotten for me.

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Thank you AbsoluteApril.

It makes a lot of sense to cover the tank unless I am going to take her out or feed.

To be clear, you think this is totally a feeding response though and not her being aggressive? I do not think it's the latter at all as she is always a puppy dog once she it taken out and even after being touched with the hook now. Don't really feel like getting nailed, even if it's by accident, when she is a big girl though. Well, hence the hook training, right?

Also, even in strike mode and having struck the doors 2-3 times, she calmed right down when I touched her with the hook.

Thank you again!

I appreciate the feedback and, pardon the expression, snappy response!

I would think covering it is a good idea, and like AbsoluteApril mentioned, don’t move quickly in front of them. Even the most collected boa could strike whether in surprise or feeding response. If she’s on the floor, consider raising her up onto a table or something, to reduce any vibrations she may feel.

Since she’s already hook trained, I would reinforce that association by picking her up after you use it. If she seems to be backing off when you use the hook, then she should be out of feed mode and ok to handle. It sounds like she’s generally not bitey while handling, and I’ve noticed a lot of boas are like that. They may be defensive or food oriented in their enclosure, but are then fine once taken out. Just a weird quirk of theirs. I’ve noticed with mine, they may also be a little zoned in in the hopes of food or in nervousness, but generally don’t go much beyond that. That sort of awareness is what made boas stand out for me, they act a lot different than a lot of ball pythons. I’ve gotten so used to being around them, I didn’t even realize how off putting it can be for some keepers (add onto that every species I’ve owned besides my bp have been like this so I just took it for granted that was the way the average snake was). As you get used to it, it shouldn’t worry you so much, especially if she keeps her generally calm demeanor. Despite their jerky tendencies and constant tracking, I can count on one hand how many of the 6 boa constrictors I’ve had over the last 7 years have actually bitten me, and even with the other 8 species I’ve owned in the past 11 years, it still fits on two hands. They’re more bark than bite, so long as you move slow and don’t overstep boundaries.


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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I would think covering it is a good idea, and like AbsoluteApril mentioned, don’t move quickly in front of them. Even the most collected boa could strike whether in surprise or feeding response. If she’s on the floor, consider raising her up onto a table or something, to reduce any vibrations she may feel.

Since she’s already hook trained, I would reinforce that association by picking her up after you use it. If she seems to be backing off when you use the hook, then she should be out of feed mode and ok to handle. It sounds like she’s generally not bitey while handling, and I’ve noticed a lot of boas are like that. They may be defensive or food oriented in their enclosure, but are then fine once taken out. Just a weird quirk of theirs. I’ve noticed with mine, they may also be a little zoned in in the hopes of food or in nervousness, but generally don’t go much beyond that. That sort of awareness is what made boas stand out for me, they act a lot different than a lot of ball pythons. I’ve gotten so used to being around them, I didn’t even realize how off putting it can be for some keepers (add onto that every species I’ve owned besides my bp have been like this so I just took it for granted that was the way the average snake was). As you get used to it, it shouldn’t worry you so much, especially if she keeps her generally calm demeanor. Despite their jerky tendencies and constant tracking, I can count on one hand how many of the 6 boa constrictors I’ve had over the last 7 years have actually bitten me, and even with the other 8 species I’ve owned in the past 11 years, it still fits on two hands. They’re more bark than bite, so long as you move slow and don’t overstep boundaries.


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Thanks, as always, CloudtheBoa.

I am getting drapes and a rod to hold them up and will keep her tank covered unless feeding or handling. Hope to do that this week. Been crazy here with weather and cleaning out my old house which closes Friday!

Good point with the hook - if I use - take her out.

I spoke to Jeff Ronne at Boaphile today. He made my tanks and really knows Boas. He said the same thing. Cover and continue to use the hook. He said some of his Boa's are like this, but has no bearing on how they are when being handled.

I took Behira out tonight (after leaving her alone for 3 days to eat and digest). She was calm as can be. She is one of the gentlest and bravest/least scared easily snakes I have ever handled. Total puppy dog. As usual!

It's like I have two snakes sometimes. Dr. Behira and Mrs. Hyde! When food isn't involved and she knows she isn't getting fed, she is the most wonderful, calm, and confident animal.

I am not having second thoughts or anything. I adore her. I just wanted some advice on keeping her from nailing the tank front so much.

Thank you again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

I appreciate the feedback and, pardon the expression, snappy response!

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worth it for the pun alone lol and I don't usually enjoy puns

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

They may be defensive or food oriented in their enclosure, but are then fine once taken out.

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I totally agree and this is how my boas are as well.
The only 'aggressive' boas I've dealt with are females that just gave birth. Boas generally are defensive or foody more than aggressive.

I had an idea for how to cover Behira's tank so she wouldn't strike at movement at night. However, I had no idea how to implement it.

I was going to go to Michael's, but Katie suggested Joann Fabrics. I had never been there (I just discovered Michael's 2 years ago for Pete's sake) and Katie wanted to go with me.

WOW. Katie knows her stuff and turned my idea into a reality. No way I could have done this on my own.

20 minutes at Joann Fabrics, $60, and 1/2 hour of Katie's handy work, and BOOM! Problem solved.

Behira's tank is 1 down from the top and now has a black drape/fabric covering it.


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...hira_drape.jpg


I do not have the hooks holding the pole and drape (which is very light and easily removed and also slides on the pole so I can open one side easily) flush with the tanks. I have them out about 1/2 an inch so the tank can breath and temps won't be affected.

This should definitely reduce or stop Behira striking at the acrylic when she's thinking about food. Still have to be careful on feeding day, but I plan to feed her first now.

Behira doesn't seem to mind the fabric being up and Katie was happy to help and did a great job.

Awesome all around.

Can also try moving the height of the cage by shifting it in the stack. Louie my BCL would strike the door any time i walked by when i had it lower on the stack. Once i moved him up higher, he quit. I guess the whole idea of being low and some larger thing walking by scared him. Rango has also struck the cage door a couple times but only on feed day when i am thawing rats. He curled his lower lip but after i gave him dinner, his lip went back to normal. You can cover the door but personally, i would just leave it and like i said, either move them up on the stack or start walking more slowly by the cages until the snake gets used to the movement.

Luna also used to strike the cage door and coil up when she was on the bottom of the stack when i moved her from her quarantine tank to one of the AP cages. After about a week, she quit doing it and now is completely oblivious and you can literally stomp past her cage and she just sits there. The snakes need to get used the surroundings. Covering them up will not help as when they get bigger and you uncover them, they will be scared of the open space and being larger, their strikes can hurt themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Can also try moving the height of the cage by shifting it in the stack. Louie my BCL would strike the door any time i walked by when i had it lower on the stack. Once i moved him up higher, he quit. I guess the whole idea of being low and some larger thing walking by scared him. Rango has also struck the cage door a couple times but only on feed day when i am thawing rats. He curled his lower lip but after i gave him dinner, his lip went back to normal. You can cover the door but personally, i would just leave it and like i said, either move them up on the stack or start walking more slowly by the cages until the snake gets used to the movement.

Luna also used to strike the cage door and coil up when she was on the bottom of the stack when i moved her from her quarantine tank to one of the AP cages. After about a week, she quit doing it and now is completely oblivious and you can literally stomp past her cage and she just sits there. The snakes need to get used the surroundings. Covering them up will not help as when they get bigger and you uncover them, they will be scared of the open space and being larger, their strikes can hurt themselves.

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Sauzo,

Behira is the second one down from the top (Frank the BTS is the top cage), so she is about 4-5 Feet up in the stack.

Secondly, she seems totally chill now with the fabric/drape in front. I took it off today to measure temps and she came and said hi, then went back into her house. No fanfare at all.

I get where you are going with this, but she has already bent teeth striking at the acrylic. I have talked to breeders and they are not sure she will "get used to it," and this may be her thing. Some have said she might outgrow it, but no way to know. When I spoke to Jeff Ronne, from Boaphile (he made my tanks and is always helpful, but I did not buy Behira from him), he said that some Boa's do it, and he thought the drape was a good solution.

How is this significantly different than people who keep Boa's in big racks/Tubs? It seems like those are pretty secure until you open them, and I would be doing the same thing with her, taking the drape off and opening the tank.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just curious what your thought process/experience is with Boa's who do this and why my setup makes you nervous (for me).

I appreciate any feedback, as always.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

Sauzo,

Behira is the second one down from the top (Frank the BTS is the top cage), so she is about 4-5 Feet up in the stack.

Secondly, she seems totally chill now with the fabric/drape in front. I took it off today to measure temps and she came and said hi, then went back into her house. No fanfare at all.

I get where you are going with this, but she has already bent teeth striking at the acrylic. I have talked to breeders and they are not sure she will "get used to it," and this may be her thing. Some have said she might outgrow it, but no way to know. When I spoke to Jeff Ronne, from Boaphile (he made my tanks and is always helpful, but I did not buy Behira from him), he said that some Boa's do it, and he thought the drape was a good solution.

How is this significantly different than people who keep Boa's in big racks/Tubs? It seems like those are pretty secure until you open them, and I would be doing the same thing with her, taking the drape off and opening the tank.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just curious what your thought process/experience is with Boa's who do this and why my setup makes you nervous (for me).

I appreciate any feedback, as always.

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Your set up doesnt make nervous. You might have misunderstood me. I was referring the the boa being nervous. Like i said, my dumerils and BCL both struck at the cage doors when i would walk by quick when i first put them in their cages and had them on the lower cahes in the stack. But after a week and me walking slowly past them, they got used to it and dont do it anymore and the dumerils is pretty oblivious now to any movement unless it involves food.

If the drape worked, then grats. I'm a little different in that i try and get my snakes adjusted to how the cage will be instead of changing it and then going back to the same set up that started the issue after awhile. I believe as long as you give the snakes a place they can feel secure and retire to to be alone, then they will get used to the rest of the set up. That is why i always provide at least one hide for all my snakes regardless if they use it or not.

Also I'm assuming you have the snake in a boaphile. Like i said, if the drape method works, great. But to me, having to cover my snakes whenever I'm not doing something inside the cage defeats the purpose of even having the snake lol. I like to interact and look at my snakes and i usually interact with them daily be it just changing water or just opening the cage to look for a poop or piss and just petting them. They mostly seem to care less but Caesar is my one exception who seems to actually push when he wants attention and once he gets his fill, he will quiet down and lay there.

Anyways, like i said, if the drape works, grats. Gotta do what works. Some boas are just weird haha.

Behira is doing awesome. Since I put the drape up, there has been no striking at the doors and she seems pretty chill. She ate Sunday, so I don't have good weight on her, but she's looking good and fit if I can say so.

Terrible lighting and iPhone picture, but she looks very dapper and healthy to me. I felt like sharing.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...foot_stool.jpg

Behira is in Blue and is quite dark as she will shed very soon.

I had Katie hold her for a minute while I changed water and upped humidity. Behira is sooooooo incredibly chill, even in blue. Touched her with the hook handle and scooped her up. No issues.

We have had Behira 6 months next week. She was about 450G when we got her and was 715G before last feeding (almost 2 weeks ago). I imagine she will drop a nice present with her shed and then I will feed her soon after.

I found a picture from my phone from October when we got Behira and tonight and she is noticeably bigger. Also, notice Katie's cool Snake Charm Necklace I got her in the first picture!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...atie_10-17.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...katie_4-18.jpg

It’s good to see your mate involved in your passion for snakes. :)

Behira looks like a nice healthy Boa, and a nice bonus having such a fine disposition.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

It’s good to see your mate involved in your passion for snakes. :)

Behira looks like a nice healthy Boa, and a nice bonus having such a fine disposition.

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Thank you Reinz. It's awesome that Katie is involved with them, especially since she had no prior reptile experience before meeting me! I still do most of the heavy lifting (cleaning, temp and humidity management, etc), but it's great that she likes them so much.

Behira really is the bravest and sweetest snake I have met. No issues as long as she doesn't think I am food! Seriously, love her curiosity and calmness. She's an awesome animal. Can't wait to watch her grow.

Looking good! Really nice body structure. I'm glad the drape is helping too.
I wouldn't let a boa get anywhere near a dog or vice versa though. Definitely don't allow a full grown boa near a small dog. Better safe than sorry.

She's looking good, and glad to hear her striking habits have cleared up. :D

Behira shed Sunday and nailed and gobbled down a small rat (F/T) Monday.

Took her out today for some R&R. She's noticeably bigger than when I got her. Still puppy dog tame and adventurous and curious as ever.

Behira after shed 11-6-17 (464G)

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/img_0870.jpg

Behira today (4-11-18) after shed (estimated 750G+ - waiting for poop)

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...750g_or_so.jpg


Behira 1-7-18 (640G)

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../3/3/small.jpg

Behira today

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._-_4-11-18.jpg