When is it okay to demand a refund?

Chill Red. No need to freak out. The guy needs to make things right.

I understand why you want the review removed, because you still hold out hope for a refund. And it sure would be nice to get it.

However, it makes me mad that he is holding that over you, is he for real? Even if you do get a refund in the long run, he deserves all the bad publicity he should get over this deal.
He shouldn't make any rules, what a ..... ! Thank you for letting us know about him.

I WILL eventually be looking for cages and racks, and he is in my state, but I wouldn't buy a cockroach from him.

Good luck getting your refund back, keep us up to date..

I was patiently waiting for Zina to ride over there on her horse and see what was up. Things are going to work out. I had a deal awhile back that went south quick. I told the guy I was going to put his name on this board and he had a quick attitude change.

This leaves such a bad feeling in my stomach... also, hard to chill when someone is threatening you! LOL

MODS/ADMINS: is there a way to move this thread to private or quarantine? so that only members can see it?

You are in CA. He is in Alabama. No worries. Hopefully the mods can move the thread if you are that concerned. If it goes to quarantine I know I can't see it, so no one else would know this guy is a ....

Doesn't look like there are any mods around right now. We need a few more I think.

I would NOT be chill if I found out that someone had scammed me and was stringing me along when I had initially trusted them. In fact, someone telling me to chill would make me even more frustrated lol

Someone move this to the quarantine please so it can't be read by non-members. Red doesn't need this guy getting more dirt on her.

I'm going to "Report the post" hopefully someone will get a notification


Reported.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I was patiently waiting for Zina to ride over there on her horse and see what was up. Things are going to work out. I had a deal awhile back that went south quick. I told the guy I was going to put his name on this board and he had a quick attitude change.

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No kidding. If I can't stand one thing, its .............. like that guy. To put poor Red through all this crap, and now holding this over her, when he deserves that and more. How dare he think he can now "make rules" up whether she should get the refund or not.

She should get a refund based on his crappy business, based on how he jerked her around, based on his lies, but now he makes it depending on someone removing a review? I'm sure Sully will. Not because it is a wrong review, but to help out Red.

Not that I think that will necessarily get her her refund. That guy is a crook and a bully. But for now she can play by his rules.

That makes me plenty mad, self righteous bully and crook he is !!!!!!!!


Red, please calm down, easier said then done, I know, but you did nothing wrong. Sully will remove that review. But that guy will probably come up with more excuses. No need to move that thread either. All you said in here is the truth. Who could get mad about that ?? He better not, what is he going to do? Withhold your refund because you asked for advice since he is scamming you ?? He will either do the right thing or he will not. I think he is just trying to find stuff to hold over you. Has he told you the truth yet? He had the tracking and knew the cage was coming. No reason there to withhold the refund. Paypal locked account and all the other stuff was just BS too.

Hmmmm, Someone named zina + horse + one of my katana + little leather outfit = Zina Warrior Princess.
ROFL. Sorry, I'm probably the only one that thinks this warped. Just couldn't let it go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Hmmmm, Someone named zina + horse + one of my katana + little leather outfit = Zina Warrior Princess.
ROFL. Sorry, I'm probably the only one that thinks this warped. Just couldn't let it go.

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I like leather. LOL. Leather saddles, leather boots. Not so sure about a leather outfit, but hey...

a leather bull whip may be whats needed here !! LOL

edited to say: Red, just breathe. It will be ok. I don't think its really up to you whether you get a refund. He is just making excuses. I still hope you will get it, but once again, nothing wrong was done by anyone other then that guy.

This has now been moved to the quarantine room.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

OMG Sully please remove the review from his page.... I knew I shouldnt have disclosed this info yet

PLEASE DONT LEAVE A BAD REVIEW YET, ANYMORE!!! I won't get my refund until he sees zero bad reviews.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...mx%2Fimage.jpg

Zina I still happen to have the call number for fedex, and they told me it is out for delivery today. So I guess there is one truth to this whole thing.

And if anyone knows Mr Sully in real life, please tell him to come online and delete the review!

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Its not my business so i'll remove it but this is why your getting played. He is a scumbag and he is pulling your strings and your listening to him. Id tell that crook the review will get deleted when you get your refund... It will only be 4/5 months. Who does that bald idiot think he is ripping off young people. Id slap him silly.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Its not my business so i'll remove it but this is why your getting played. He is a scumbag and he is pulling your strings and your listening to him. Id tell that crook the review will get deleted when you get your refund... It will only be 4/5 months. Who does that bald idiot think he is ripping off young people. Id slap him silly.


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So this is proof he is Black Mailing you about your refund. You better learn from all this and learn not to let people control you as none of this was your fault and the damage may not be his fault but if your in business whether part time or full time the money you receive is not yours until the transaction is completed. He's a fly by night and has no business ethics.


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Did you make the post on Facebook in the "FBI - Feedback and Inquiries For Reptiles" group or was that a different dissatisfied customer?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Did you make the post on Facebook in the "FBI - Feedback and Inquiries For Reptiles" group or was that a different dissatisfied customer?

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There are a couple of different ones, don't think either one is Red.

In one he says he "replaces broken merchandise without asking for it back". Right.

He is quite defensive on there and VERY responsive. Out of respect for Red I won't say anything on those threads, its not my place.
But what a tool !!!

Red definitely should have posted there, seems like that is the only way he fixes anything. He makes himself out to be so good, always taking care of any problem. Yet here he is bullying young ladies, holding her refund hostage because of someone calling him out, etc.

I would love for all that to be known where he tries to make himself look so proper!!

But that is up to Red :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Did you make the post on Facebook in the "FBI - Feedback and Inquiries For Reptiles" group or was that a different dissatisfied customer?

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Not sure if were talking about the same thing but there are "Reviews" on his FB page OUTLAW EXOTICS. One if them is mine. There was a girls review earlier today "Jen" and its sense been removed. He is contacting people like the OP and telling her she wont get refunded unless reviews are removed. He's a lier, its been months and the whole transaction was not as he said it would be to begin with. I looked at a 5 star review he has without a comment and its his FB friend hahahaha
On a side note whats up with the brackets he uses inside his enclosures to hold the PVC together.. What garbage for almost twice what AP charges. I really wish people would take the advice they have asked for on Forums. People go out of their way to try and share good info then they do the opposite and wonder why they got the short end if the stick...[emoji85][emoji86][emoji86]


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I think he is talking about something else. There is a "FBI - Feedback and Inquiries For Reptiles" facebook page. There is a post about that guy almost on top, and a couple more if using the search..

But neither is made by Red from what it appears. He probably scares most unsatisfied customers into NOT posting about his crap!! By holding their refund or replacement hostage...

I wouldn't plan on getting a refund or product.
Either way, you are doing a good service to the community for making him known.
There are way too many scammers in this hobby.
They see it as easy because almost every deal done is not face to face.
You might try calling his local police department or attorney general.

KEEP ALL contacts with him.

If nothing is forth coming I would definitely post about the entire sorry thing on that FBI facebook page (and others)

He is on there as recently as a day ago, defending himself, talking about how he is only human and makes everything right as soon as it happens. I would love to see his reply (and what the others say) when Red's story would be on there. He sure would be squirming.

They are talking about on there how reputation is everything, and customer service, and he goes on trying to make himself sound so reasonable...

Its really something.

As of now, I truly believe Red would stand MORE chance of getting a refund by posting there, esp. now with the other thread fresh, then she does by letting him bully her to follow his "rules".

But it is still just up to her what to do. And I wish her the best outcome..

Hi guys, for some reason I couldn't access the thread while it was in quarantine, so I asked Deborah to move it back to public. I'm not betting on getting my refund back now, so I'll take it as a lesson learned. Or maybe when he gets enough backlash for this situation, he might refund me "when he receives the broken cage", as he says...

I've posted all screenshots of our convos from the very beginning to end on my blog (some might be out of order, not sure) for reference, so I don't lose it and other people can save the pics: http://dogsignalfire.tumblr.com/

Here are some of the specific screenshots where he threatens me with not refunding my cage if the bad reviews aren't removed.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso1_1280.png

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso2_1280.png


And here... just amazing. lol

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso4_1280.png

Oh I just saw the thread in that FBI reptiles group. I'll add something there too! (My name is Fiona)

Moved back on the main forum per member request

I posted on the FBI reptile page now... I'm not sure if I provided enough information, so please let me know what I should be adding, or anybody feel free to add screenshots that I've posted on my blog there (since those screenshots include his name) as you feel fit. I won't be offended or anything at all!

Expect to be asked to post the whole conversation. Also if there are any naughty words you'd have to bleep them out of your screenshots.

You did the right thing.

You have been beyond patient and waited a LOT longer then most people would have. You have been a lot NICER then most people would have.
You have done absolutely nothing wrong. Not during the transaction, not here, not by finally posting.

Let the chips fall as they may now, but I honestly think you have a BIGGER chance of a refund now, then you did before. The more he thought he could bully you and hold you off with BS excuses, the more he was going to do it...

If nothing else, by standing up for yourself you will feel better about yourself, and just think...you may have saved quite a few other people the same headache you had to go through.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Also if there are any naughty words you'd have to bleep them out of your screenshots.

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Here, yes. FB, no...... :D

I'm sorry you've been put through this. It's not right and he really shouldn't be in business if this is the type of shade he's going to pull.


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I really hope he doesn't comment making up more lies and excuses or something. I don't want to deal with the guy's excuses anymore and I don't want to talk to him anymore lol... I'll see about contacting his state's attorney general though. Do I just call and tell them about what happened?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I really hope he doesn't comment making up more lies and excuses or something. I don't want to deal with the guy's excuses anymore and I don't want to talk to him anymore lol... I'll see about contacting his state's attorney general though. Do I just call and tell them about what happened?

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What is he going to say? You have it all on black and white and in his own words. Those people won't take or believe any of his BS, trust me. The "worst" that can happen is that he has some friends show up to take up for him, and if that happens, they will get destroyed (in words). There is simply nothing he or they can do or say that changes anything about how wrong he did.

You did good on keeping everything. He might have thought you didn't, and it would be yours against his word. But you have everything. Good for you :)

Its usually best to have anything in "written form" and a letter sent. Find the proper address and "attn. to" and then send a letter. Send it with proof, like return receipt or registered. Keep it short, sweet and factual without leaving anything out.

Have you noticed that he has replied to another thread on that page (about his wrong doings) but not to yours? Even though he has been tagged several times?

Because he messed up big. He thought you were bluffing. But now it is all there to see how he tried to pressure and black mail you. I only now read his latest text messages to you, and THE NERVE of him. Wow.

Literally asking you to tell all people to remove their TRUTHFUL reviews or you can kiss your refund good bye.

Bad, bad move on his part. He is embarrassed. And he ought to be. He thought you were an easy victim to play and you stopped playing.

Thanks zina, I just hope nobody doubts me and I can get the refund and put it at rest... I'm so stressed by this whole thing haha. Maybe it wasn't obvious enough, but I hate conflict LOL...

Actually, yes, I could tell that very well.

Unfortunately, so could he. He thought you were an easy victim, because of it.

That is why I was so mad about it. You shouldn't be made to feel that way when you went out of your way for that crook. For him to literally blackmail you like this, seriously. What a "man", huh.

I know this is stressful. Even now you probably have knots in your belly. It will be over soon, though, one way or another. I don't see how he cannot refund you, based on his other blabbering. Unless he wants his business to be over. If you don't get a refund now, you would have never, ever gotten it anyway.

This way you at least stood up for yourself (and others). And while its stressful, you did a good thing. I do have a feeling you will get a refund.

After that, just put it aside and concentrate on better things. Just let it be a lesson for the future ;) I doubt this will happen to you again..


Think about russian ratsnakes ;) Third eye is going to have hatchlings in June, too ;) Here is something positive and exciting to think about ;)


edited to say: Yeah, I went a little smiley face happy, LOL

Zina, you're wonderful! I am excited about the russian rat snakes haha.

Oh my god the guy has appeared lol. He replied to pit's comment.

Did he completely miss the part that he was threatening to NOT refund me, even if the cage arrives, if those bad reviews are still there?

It's a circus now. We got clowns and everything.

Oh wow, this thread certainly escalated. Everyone has already said what has been needed to be said so I'm afraid I don't have anything useful to add, but holy geeze, Red I'm so sorry you have to deal with all this nonsense! It's just unbelievable how much this guy has tried to run circles around you, lied, threatened and guilted you. That's just...wow. You didn't deserve any of that :(

Wow, people are treating him so lightly in the FBI fb post, as if he just made a mistake while walking in the park. Lol. Oh well.

I wouldn't be surprised if he says "Can you delete this thread now? :) " and people go, "Okay :) "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Wow, people are treating him so lightly in the FBI fb post, as if he just made a mistake while walking in the park. Lol. Oh well.

I wouldn't be surprised if he says "Can you delete this thread now? :) " and people go, "Okay :) "

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That is not what I am seeing! He is getting roasted. It has to stay clean, but he certainly is not having it easy, either.

And there is no deleting this thread. Ever. Only you could do it and if you did, you would be banned for life. This is why this is working. He knows this is not going to go away. Ever. Unless you delete it.
They won't let up until he does this right or his business goes up in flames. He shouldn't have scammed and black mailed you . That is far worse then "just" shipping late or dragging a refund out.

This will happen, just have patience. People are trying to get you to get your refund. If he were hanged now, you wouldn't ...lol. I think once you get your refund, people will not let him live all this down easy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

That is not what I am seeing! He is getting roasted. It has to stay clean, but he certainly is not having it easy, either.

And there is no deleting this thread. Ever. Only you could do it and if you did, you would be banned for life. This is why this is working. He knows this is not going to go away. Ever. Unless you delete it.
They won't let up until he does this right or his business goes up in flames. He shouldn't have scammed and black mailed you . That is far worse then "just" shipping late or dragging a refund out.

This will happen, just have patience.

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It was just the couple comments after he said he will refund me when he gets the cage, and people just roll with it LOL.

Thank god it can't get deleted. Well, I am never deleting my post!

eta: also, me and a friend are talking about how awesome you are with the comments in the FBI group!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

It was just the couple comments after he said he will refund me when he gets the cage, and people just roll with it LOL.

Thank god it can't get deleted. Well, I am never deleting my post!

eta: also, me and a friend are talking about how awesome you are with the comments in the FBI group!

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I never could stand a bully. Its brings out the "German" in me, LOL

It actually takes a lot to get me truly riled up, but when I'm there ...:O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Wow, people are treating him so lightly in the FBI fb post, as if he just made a mistake while walking in the park. Lol. Oh well.

I wouldn't be surprised if he says "Can you delete this thread now? :) " and people go, "Okay :) "

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He has people now coming out of the woodwork about refunds and bad designed cages/racks. Even pictures they posted. This might be a Blessing your not getting that junk he is making hahaha. Ohh and As far as people treating him so lightly, you were one of them 8 hours ago until I lit a Fire under you hahahahaha JK. I hope I helped, all I know is that I have a Wife and 2 daughters and I hate it when some Goof Ball tries to pull one over on them so it hit home :)
Hope all works out but like I said, your better off without his enclosures for sure. I see 2 or 3 pics with screws poking through and crooked. Great combo to have snakes in something with sharp sheet rock screws sticking out all over not aligned correctly.
Go with the recommendations we all gave you 3 months ago next time hahahaha [emoji1360]


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I'll say two things here.

As a business owner you don't blow all the funds even for supplies when possible monetary refunds are still up in the air...you also don't base everything out of one paypal account...this guy deserves to never sell another enclosure again.

can someone PM me the link to where this is happening at lol, I'm at work and really can't do too much searching for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by predatorkeeper87

can someone PM me the link to where this is happening at lol, I'm at work and really can't do too much searching for it.

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rept...kandInquiries/

much appreciated sir.

I remember years ago - like 10 years or something crazy - I was in my early twenties, a young woman getting started in the hobby and I sent an item to the wrong person. They started a thread on me in the BOI, threatening me, demanding refunds, etc, etc. There was no email evidence where they had asked for a refund, they had received the animals just fine, and then a few days later there's a picture of an emaciated gecko claiming it was the one I sent them and I was a terrible keeper and owner, and needed to be avoided. It was a horrible experience, and being young and not understanding, I felt like a terrible person. I refunded their money, I was out the Paypal fee, an animal, and my money. It really did a number on my conscience and I stopped trading and selling except in person.

I'm a wee bit older now, and wee bit wiser, and I think you did exactly the right thing but putting this out where it can be seen. People like this should be exposed first thing... THEY need to make it right, and it's on THEM to protect their reputation, not you. Threatening and making excuses just proves the type of person they really are... anyone with stand up character would be falling over themselves to make it right. I, for one, would take out an advance on my credit card if I needed to make a customer happy with a mistake I made.

It's a learning experience all around.

my god that dude got shredded haha. His tune changed real quick when the FB mob grabbed his cajones hahaha.

I guess he got tired of the honesty... His page is private now.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kxr

I guess he got tired of the honesty... His page is private now.


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probably in survival mode. He doesn't have the money to repay these refunds, and isn't in the correct state of mind clearly with how he's dealing with the issues. He's trying to damage control lol.

Wow I just saw this thread and read it all, this is crazy and Red sorry to hear what happened to you. From what I'm reading on here I hope he gets what is coming to him.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kxr

I guess he got tired of the honesty... His page is private now.

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Probably because I already posted a screen shot of it. Im blocked from his business page too

He posted that he sent a refund, can you confirm?

Of course, the refund was sent from a friends paypal, since his is still "locked".

Truthfully, I bet he got one of those 2 ladies that keep standing up for him to bail him out. The ones that keep blaming the victims and saying he is the best.

Well...either way, hopefully you got your money and where he goes with all this is up to him now..