**GRAPHIC** Reminder to always monitor live feedings!!!

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

Probably nothing if all they see are banged up vehicles and at the worst a sheet over a body. If we are going to continue to stray further from the topic, I know a guy who witnessed a motorcyclist get killed by an on coming truck. He was first on the scene and saw all the gruesome aspects of which I will spare you all. He listed his motorcycle for sale the next day.

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In line with the departure and a little to answer Eric's question, risk vs reward is always a factor. I ride motorcycles. I know the risks. I have been hit myself and was lucky enough to walk away. I used to ride with girls on the back frequently until I had a situation that convinced me that nothing I did would have prevented a passenger from getting hurt. Some moron dropped a ladder right in front of me at around 70 miles an hour. There was no way to stop and I was surrounded by traffic. I had to go over the ladder. If I would have had a passenger I doubt I could have done it and we both would have been dead. Risking myself because I like riding is acceptable to me. Risking the passenger is not. That same week I watched a guy go down on the highway at 80 and it was not his fault. I don't ride that road at that time a day any more, but I still ride. It's all about what an individual deems acceptable risk.

This is always a controversial topic. I think feeding live is no big deal if you do it responsibly. If you care about your animals, be responsible.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Well, driving drunk is not a "necessity", like driving itself.

Yet it happens ALL THE TIME.

Texting while driving is not a necessity. Again, happens all over and all of the time.

Some of the offenders are young people that most certainly have come across the typical "scare tactics" during their education at school. The typical gruesome pictures, the visits to the morgue. Yet, they still do it. The human brain has a great mechanism of "blocking out" negative information.
The adults that do it. They know better as well. I think everybody has seen the pictures of wrecks, or dead people, thanks to drunk driving, texting during driving or even smoking during driving. Yet people do it all the time. I dare say everyone in here has done something like this at one time or another, fully aware of the possible consequences.

Children are being taught not to go with strangers. Some are being taught with scare tactics. Scary pictures. Scary stories. There has been a study out there where they tested children. Most went with the stranger, if only to see puppies. The children who were actually taught in a positive way, appealing to their "good sense" praising them for remembering reasons, giving them incentive and positive feedback to do the right thing fared FAR better!!

I can't find the study right now, but it has been established that scare tactics really do not work that well for educational purposes.

On the contrary, positive experiences and teaching tools work great. Offering help, not berating for mistakes, praising effort. All this has a long lasting effect. It wakens the desire to do better.

I do agree...a picture is worth a thousand words. In many ways.

But certain images such as the one posted don't have much of any true positive effect and not much of a educational one. I don't even think they were intended for that. Pictures such as that are usually abused for some agenda or other.

Opinions will always vary. Points differ. I think we can all argue all this till the cows come home and in the end, there will still be disagreement.

Most important is to remember that we are all here for the love of our animals, so we can get past not agreeing on everything ;)

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I love to disagree with Eric. He argues well and at the very least I learn something from the disagreement. As to the rest of your post, I am sure there are studies that will present either argument favorably. Some people learn better with positive reinforcement, some with negative, more still with a balance of both. The discussions I have here whether positive or negative always benefit me. I usually walk away with something new learned whether it is about the animals or something else. My discussions are never personal. I would expect that very few of us actually know who the others really are so there is no way it can be personal. Half the time I don't even know if I am talking to a male or a female. I could be a 15 year old girl with a cornsnake and no one would be the wiser. I will admit some are more fun to disagree with than others. Eric like I said is fun, and when Deborah or Pit get sucked into something it is almost always going to get entertaining.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I love to disagree with Eric. He argues well and at the very least I learn something from the disagreement. As to the rest of your post, I am sure there are studies that will present either argument favorably. Some people learn better with positive reinforcement, some with negative, more still with a balance of both. The discussions I have here whether positive or negative always benefit me. I usually walk away with something new learned whether it is about the animals or something else. My discussions are never personal. I would expect that very few of us actually know who the others really are so there is no way it can be personal. Half the time I don't even know if I am talking to a male or a female. I could be a 15 year old girl with a cornsnake and no one would be the wiser. I will admit some are more fun to disagree with than others. Eric like I said is fun, and when Deborah or Pit get sucked into something it is almost always going to get entertaining.

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Are you saying I'm no fun to argue with???

Takes her corn snake and goes to pout in a corner...

:P

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Originally Posted by zina10

Are you saying I'm no fun to argue with???

Takes her corn snake and goes to pout in a corner...

:P

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ROFL. No Zena, I'm afraid to argue with you. Last time I got into a heated discussion with a German lady was years ago in Wiesbaden. We had a "cultural difference" and I ended up getting my face slapped.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

ROFL. No Zena, I'm afraid to argue with you. Last time I got into a heated discussion with a German lady was years ago in Wiesbaden. We had a "cultural difference" and I ended up getting my face slapped.

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;)

We are temperamental, what can I say... :)

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Originally Posted by zina10

Well, driving drunk is not a "necessity", like driving itself.

Yet it happens ALL THE TIME.

Texting while driving is not a necessity. Again, happens all over and all of the time.

Some of the offenders are young people that most certainly have come across the typical "scare tactics" during their education at school. The typical gruesome pictures, the visits to the morgue. Yet, they still do it. The human brain has a great mechanism of "blocking out" negative information.
The adults that do it. They know better as well. I think everybody has seen the pictures of wrecks, or dead people, thanks to drunk driving, texting during driving or even smoking during driving. Yet people do it all the time. I dare say everyone in here has done something like this at one time or another, fully aware of the possible consequences.

Children are being taught not to go with strangers. Some are being taught with scare tactics. Scary pictures. Scary stories. There has been a study out there where they tested children. Most went with the stranger, if only to see puppies. The children who were actually taught in a positive way, appealing to their "good sense" praising them for remembering reasons, giving them incentive and positive feedback to do the right thing fared FAR better!!

I can't find the study right now, but it has been established that scare tactics really do not work that well for educational purposes.

On the contrary, positive experiences and teaching tools work great. Offering help, not berating for mistakes, praising effort. All this has a long lasting effect. It wakens the desire to do better.

I do agree...a picture is worth a thousand words. In many ways.

But certain images such as the one posted don't have much of any true positive effect and not much of a educational one. I don't even think they were intended for that. Pictures such as that are usually abused for some agenda or other.

Opinions will always vary. Points differ. I think we can all argue all this till the cows come home and in the end, there will still be disagreement.

Most important is to remember that we are all here for the love of our animals, so we can get past not agreeing on everything ;)

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[emoji1362] Very intelligent comment!!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Well, driving drunk is not a "necessity", like driving itself.

Yet it happens ALL THE TIME.

Texting while driving is not a necessity. Again, happens all over and all of the time.

Some of the offenders are young people that most certainly have come across the typical "scare tactics" during their education at school. The typical gruesome pictures, the visits to the morgue. Yet, they still do it. The human brain has a great mechanism of "blocking out" negative information.
The adults that do it. They know better as well. I think everybody has seen the pictures of wrecks, or dead people, thanks to drunk driving, texting during driving or even smoking during driving. Yet people do it all the time. I dare say everyone in here has done something like this at one time or another, fully aware of the possible consequences.

Children are being taught not to go with strangers. Some are being taught with scare tactics. Scary pictures. Scary stories. There has been a study out there where they tested children. Most went with the stranger, if only to see puppies. The children who were actually taught in a positive way, appealing to their "good sense" praising them for remembering reasons, giving them incentive and positive feedback to do the right thing fared FAR better!!

I can't find the study right now, but it has been established that scare tactics really do not work that well for educational purposes.

On the contrary, positive experiences and teaching tools work great. Offering help, not berating for mistakes, praising effort. All this has a long lasting effect. It wakens the desire to do better.

I do agree...a picture is worth a thousand words. In many ways.

But certain images such as the one posted don't have much of any true positive effect and not much of a educational one. I don't even think they were intended for that. Pictures such as that are usually abused for some agenda or other.

Opinions will always vary. Points differ. I think we can all argue all this till the cows come home and in the end, there will still be disagreement.

Most important is to remember that we are all here for the love of our animals, so we can get past not agreeing on everything ;)

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It may not help everyone and it's not meant to as that's not possible. I agree people will do what they want whether they know the possible consequences or not, but if there is a possibility, a slight chance to teach and educate that one person than so be it. A lot more people would take this topic more serious with a photo of a possible consequence than if I just told them what could happen.

I think the argument that "it COULD happen if not done responsibly" while knowing that pic is of a rat that has been eating the snake for days, is along the lines of "you COULD get hit by a car if you walk across the freeway".

The pic in the OP's post simply has less to do with the action of feeding live, and more to do with being absolutely absent minded for a long time lol. If everyone was as irresponsible and absent minded as that, let's walk across the freeway tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I think the argument that "it COULD happen if not done responsibly" while knowing that pic is of a rat that has been eating the snake for days, is along the lines of "you COULD get hit by a car if you walk across the freeway".

The pic in the OP's post simply has less to do with the action of feeding live, and more to do with being absolutely absent minded for a long time lol. If everyone was as irresponsible and absent minded as that, let's walk across the freeway tomorrow!

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Whether it was a day or days, a rodent should not be left with a snake unattended overnight period. That's all this post was about, I took it to another level with a pic to show how serious it can be, but all the live feeder fanboys/girls got butthurt thinking I was talking down on live feeding in general.

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Whether it was a day or days, a rodent should not be left with a snake unattended overnight period. That's all this post was about, I took it to another level with a pic to show how serious it can be, but all the live feeder fanboys/girls got butthurt thinking I was talking down on live feeding in general.

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Still missing the point and not accomplishing anything,

let see maybe picture work better with you

look this is what happen can when you use a heat source for your sakes
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...se-on-fire.jpg

This is what happen if you don’t feed your snake

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...tiles/corn.jpg

Do you think this helps? Warning for things that are just common sense and rarely happens are pretty much useless and only done for shock value and attention. Do you think this thread is saving 1 life, 2, 3 maybe because let’s face it very rarely happen, it’s like those warning on anything and everything like plastic bags and buckets, they are there just because at some point something happened to someone and the company got sued. (absurd and honestly useless warning)

How about you educate people instead? (that means writing based on experience of course) and trust me it’s much better than graphic pictures which don’t educate people nor do they make them change (if it was the case nobody would be smocking.) it chocks people they’ll have it in their mind for a hour or two maybe a day and they will soon forget because our society is pretty much immune to graphic imagery, the key like everything is education.

People see a graphic picture they think “oh no this is what happens when you feed live” and you have not accomplished anything (case point with the second poster) and you have not bother to educate them either after reading this reassuring that live feeding was ok

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Originally Posted by OneEyedFox

This is exactly one of the biggest reasons I stopped feeding live. Jeez, just looking at that makes me sick and sad. I'm gonna go cuddle with Calliope now...
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As for butt hurt not quite I feed what works (I have no preference food is food) and I believe in educating people, I don’t believe in shock value and attention seeking thread titled

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**GRAPHIC** Reminder to always monitor live feedings!!!

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which associate lack of monitoring with tragic results.

I guess now we should make warning post about everything and make sure to make it as graphic as possible.

Just cause you think it's common sense doesn't mean everyone knows. I'm done arguing. Whether you like this post or not alot of people can learn from it and your opinion on whether this will help or not means nothing. Sorry not sorry :)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Still missing the point and not accomplishing anything,

let see maybe picture work better with you

look this is what happen can when you use a heat source for your sakes
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...se-on-fire.jpg

This is what happen if you don’t feed your snake

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...tiles/corn.jpg

Do you think this helps? Warning for things that are just common sense and rarely happens are pretty much useless and only done for shock value and attention. Do you think this thread is saving 1 life, 2, 3 maybe because let’s face it very rarely happen, it’s like those warning on anything and everything like plastic bags and buckets, they are there just because at some point something happened to someone and the company got sued. (absurd and honestly useless warning)

How about you educate people instead? (that means writing based on experience of course) and trust me it’s much better than graphic pictures which don’t educate people nor do they make them change (if it was the case nobody would be smocking.) it chocks people they’ll have it in their mind for a hour or two maybe a day and they will soon forget because our society is pretty much immune to graphic imagery, the key like everything is education.

People see a graphic picture they think “oh no this is what happens when you feed live” and you have not accomplished anything (case point with the second poster) and you have not bother to educate them either after reading this reassuring that live feeding was ok



As for butt hurt not quite I feed what works (I have no preference food is food) and I believe in educating people, I don’t believe in shock value and attention seeking thread titled which associate lack of monitoring with tragic results.

I guess now we should make warning post about everything and make sure to make it as graphic as possible.

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I did later say that I also stopped feeding live because of financial reasons and made a very long post about how I'm fully aware of the circumstances required to cause such an incident. I was educated. I'm sorry, I just don't like having my post used like that when I did make a follow up post the very next morning regarding the subject, and shining more light on it.


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Those that say graphic imagery does not work are not correct. Those that say it always does are not correct. I don't know how many different ways I can say it but different things work on different people. Deborah is right, graphic imagery has not stopped me from smoking. It has stopped my daughters from sticking their faces in snake tubs. Over the years they had only learned the nice side of my animals. They play with them like they are the trusted family dog. They are at the age where I have decided they can start helping me feed but no amount of talking could convince them that their "toys" could so drastically change behavior. Unknown to them I set up a situation with one of their most trusted animals who is pretty large for a ball while they watched me feed. I basically set it up so that it appeared that the animal spontaneously launched itself half way out of the tub at my face. I made sure that they could see the speed of the strike with the mouth wide open. I of course knew the animal was coming and how far it could go. This was a wake-up call for them. They saw a trusted animal suddenly act like something dangerous. They no longer stick their faces over snake tubs at any time, and are now super careful when dinner is served. If this had failed to convince them I was prepared to go ahead and take a bite and hopefully bleed a little bit. I didn't though. The shock factor of the behavior change was a good enough.

Sure looks like a mouse to me. Not that the type of rodent really matters. What does matter is context. Instead of getting the real information regarding this picture, we're settling for 3rd?, 4th?, 20th? down the line. Ever play the whisper game as a kid? You sit in a circle and one person whispers something in the ear of the next, who whispers it to the next, etc, etc. When it gets all the way around the last person says what was whispered to them out loud. These kind of posts always remind me of that game.