Tragic day for my snakes.

if you want to go crazy here is another... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d_i=6291364011

Sorry I guess I haven't been clear. Those are analog dimmer, they might be a good idea after the relay but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about digital ones that can be controlled trough the GPIO and substitute the relays. Good thermostat like the herpstat aren't on-off and are able to keep the temperature more constant. They do that by either dimming (not sure how) or using a proportional function to calculate when turn on or off the heat (like sending pulses).

Since you're setting up such a good system I'd suggest going for a proportional relay.

Edit: not sure if I'm looking at them right but they seem expensive, maybe you can implement it software side like this https://learn.adafruit.com/sous-vide...rtional-output

I'm very sorry for your losses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aste88

Sorry I guess I haven't been clear. Those are analog dimmer, they might be a good idea after the relay but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about digital ones that can be controlled trough the GPIO and substitute the relays. Good thermostat like the herpstat aren't on-off and are able to keep the temperature more constant. They do that by either dimming (not sure how) or using a proportional function to calculate when turn on or off the heat (like sending pulses).

Since you're setting up such a good system I'd suggest going for a proportional relay.

Edit: not sure if I'm looking at them right but they seem expensive, maybe you can implement it software side like this https://learn.adafruit.com/sous-vide...rtional-output

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I think you are referring to solid state relays that can act as variable resistors(sort of anyway) in conjunction with being a relay.

http://www.crydom.com/en/products/pc.../cx241-series/

https://www.amazon.com/Anycubic-8-Ch...id+state+relay

Otherwise the only thing I can think of is a straight up solenoid/variable resistor controlled electronically.

As an update I have gotten the raspberry pi to be able to trigger relays in tests of just how the pi communicates with the relays both via the command line and via a python script. Today I just finished up reading three temp probes in parallel. Making progress. Just need to start working on the programming logic of probes to trigger the relays now. Shouldnt be that long to get at least a 1 probe 1 relay system working. Alerts and emails are on phase 3.

Sweet!... Please keep updating this thread (I don't know anything about the programming aspect of this, but I find it extremely interesting).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

Sweet!... Please keep updating this thread (I don't know anything about the programming aspect of this, but I find it extremely interesting).

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Thanks. I had missed sometime to work on this for a few weeks but was able to start to dive into it this week. my goal is to have a working 1 probe 1 heat element working by sunday evening. The hardest part will be mapping the probes to each heat element as they report in with serial numbers that arent really human readable or friendly.

Also I read up a lot on what Aste88 was referring to and really like where their head was at. I will be going with solid state relays, and seeing about a timer based logic to prevent heat elements exceeding a threshold. but that will take time testing and practice. Maybe other ideas to get done what he was talking about.

I will say as I am going through the process, the engineering behind it is a challenge for sure. Trying to make something that gives me all the features, safety logic, and control I want is not easy. But If it was easy it would be already done and a product or everyone would be doing it.

I also plan on sharing my work with everyone once everything is completed as well, so others can do similar if they wish.

Found a board that would work well to replace the relays

http://www.electronicnuts.com/4-chan...atible-5060hz-

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Originally Posted by Aste88

Found a board that would work well to replace the relays

http://www.electronicnuts.com/4-chan...atible-5060hz-

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Awesome find. I will reach out to these folks and see what I can find and what sort of help they can give me.

I see this as the right way to go if I can make it work.

I have the Zilla Thermostat and I'm confused as to how it didn't shut off? It has a safety feature built in that is supposed to trigger in this very circumstance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bmocken

I have the Zilla Thermostat and I'm confused as to how it didn't shut off? It has a safety feature built in that is supposed to trigger in this very circumstance.

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The relay (electronic switch) that triggers your heat element either on or off (closing the normally open circuit) is just like this one here :https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The issue with those type of relays, is that they are a mechanical device(moving parts). Inside the relay there is a magnet and wire coil that physically pulls a piece of metal down to complete the circuit, thus turning your heat element on. When desired temp is reached, it releases the metal arm inside the relay, thus turning it off.

The problem with mechanical relays, is that since it is a moving part, they wear out over time. When this happens, the relay is either always on(normally open side is closed) or always off(normally open side cannot close to complete the circuit).

In the case of what happened to me, mine failed and stayed on, even though the LED would turn on and off with temps. I even tested that after the fact to truly pin point the failure.
Not sure what safety feature they built in but it did not save me at all from what happened. Upon taking it apart i found no wiring or components that would have served such a purpose either.



additional information on relays http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrelayswork.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt-4jJvYvzI

Here is what I have thus far.


All 16 relays are wired and can be triggered either via script or on demand. This gives me a full 16 ZONES! of control. The herpstat 6 only has 6 zones. I have 3 temp probes wired up and configured the 1 wire data feed connection as well.

I have connected a temporary device (light bulb) to one of the channels to begin working on the logic and code for heating controls. configured relay trigger works and turns on light.

here is a pic of the current test build.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...est-system.jpg

With a Herpstat model that includes the safety relay it has a relay inline with the solid state components. You enable the safety relay in the menu which can tie it into your settable High / Low temp alarms. So when your alarms are breached it will beep but will also trigger the relay cutting power to all outputs on the thermostat. This is what protects your against a runaway heating situation.

Those models would be the Intro+, Herpstat 1, Herpstat 2, Herpstat 4, Herpstat 6.

There are devices out there that do the text/email alerts. We've investigated that idea several times but unfortunately the explosion of "Internet of Things" products out there has also exploded with exploits and security holes. So now you not only have to worry about a hardware failure but also internet security, router configs, and so forth. Email alerts are like finding out your home is on fire. Its good to know but its better to put the effort into preventing the fire in the first place.

Keep in mind a mechanical relay only thermostat has a limited contact life with the biggest problem being when the contacts are released there is a spark that wears on the contacts. One of the reasons we have some special sauce in our Herpstat HP to minimize that. :) Not to mention if you are using it for regular temperature control of an enclosure the relay clicking will drive you mad.

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcutting

from what I have seen I am not sure if they do detect the type of failure I had. Plus their alarm is a local one, meaning either visual or near by audio based one. I travel enough for long enough periods of time, that having a text/email alert when a relay failure is detected is needed.

The other thing I am doing is building a 12 zone system, one for every single snake so I can manage each animal individually. Granted I see where thats a bit overkill, but I would rather do this once the way I want it, than halfway do it and wish i did more later.

So when all said and done the value perspective of the herpstats is great, the key features I am after, multi zone and text/email alerts and remote control, there simply is nothing that does it. to get the zone coverage I am looking at close to $1,000, without the other features.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

With a Herpstat model that includes the safety relay it has a relay inline with the solid state components. You enable the safety relay in the menu which can tie it into your settable High / Low temp alarms. So when your alarms are breached it will beep but will also trigger the relay cutting power to all outputs on the thermostat. This is what protects your against a runaway heating situation.

Those models would be the Intro+, Herpstat 1, Herpstat 2, Herpstat 4, Herpstat 6.

There are devices out there that do the text/email alerts. We've investigated that idea several times but unfortunately the explosion of "Internet of Things" products out there has also exploded with exploits and security holes. So now you not only have to worry about a hardware failure but also internet security, router configs, and so forth. Email alerts are like finding out your home is on fire. Its good to know but its better to put the effort into preventing the fire in the first place.

Keep in mind a mechanical relay only thermostat has a limited contact life with the biggest problem being when the contacts are released there is a spark that wears on the contacts. One of the reasons we have some special sauce in our Herpstat HP to minimize that. :) Not to mention if you are using it for regular temperature control of an enclosure the relay clicking will drive you mad.

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

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So its been a crazy long time since i updated this post and even had time to work on this project. (i have since been running a far safer thermostat solution since then) but I am getting it going again.

To your point about IoT and the security needs for it, I actually work in the cyber security field and have been at it for over 10 years. I am aware of the design challenges required to make this work and keep it from being an access point for attackers. My goal is to have it only send out encrypted data and not allow anything inbound. Well at least not directly. I have an SSL vpn configured for my home with Dynamic DNS setup so I can remotely connect to my home as it is. I use this for my Home assistant system which has no route path to the internet configured.

Anyway, I have solved some of the issues I needed to deal with recently and should hopefully have a working prototype by the end of dec. Ill try to update this thread, or start a new one depending on if people are interested.

I've got something I've been messing with. Forgive the cellphone quality pics. :^)


http://www.spyderrobotics.com/images...b_display1.jpg

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/images...b_display2.jpg

-Dion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

I've got something I've been messing with. Forgive the cellphone quality pics. :^)


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b_display1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b_display2.jpg

-Dion

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I am a Network Engineer by trade and am getting ready to need to order my next Herpstat (I've gotten (2) so far).

Can I get in on a Beta for this if it's really WiFi enabled? I'd be all about that life, especially if I could monitor from remote.

Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pbenner

I am a Network Engineer by trade and am getting ready to need to order my next Herpstat (I've gotten (2) so far).

Can I get in on a Beta for this if it's really WiFi enabled? I'd be all about that life, especially if I could monitor from remote.

Paul

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Its really wifi enabled. I'll be looking for some beta testers shortly. We beat it up in house pretty good but this is new territory so like any device I'm sure there are some tweaks that will need to be made. Its OTA capable though so that is easy enough. I've written some pretty cool features into the code on this one and of course converted the core of my code from my other models as well. Currently has remote monitoring, remote settings, graphs, scheduled and emegency emails, remote emergency shutoff ability, firmware update checking, and more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

Its really wifi enabled. I'll be looking for some beta testers shortly. We beat it up in house pretty good but this is new territory so like any device I'm sure there are some tweaks that will need to be made. Its OTA capable though so that is easy enough. I've written some pretty cool features into the code on this one and of course converted the core of my code from my other models as well. Currently has remote monitoring, remote settings, graphs, scheduled and emegency emails, remote emergency shutoff ability, firmware update checking, and more.

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I am a Network/Systems/Security Engineer(I have worn many hats within IT) as well. I can even start to give it some pen test stuff too if you want. I would be really interested in working with you on anything you feel you need a hand with. It would be really cool if you could integrate with internally hosted solutions and not just cloud stuff too. Not sure exactly what you have going on, but really would like to chat about it sometime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

Its really wifi enabled. I'll be looking for some beta testers shortly. We beat it up in house pretty good but this is new territory so like any device I'm sure there are some tweaks that will need to be made. Its OTA capable though so that is easy enough. I've written some pretty cool features into the code on this one and of course converted the core of my code from my other models as well. Currently has remote monitoring, remote settings, graphs, scheduled and emegency emails, remote emergency shutoff ability, firmware update checking, and more.

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Then please keep me in mind. I'm going to need to grab a Herpstat 2 very shortly for two new stacked racks coming in, but I could readily replace any of my current models to test something like this. This is damned cool.

Best,

Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I am a Network/Systems/Security Engineer(I have worn many hats within IT) as well. I can even start to give it some pen test stuff too if you want. I would be really interested in working with you on anything you feel you need a hand with. It would be really cool if you could integrate with internally hosted solutions and not just cloud stuff too. Not sure exactly what you have going on, but really would like to chat about it sometime.

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It does. Has a internal webserver which is how remote settings are utilized as well as status. Cloud stuff is just an alternative for people who can't figure out how to open up their router with port forwarding and also with the idea that an upload may be more secure than having the webserver running in some situations. I tried to give as many options as possible in the unit.

Maybe it’s been said, but I’m way too lazy to read every single post (just being honest!). I run a VE300 and back it up with an inexpensive on/off thermostat. I only keep 9 snakes (6 in tubs) but I’ve grown pretty attached to them so I hit every tub and tank with a temp gun 3 or 4 times a day when I can. When it’s time to change the substrate completely and I have the snakes out of the tubs, I run a quick check to make sure the backup shuts the system off.


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