Not looking good.. Deformed hatchlings

So sorry to hear what happened with this clutch. Fingers crossed for your second clutch!

So very sorry that it looks as if you may have to euthanize what you looked forward to all this time, but I will throw in with the people who say there is nothing wrong with doing the humane thing if you are able to make yourself do it. I've had that decision before me with other pets, and it is always difficult. I hope that at least one of the clutch is salvageable :(

So sorry to hear they passed [emoji20] at least they aren't suffering

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPSnape

So very sorry that it looks as if you may have to euthanize what you looked forward to all this time, but I will throw in with the people who say there is nothing wrong with doing the humane thing if you are able to make yourself do it. I've had that decision before me with other pets, and it is always difficult. I hope that at least one of the clutch is salvageable :(

---

This post is several weeks old. Most of them passed away on their own at the end of June.

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't make it [emoji26] Best of luck to you with further clutches! Did you ever say how the other clutch you had at the same time turned out? I may have missed it in the comments!

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this with us... I really appreciate it. Many people would be too embarrassed or saddened to post about a deformed clutch, but sometimes it happens, even with a good incubation setup.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinkade

This post is several weeks old. Most of them passed away on their own at the end of June.

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't make it [emoji26] Best of luck to you with further clutches! Did you ever say how the other clutch you had at the same time turned out? I may have missed it in the comments!

---

He other clutch came out all healthy. [emoji4]


Sent from iPhone 6 using tapatalk :)

Sorry all for the late responses. I haven't been around as much lately. Yes, all passed away a couple days after their first shed, and all within a day of each other. I was hoping to get a clue as to what happened when I posted this thread - to see if anyone knew why they hatched deformed. Unfortunately not much was learned and is still all inconclusive. We're considering keeping the female and breeding her again to another male. The male has had three other healthy clutches with us.

Our second clutch that hatched about 10 days after this one are all doing great. They all hatched healthy and chubby. The biggest one is already at 140g.


Here are some photos incase you've missed my other thread on them:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/372/1...e7a4dcbe_c.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/556/1...4b692577_c.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/458/1...29cb054c_c.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/548/1...f5e22aec_c.jpg


We got 1 Blue Eyed Lucy, 3 Lesser Pastels, 1 Lesser

Those are gorgeous babies! I'm glad this clutch worked out for you. Hopefully it is just a fluke thing and your female gives you healthy little ones in the future.

Galaxy girl what type of incubator do you have?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Homemade incubator made out of a large cooler. Heat tape along bottom, water bottles in there, one shelf and a small computer fan that we turned off because it was dehydrating the eggs - even with cling wrap and tops on their tubs.

Hi folks,
it's been a while since someone posted something, so i'm gonna share my experience on this subject.

I'm pretty sure, that the shark mouth deformation mostly is caused by humidity issues.
I had a Bumbelbelly x Ivory clutch (3 eggs) in 2014, that had the same problem. 2 of the animals peeked out of the egg, the third one died in the egg. The eggs dried out for about a day or two, because i didn't put the top cover of the box on correctly, so most of the humidity got lost too quickly.
The babys would have been 2 gorgeous Bumblebellys and one SpiderIvory (possible BumblebeeIvory).

This year i had a BlackPastel het. Albino x AlbinoSpider clutch with the same incubation issue. I check the incubator every one or two days. at about week 3 into incubation i noticed that the eggs were dipping and then noticed that all the water in the box was gone (to this day i don't know why, all other clutches were ok). I immediately refilled the box with water and the eggs recoiled a bit, but not to the original form. 2 days ago on day 58 of incubation i cut the eggs just a tiny bit to see if there is anything alive in those eggs. One day later a Classic het. Albino and a AlbinoBlackbee were peeking out. Sadly both with the deformed/way to short jaw. The 2 remaining animals are still sitting in the egg and haven't peeked out jet. Over the night, the first 2 that peeked out thoght it was a good idea to leave the egg. The Classic strangled itself with its ambilical cord and was discovered dead in the morning. The AlbinoBlackbee was still allive. I seperated the AlBb to an other plastic box with wet tissue on the bottom. At this point the animal still hat it's ambilical cord attatched to the yolk that remained in the egg. I honestly expected the animal to be dead in the evening, but supringly it somehow cut the amilical cord and its belly closed up. Then i noticed severe wobbling with the animal and of course the way to short lower jaw. Right now, i'm waiting for the other 2 to climb out of their egg, but i expect them to have the same deformation. I'll keep you guys updated.

In 2014 i've had a second clutch with 2 deformed babys. But i think that's something for an other thread, because they didn't have the shark mouth. But that was the most horrific clutch i've ever hatched. Severe head deformation + belly grown together + heart beating outside of the body. I took pictures and a clip of that, but honestly try to avoid looking at it cause it disturbs me too much.

When i finally figure out how to upload pics here i'll post some of them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matches Beck

When i finally figure out how to upload pics here i'll post some of them

---

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Post-Pictures

@PitOnTheProwl: Thanks mate!

Here some pics of the 2014 Bumblebelly x Ivory clutch - with shark mouth
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_1750.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_1752.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_1753.jpg

And there are the most recent pics of the Blackpastel het. Albino x AlbinoSpider clutch of 2016 - also with the shark mouth
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...52_-_kopie.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...802_065429.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...35_-_kopie.jpg


And here the most horrific animal i hatched - from Enchi x Pastel in 2014 - notice that the animal was still alive and the heart next to it was still beating
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_1686.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_1685.jpg

:please: white anaconda ,oh forget name tyepe man??http://laissezachats.net/231/o.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasonandreaspeters

:please: white anaconda ,oh forget name tyepe man??http://laissezachats.net/231/o.png

---

Sorry mate, i don't get what you're trying to say!?

Good post for people to understand that things can go wrong even with a "safe" pairing.

We can create all the morphs in the world and be successful at it. Then there are those times Mother Nature is going to step in and take control of everything as it relates to morbidity and mortality. She is one of two supreme forces that has the final say. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

Does anyone have instructions on how to pith a snake? I can't find any information on it.. Or would it be easier to use CO2? I'm not sure if that's what rodent breeders use, honestly wasn't prepared for something like this.

---

Hatchlings are pretty simple. Put baby in a folded paper towel then into a sandwich bag, note where head is. It will be still and calm because it is dark and safe in there. Completely smash head with any tool or your thumb. It does not take much to do and the towel should be wet when the job is done well. It is very fast and the hatchlings that I have done this way due to severe kinking and jaw deformaties have gone very fast with nearly no twitching afterwards. Since it is already in a bag, there is no mess or gore to see. It happens, even when you have done everything right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kibbleswhites

Hatchlings are pretty simple. Put baby in a folded paper towel then into a sandwich bag, note where head is. It will be still and calm because it is dark and safe in there. Completely smash head with any tool or your thumb. It does not take much to do and the towel should be wet when the job is done well. It is very fast and the hatchlings that I have done this way due to severe kinking and jaw deformaties have gone very fast with nearly no twitching afterwards. Since it is already in a bag, there is no mess or gore to see. It happens, even when you have done everything right.

---

Eugh. Gosh, is there a less brutal way to do it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fraido

Eugh. Gosh, is there a less brutal way to do it?

---

As brutal as it sounds, complete cranial destruction is the most humane way to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fraido

Eugh. Gosh, is there a less brutal way to do it?

---

When doing at home/emergency euthanasia, the goal is to destroy the brain. You can use a shotgun, a hammer, a screwdriver, an icepick, etc. Unless you're competent in the process, causing broad range damage is your best bet at getting the job done without causing additional pain. I use a pocketknife because I've always got one on me and when I have something that needs to be put down, waiting around isn't doing either of us any favors.

I get that, not something I could ever personally do if I had something like this, though. God forbid I ever give it a go and make a mistake and the thing is writhing around in pain. The thought just makes me cringe. Yeesh!

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Afer waiting a few days for the other 2 eggs to hatch i cut them open. Both animals were already dead. The Spider het. Albino looks like it has been dead for a longer period of time, cause it isn't fully developed. The Cinnabee het. Albino looks quite normal, except for the shark mouth.
The only alive animal from this clutch shows a very severe wobble and has also the shark mouth. I'm probably gonna put it down tonight, to end this misery.
I'm so frustrated right now that i'm considering selling all my albino stuff except for one enchi albino female that stands out. :mad:

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...803_190423.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...803_190600.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kibbleswhites

Hatchlings are pretty simple. Put baby in a folded paper towel then into a sandwich bag, note where head is. It will be still and calm because it is dark and safe in there. Completely smash head with any tool or your thumb. It does not take much to do and the towel should be wet when the job is done well. It is very fast and the hatchlings that I have done this way due to severe kinking and jaw deformaties have gone very fast with nearly no twitching afterwards. Since it is already in a bag, there is no mess or gore to see. It happens, even when you have done everything right.

---

How much pressure does it take with your thumb? This is something I hope I don't have to do ever, but I realize I'll probably do it at least once in my life. I even felt a little bad killing some rats with co2 even though the alternative would be feeding them live to a snake (which is a much worse way to go imo). I've read about a hammer and everything but I've hit a few nails before and my aim is not something to brag about. While I'd hate to feel the squish I'd feel better knowing it was done right and done quickly with the animal feeling as little pain as possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matches Beck

Hi folks,
it's been a while since someone posted something, so i'm gonna share my experience on this subject.

I'm pretty sure, that the shark mouth deformation mostly is caused by humidity issues.
I had a Bumbelbelly x Ivory clutch (3 eggs) in 2014, that had the same problem. 2 of the animals peeked out of the egg, the third one died in the egg. The eggs dried out for about a day or two, because i didn't put the top cover of the box on correctly, so most of the humidity got lost too quickly.
The babys would have been 2 gorgeous Bumblebellys and one SpiderIvory (possible BumblebeeIvory).

This year i had a BlackPastel het. Albino x AlbinoSpider clutch with the same incubation issue. I check the incubator every one or two days. at about week 3 into incubation i noticed that the eggs were dipping and then noticed that all the water in the box was gone (to this day i don't know why, all other clutches were ok). I immediately refilled the box with water and the eggs recoiled a bit, but not to the original form. 2 days ago on day 58 of incubation i cut the eggs just a tiny bit to see if there is anything alive in those eggs. One day later a Classic het. Albino and a AlbinoBlackbee were peeking out. Sadly both with the deformed/way to short jaw. The 2 remaining animals are still sitting in the egg and haven't peeked out jet. Over the night, the first 2 that peeked out thoght it was a good idea to leave the egg. The Classic strangled itself with its ambilical cord and was discovered dead in the morning. The AlbinoBlackbee was still allive. I seperated the AlBb to an other plastic box with wet tissue on the bottom. At this point the animal still hat it's ambilical cord attatched to the yolk that remained in the egg. I honestly expected the animal to be dead in the evening, but supringly it somehow cut the amilical cord and its belly closed up. Then i noticed severe wobbling with the animal and of course the way to short lower jaw. Right now, i'm waiting for the other 2 to climb out of their egg, but i expect them to have the same deformation. I'll keep you guys updated.

In 2014 i've had a second clutch with 2 deformed babys. But i think that's something for an other thread, because they didn't have the shark mouth. But that was the most horrific clutch i've ever hatched. Severe head deformation + belly grown together + heart beating outside of the body. I took pictures and a clip of that, but honestly try to avoid looking at it cause it disturbs me too much.

When i finally figure out how to upload pics here i'll post some of them

---

I have an update on Shark Mouth... So being that I believed this deformity was environmental or some freakish anomaly and not related to the genetics, I bred the same mother again to a different male this time, and as the babies hatched, I've found that only 1 of the hatchlings do not have shark mouth. Everything else from other mother's are hatching fine in the same incubator. So this is the second time in a row for me the same mother has given me shark mouth babies. She had healthy babies with her previous owner apparently, so I don't know what to think. Maybe shark mouth can have a genetic aspect to it, and also be environmental in other cases.

This little sweetheart came from the boob egg, very underdeveloped head with shark mouth, and severe kinking. I thought he would pass on his own but unfortunately was humanely euthanized via pithing.

http://i.imgur.com/Er6AjJyl.jpg


Bumblebee with a slight shark mouth. It looks worse from the side than from chin up view. This deformity seems way less severe than the previous clutch shown on the first page of this thread, so I am hoping it will make it. From the second photo's view it almost looks like he has a normal lower jaw.

http://i.imgur.com/KTvOVgBl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CvSLz27l.jpg

Were the same genes involved in the second breeding?

( I know the mothers will be :P )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Were the same genes involved in the second breeding?

( I know the mothers will be :P )

---

Similar! First sire was Pastel Lesser Spider, second sire was Enchi Lesser Spider

Before giving up on her I'd be heck of a tempted to try a combo without lesser or spider it ( though to be honest I'm more thinking spider ).

I think that one baby has a good chance, as long as the jaw opens and closes. Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bks2100

How much pressure does it take with your thumb? This is something I hope I don't have to do ever, but I realize I'll probably do it at least once in my life. I even felt a little bad killing some rats with co2 even though the alternative would be feeding them live to a snake (which is a much worse way to go imo). I've read about a hammer and everything but I've hit a few nails before and my aim is not something to brag about. While I'd hate to feel the squish I'd feel better knowing it was done right and done quickly with the animal feeling as little pain as possible.

---

Like squishing a cherry tomato, strawberry, or palmetto bug, not much at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Before giving up on her I'd be heck of a tempted to try a combo without lesser or spider it ( though to be honest I'm more thinking spider ).

---

Spider does seem to be a common thread here on all 4 clutches.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

It's a shame, that Albino Blackbee would have been gorgeous!
Kinked up, with severe wobble and shark mouth, i just had to put it down :tears:

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2/img_2710.jpg