So who voted ??

How about Colin Powell running with condeleeza Rice as VP? Now that would be something I would vote for. And I believe they would have a good chance. That would be a great team. As far as hillary goes, if she runs she will not win and if she does, i will go AWOL from the military and move to a far foreign land.

Hiya Justin! :waves: I think Condi Rice as VP might be moving a bit too far, too fast for the country, but Powell might have a chance in either slot on the ticket. As for Hillary winning, expect to see me win first. Ain't gonna happen.

I hate politics. When I last voted in my "previous" home country, it was at gun point :evil: And I did not have a choice on whom I could vote for :(

Colin Powell has said he will not and doesn't not want to run for pres.
I do know if he did he would have my vote, hands down
Condi Rice , now there is one heck of a women.

Well, I pretty much figured that Bush would win after reading the last issue of National Geographic.

45% of Americans polled agreed that "God greated human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so".
37% of Americans allow for both Creationism and Evolution.
Only 12% believe that humans evolved from other life-forms without any involvement of God.

That really scares the crap out of me.... so much for science

I would vote for McCain and if Obama gets some exp I would definately vote for him - I was going to school in MO during that ashcroft election when the other candidate died. I really really really have a problem with Ashcroft and agree that he scares the heck out of me too. I don't have such a huge problem with Bush himself but if Ashcroft were to vanish without a trace I certainly wouldn't be pushing for any sort of investigation haha. I too am glad that we can handle such issues in such a civil manner. Powell had a discussion with his wife and they together decided that it wouldn't be the best idea for him to run for President - plus he doesn't really need to, he's already made some fantastic contributions to America. Rumor has it that Ashcroft may be asked to step down.... we'll see how that pans out. :) You guys really are the best!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

http://www.the-hamster.com/mtype/arc...croft_out.html

http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/...NTERTERROR.PDF

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21345

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ion/index.html

http://slate.msn.com/id/2108766#ContinueArticle

*** DISCLAIMER *** some of these articles do indeed come from biased sources but then again who's not biased these days .. I included his own rebuttal on CNN and an article from the O'Rielly factor for fairness. anyone have any other Ashcroft links?

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That really scares the p00 out of me.... so much for science

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That was a good issue of NG - nice jarring cover to boot! Empiricism needs to make a comeback.

I voted Kerry. My boyfriend firmly is in the camp that "your vote doesn't count" and he didn't vote.
I know this is a very touchy subject. I voted Kerry because Bush has a lot of stances that I disagree with. his stance on gay marriage, for example.
I know, a ton of Americans are against gay marriage. But I wonder if they have any gay close friends, and if so, how they can look that friend in the face and say "You should not be able to marry a mature, consenting adult of the same sex, although it'd make you happy, secure a financial future for both of you if one of you should die, etc."
And as for the whole Iraq thing, where ARE the weapons of mass destruction? Sure, there are a bunch of countries out there that hate us and may attack us (N. Korea, China, heck even Cuba) but I don't see us attacking them in the name of "fighting terror." I think that this country should have gone after Osama after 9-11, since he orchestrated that whole thing, and brought the "sob" to justice. It is pretty scarey to me, that we can attack countries in anticipation of what they "might" do to us later. How far flung is it to say that we outselves could be persecuted for crimes wa may commit in the future, based on our ethnicity, religion, or political views? I think I'll start building a camp in the woods to hide out in when the secret police comes, and I'm takin' my herps with me, lol.
All this said, I love this country. I just fear immensely for the future we are being tossed into.
I hope this thread does not put us against each other on this forum. Regardless of our political views, etc, we don't have to hate and get mad about other people's views. :)

I realize this isn't the same thing, but how does everyone feel about plural marriage between consenting adults? This can be aregued the same way many people argue to allow same sex marraige. There will have to be very specifically written laws to allow for those marriages if they ever happen, there are to many things that could be construed as written that were not intened when the law was drawn up. Don't start argueing with one another over this, I am asking for opinions and not arguments for or against

What like a harem?

Polyamory? I think it's a little weird, but I have nothing against it. Heck, I have friends who are into Polyandry (you can love more than one person). A couple of my friends have an open relationship. They just set up the rules that both people need to know who the other partner (or partner's..but that hasn't come up yet) is, and don't bring home disease.

So far they haven't gotten into a major long term "other person". The couple I'm talking about is getting handfasted (same thing legally as getting married) next summer, and they've been togther for about 6 or 7 years now.

The problem I see with polyamory is that it would throw tax law, inheritance, custody, etc., all into total disarray. Same-sex marriage wouldn't do that, because it's still just two people, only it's Bobbi and June instead of Bobby and June.

Crap, I switched the terms (Schlyne not entirely here...on meds).

Polyandry is multiple marriage (what marla is really referring to, I think, since I typed them up backwards).

Polyamory is just loving more than one person...not necesarily getting married.

yes, polyandry. I only bring these things up because of the sociologist in me. We have inquiring minds :lol: it is being nosey with an officail name

Thought polyandry meant multiple husbands and polygamy was multiple wives? (andros gynos etc)

Either way I'd think it could get very problematic if you have any sort of emotional investment in the relationship(s). Stick with the harem ;)

There is a third term for which the correct spelling escapes me or I would have put it in there. It is something like, polyginy, except I don't think that it the right spelling. One means 1 man more than 1 woman, one means 1 woman morethan one man, and one means plural marraige, either way. I wonder, is there a word for group marraige, meaning a woman is married to a man with multiple wives and she herself has other husbands on top of that? Can a woman have a harem? It all gets very confusing. I have enough trouble keeping up with one guy let alone more than one. I dated 2 at the same time once, that turned out a mess

Actually, I used polyamory specifically because it is not gender-specific and because any legal entanglements may be complex regardless of civil marriage status implied by polygamy, unlike the traditional definition of polyandry, meaning having more than one husband, versus polygyny, meaning having more than one wife. If you want to restrict it to the possibility of legally-recognized relationships, then I think polygamy is the word you want.

Too confusing - think i will just stick with POLYESTER - meaning multiple Esthers I guess.

yes, legally recongnized, or in this case not. Did you know the more I have to use those terms in papers and what not the more confused I get. I used to have them down pat, but now not si much, it is a bit backwards. I think there is a word for the group marraige, but I cannot remeber what that is either. Grr, I think the vocabulary section of my brain is finally getting full. I knew it would happen some day considering my habit of cramming new words in there, but I didn't think it would be so soon :(

Gotta love the Esthers

Polyester works for me.

Schlyne, how does one get handfasted? Is there a ceremony or what? I am not into the traditional wedding, so I loke to know about other things.

Hm...how to explain this. It's just the pagan equivalent of getting married. It's legal and everything. All of the people I have known customize their ceremony with the person who is performing it (who is a registerd reverand, minister..whatever you want to call it). They still get a marriage license.

There are several tradiation things that can be done, like the "broom leap" the handfasted couple leap together over the broom. I think it's supposed to be for fertility. Usually in the cermony itself (usually some sort of vow recital) the couple's hands are bound together with a cord (only one hand to a person). I'm not sure how long the cord stays fastened either.

My friends have been planning their own ceremony, but they're planning a bunch of unique things, and I don't know all of what they are going to do. I know that what they want to do is involve the elements, but we're not acutally calling quarters. I'm going to be representing earth, and I will be either drumming or playing the digeridoo for that. After tha n, the "groom"'s little bro will represent air, and play the flute. Then a friend will dance for water, and then the groom's other liitle bro will represent fire, and will start spinning fire.

I think they plan on doing this before vows. I'm not sure.

You can pick up books on hanfasting cermonies...but you'd probably have to go into a bookstore and either read it there, or buy it. The pagan section at public libraries is usually quite small or nonexistant.

It is sad this was an election based on morals rather than the real issues at hand.
To answer your question Gin of how can people who vote against same sex marraige and look their gay friends in the eye, most who vote against don't knowly have gay friends I'm sure.

Just remember all these types of issues and wanting to alter the const. have come up before in the past, only pertaining to marraige between whites/blacks

This is a scarey cloud forming!

Also please let me know when it is legal for Women to have a Haram :)

Yeah, I fear for the country's future.
You know what really riles me about state-level government? The way issues are proposed in the Senate without our even knowing what is going on. If you go to your state's official website and try to get a glimpse of what bills are being voted on this week, good luck. I tried, and all I got were bills that were passed or vetoed by the senator weeks ago.
And, should you somehow stumble upon a bill that is being passed before the senator in a few days, what can you do? Write them a stupid email that they'll never read, and watch as they strike away at your rights. The whole reptile-banning bill that was passed this week in NY is a prime example of that.
Geez, I could go on for hours about this stuff. I guess resistance is futile, and I should just shut up, lest I am viweed as :shudder: an activist.

No please never shut and always resist if it's how you feel.
Remember " If you don't stand up for something you will fall for anything"

The squeaky wheel gets the grease is a very true statement.

Seems the moral bible thumpers just hollered more this time.

I have written numerous letters to my senators. One, Zell Miller, has never even sent a form letter in response. The other, Saxby Chambliss, almost always responds but with something about how my position on the issue is absolutely wrong. Tax cuts for the wealthy, wars that violate international law (an impeachable offense, btw), discrimination against gays and lesbians, widening the gap between the haves and have-nots, protecting the environment, preserving civil rights, etc., he is always on the wrong side of the issue.

Well at least you get a response. I've never gotten a form letter from my current senator (I'm not counting Obama, he just got elected). I have gotten a form letter before. I signed a petition once for some sort of environmental wetland thing.

DANG, i didnt know this would end up being such a LOOOOOOONG post,Lol

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Originally Posted by jotay

Also please let me know when it is legal for Women to have a Haram :)

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Ditto :wink: :blushes:

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Originally Posted by Schlyne

Well at least you get a response. I've never gotten a form letter from my current senator (I'm not counting Obama, he just got elected). I have gotten a form letter before. I signed a petition once for some sort of environmental wetland thing.

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True, I do respect the fact that he bothers to have his staff respond, unlike Miller. I hope Obama will be responsive, because he certainly has a lot of eyes on him as a promising up-and-comer.

I must admit I didn't read the entire 6 pages of this thread....so, I'll just respond to the original question: Yes I voted, I am a registered democrat, but not really a democrat at heart--or a republican for that matter. I didn't vote democrat and am satisfied w/the outcome of the election. Personally, I think the president is just a figure head anyway and doesn't really have any power. Still, I felt it was my civic duty to vote, so I did.

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I am a registered democrat, but not really a democrat at heart--or a republican for that matter

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That's cool. I hate it when people are a member of one party, and they mindlessly just vote down the party line for everyone who's running in their party, withot thinking about it first. It is all so confusing for someone who is trying to pick out what party they want to be in (me.) I agree with a lot of the things Democrats seem to stand for, but their stance on guns really doesn't sit well with me. And I share a lot of GOP beliefs too, but their tendency toward far-right religion being involved in gov't puts me off. I think I'll start my own party; "Confused Young People who Find Fault with all Previously Created Parties and are Really Lost." :)

As far as party lines go, I seem to agree with the Libertarian party more than anything else. (after that, I'm more democratic than republican). I admit I voted democratic across the board for this election, but I'm not that thrilled with what the republicians have been doing as a whole lately.

I think a lot of us are sick of what we keep seeing from the two major parties, which comes down in the end to following the money -- they vote according to what lobbyists, corporations, or special interests have pressured them to do unless there is enough public outcry to counter-balance it, like in the case of the media consolidation the FCC tried to allow. What we really need are election reform, an informed electorate, and responsive representatives regardless of what the label may say.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I think I'll start my own party; "Confused Young People who Find Fault with all Previously Created Parties and are Really Lost." :)

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now there's a party i might actually be able to find something in common with.

Yeah, when I registered to vote they almost made me declare a party, they really pressured me, but I stood my ground and refused to declare, especially since they only gave me 2 choices. I also resent that they appointed me a race without even asking me what it was, they looked at me and chose one. I didn't even know they were doing that until I got my card and read the detials. Grrr.

That's one good thing about registering in Georgia is that you do not have to declare a party. In fact, there's no space to do so even if you wanted to, though they do still want you declare an ethnicity.

*joins gins party*

I don't like declaring an ethnicity, but if I have to they should have asked me what it was, not just arbitrarily assigned me one based on thier unprofessional evaluation of my external appearance.

I would like to join gins party too! It does get very confusing, but as Marla pointed it, it's all about the almightly dollar and who's paying the bills...sad, but true. We do live in a capitalistic society, so what should we expect but for everything to be driven by money--or how much you can make and horde that is!

Wow thats a lotta points and views!!!

I agree with the same philosophy of "If you don't vote, you can't complain!"

I, myself, voted for Bush... and thats just cuz I've seen his work. But I disagreed with Kerry's Stem Cell Research POV. I don't agree with the use of aborted fetuses for research. It may save lives eventually, but those aborted babies they are doing research on could have been running, walking and talking also. (Nothing against any of you if you've had an abortion) I'm just a strong opinionist against abortion, and because I'm strongly against abortion, I am against stem cell research. There was an article that a woman wrote in a magazine I read awhile ago and she said something about she didnt agree with test tube pregnancies (aka..in vitro fertilization) therefore she wasn't for stem cell research either.

Hmm - here I was under the impression they were from fertility clinics - not abortion clinics.

I just wish we had more forward thinking policies than "WE'LL BURN THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE COME TO IT" what with things not working out as they would ideally due, it seems, to some questionable (if present) planning and strategy approaches.

I just wish things did not have to be perceived as so mutually exclusive and unable to coexist - tons of the great scientists down through history have been people of faith - some of them devoutly so.
(this month's National Geographic has a great article on natural selection etc)

I dont know that all states are that way, but i do know that I did read somewhere that aborted fetuses (if used in time) were used for stem cell research. I'm not saying I am the know all of Stem Cell Research and the use of the aborted fetuses for it... I'm just stating what I read and what I myself know.

I am not against stem cell research, i just think that we should use the stem cells from the spine. From everything I have read they are just as good, if not better than the alternative. We could donate stem cells like we donate blood :) I think there should be some more research into that option.

the only problem with spinal stem cells is that they cannot take as many forms... they can take many but not all forms... a nice alternative however are stem cells from ambilical fluid or placenta.. these stem cells I believe are just as versitle as the fetal stem cells. But feel free to check me on this stuff as I'm just learning about it all myself for a presentation I have to give. :)

I think what you meant there was umbilical cord cells. Or maybe amniotic fluid. Anyhow, from what I understand, cells that come from developing tissues (such as fetal cells, umbilical cells, etc.) are more flexible regarding what they are able to become than other cells, say those already dedicated to liver function.

Yes, I forgot about the umbilicus cells. I feel that if we are going to explore this promising advancement all the options need to be looked into thouroghly. We should look at the umbilicus cells, the spinal cells, and the amniotic cells first, if we can find a way for these to be productive without anyting extra dying to heal the living the world is happier in general.

I forgot about the Umbilical Cord .... I know that they allow you to save the cord blood to help with anything your baby/child will need in the future... but that costs you out the butt! It's very expensive and for those that may want to do it, they may not be able to afford it. If things like that were more affordable, I think that many mothers would go that route. Then, IMO, we wouldnt have to rely on aborted fetuses for research in stem cells. IMO like i said.........