Question

You say to make you money and then its aint about the money......... YOU said.
Thats blowing smoke.


You think I have money? LoL!!!!!!
You make do and figure it out.
She isnt going to produce for you IF YOU are not giving her the correct enviroment.

It all goes together, if you cant understand that then you will continue to have problems.

Again...... She is normal.
Check out the morph section here and expand your knowledge of something you think you want to do.

Question for you: Where are you from?

As far as the morph question goes, they both look normal to me. I own four normals, one being het for albino (which has no visible markers), and while 3 of the four are really dark due to my own personal preferences, my lightest girl has similar dorsal striping to yours. There isn't anything wrong with that now, as every female ball python has a place in a breeding collection. Normal males, not so much. Not that big of a deal, since a multiple gene male can be had for crazy low prices (economics and what have you. TL;DR they're cheaper than females).

Now, as for breeding, which I don't remember if I've chimed in here or not, i would like to point out that the startup cost of a proper breeding setup is not cheap. I'm not totally familiar with what you have as a setup, but it looks like you have the male living with the female? If that's true (and forgive me for saying anything if it isn't) you will need a separate setup for him for when he isn't breeding. Besides some basic husbandry issues that go along with keeping two snakes together so closely, I'm pretty sure the male with quit breeding her after leaving him in there so long, or end up starving himself because he won't quit breeding her (both bad scenarios).

You'll also want an incubator and a place to keep any babies. I suggest a rack at this point, I know there are some blueprints that allow for multiple sizes of tubs in a single system. To give you some idea of price, a simple incubator costs around 70 to 130 dollars (They go higher, but these are the affordable models for people on a budget like you and me). I built a seven slot adult rack for about 200 all things included and am planning on building a multi size rack here very soon. If you're serious about wanting to breed, i would also say budget about 100 dollars for a good male and shop around for some good deals (I paid 100 for a yearling lesser bee and only 75 for a juvenile cinnapin, there are great deals out there!). Plus the cost of food, which is a fairly dramatic factor. You can bulk order and freeze, which comes out to about 50 cents to a dollar per week on hatchlings and about 1.50 a week for adults per week not including shipping (~30$). Buying at local petstores is much more expensive (about double that).

Now, not all of this has to be done at once. I've probably thrown 2000 dollars at my collection and all considered upkeep since August of last year, though I haven't paid more than 200 dollars at once at any given time (usually much less. I also think I have more snakes than you're intending to get). You know how much this will cost now, are you still interested in breeding? If so, first things first; Perfect your husbandry. Take the advice people are offering, and try to swallow the bad with the good. No matter how people choose to word it, the members here ultimately have the best interests of the snakes in mind. Hatchling pythons are not sturdy. Knowing how much all of this is, losing hatchlings is something you do not want to happen (for a variety of reasons, but we're focusing on the monetary aspect right now and a dead hatchling is money down the toilet).

It takes some space, it takes a lot of money, it takes a ton of time. Are you 100% sure this is what you want to do?

Let me put my normal and spider together and see if it will make a pinstripe "hey spiders and pinstripes do look similiar" lmao sorry i had to

I think you are thinking pinstripe because of the long stripe on the end of her tail but that is common I've heard the dorsal stripe called a lot if things but the one that stuck with me is dog bones cuz the long broken up stripe looks like a row of bones end to end, another common patter trait are the side alien heads as some call them some with no eyes some with 3 or 4 some outlined white . there are belly variations from clear to patterned to yellow and blushing and this and that. it is very hard for me to figure out why a $10,000 dollar snake looks very much like my $100 dollar snake but it's so close to mine I have to look at lineage or parents. But from what I have seen in your pics and all the people that know their morphs very well are saying it just a normal. Nothing wrong with that and even if it's not a cash cow, to get those snakes the breed your gonna have to make them happy and comfortable first.

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Originally Posted by myztic24

Let me put my normal and spider together and see if it will make a pinstripe "hey spiders and pinstripes do look similiar" lmao sorry i had to

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Awsome
:gj:

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

Awsome
:gj:

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My wife said to post it she was like wait wait i got one lol

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Originally Posted by myztic24

My wife said to post it she was like wait wait i got one lol

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Does she point and laugh at the short bus too? My sarcasm was lost on you

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

Does she point and laugh at the short bus too? My sarcasm was lost on you

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No i was just tellin her about this post and she said well put this

You could switch to tubs. I use the "Sterilite" 10 Gallon/38 L tubs for some of my snakes and they are cheap. Just add a few air holes, paper and water bowl and all is good. Its a lot cheaper and I find it easier to clean. Do you have any problems with her flipping over her water bowl? Looks like it could flip really easy. From what I've read, looks like MANY people here are trying to really help you. We all needed help when we first started. Take the advice and it will help in the long run!

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

what are you talking about, aint blow smoke up anybodies.....my snakes been good since i bought them just wanted to know about the breeding part not the way i set MY tank up..It's easy for someone that has money to tell a person without money how to take care of their snake, if i had the money i woulda been done it..pinstripe ain't the type morph i want just was saying how it looks like she would produce one, but what does an all white belly mean in the het marker book..??

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You mention money quite a bit. It takes under 100 dollars to have a full setup, if you cannot afford that, you might want to look into a less expensive hobby. I'm not trying to be mean, but a life is dependant on you.

You still haven't read my links either have you?

You sat down with a table of card sharks and your still playing go fish.
Your have to read and collect the general knowledge and terminology yourself and know your stuff just so you can properly phrase a question here and not get slapped around with their vast tomes and scrolls of ball python husbandry. But tread lightly also because when you tell them to be nice they will strike you down with some sort of demerit thing.
That being said your going all in on your fanticy football team without even knowing how many points you get for a touchdown

Analogys by Joe balls available at request

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

You sat down with a table of card sharks and your still playing go fish.
Your have to read and collect the general knowledge and terminology yourself and know your stuff just so you can properly phrase a question here and not get slapped around with their vast tomes and scrolls of ball python husbandry. But tread lightly also because when you tell them to be nice they will strike you down with some sort of demerit thing.
That being said your going all in on your fanticy football team without even knowing how many points you get for a touchdown

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I like that

This is our 2nd year breeding weve kept snakes for 5-6 years and done TONS of research on husbandry and everything take your time learn as much as you can before once you realize it your stuck with 7-8 eggs and your gonna be saying what am i gonna do now. DO your research know what morphs you want to pair up this is where i started out here and World of ball pythons .theres people here to help you

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

so with what ya'll know about different morphs markings on the underbelly, tell me what yall think she look like she's having when i get this breeding thing together..

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She looks like a NORMAL, he looks like a NORMAL, you will get NORMALS.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

what are you talking about, aint blow smoke up anybodies.....my snakes been good since i bought them just wanted to know about the breeding part not the way i set MY tank up..It's easy for someone that has money to tell a person without money how to take care of their snake, if i had the money i woulda been done it..pinstripe ain't the type morph i want just was saying how it looks like she would produce one, but what does an all white belly mean in the het marker book..??

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The problem is your care/setup is part of breeding. I will also admit you have touched a nerve with me. You cant afford a single, good setup (according to you) so your solution is to try and multiply your animals (normals, that will produce normals and sell for close to nothing) and somehow that will make you money in the end....its like saying you dont make enough money at your job so youre going to start having kids because you think that will fix the problem.

Finally, FYI there are a lot of people out there who dont have "money". It doesnt take a lot of money to get a single setup right. If you cant afford the care (again, according to you), dont keep the animals.

I know I said I was thru with this. I quit before I got some sort of infraction on the forum. However I can't take it anymore. Dude everyone here has tried to be of some help to you. You want to breed your snakes,and you asked for advice. However when it's given to you in a helpful way you fight it. There are many of us who have Large collections.Who know what they are doing. You need to accept help when it's given. When this subject started, I felt like you needed help. It's good to ask questions, however when the answer is not what you want don't fight it. And yes do some reading on the subject. And no REAL BOOKS are not for old people. Everyone wants the easy way out. Life is not easy. please do your homework and then if you have questions ask. However you must be willing to accept the answers you get when it comes from experienced individuals. Other wise why waste our time. Again I'am sorry but I just could not take it any more. We are only concerned about the well being of your snakes as you should also be. You have to crawl before you walk. We have only tried to help.:oops:

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

I know I said I was thru with this. I quit before I got some sort of infraction on the forum. However I can't take it anymore. Dude everyone here has tried to be of some help to you. You want to breed your snakes,and you asked for advice. However when it's given to you in a helpful way you fight it. There are many of us who have Large collections.Who know what they are doing. You need to accept help when it's given. When this subject started, I felt like you needed help. It's good to ask questions, however when the answer is not what you want don't fight it. And yes do some reading on the subject. And no REAL BOOKS are not for old people. Everyone wants the easy way out. Life is not easy. please do your homework and then if you have questions ask. However you must be willing to accept the answers you get when it comes from experienced individuals. Other wise why waste our time. Again I'am sorry but I just could not take it any more. We are only concerned about the well being of your snakes as you should also be. You have to crawl before you walk. We have only tried to help.:oops:

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Hahaha I wansnt suggesting books were for old people just that some of the same books on ball pythons are also avalibel as a e book or on a I pad for the paperless generation.:) Books are very useful

Relevant excerpt from a book (for us "old" folks apparently) written by a guy who knows a thing or two about keeping ball pythons:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...91a64cdc98.jpg

Before I even start this rant I will go ahead and apologize for my horrible grammar. Yes this is nothing more than a rant, so if you don't have the time to read the mumbles of a semi-sane person please feel free to skip over this post.

There has been mention of members on here being condescending towards "newbs". I will agree that there are some who do get a little short with people from time to time, its hard to avoid that when there are things being done that are blatantly negative towards their pets though. (Tape, Unchecked Temps, Etc.) No one is expected to know everything when they first start, but when all the information is literally one click away there is no excuse not to learn. There really is no excuse when someone is even kind enough to give you the information and you don't even take the time to read it.

People expecting others to use their own time to help them when they have already show that they downright refuse to use their time to even attempt to learn on their own is the reason for the sometimes negative attitude on threads like this.

Times are tight? Worst time to even consider breeding snakes, especially bad time to try and work out a dinker project. Breeding two normals together hoping to get lucky and get a morph? Save time headache and money..buy a lottery ticket...it has better odds. Getting a male pied to breed to a normal female to "see what you will get"...you will get snakes that look normal that carry the gene to make other piebalds.

I am the worst person to tell you what to do as I am a firm believer in doing what works for you (I don't use hotspots, don't use hides, feed live, temps never change, etc, etc) I do however think that basic research should be done before you begin your ventures, that way if something you try fails you will not only know why but will have the knowledge in hand to fix it.

My very 100% normal male has dorsal striping. He's also got cute little spots on his head that are as far as I've seen fairly unique to him. Not a hidden gene, he just is a cool looking normal.

you know what, i see why people get killed in life now for NOT knowing who they cracking jokes on, on a serious subject to that person..AINT come on here for the jokes if i wanted jokes i'd watch def comedy jam or something.. people cracking jokes DON'T know ANYTHING about me or how i get money so there is no need for the comments about me supporting my snakes, BOTTOM LINE This breeding thing is NEW to me, that's all i was asking and it ONLY TAKES 1 person to rant/vent not the whole community i didn't read anything in the TOS stating if you post the wrong thing AVALANCHES can and will occur..EVERY PERSON IN THIS FORUM started from the bottom and now your at where your at, now would you like 1,342 people to avalanche a post with nothing meaningful to say to that persons post, gonna let erryyyone<-----(Country accent) know something, even YOU don't know erryything<-----(Country accent) about ball pythons that you think you do, LOOKS can be deceiving how do you think all these morphs are coming/came into the picture and who know i could have the missing puzzle pieces to complete the puzzle.. just cuz you bred once DON'T make you an expert... YA'LL MADE THIS SIDE COME OUT, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME THEN KEEP THE JOKES TO YOURSELF, JUST SAYING....!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

YA'LL MADE THIS SIDE COME OUT, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME THEN KEEP THE JOKES TO YOURSELF, JUST SAYING....!!!!!!

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YOU chose to post on a public forum
YOU chose to post what you did
YOU chose to argue about information given to you

Do we see the common denominator here??
You have people trying to give you sound advice to get YOUR plans moving along.
If you don't want the advice then you probably picked the wrong place to post, a spiral and crayon might better serve you.
You then want to complain that you don't have any money to do things correctly, guess what buddy IT COST MONEY!!!
You breed your 2 normal, get 10 eggs................. You need money to buy or build a bator, then IF you manage not to kill them you need more money for food to now feed 12 snakes. If you get to this point YOU now have a clutch of normal that is worth $10 to $30 each IF you are lucky.
You again are making the choices here regardless of the information that people are trying to pass on to you.

So as far as making you a joke? Pull up your big boy pants and thicken up your skin, this is a public place and there has not been a TOS violation posted.
This community is very passionate about our chosen hobby.
Your posts speak for yourself.

Listen Echo.. I'll be really serious.
When I got my first snake, no internet, no forums, even the phone calls was expensive. Started in the bottom? Yes... I travel by bus/train 2-3 hours to the zoo or the "big keepers" (today is ridiculous) to speak with people who know much more than me, and where can get the most information possible. (At this time the ball python breeding was something hard. Without the correct knowledge the captive breeding was rarely successful.) In few years my brain became a complete database of the scientific name hundreds and hundreds of species, the correct temperature, habitat, origin, venom type, and every stuff what I found interesting and useful. I had 50+snakes, some iguanas, geccos, chameleons, spiders, scorpion (interesting but ball python never.. ). I bred my own rats, mice, worms, flies, silkies and everything what I can. We didn't know about rack systems, so I kept my animals in terrariums. Almost every piece made by hand, cause the originals was too expensive. What I won with the breeding is gone for the heating, lightning and food for them. All my pocket money for the animals. Later when I started to working, even a good part of my salary for the animals. All of my free time, before and after the school or work, I cleaning cages, build new ones, feed my reptiles, read books and scientific articles to learn and note everything what I can. That's fine. I like every second, and even today I learn more and more, especially now when I started to keep ball pythons what I never did before.

So you think people joking with you here?

You say just the breeding part is new for you?
You kept your snakes in gravel inside a small fishtank. Everyone in here seriously tried to correct your poor husbandry to help you out.
To breeding? Try it. I wish from all of my heart the success. Doesn't matter the morph. Even the pipping of the normals is every time beautiful and exiting. Just I hope you started to feel that is not just a hobby, and nothing with the money. In the age of the internet every information and every help what you have make that much more easier...

(...and all of that with Hungarian accent...)

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

...rant...

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I can't say this any better than it's been said before, so I'll let this quote speak for me:
~ "Be the change that you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi ~

I just have one question for you. How do you know that you have a male and female?

What reason do you have to be upset? Your question has been answered at least twice in here. The others are pointing out the flaws in your husbandry. If you want your breeding to go well, your husbandry has to be correct and right now its not. And from your replies, you have limited knowledge of genetics and you're pairings will not produce what you hope. You're just playing a guessing game like they did 20 years ago. Get your husbandry right, start with some visuals and produce from there. Use the knowledge that others have already gained. Work smarter not harder

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

I just have one question for you. How do you know that you have a male and female?

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I second this how do you know

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

you know what, i see why people get killed in life now for NOT knowing who they cracking jokes on, on a serious subject to that person..AINT come on here for the jokes if i wanted jokes i'd watch def comedy jam or something.. people cracking jokes DON'T know ANYTHING about me or how i get money so there is no need for the comments about me supporting my snakes, BOTTOM LINE This breeding thing is NEW to me, that's all i was asking and it ONLY TAKES 1 person to rant/vent not the whole community i didn't read anything in the TOS stating if you post the wrong thing AVALANCHES can and will occur..EVERY PERSON IN THIS FORUM started from the bottom and now your at where your at, now would you like 1,342 people to avalanche a post with nothing meaningful to say to that persons post, gonna let erryyyone<-----(Country accent) know something, even YOU don't know erryything<-----(Country accent) about ball pythons that you think you do, LOOKS can be deceiving how do you think all these morphs are coming/came into the picture and who know i could have the missing puzzle pieces to complete the puzzle.. just cuz you bred once DON'T make you an expert... YA'LL MADE THIS SIDE COME OUT, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME THEN KEEP THE JOKES TO YOURSELF, JUST SAYING....!!!!!!

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science is leaps and bounds ahead of where you think it is. experience with breeding has nothing to do with it, it is science that been built upon since 1831. For the third time read the links I provided you, its not a joke, it pertains to your exact situation. I know you are not reading them because you still keep making ignorant comments..... or do the people that actually study this stuff for a living not know what they are talking about either?

as for the rest of your rant, very childish.

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

I just have one question for you. How do you know that you have a male and female?

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I was thinking that from the beginning if your confused on the type are you maybe confused about the sex also? If they have been together for 5 years and you have never had any eggs the husbandry isn't correct or maybe have two girl or two boys?

There is no food stamps for snakes adding more mouths is not a good idea

Now how is your comment helpful. ( Food stamps) really.:mad: What are you trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Tigerhawk

Now how is your comment helpful. ( Food stamps) really.:mad: What are you trying to say.

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I think that was a reference to my previous comment.

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Originally Posted by aalomon

....its like saying you dont make enough money at your job so youre going to start having kids because you think that will fix the problem.

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