Thought I'd better introduce myself as things seem to be a bit shaky .

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Originally Posted by John1982

Now, pictures like that would make acceptable ammunition for your anti-live campaigns. At least it's a "wound" that occurred during a feeding time strike unlike your last choice. Just have to find a way to spin this out of proportion and make it seem like that snake is on death's door.

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As I said at the time , that horrendous injury to the Royal python ( in the photo I posted ) actually WAS an injury from live feeding - albeit unattended which I'm fairly certain some still do given the time constraints of our modern lives .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

As I said at the time , that horrendous injury to the Royal python ( in the photo I posted ) actually WAS an injury from live feeding - albeit unattended which I'm fairly certain some still do given the time constraints of our modern lives .

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Wrong, just because the keeper thought it was a feeding doesn't make it so. A proper feeding of live includes a snake in hunt mode, appropriate prey(size and type), appropriate offering method, appropriate supervision. I'm 100% certain some of these integral pieces of the puzzle were missing and wouldn't be surprised if all were. If you don't have time to turn off the stove, have a bowl of cereal.

Since you seem to know so much about the situation surrounding the original photo please post a link so I can enlighten myself. I found the bit on the irish forums but they just posted the pictured saying it was from some american forum with no further details. They didn't even know if it was a rat or mouse injury - just some rodent.

I think you'll find it challenging to find the original source for most of these "feeding massacre" pictures. Out of millions of snake photos on the internet there are only a handful of these chewed up shots available. The pickings for anti-live propaganda pictures are so slim that available material has been regurgitated to the extent that the original source is all but impossible to locate. If and when you do find some I think you'll see that in every occurence a rodent was left for an extended period of time with the snake, unsupervised. Again, this is not a "feeding" as any responsible keeper knows.

I have absolutely no problem with live feeding, but I do have a problem with people who post live feeding videos to YouTube or Vimeo, particularly with heavy metal music playing in the background (where an animal's death is apparently being celebrated). I also have a problem with people feeding captive ball pythons to North American kingsnakes, whether they post videos or not. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

Zinc, welcome to the forum. I read every post and I think running elk has had some particularly insightful things to say on this thread. I hope you continue to enjoy the forum and share your photos. I spend most of my time here keeping my opinion to myself on husbandry/feeding but feel free to comment on pictures/questions. I think it's unfair to bring a live vs f/t debate to this thread when the OP has stated numerous times that he has avoided commenting on those threads specifically for this reason. Everyone has an opinion, any animal can kill another animal. There's no need to shove it in the OP's face when there has already been posts where people provided input on how to set a positive tone and get positive feedback going forward.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

a live , proven killing machine ( adult rat ) who's going to fight for it's life INTO an enclosed area WITH the snake .

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More irrational fear mongering from a person who has never once fed a live animal to a snake.

Attempting to scare newbies into agreeing with you because they don't know better and it makes you feel better is a pretty poor thing to do.

Here are my thoughts on live feeding. At this point I don't do if for a simple reason. My Tegu and Childrens Python both readily accept F/T so it is easier for me to keep a stock pile in the freezer. When I first started keeping snakes as a kid there really wasn't any place around me that sold F/T so I had to feed live (which meant weekly trips to the shop to get a mouse). Before I even got my first snake the store owner told me that feeding live wasn't just throwing the mouse/rat in the tank and walking away. He said "you have to watch and be ready to interject if something goes wrong, and possibly take a bite from either animal. If you aren't willing to do that, then maybe you want something different." So from the beginning I was lucky enough to have a reptile shop around me that actually cared. So for about 5 years I was feeding live and didn't have one accident. There is a right and wrong way to do everything.

On am off-note, thank you to everyone who is patient and acknowledges the fact that, yes, Aspergers DOES effect the way we communicate. For the longest time, I have been afraid to mention it and I know some of my posts about my animal care come on strong or seem awkward but I can't help it x.x So, thank you for your educated, non-judgmental responses.

1.2 Normal
1.1 Red-tail
0.1 Albino corn

Can we please not turn this thread to another f/t vs live debate?

BTW this is not a request but a first and FINAL warning any additional feeding posts in this thread will be removed and merged to the already existing one.

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Originally Posted by SCWood

On am off-note, thank you to everyone who is patient and acknowledges the fact that, yes, Aspergers DOES effect the way we communicate. For the longest time, I have been afraid to mention it and I know some of my posts about my animal care come on strong or seem awkward but I can't help it x.x So, thank you for your educated, non-judgmental responses.

1.2 Normal
1.1 Red-tail
0.1 Albino corn

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Nice to hear from you ... it's certainly not easy admitting that you / we are different from the " norm " but I've always been upfront about my Aspergers and most seem to understand or at least cut me a bit of slack , sadly not everyone .

Thankfully there are positives that come with the many negatives as regards to Aspergers .

Yes! I had a recent diagnosis and was startled to say the least...luckily, my workplace is familiar with it and they actually kind of suspected it already and they don't treat me any differently ^^

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Originally Posted by SCWood

Yes! I had a recent diagnosis and was startled to say the least...luckily, my workplace is familiar with it and they actually kind of suspected it already and they don't treat me any differently ^^

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Well funnily enough , there is a website purely for us " weirdos " :)

I've sent you the link via PM .

Welcome to the forums. You should create a post with the pictures of your collection. I would love to see them. Dont stress out over the negative comments. Unfortunatly everywhere you go there are going to be some negative people and/or negative comments made towards you or a thought or idea you may have. In my experience it is better to just ignore them and move on. You should not stop posting just because of a negative situation. I would say doing what you said in staying away from the type of posts and/or conversations that you think might be stressful to yourself or that may start a battle even unintentionally might be the best course of action. But everyone has different knowledge with reguards to the care of their animals and your knowledge may help others and/or at least provide other views, options and experiences that people newer to reptiles may not have and may need.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Nice to hear from you ... it's certainly not easy admitting that you / we are different from the " norm " but I've always been upfront about my Aspergers and most seem to understand or at least cut me a bit of slack , sadly not everyone .

Thankfully there are positives that come with the many negatives as regards to Aspergers .

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There are some of us that treat everyone equally.
Everything in life consists of choices to everyone.
I don't treat anyone special, here or in my real life.

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

I have absolutely no problem with live feeding, but I do have a problem with people who post live feeding videos to YouTube or Vimeo, particularly with heavy metal music playing in the background (where an animal's death is apparently being celebrated). I also have a problem with people feeding captive ball pythons to North American kingsnakes, whether they post videos or not. That's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

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Just an informational post about the different culture over here;

While live feeding videos don't annoy me in themselves the tone of them is vital over here. Feeding live is legal but celebrating the death aspect or using it in a way designed for entertainment is actually illegal. Bit of a minefield to judge but if you post a video cheering the snake on and denigrating the mouse, then cheer when the snake kills it, could result in you being prosecuted and prevented from keeping any animal ever again.

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Originally Posted by goddessbaby

Zinc, welcome to the forum. I read every post and I think running elk has had some particularly insightful things to say on this thread. I hope you continue to enjoy the forum and share your photos. I spend most of my time here keeping my opinion to myself on husbandry/feeding but feel free to comment on pictures/questions. I think it's unfair to bring a live vs f/t debate to this thread when the OP has stated numerous times that he has avoided commenting on those threads specifically for this reason. Everyone has an opinion, any animal can kill another animal. There's no need to shove it in the OP's face when there has already been posts where people provided input on how to set a positive tone and get positive feedback going forward.

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Thank you for the kind words ... I will try and post a few pix :)

Here's my proven adult male Snow who's probably the jewel in my collection , certainly the costliest and most valuable money-wise.

He's the poster- boy Snow Boa of the well respected John Berry Designer Boa Morph books .

He's around 6 years old and approaching 7' long and very calm and friendly .

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps500848fd.png

This next one is a unique looking Hybrid . Listed as an Imperial Peublan .

As I understand he's a mix of a Cali King and a Pueblan Milk . Has a lovely calm temperament and he's a CB12.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...pseacac121.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psf0a21088.jpg

Next in line is my beautiful Dwarf Hypo Burmese python ... currently about 20" and around 12 month sold . Lovely temperament .

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps57610398.png

I saw that king on your photobucket.
He is sexxxxxy!! :bow:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I saw that king on your photobucket.
He is sexxxxxy!! :bow:

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I've got high hopes for him , he's a beautifully calm and friendly boy and around 24" but when he's much bigger I've been advised by a friend in the TV business that he will be in demand for snake placement in TV plays / commercials and the like - even media events .

I'll always have a soft spot for burms and your hypo is a looker.

I have always been partial to Ball Pythons but you have some beautiful snakes and that is an amazing Imperial Peublan

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Originally Posted by John1982

I'll always have a soft spot for burms and your hypo is a looker.

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Thank you ... He's a lovely little lad . I've always loved Burms and Hypo ones in particular but I really can't manage a huge Burm and just got lucky when I came upon this little Dwarf . His Dwarf mum is only 8' and Dwarf dad is only 5' so I'm hopeful for him staying around 6' .

Last up for the time being is my lovely little Rhino Ratsnake .... he's about 6 months old and hasn't developed his adult bright greenish colour as yet.
He's rather cute though , non the less :)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psb0fc1cc4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Drake Moonslayer

I have always been partial to Ball Pythons but you have some beautiful snakes and that is an amazing Imperial Peublan

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Thank you .... he could prove to be priceless as there will NEVER be one exactly the same as him .

Designer morphs are the future :)

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

This next one is a unique looking Hybrid . Listed as an Imperial Peublan .

As I understand he's a mix of a Cali King and a Pueblan Milk . Has a lovely calm temperament and he's a CB12.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...pseacac121.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psf0a21088.jpg

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That is an absolutly amazing looking snake.... are you saying its a mix of a king snake and a milk snake? Or is pueblan milk a type of king snake ive some how neglected

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Originally Posted by M.P.C

That is an absolutly amazing looking snake.... are you saying its a mix of a king snake and a milk snake? Or is pueblan milk a type of king snake ive some how neglected

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Yes it's a mix of a King x Milk known as an Imperial Peublan for some reason .

Many people hate hybrids but when they look like this one , I really don't see the problem.

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Originally Posted by John1982

I'll always have a soft spot for burms and your hypo is a looker.

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Just found another couple of him . Crazy to see a Burm not much bigger than a biro / ballpoint pen.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps4ef71680.png

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps7769fb9f.png

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Originally Posted by M.P.C

That is an absolutly amazing looking snake.... are you saying its a mix of a king snake and a milk snake? Or is pueblan milk a type of king snake ive some how neglected

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All milk snakes are king snakes but not all king snakes are milk snakes. They're both in the Lampropeltis genus with milk snakes being further classified into the species triangulum. There are plenty of milk snake subspecies but they're all L. t. something-or-other.

So glad you finally decided to put pics up here!!! They are lovely!!! The Snow Boa was something I hadn't seen before. And that Pueblan is super neat, what a color mix. But I think my fav so far is the Burm. Wow. I want one of those... The full size ones are pretty big, but that dwarf is gorgeous and a good size... :bow::bow::bow:

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

So glad you finally decided to put pics up here!!! They are lovely!!! The Snow Boa was something I hadn't seen before. And that Pueblan is super neat, what a color mix. But I think my fav so far is the Burm. Wow. I want one of those... The full size ones are pretty big, but that dwarf is gorgeous and a good size... :bow::bow::bow:

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Thank you for those kind words - everyone has been really nice about them as you can see :)

I will try and post the others up at some stage .

As regards the Snow Boa he really is spectacular looking .. I love the kind of motley mix of brilliant white and vibrant yellow tones .. He was the totally white as a hatchling and the brightest , whitest the breeder had ever seen ..... Apparently the Snows all start off totally white and the yellow comes as they age . I prefer it myself as ALL white snakes look rather washed out and bland to my mind .
In Royal / Ball pythons the all white BEL ones do nothing for me at all but I LOVE the Albinos and Pieds !!

Just a matter of taste I guess .

Nice looking collection! On a side note did I read somewhere that you are in Ireland?

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Nice looking collection! On a side note did I read somewhere that you are in Ireland?

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Manchester , England . ... My son lives in Florida though ... I frequent the Reptile Community forum ( Irish forum ).

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

So glad you finally decided to put pics up here!!! They are lovely!!! The Snow Boa was something I hadn't seen before. And that Pueblan is super neat, what a color mix. But I think my fav so far is the Burm. Wow. I want one of those... The full size ones are pretty big, but that dwarf is gorgeous and a good size... :bow::bow::bow:

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Thank you ..... Here's another shot of the Snow Boa ...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps9f049c31.jpg

Just found a rather poor photo of one of my two Albino Royals .....

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps0e3972d9.jpg

My other obsessions ( still can't edit ) ..... All types of Music , football / soccer , Movies and TV , MotoGP and frequenting forums .

Did I mention I'm an Aspie ( Aspergers ) plus I'm obsessive :)

I too have seen some people here lose their mind over nothing -simple questions or simple opinions- and I can't help but wonder if they've ever had to communicate with another human outside of the internet. It's always amazing to see a person who considers themselves an adult act like a 5 year old who had their candy taken away. There are pathetic humans everywhere and they love frequenting online forums, apparently they love to let their inner idiot shine a lot.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

My other obsessions ( still can't edit ) .....

Did I mention I'm an Aspie ( Aspergers ) plus I'm obsessive :)

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Yes, you have said so many times.......

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Hey .. I'm getting the distinct feeling of "unwelcomeness" in this forum for some reason ... Something I've NEVER come across in all my years of frequenting forums .

I've had a few 'biting' comments thrown my way since I ventured in here a few weeks ago and I really don't understand what the issue is .... I've admitted MANY times in here that I'm not an expert on anything but I have had many years of successful snake keeping .... I currently own 17 snakes of different types and in all my time I've never had a snake die on me . I had one with an RI many years ago and was lucky enough to be able to cure it myself by nebulising F10 for a couple of weeks.

Any advice I have suggested / posted has either been from my experiences or my friends .

Just think you need to cut the new guys a bit of slack .... I' m a real nice guy

Currently have .

1 Snow Boa - 7' adult - the featured Snow Boa in John Berry's Designer Boa Morphs .
1 Dwarf Hypo Burmese Python
2 HC Albino Royal Pythons ( unrelated pair )
1 Pastel Royal Python
1 Rhino- nosed rat snake
1 Red Mountain Bamboo rat snake.
I Imperial Pueblan Hybrid ( King x Milk)
1 Amel Stripe aduit Corn snake
1 Banded Cali King
1 Albino Striped Cali King
1 Desert King
4 Garter snakes ( I Melanistic 'Black' and 3 Albino Chequered Garters)


I have Aspergers ( form of autism ) and have worked in education for 19 years helping autistic teenagers to survive the torture of secondary / high school .

I'm a real nice guy ..honestly !!

Please excuse my obsessiveness any poor spelling / grammar ....it comes with Aspergers , sadly .

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Honestly, people on this forum can be jerks, especially to newbies. Being a newbie is a good thing in my opinion, I love seeing new people on the forum searching for answers and information. Some of the more veteran owners think they know it all and know EXACTLY how a snake should be cared for, when there is actually a bit of leeway. What works best for you works best for you. There are some things that need to be avoided for your snakes safety, but as far as everything else goes, there is no ONE way to do anything.

I just found this subforum and thread and ...


http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/d7e/bc4...nts-5c6f5a.jpg

Well , we appear to be back to square one again .....

I've had my knuckles rapped , so to speak and I will now endeavour to stay with the guidelines / rules of the forum in future .

I would reiterate that , at no time have I , nor will I ever intend to upset or antagonise any "innocent" party / parties our there .


However , it does feel that every little thing I post now is being scrutinised and quite often criticised ...
As I've said previously ...... I'm a real nice guy .

Why are you back to square one?
We all are here to express, learn and expand our knowledge.
Sometimes its not what you type but how you type it. :gj:

Number of dudes I've had tell me they were "nice guys": I've lost count at this point.

Number of those dudes that turned out to be actually nice guys: exactly none of them.

I mean, that's probably not relevant, but still, lived experience. Niceness is determined through actions, how you treat other people. I can tell you right now whether you intend it to show up or not, the snide sort of condescending tone that pops up in most of your posts when there's a dispute in husbandry practices is what rubs people the wrong way. Maybe try to watch for that and you're interactions will go smoother?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Number of dudes I've had tell me they were "nice guys": I've lost count at this point.

Number of those dudes that turned out to be actually nice guys: exactly none of them.

I mean, that's probably not relevant, but still, lived experience. Niceness is determined through actions, how you treat other people. I can tell you right now whether you intend it to show up or not, the snide sort of condescending tone that pops up in most of your posts when there's a dispute in husbandry practices is what rubs people the wrong way. Maybe try to watch for that and you're interactions will go smoother?

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The trouble is I just don't 'see' what you're clearly seeing ... similarly I apparently mispronounce some words , by putting the emphasis on the wrong part of the word or something like that - just to give an example of my difficulties - its just part of Aspergers .

I've never , ever , been accused of being condescending in the real world so that's kinda strange to hear you suggest it .


I certainly would never want to appear condescending that's for certain .

As to the other point ..... I truly am a nice guy :)

You don't manage to work with autistic teenagers for 20 years by being anything other than being patient and caring , understanding , dedicated to helping and genuinely nice .... anything other than the above and the kids themselves would sense it and see through any facade .

Thank you so much for trying to help out ..

The internet can be a harsh experience.

I left a political forum a few months ago over how another departing member was treated. Decided I'd had enough of being around smug, nasty, narrow minded people. This place is a welcome retreat compared to THAT place (...pit of vipers, metaphorically speaking :P)

Not everyone is going to get along.
Try not to let someone else's snark bother you.

The Internet is rife with miscommunication. Sometimes it is helpful just to sit back and digest other people's posts, consider different view points and tone before firing back a reply. Communicating is hard enough in person, let alone on a forum.

Even Pitontheprowl and I manage to agree on things now and again.:gj:

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Even Pitontheprowl and I manage to agree on things now and again.:gj:

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:handshake

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

The Internet is rife with miscommunication. Sometimes it is helpful just to sit back and digest other people's posts, consider different view points and tone before firing back a reply. Communicating is hard enough in PERSON , let alone on a forum.

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Ive just been reading through these last posts again and when I got to yours I read PERSON as PRISON !!



See what I'm up against , fellas ?!?!?

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Ive just been reading through these last posts again and when I got to yours I read PERSON as PRISON !!



See what I'm up against , fellas ?!?!?

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HA. I guess it would make sense either way. I mean, communicating with people in person is hard, but I imagine it would be doubly so in prison.