First ball python!!

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

So, to all of you thinking that I'm going to cook my snake, I'm actually having trouble keeping the tank warm enough.

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You're completely missing the point. :frustrate

If he doesn't have properly regulated belly heat...nothing to do with a basking light like for lizards, he's going to burn from it being to hot or not digest properly cuz no belly heat. By his is what I've read, someone correct me if I'm wrong please.


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Actually if you are running something like a RHP, you don't "need" belly heat from a UTH. I've had my boa for 2 years since she was about 8 weeks old and I have never used UTH for her. I have her in a 48x23x14 Proline cage with a Pro products RHP on a Herpstat one and she has done perfect, almost too perfect as she is overweight at the moment :P The flip side is that even with a UTH, you might still need a RHP or CHE as UTH don't heat the ambient air. Now for my 7 week old BP, I do have her on a UTH and CHE but its a temporary tank as I will be getting her either an Animal Plastics or Proline cage in spring when she outgrows her 20 gallon tank and is more settled in. In that case, like my boa, I will probably just run RHP on a Herpstat as well. Regardless though, to beat a dead horse, you need a thermostat or at the least a rheostat for any heat source for a snake.

A person is 98degrees and the heat pad should only be around 90 so it should never feel hot when your hand is on it. I have 5 of the exact same UTH (purchased this year)and they all get well over 110degrees without a thermostat. I live in western washington state and its cold. Plus your tank would be hot with the heat sources and be well over 26 degrees Celsius if you want to go by that. Everyone is just trying to help because we have all been there

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Originally Posted by thegamejr

A person is 98degrees and the heat pad should only be around 90 so it should never feel hot when your hand is on it.

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You're partially correct. The inside of a person is 98 degrees. Hands tend to be cooler - around 90 if I remember correctly, but that varies based on external temperatures. Because of this, sometimes 90 will feel warm and sometimes it will not.

Your conclusion is correct though - a reliable thermostat is a MUCH better indicator of temperature than the human body.

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Originally Posted by calmolly1

If he doesn't have properly regulated belly heat...nothing to do with a basking light like for lizards, he's going to burn from it being to hot or not digest properly cuz no belly heat. By his is what I've read, someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

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The point is... If you use an unregulated UTH, even if the temps are perfect for a few days/months you are running the risk of a most likely malfunction that will cause harm. The t-stat isn't a back up plan it is a life saver...:fishslap:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Actually if you are running something like a RHP, you don't "need" belly heat from a UTH. I've had my boa for 2 years since she was about 8 weeks old and I have never used UTH for her. I have her in a 48x23x14 Proline cage with a Pro products RHP on a Herpstat one and she has done perfect, almost too perfect as she is overweight at the moment :P The flip side is that even with a UTH, you might still need a RHP or CHE as UTH don't heat the ambient air. Now for my 7 week old BP, I do have her on a UTH and CHE but its a temporary tank as I will be getting her either an Animal Plastics or Proline cage in spring when she outgrows her 20 gallon tank and is more settled in. In that case, like my boa, I will probably just run RHP on a Herpstat as well. Regardless though, to beat a dead horse, you need a thermostat or at the least a rheostat for any heat source for a snake.

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You don't have to use a UTH at all. My snakes are kept in a room that is 79 at night and 82 during the day all year around. (and no it's not a Florida thing, it has already been in the 20's outside)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

You're partially correct. The inside of a person is 98 degrees. Hands tend to be cooler - around 90 if I remember correctly, but that varies based on external temperatures. Because of this, sometimes 90 will feel warm and sometimes it will not.

Your conclusion is correct though - a reliable thermostat is a MUCH better indicator of temperature than the human body.

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Yeah i thought about that after i posted but points the same ha

Oh gosh the 20's? You mean like plus 20 Celsius?! Lucky! Where I live it's already gotten down to -40, no joke.


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@Viol8r
True. I just use a UTH in my BP cage because I put the water bowl half on top of the UTH and it keeps humidity around 60%. If it wasn't for that sole reason, I would just run the CHE till Dot grew bigger, then put her in the Animal Plastics or Proline cage which holds 60% humidity without even trying. For me though, the ambient temps in the room are around 75 degrees in winter which is a little cooler than yours. But I agree, like I said, I never ran a UTH for my red tail boa but I also started her off in the 48x23x14 Proline as a 8 week old baby but she was much more bold as a baby than than this little 7 week old BP.

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

Oh gosh the 20's? You mean like plus 20 Celsius?! Lucky! Where I live it's already gotten down to -40, no joke.

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Once again, missing the point... The point was Florida isn't 80 all year long. I know your colder up there. That's why I would never live there. I've never met any one in the U.S. that uses celcius...

How old are you??? I think the answer to that question might shed some light to most of your posts....

I'm 15. Maybe Florida isn't 80 all year long, but it's a whole lot warmer in winter than it is here. Everyone I know has always used Celsius.


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Originally Posted by gameonpython

I'm 15. Maybe Florida isn't 80 all year long, but it's a whole lot warmer in winter than it is here. Everyone I know has always used Celsius.


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This explains everything. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2Nm50hwzPH...0/facepalm.png

I thought this forum was kid friendly


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We were all young dumb and full of it at one point. Let's not bash on him or his age. Sucks when you become the oddball.

Listen man, just grab this http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...den+thermostat

Regardless of how hot it gets outside or inside. Wherever you live Antarctica or Cuba. You need a thermostat. If his Temps get over 92 for extended times it can cause brain damage. If he pees or poops and is sitting in it then he will get rashes and burns. Don't you want to see marshal 5 ft long and happy and healthy. I promise it will cost you more over time if you don't get it

I use that therm. You can get them at garden supply stores as a seedling mat thermostat. Or at a pet store for 5$ more relableded for reptiles. From one stubborn bastard to another, grab it bro. You will be happy. Marshall will be happy.

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

I thought this forum was kid friendly


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It explains why you aren't taking anyone's advice. You're young and stubborn. Just buy a thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

It explains why you aren't taking anyone's advice. You're young and stubborn. Just buy a thermostat.

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Woah dude.
Too far, calm down. This fellow kid (im 13) is probably confused and is new to the world of reptiles. Although this does not justify him not buying a thermostat, just take it down a notch, its becoming to the point where you're hurting and not helping, i.e. the bashing is going to make him/her not want to use the advice you've given to them.

I like you Mr hognose. Hope more kids are mature like you. Props.

From a 51 year old kid I agree. Just everyone chill, no pun intended. Get a thermostat dude. You snake will thank you for it. Now as far as ambient temps go you are gonna struggle up there. My house is old and drafty and I literally used duck tape to seal around windows and stuff. Your parents probably will kill you but if you get a good space heater and seal the room some you will make it easier. And without going back over the entire thread I can't remember if anyone advised using insulation around three sides of the tank and a wood top over the screen with cutouts for lamps. Helps a lot!


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Originally Posted by Sir Hognose

Woah dude.
Too far, calm down. This fellow kid (im 13) is probably confused and is new to the world of reptiles. Although this does not justify him not buying a thermostat, just take it down a notch, its becoming to the point where you're hurting and not helping, i.e. the bashing is going to make him/her not want to use the advice you've given to them.

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Thank You!


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Honestly what I'm doing is working perfectly. Heat pad with a few layers of insulating paper towel on top and it makes for a perfect temp!


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Originally Posted by calmolly1

From a 51 year old kid I agree. Just everyone chill, no pun intended. Get a thermostat dude. You snake will thank you for it. Now as far as ambient temps go you are gonna struggle up there. My house is old and drafty and I literally used duck tape to seal around windows and stuff. Your parents probably will kill you but if you get a good space heater and seal the room some you will make it easier. And without going back over the entire thread I can't remember if anyone advised using insulation around three sides of the tank and a wood top over the screen with cutouts for lamps. Helps a lot!


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Thank you as well. :)


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Okay bud. But mats fail. More often then not. We are not saying it isn't working. We are saying one day you will get home and have a Marshall fried egg. They can malfunction and shoot up to 120 instantly. Your thermostat will save Marshalls life when this happens by shutting it off.

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Originally Posted by Sir Hognose

Woah dude.
Too far, calm down. This fellow kid (im 13) is probably confused and is new to the world of reptiles. Although this does not justify him not buying a thermostat, just take it down a notch, its becoming to the point where you're hurting and not helping, i.e. the bashing is going to make him/her not want to use the advice you've given to them.

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

We were all young dumb and full of it at one point. Let's not bash on him or his age. Sucks when you become the oddball.

Listen man, just grab this http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...den+thermostat

Regardless of how hot it gets outside or inside. Wherever you live Antarctica or Cuba. You need a thermostat. If his Temps get over 92 for extended times it can cause brain damage. If he pees or poops and is sitting in it then he will get rashes and burns. Don't you want to see marshal 5 ft long and happy and healthy. I promise it will cost you more over time if you don't get it

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I believe this comment to be too far. I basically said the same thing without saying that the OP was full of it. Look, I'm a high school teacher, and I haven't met/taught one 15-year-old who isn't young and stubborn. I'm simply speaking from experience and from the fact that OP is so resistant to getting a thermostat. Literally everyone is telling her to get one, even forum admins are telling her to get one and she's still saying, "my setup is working just fine! :) Tee hee LOL. I live in Alberta so UTH's are fail-proof up here :)" She doesn't get it and unfortunately won't get it until the UTH fails and cooks her snake - i.e. young and stubborn.

Its ok, as she he wants to learn the lesson the hard way, let time take it's course, I forsee a vet visit in a month or two.

I think you guys aren't getting it. I'm not just some dumb kid. I have done research, I have talked to people, and joined a forum( I hate forums). This forum is the only resource that has told me to get a thermostat. I don't take caring for an animal lightly. I have cared for other reptiles/amphibians as well, which are all very healthy and doing great. I am confident that Marshall will do just as great with the care I am providing him.


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Do you have access to an infrared thermometer?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Do you have access to an infrared thermometer?

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Nope.


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Do a google img search for belly burned snakes. It won't be pretty. Then imagine Marshal suffering that way. Why argue about it? It's for the safety of your pet! These people don't have to take time to try to advise you. They have practical experience and are trying to save you and your darling snake very avoidable pain.

When multiple breeders/keepers some of whom have been caring for ball pythons longer than you've existed take the time to explain to you that a thermostat will help you care for your snake better than the great care you're already giving it, it might be a good idea to follow their advice.

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Originally Posted by BPSnakeLady

Do a google img search for belly burned snakes. It won't be pretty. Then imagine Marshal suffering that way. Why argue about it? It's for the safety of your pet! These people don't have to take time to try to advise you. They have practical experience and are trying to save you and your darling snake very avoidable pain.

When multiple breeders/keepers some of whom have been caring for ball pythons longer than you've existed take the time to explain to you that a thermostat will help you care for your snake better than the great care you're already giving it, it might be a good idea to follow their advice.

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By "people with experience" do you mean "people on this forum?" I have talked to many who have experience. They have pointed me in the right direction regarding products, feeding and handling. I prefer to keep things simple, rather than complicate it with thermostats, space heaters and all the rest. From what I've heard, it seems to me that people whoso add all that extra stuff ultimately end up with the sick animal. Also, I have received some advice on here that doesn't make sense. Example: plastic cages keep moisture better than glass. Scientifically, no it doesn't.


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It's a saying about kids who don't listen and are full of spunk. My grandma would always classify me as that when I was younger. How has everything turned offensive. I mean sayings and turn of phrases are all so misconstrued now a days. I may just not post here because I keep causing problems when I am just trying to be human.

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Originally Posted by Foolish1

It's a saying about kids who don't listen and are full of spunk. My grandma would always classify me as that when I was younger. How has everything turned offensive. I mean sayings and turn of phrases are all so misconstrued now a days. I may just not post here because I keep causing problems when I am just trying to be human.

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You are not causing problems for me, I actually found that saying quite funny:)


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I wrote out a response, but deleted it. You've settled on a course of action and are determined to follow it. Just think about it, and do more research. Maybe youtube some breeders, and see how they have their snakes' setups. The bottom line is that the care of your snake must come first. And to give him good care you have to keep an open mind willing to learn new things that might contradict what you learned previously. Good luck with your snake.

You know what they say you can lead the horse to the water..........

Anyway HIS snake, HIS problem.

Makes me wonder why people come here and ask for suggestion and when handed good advice just dismiss them.

Basically a waste of everyone's time.

BTW unregulated heat can be a serious fire hazard, hope you have a good home insurance. ;)

I have a feeling next time you ask for advice people will just ignore you, after all what's the point?

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

Nope.


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Do you have $20 to spend on one?

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

From what I've heard, it seems to me that people whoso add all that extra stuff ultimately end up with the sick animal.

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A lot of us are on here specifically to improve our animal husbandry using the most up-to-date and current knowledge in the field. Because I'm genuinely curious, where have you heard this? What specific examples can you provide? I can personally find multiple examples in this forum alone where a lack of that "extra stuff" (thermostats, ambient air heaters, hygrometers, infrared thermometers, etc.) was correlated with a sick animal. The preponderance of evidence appears to be on the side of needing a thermostat, etc. But new evidence is always worth considering! So please, can you cite or provide your sources where a thermostat or space heater has led to a sick animal, for our learning benefit? (Please don't take this as sarcasm! This is genuine curiosity)

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

Also, I have received some advice on here that doesn't make sense. Example: plastic cages keep moisture better than glass. Scientifically, no it doesn't.

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As for the plastic cages issue, my understanding of it is this: PVC cages retain heat better than glass (scientifically, this is logical). With higher heat, it's easier to maintain ambient humidity (that is, humidity throughout the air in an enclosure). It's not that PVC keeps moisture better, it's that PVC maintains heat and humidity more easily. As I said, I'm here to improve my knowledge, so someone please correct me if my understanding of this is wrong!

Quick question that's totally unrelated to everything - are you a boy or girl? I thought you were a girl, others are thinking you're a boy. What is it? I want to make sure everyone has their pronouns correct.

Secondly, it's not overcomplicating things by getting a thermostat. It's actually simplifying things. Without a thermostat, you have to check the temps multiple times per day. When i didn't have one and was just using a rheostat, I would check the temps every 3 hours. Now that I have thermostats, I check the temps maybe once per day. It's one of those things where you can "set it and forget it" so if you go away for a weekend, you can have more peace of mind knowing that your snakes aren't too cold or too hot.

Wow this kid is giving me a laugh. I'm sorry but if 20+people who have a hell of a lot more experience than you and have probably kept snakes longer than you have been on this planet recommend one you might want to listen. You can find plenty of websites that will tell you the same thing. But what do we know. U evidently are a boy genius and know everything in the world. Can't wait to see the post... HELP my snake got burned and I can't afford to take it to the vet. Then sir I will laugh at ur face and say I guess you don't need that 30 $ t stat. Sincerely just another dumbass who knows nothing

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

By "people with experience" do you mean "people on this forum?" I have talked to many who have experience. They have pointed me in the right direction regarding products, feeding and handling. I prefer to keep things simple, rather than complicate it with thermostats, space heaters and all the rest. From what I've heard, it seems to me that people whoso add all that extra stuff ultimately end up with the sick animal. Also, I have received some advice on here that doesn't make sense. Example: plastic cages keep moisture better than glass. Scientifically, no it doesn't.


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PVC, HDPE or CDPVC keep humidty in the same amount as a glass tank would if the glass tank had a sealed lid with 2 or 3 small slots cut out on a wall for ventilation. So technically, you are right in saying that plastic doesn't hold moisture better but tis the way its constructed that does. As you know, glass tanks have the whole top open which just lets humidity escape. If you do what a lot of people do and use foil or something to cover the top, it will work just as well as a plastic cage. Thing is its a lot less work and messing around to achieve the right humidity in a plastic cage. Also with plastic cages you can use a RHP to heat it which doesn't suck out moisture like a heat lamp or CHE. And for big snakes like my red tail boa, a glass tank isn't even an option.

As for heat, PVC, HDPE, CDPVC all are better insulators than glass.

Bottom line is a plastic cage is much easier to work with than glass not to mention lighter. Why do you think a lot of people use plastic totes?

Anyways, good luck and at the very least, get a rheostat for that UTH.

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

Quick question that's totally unrelated to everything - are you a boy or girl? I thought you were a girl, others are thinking you're a boy. What is it? I want to make sure everyone has their pronouns correct.

Secondly, it's not overcomplicating things by getting a thermostat. It's actually simplifying things. Without a thermostat, you have to check the temps multiple times per day. When i didn't have one and was just using a rheostat, I would check the temps every 3 hours. Now that I have thermostats, I check the temps maybe once per day. It's one of those things where you can "set it and forget it" so if you go away for a weekend, you can have more peace of mind knowing that your snakes aren't too cold or too hot.

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Even thermostats can fail. You need one that will shut off if something goes wrong or it gets above the max temp threshold you set like a Herpstat. From what I have been told, the Hydroponics one can run full blast if it malfunctions or at least someone said that. That's why I only run Herpstats.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Even thermostats can fail. You need one that will shut off if something goes wrong or it gets above the max temp threshold you set like a Herpstat. From what I have been told, the Hydroponics one can run full blast if it malfunctions or at least someone said that. That's why I only run Herpstats.

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I agree. My thermostats automatically shut off when the temperature gets 1 degree above where I set it. It's one of the ones from amazon that everyone has been recommending (I also recommended it). I eventually want to get a HerpStat because if I pony up the cash to get a nice one, I can control multiple UTH's with 1 thermostat.

Yeah they aren't cheap but well worth the cash imo. I heard pretty good things about Vivarium Electronics ones you can get from Reptile Basics but I've only used Herpstats so I just stick to those. You using the Hydrofarm ones? If so do they make loud clicks when they turn on and off since they aren't proportional? I was told they do but I always ask people. Also how accurate is it? I'm wondering because if they are decent, I might grab one from a local grow shop by my house to replace my rheostat on my baby bp tank till I get the Animal Plastics or Proline in spring.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah they aren't cheap but well worth the cash imo. I heard pretty good things about Vivarium Electronics ones you can get from Reptile Basics but I've only used Herpstats so I just stick to those. You using the Hydrofarm ones? If so do they make loud clicks when they turn on and off since they aren't proportional? I was told they do but I always ask people. Also how accurate is it? I'm wondering because if they are decent, I might grab one from a local grow shop by my house to replace my rheostat on my baby bp tank till I get the Animal Plastics or Proline in spring.

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I can only really hear it when i have everything off in my apartment. It clicks, but if you have the tv on, or even a space heater you won't be able to hear it. It works fine for my two snakes, and the are well worth the money. What clicks louder for me is the cheap timer I have for the lamp on my big tank. I set it to stay on for an hour and a half, and it goes off for a half hour and when the light goes off or comes back on, it clicks really loud.

Cool. Think i'll probably grab one here in a couple days. Rheostat works fine but I'd like a little more piece of mind. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Cool. Think i'll probably grab one here in a couple days. Rheostat works fine but I'd like a little more piece of mind. Thanks.

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I switched to thermostats because the rheostat wasn't accurate enough. I would check the temps and they'd be too cold, so I would nudge the switch up a tiny bit, and suddenly the temps would skyrocket and be way too hot.

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

I'm 15. Maybe Florida isn't 80 all year long, but it's a whole lot warmer in winter than it is here. Everyone I know has always used Celsius.

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This does explain a LOT.... I asked because you are not listening, not getting the point, and commenting back with things that have absolutely nothing to do with what was being told to you... example: location. I never asked to belittle anyone, just to understand that this post is going to go nowhere. Good luck to your snake...

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Originally Posted by Reed12321

I switched to thermostats because the rheostat wasn't accurate enough. I would check the temps and they'd be too cold, so I would nudge the switch up a tiny bit, and suddenly the temps would skyrocket and be way too hot.

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Yeah, I got a temp gun so I temp gun all my guys in the morning and then in the afternoon/evening about the same time I try and get quality time with everyone. My rheostat seems pretty close, its 1-2 degrees lower than my temp gun reads but again, peace of mind with the hydrofarm until I order my Herpstat 2.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, I got a temp gun so I temp gun all my guys in the morning and then in the afternoon/evening about the same time I try and get quality time with everyone. My rheostat seems pretty close, its 1-2 degrees lower than my temp gun reads but again, peace of mind with the hydrofarm until I order my Herpstat 2.

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Well I had one of these guys right here:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...847c1a_300.jpg
so as you can see, there's no temperature markings or anything like that. You just slide it to where you want it and then you check the temps a little while later.

why are you keeping the tank temp " perfect " anyways? In the wild there would be quite a range of temps.


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Originally Posted by Reed12321

Quick question that's totally unrelated to everything - are you a boy or girl? I thought you were a girl, others are thinking you're a boy. What is it? I want to make sure everyone has their pronouns correct.

Secondly, it's not overcomplicating things by getting a thermostat. It's actually simplifying things. Without a thermostat, you have to check the temps multiple times per day. When i didn't have one and was just using a rheostat, I would check the temps every 3 hours. Now that I have thermostats, I check the temps maybe once per day. It's one of those things where you can "set it and forget it" so if you go away for a weekend, you can have more peace of mind knowing that your snakes aren't too cold or too hot.

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Girl.


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