Pastel Butter x Spider (Maternal Incubation)

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Originally Posted by RuGGeR

How bout cleaning? When they continue to feed, they continue to poo.... No cleaning?


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How often they poop depends on a lot of things. Hatchlings don't poop that often at all because they are using so much of the mouse/rat to grow. I imagine a similar thing will happen with Charlotte. She depleted her body a lot by laying eggs, so much of the food she eats will be used up with little waste left over.

That said, she's been very passive with me messing around in the tub. She may just be used to it because I do it so often, or it may be a temperament thing. I don't think I'll need to clean the tub while she is incubating, but if I do then it shouldn't be an issue.

New update. I didn't feed a rat this time because they still need another week to grow, but this time she killed the soft fur away from the eggs entirely, which was new and interesting.

https://scontent-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...46355024_n.jpg

I checked on her afterward and found a VERY excited snake that was VERY interested in more food. It was scary but awesome, lol. After I recorded this I checked back again, and she had wrapped the eggs but is still on high alert for more food.

http://youtu.be/ZcVMNpge8ms

Charlotte is still doing great, has the eggs well wrapped. She's still hungry so I'll probably feed her a bit more often.

Day 23 of incubation. Still a hungry momma, still incubating like a champ. Temperatures seem to stay around 87.5 - 88.5 degrees.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...08446788_o.jpg

Today I offered Charlotte a weaned rat. She became extremely excited, enough that she partially uncoiled and began roaming the tub. She ALMOST grabbed it multiple times, but stopped at the last second. I think if I scent the rat first she will probably take it, but it's still a little frustrating. :rolleyes: I wish I'd had a weaned rat available for her very first meal.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...30000771_n.jpg

Awesome video! :gj:

This is very neat. She looks like she is taking good care of her eggs. BTW, my female spider ball is also named Charlotte. ;)

Very happy tonight!

Attempted to feed Charlotte a weaned rat again, because I'd like to get her on those instead of mice/soft furs. She would not take it, but did get excited and started sniffing around.

Then, I had a light bulb moment. I took the rat out, and sprinkled some used soft fur bedding in her cage. I waited a few minutes to make sure she smelled soft furs, then reintroduced the weaned rat and she SLAMMED it.

Eggs are still doing well, and this is Charlotte's fourth meal while maternally incubating.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...28889700_n.jpg

And here's a random pic of how I'm keeping track of egg temperatures.

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Its awesome to see that she's eating for you.

Good job on keeping up with the updates. Really excited to follow this journey and for the day the little ones will hatch.

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Whats the humidiy in there?

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Originally Posted by steve_r34

Whats the humidiy in there?

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Not sure. I tend to go by how the eggs look, but still keeping the floor beneath her and the eggs from becoming wet.

If u can get a read on it lmk please .. thanks

Subscribing!

Charlotte is not impressed with how slowly I am giving her rodents. :rolleyes: Every 5-7 days, how cruel!

https://scontent-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...33159694_o.jpg

Also, I have an accurite that was apparently sitting on a shelf, brand new in the box and all. So I will try setting it up soon to get a humidity reading.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Charlotte is not impressed with how slowly I am giving her rodents. :rolleyes: Every 5-7 days, how cruel!

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Lmao what an adorable picture! She looks like she's saying "Can't you see I'm starving here!?!" Lol I hate that look. I always look back and say "You ate 5-7 days ago, your fine lol" they never like that answer :p


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Today the eggs looked pretty dented, so I added more water to the substrate. Charlotte was loosely coiled around them, although the temperatures are not unusually high. I worry she might be losing interest in incubating them.

She was acting hungry, so I offered a weaned/small rat to see if she would take it unscented. Unfortunately it was an aggressive/curious one that immediately ran up to her and spooked her. She became very distressed and started quickly circling around the eggs, trying to escape from the rat. After a little chase I was able to catch it, and removed it. I feel bad for scaring her like that. I'm giving her 30-60 minutes to calm down before I check on her again to make sure that she and the eggs are okay.

I probably won't offer food again for a couple of weeks, and keep disturbances to a minimum. I don't want her to become so stressed that she leaves the eggs.

If she shows any other signs of losing interest, I will fire up the incubator to be on standby.

Checked on her just now and she has the eggs properly coiled again. Man was I stressed about that. I am going to check her again in the morning, but be as minimally invasive as possible. I've gotten a bit careless with how far I pull out the tub and how gratuitous I am with picture taking. This was a good reminder that even though she has been very tolerant, I should be more careful and patient, and respectful of her space.

It looks like she - and you - are doing a great job. This thread will be my lifeline when I get my first clutch. Thank you for sharing your ups and downs.

Here's a picture of how the eggs looked last night before I added more water to the substrate. Charlotte is more tightly coiled around them today, and temps look good.

https://scontent-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...60019732_o.jpg

As an added note, the method I am using for adding water to the substrate is using a spray bottle with the nozzle turned to make a jet instead of a spray/mist. In this way I can direct a pretty accurate stream of water to the substrate near Charlotte without getting it on her or near the eggs.

Amazing!

This is a great thread!! Good luck Charlotte!!! <3

The eggs are looking less dehydrated today, but I'm going to continue misting on a daily basis for now.

Charlotte is still doing great. A tad restless and hungry, but otherwise good. Temperatures are good at 87-88 degrees. I stirred the substrate a bit to break up a tiny bit of mold.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...51867316_o.jpg

This is such an awesome project. Can't wait to see how it turns out!


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Wow, I'm very interested in maternal incubation in captivity. Do you think her temperament will change after doing it instead of pulling the eggs? When I finally get my head around the breeding process I would love to start doing maternal and only have an incubator as back up in case something goes really wrong. I've been following this thread since you started it. She looks like a great momma.

How long has it been since she laid?

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Originally Posted by TurkeyPython

How long has it been since she laid?

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She laid the day I started the thread, so I believe today is day 32.

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Originally Posted by Phantomtip

Wow, I'm very interested in maternal incubation in captivity. Do you think her temperament will change after doing it instead of pulling the eggs? When I finally get my head around the breeding process I would love to start doing maternal and only have an incubator as back up in case something goes really wrong. I've been following this thread since you started it. She looks like a great momma.

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I think that doing maternal incubation is less stressful on the mother. I think that despite popular belief, females are more likely to eat if you let them keep their eggs, as opposed to pulling the eggs and leaving them with a strong incubation instinct but nothing to incubate.

I can say that while on eggs she's been a much more aggressive feeder, more than she has ever been before. I'm not sure if that feeding habit will stick around after the eggs hatch. Other than that I haven't noticed a temperament change.

Eggs are looking even more hydrated, and Charlotte still has them wrapped well. Hopefully the temporary dehydration didn't harm them at all. Better for them to be slightly dehydrated than to become wet, but either way I'll try setting up my accurite today to see what the humidity is actually at in there. I'll put the probe in the back of the tub if possible, to avoid it getting sprayed.

Yikes!

Today I misted the substrate and refreshed Charlotte's water. She uncoiled when I did this, and I got a picture of some pretty brown eggs.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure if this is from the substrate or if there's something wrong with them. Whatever it is, it has me pretty freaked out. :(

Temperature seems fine at 85-86 degrees. I think Charlotte relaxed her coils in response to the misting. I know that females will usually let bad eggs roll out of the nest, so I am hoping she will continue to incubate them.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...32731250_o.jpg

Awwwe! Any chance you'd be able to candle them?

I'm reasonably certain that coloration is from the substrate. I know that sphagnum moss dyes eggs like it ain't no thang. They look good, if they were bad they would STINK! And be funky colors like green or pink (that's what I've seen anyways)

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

Awwwe! Any chance you'd be able to candle them?

I'm reasonably certain that coloration is from the substrate. I know that sphagnum moss dyes eggs like it ain't no thang. They look good, if they were bad they would STINK! And be funky colors like green or pink (that's what I've seen anyways)

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I don't want to risk stressing Charlotte out by candling, after that rat incident a few days ago. I think if they are bad she will let them roll out of the nest. They don't seem like they are rotten or bad, they just look like little potatoes or loaves of bread. :confusd: So far I've got lots of people reassuring me, so I am feeling a bit less freaked out. Just wasn't a good thing to see after having a nightmare about snake eggs last night. :rolleyes:

In my very inexperienced and very novice opinion, I'd call those eggs dyed as well. I imagine in the wild it would be an advantage for eggs to pick up the colors of their substrate (whatever that may be) and blend in a little more, even if the snake is tucked away somewhere hidden.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

In my very inexperienced and very novice opinion, I'd call those eggs dyed as well. I imagine in the wild it would be an advantage for eggs to pick up the colors of their substrate (whatever that may be) and blend in a little more, even if the snake is tucked away somewhere hidden.

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That's a very good point. The ability of the eggs to blend in with their surroundings would probably be helpful for the times when the mother needs to briefly leave the nest.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I don't want to risk stressing Charlotte out by candling, after that rat incident a few days ago. I think if they are bad she will let them roll out of the nest. They don't seem like they are rotten or bad, they just look like little potatoes or loaves of bread. :confusd: So far I've got lots of people reassuring me, so I am feeling a bit less freaked out. Just wasn't a good thing to see after having a nightmare about snake eggs last night. :rolleyes:

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Maybe next time you feed her you can sneak in while she's constricted, if you're still worried. But I wouldn't be.

And OH tell me about snake-related nightmares. Ugh.

I'm maternally incubating right now as well. When I first candled the eggs, one was mostly yellow, and to my expectations, it went bad. I just took it out today since it was turning blue. However, an egg next to it has a little bit of the bluish color on the top. Is this something to worry about? Also the eggs are right on top of the heat pad. Is that okay?

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Originally Posted by scterial

I'm maternally incubating right now as well. When I first candled the eggs, one was mostly yellow, and to my expectations, it went bad. I just took it out today since it was turning blue. However, an egg next to it has a little bit of the bluish color on the top. Is this something to worry about? Also the eggs are right on top of the heat pad. Is that okay?

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Should be fine, depending on what temperature the heat pad is.

The blue might just be a little a mold, but hard to say.

What day are the eggs at now?

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Sorry for bombing your thread!! :( The eggs are at day 12 now. She laid a clutch of 7 eggs with 2 rollouts and 1 infertile egg (the one I just threw away yesterday). Her remaining 4 eggs look good though! And temps are always 87-90F with 80% humidity.

Today is Day 37 for the eggs.

Charlotte is leaning to one side but has the eggs completely wrapped. I've been a bit more aggressive with humidity lately, because a day or two ago the eggs seemed...smaller? Somehow?

Sometimes I think I should rename this thread: MMK's Descent into Insanity. :rolleyes:

Edit: Will add a new picture of Charlotte later today.

Pictures taken after misting, which caused Charlotte to uncoil.

Eggs are looking brown, dented, and weird. :confusd: The shells feel stiff, but will give a little when gentle pressure is applied.

The discoloration seems fine, but I worry about the eggs being too dehydrated. I added some wet sphagnum moss to the back corner of the tub, so it should be on the heating element.

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I removed her water dish, pushed the substrate up around the nest, and added a 6 quart tub half full of water to the front of her tub. (Thanks to Jerry at SRK for being helpful when I'm panicking, LOL).

Day 38.

Humidity is doing better, but I couldn't get a good look at the eggs.

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She's looking great! I wonder if the discoloration of the eggs is normal with MI?

I think the big dish was a good move :) she looks so awesome curled up like that!

The discoloration seems to be from the sphagnum moss, which I am told will dye lots of things.

And yeah, Jerry had a great idea with the 6 quart. I totally had a panic moment when I couldn't find any empty 6 quarts, then I realized my empty hatchling rack was sitting right there in front of me. :rolleyes:

And a little more of my sanity quietly slips away.

Eggs are looking better today. More plump. Hopefully the 6 quart of water continues to help.

This is utterly fascinating. I'm so excited for you, I can't stand it!