How to keep retics on the smaller side? (Mainlands)

Here's the real question, what does it matter if you have a mainland female that you want to hit 20-25'? As long as they aren't obese, or unhealthy, I see absolutely no problem getting them to monstrous proportions.

Just because something is one way in the wild, doesn't mean that's how they SHOULD be in captivity. A lot of wild snakes are riddled with disease, beaten up due to the wild breeding season(males killing males), thin because they CAN'T find food etc.

Captivity can remove most if not all of those detrimental factors that are common in the wild.

Just an FYI, I watched a video of a wild boa constrictor killing and consuming an iguana so large that it RIPPED the snakes skin wide open. That doesn't mean that we should at times feed that large.

There is no one right way to do things. As long as the snake is healthy who cares if it's 14' or 24'?


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Based on what? Owning a few animals and doing some google reading? In that case I could be a tractor expert!

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Based on scientific literature analysis, based on geographic distribution and a working knowledge of evolution and speciation events through natural selection. Based on studying evolutionary theory, conservation biology, and herpetology at the university for 5 years. Again, I've had enough of your wise knowledge. Please feel free to stop quoting me and go finish your book on tractors, since anyone with an idea must have received it from Google. Unless you have at the minimum of a masters in Herpetology / evolutionary biology, stop listening to the marketing ploys and spewing information because you have more snakes in captivity. Let me pass the shovel so you can continue burying the point of this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Tell me, do you honestly think a retic in the wild eats similar to the animals we keep in captivity? Are you that Naive? Have you ever seen pictures straight out of the skinning factories, of animals caught IN THE WILD? Smaller retics turn up often, in the 10-14' range, this seems about average for a mature adult in the wild. Will they eventually grow much larger, sure, is it common? nope, huge retics are a rarity in the wild, and they need a lot of factors lining up to grow to a monster size- one that is EASILY achievable in a captive setting.

A mainland female, if you feed it on average 14-16ft, a male, 10-14ft.

A mainland female, if you want to keep it manageable: 12-14ft, males 8-10ft, and there is NOTHING wrong with them being this size, frankly from all the animals pulled from the wild I've seen, and pictures directly from the field, this seems about average for an adult retic- and it's pretty common practice to keep males that size anyway.

I'm not advocating you starve the animal to keep it tiny, but you certainly don't have to shoot for an massive snake just because it's a retic.

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These people are hunting the snakes. It seems common sense to me but I'll spell it out for you anyway. There will obviously be a size threshold in which the animals become more conspicuous. Based on your data this size for retics is 10-14' and has absolutely no bearing on the actual adult size of the animal, wild or captive. If we want more accurate data it needs to be gathered from areas that aren't heavily harvested for snake hides - you're using skewed data so your false conclusions are excusable. The availability of food the seasons before capture has a huge impact on how fast they have grown but I would venture a guess that very few of the 12-14 foot specimens that are female are old snakes. Again, not making the argument you think you are with this data.

I'm not against feeding snakes less than is commonly accepted but telling someone a mainland female will cap out at 12-14 feet is ludicrous at best. Where do you have data that suggests you can keep a mainland female at 12-14 feet for the entirety of her life? I saw the video where Jay explains his extensive research and data. He has 1 female at 5 years of age that he fed less the first few years of her life and now that she's breeding he's under the impression that she will no longer grow as all her stores will go towards egg making... Thankfully Jay puts out lots of youtube videos so people can form their own opinions of the man and decide which, if any, of his ideas are worth their weight.

+1

Plus, less not forget that snakes are capable of what is deemed indeterminate growth - this clearly translates as an animal capable of growing its entire life. While it may be less dramatic or seen as it gets older, the fact is its still capable of growing. Unlike humans who contain growth factors in our bones that harden by the time we hit a certain age - thus stunting our ability to continue to grow in height.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

Hey everyone. So I am subscribed to numerous youtube channels to keep up to date with all my favorite snake keeps. Anyways.. I had seen recently that I believe it was Prehistoric Pets posted a video about keeping a mainland retic smaller. It was a female on a clutch of eggs. I believe they had said she was 20lbs. She looked pretty small to me. They said, "we have treated this like a pet. Not like a breeding animal or something to make money off of." I by no means believe in starving an animal to keep it malnourished and at a size you can handle. But she appeared very healthy. I was curious how you would go about this. I read somewhere that they need fed at least every 10 days as babies-juveniles or else they will get really hungry and can become irritated and nippy not to mention malnourished. I would like to get a mainland retic. But I can't handle more then 10-12 feet of snake (I am not even 5'). I have all necessary means of caring for it. I just need to know anybody that has had success with keeping a mainland no bigger then 12 ft. :snake:

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Lol you opened a can of worms with this one!


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Titanboa! Is it real?¿?


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Titanboa! Is it real?¿?


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Titanoboa, just watched a documentary about it LAST NIGHT! Ya, it's real. They found vertebrae from it.


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

The sheer stupidity of people thinking they know anything based about retics based on keeping a handful of animals is laughable.

The fact that you people seem to think 24-25' is an achievable size by a retic is also mind boggling.

OP, I'll back PP's advice, as well a lot of very experienced retic keepers and breeders will back PPs advice on keeping a retic small by not stuffing it full of food.

As for "reptile expert"- a degree in herpetology means nothing to me, unless you did specific field studies on the ground with retics, and retics alone, you can have a herpetology degree and still know nothing real about a retic, just like most vets are idiots who know nothing about reptile veterinary procedure.

I'm not saying the animal will "top out", as there is no "topping out", but getting an animal to a certain size and then breeding it, will decrease its possible size. I have a 13' female, pure mainland, that was fed light (by another owner), and bred just under 3 years (2 years 10 months), and 12 foot. She lays a healthy clutch of 20-25 every year, and in 2 years with me, has gained a whopping 1 foot, after heavy heavy feeding to see if breeding has any effect on overall growth.

The idea that any snake will "top out" is silly, but I was giving averages here team- if fed light, the female will hit 12-14' and slow way down, 14-20' are slow growth times, that by the time they start getting into those sizes, you are years and years down the road.

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

Titanoboa, just watched a documentary about it LAST NIGHT! Ya, it's real. They found vertebrae from it.


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Perfect, who is breeding these cause i want one! :D


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Perfect, who is breeding these cause i want one! :D


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Retics and condas are big enough for me haha. I don't have room for an 80' long snake lol


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

Retics and condas are big enough for me haha. I don't have room for an 80' long snake lol


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Thats why you offer to house sit your neighbors house while there gone and bam! Titanoboa has all the room he needs. And no need to tell them Im sure they wouldnt mind :D


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Perfect, who is breeding these cause i want one! :D


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Scariest thing about Titanoboa. Feeding it, and Titanoboa sized poops lol. Other than that it would be pretty awesome haha ;D


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Originally Posted by AlexisFitzy

Scariest thing about Titanoboa. Feeding it, and Titanoboa sized poops lol. Other than that it would be pretty awesome haha ;D


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I did not consider the titanoboa poopy. But now this has come to light i absolutely do not want to be the guy that is standing in front of one of those small sedan sized things trying to figure out what to do with it lol


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Originally Posted by Dehlol

As for "reptile expert"- a degree in herpetology means nothing to me, unless you did specific field studies on the ground with retics, and retics alone, you can have a herpetology degree and still know nothing real about a retic, just like most vets are idiots who know nothing about reptile veterinary procedure.

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I'm sorry, let me go see if I can get a refund on my degree . . . oh wait no seems its been past the thirty day return policy. shucks. . . :tears:

Do you know why we have super dwarf retics? Do you understand the evolution involved and the natural selection that took place / is taking place to produce these? That's fine and dandy you have a 13' mainland female that's breeding for you. Congrats. So do other people. But to drive this point home. If you have a retic that was fed very little in the first few years, you are indeed stunting its potential. Then starting it breeding based on age, that's fine you further stunt it. To say this is the normal realm in the wild, you are so far from the truth you make my head hurt.

Jampea retics are found on an island where food is not abundant. They have a breeding bird colony that comes in during the season and breeds in heavy numbers. During this time the retics are exposed to large amounts of food, then long periods of little food, followed by large periods of great food. Their breeding season is played off of the breeding season of the birds when food is abundant and resources can go into producing young. This is a selective process over time.

On the mainland, such retics phase out, because the larger continue to survive and continue passing on genes. Big females pumping out more eggs, giving rise to more stronger offspring giving them an advantage. Taking a mainland and stunting its food, while it may appear is healthy, is just enforcing a trait these snakes are not evolved for.

Again, I don't care 2 seconds about your mindset and what you think you're trying to prove here. I'm looking at this from natural history, evolution, and the selective pressures in the wild vs unnecessary selective pressures your using in captivity. Just because this works for some females, in no way promises that it will work in all. Just like not all the retics on Jampea survive to reproduce. Let this fall onto deaf ears, that's up to you. . . call me ignorant because I studied the mechanism for which this occurs in the wild and earned my degree in it, go for it. Listen to google and captive keepers who have no idea what happens in the wild. :rolleye2:

/opens a very large bag of popcorn to watch this drama fest from a distance...

Reaches for handful of popcorn from Osiris... Hopefully he is in sharing mood...


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Reaches for handful of popcorn from Osiris... Hopefully he is in sharing mood...


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teheheheh always willing to share!! (just hope everyone likes that sweet kettlecorn as much as I do!)

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

teheheheh always willing to share!! (just hope everyone likes that sweet kettlecorn as much as I do!)

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Ooo can I get in on this, kettle corn is soooo delicious! Room for one more? Lol


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Originally Posted by Dehlol

The OP was asking for advice on retics. I backed advice given from Jay Brewer at PP, who has tremendous retic experience. The condition of their storefront is irrelevant to the OPs question.

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Do you back their advice blindly or did you actually read what the OP said?

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

Hey everyone. So I am subscribed to numerous youtube channels to keep up to date with all my favorite snake keeps. Anyways.. I had seen recently that I believe it was Prehistoric Pets posted a video about keeping a mainland retic smaller. It was a female on a clutch of eggs. I believe they had said she was 20lbs. She looked pretty small to me. They said, "we have treated this like a pet. Not like a breeding animal or something to make money off of." I by no means believe in starving an animal to keep it malnourished and at a size you can handle. But she appeared very healthy. I was curious how you would go about this. I read somewhere that they need fed at least every 10 days as babies-juveniles or else they will get really hungry and can become irritated and nippy not to mention malnourished. I would like to get a mainland retic. But I can't handle more then 10-12 feet of snake (I am not even 5'). I have all necessary means of caring for it. I just need to know anybody that has had success with keeping a mainland no bigger then 12 ft. :snake:

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Original poster is under the impression that they can handle a mainland because of this video. Note, they also say they doubt they can handle a snake more than 12 feet.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Your snake will never get 25'. 25' is a lie, no snake has ever been that big or close. The largest on record is 22' 9", that's beyond rare, expect a max of 18-20 if you're lucky, more like 14-16 as a female.

Because... Jay is accurate and correct in his information. You don't need to power feed the animal or feed it heavy. I'm sure snakes stay 10-12 foot in the wild and breed and produce. Retics don't have to be monsters unless you make them as such.

If a 10'+ animal is too much for you alone, retics are not for you.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

The sheer stupidity of people thinking they know anything based about retics based on keeping a handful of animals is laughable.

The fact that you people seem to think 24-25' is an achievable size by a retic is also mind boggling.

OP, I'll back PP's advice, as well a lot of very experienced retic keepers and breeders will back PPs advice on keeping a retic small by not stuffing it full of food.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQVze_CkK_c
Check out around 2:22 and tell me if he is not implying that mainland retics can and do get 22-25 feet in length. Can you have it both ways? Is your hero the master of all things retic or maybe a bit more hit/miss. Whoops, skip ahead to the 5:00 mark, he clearly states a mainland can get 25-26 feet..

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Burms and retics are not bad beginner pets, they aren't for the feint of heart, but as I've told multiple people- I trust my retics more than I trust your average shelter dog (a typical first pet), if you know what you're doing, and do it right, with the right advice, a retic is a fantastic pet animal.

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It was petstores across the nation spewing crap like this to customers that caused us to be in much of the trouble we are now. Zoos, rescues and private parties became so overwhelmed with donated animals they basically had to start refusing them or only accept animals to be immediately euthanized. What happened to these large constrictors that nobody would take?

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

I have a 13' female, pure mainland, that was fed light (by another owner), and bred just under 3 years (2 years 10 months), and 12 foot. She lays a healthy clutch of 20-25 every year, and in 2 years with me, has gained a whopping 1 foot, after heavy heavy feeding to see if breeding has any effect on overall growth.

The idea that any snake will "top out" is silly, but I was giving averages here team- if fed light, the female will hit 12-14' and slow way down, 14-20' are slow growth times, that by the time they start getting into those sizes, you are years and years down the road.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQVze_CkK_c
So, it's ok to mislead people so long as there's a time frame involved? They won't be upset if it takes 10-15 years as opposed to 5? Also, check out the above video at 3:20, Jay says retics need to be 3 years to breed. You've schooled the master yet again young padawan. Can check at 4:00 too, Jay clearly states that they could keep that female retic at her current size. You obviously don't believe this as you stated they continue growing for the entirety of their life, if at differing rates. Do you seriously think he is not misleading future customers and doing this solely as a sales pitch?

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

For me, as a 23 year old adult, a retic would be a suitable first time pet. For a 5 year old? A hamster is about it.

The OP was asking for advice on retics. I backed advice given from Jay Brewer at PP, who has tremendous retic experience. The condition of their storefront is irrelevant to the OPs question.

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How old is your oldest retic and how long have you been keeping them? What are your personal growth records? I think it's great to have people you look up to, mentors and all that. I also think you should seriously question someone's motives when they release a video such as this above one.