wow!!?? (graphic?)

First, I'm going to pretend those photos are photoshopped. It will help me sleep better at night to believe that.

Second, I had no idea that there was such prejudice in the herp hobby! I kind of thought we all banded together against people that think snakes are evil or disgusting. The majority of my reptile collection is balls, but I also have two king snakes, two milk snakes, one leopard gecko, two red tails, and two burmese pythons. I in no way think one is better than the other. Every one has different characteristics and personalities, and each one has things I appreciate about it. To me a pet is a pet, and there is no such thing as better. It is personal preference. Although, I am completely opposed to selling large reptiles to individuals without the financial stability to have them. Sorry, but I personally think that boas, anacondas, burms, retics, shouldn't be as readily available as balls, kings, milks, etc. The simple fact is too many people get one and a year later have a nine foot snake they can't house, feed, or handle because it wasn't hand tamed properly. That is how I ended up with both my boas and burms. I adopted them from people that thought it would be "cool" to have a giant snake, and then the reality of owning it was too much for them.

One of my redtails, Cookie, had a huge infected burn on her from her previous owner. He had put a heat lamp in her cage with no cover and she burned herself on it. However, she was full grown, and he hadn't actually handled her in years (and yes, her cage was disgusting) because he was afraid of her. She bit him once when she was a juvenile, and it all got "real" to him. Because of that she was pretty much wild, and not only was the vet bill astronomical on her when I took her in, but treating her wound was not fun. She is a big ol' baby now, but I'll never forget how angry I was when I saw the condition she was in. And her owner? He said he was too scared to get close enough to take her out of the cage and clean it. She was literally sitting on top of years worth of feces in that big wooden box he'd built her. He just keep throwing more food in there and never cleaning anything out.

That's why I am so opposed to selling giant constrictors in the same manner balls and other snakes are sold. In my opinion red tails, burms, retics, anacondas, etc are not a beginner pet. They are also not a pet for some kid just out of high school and going into college that has no guarantee three years down the line he'll have the space or money to house it. This is why burms and retics are overrunning the American everglades, and the reason so many are abandoned or advertised as "Free to good home" on Craigslist.

Ok, rant over.

On another note, I have an Arabian and several Quarter horses. I also have a Shire, Andalusian, and Friesian. Yes, I went through a princess faze. I try not to dwell. Moving on, at the end of the day I think it comes down to what you are wanting to do with that horse. When I'm going to be in the saddle all day on a long trail ride nothing beats one of my Quarters. They are literally built to go all day long. That's why cowboys preferred them. When I was homecoming queen and rode in the high school parade? I was on my Friesian all decked out. Our two shires pull the wagon when we do hay rides. Different horses are bred for different things, so it's not really fair to judge them by the same standards.

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

*cough* Appendix QH *cough cough*

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Appendix means 1/2 TB, which rocks as far as I'm concerned!

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Originally Posted by bcr229

And the owner of an OTTB needs to go clean coffee off of her monitor now... :D

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:D IM(not terribly H)O TB's are the greatest all-around equine athetes there are hands down, and I have known quite a few OTTBs who can give the 100k German imports a solid challenge at the GP level. In fact I'm hoping to pick up a new OTTB jumper prospect later this year (except I keep blowing my horse money on snakes, which is not a bad thing lol).

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Originally Posted by TexanLady

On another note, I have an Arabian and several Quarter horses. I also have a Shire, Andalusian, and Friesian. Yes, I went through a princess faze. I try not to dwell. Moving on, at the end of the day I think it comes down to what you are wanting to do with that horse. When I'm going to be in the saddle all day on a long trail ride nothing beats one of my Quarters. They are literally built to go all day long. That's why cowboys preferred them. When I was homecoming queen and rode in the high school parade? I was on my Friesian all decked out. Our two shires pull the wagon when we do hay rides. Different horses are bred for different things, so it's not really fair to judge them by the same standards.

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You are absolutely right, although I want to see pics of you in that parade (because that's awesome). And I think it applies to the snakes as well, I love jumping, so I go for breeds that are built to be good jumpers. And I like snakes with easy temperments and small size housing requirements, so I have balls not retics. But my heart warms up to see a big draft head come over the stall door for a scratch and a treat just as much as any other head, and I appreciate the beauty and rabbit-disposal capabilities of a retic even if it doesn't suit my preferences. Respect for the animal comes first, no matter what that animal's morphological characteristics might be.

"Respect for the animal comes first, no matter what that animal's morphological characteristics might be."

Single greatest line so far! And so true. It all boils down to the fact that every pet is a living, breathing being capable of feeling pain. As pet owners we are responsible for these creatures. No matter if our pets are covered in fur, scales, or spines (got a hedgehog the other day!), they are solely dependent upon us. It is a responsibility, and I think a lot of people don't take it seriously.

I never thought I would take on large snakes, but when I went over to that guys house to check out some of his kings I couldn't leave Cookie there. One of the most frightening experiences of my life was treating her burn. She was completely wild, and vicious! Of course that was totally the fault of her previous owner, but it was a learning experience for both of us. I got over my fear of big snakes with her, she bit me a few times and found out I wasn't going to hurt her, and after about eight months she finally let me take her out of her cage (which is 6x3x3! and much better than that tiny box that jerk had her in!) and hold her. I still have a great deal of respect for her moods, and I don't let too many people besides other experienced reptile owners hold her, but she's been a beloved pet for almost five years now, and I don't know what I'd do without her. And as much as I love my great state I really wish they had better animal cruelty laws. I called the police as soon as I left that guy's house and filed an animal abuse complaint and nothing ever came of it. The condition his reptiles were kept in was appalling. Not to mention how he kept his rats! Sometimes I wish we were all required to pass a psychological evaluation before we could get a pet. Too many psychos out there abuse their animals.

And Devon, I'm not very good at computer shorthand. Don't let my age fool you! But I'm taking it from what you wrote that you're a big fan of Thoroughbreds? I admire the breed, but they get too hot too quickly and too often for me. I like them mellow. We only got our Arab because of my Black Stallion faze. I think they are beautiful, and they look beautiful jumping, but not the best for barrel racing, roping, or long days in the saddle. We have a few that we adopted from the track, but they are rescues so they wouldn't be put down. And don't get me started on the racing industry! It is shameful the way they treat horses!

And as for that photo of me in the parade? Not on your life! All I can say is Pink Taffeta. Lots of Pink Taffeta! Yeah, it was that bad!

Oh, and Draft horses are some of my favorite breeds! Think of Great Dane's in horse form. Yeah, they act like overgrown lap dogs! Not to mention clingy! We have a miniature Donkey, and while all our horses love him, our Shires follow him around religiously. Not kidding. I'll try and remember to take a picture because it is too funny! Seeing these great hulking horses follow this itty bitty donkey cracks me up every time!

It's nice that my parents own so much land. Growing up my sister and I filled up our back pasture with pretty much any horse that caught our eye, and now my parents are being kind enough to let me build a ventilated shed so I can start raising my own rats to cut down on my feed bill. Of course that is probably a year away. My collection is small enough at the moment that I don't feel the need to set up a rodent breeding facility just yet. But I'm thinking in the next few years I won't have a choice. Not to mention I don't have to pay boarding fees on any of my horses. Which is a huge load off. I was surprised to hear how much commercial barns charge their boarders. It's ridiculous!

this is horrible idk how anyone could do something like that makes me sick actually

I like the look of some of the bigger snakes, but I also know my limits. They aren't for me. I like the mellow ball pythons. I personally think they have plenty of personality, add much add my rosy boas, who are a lot more active but smaller. I'm entertaining getting a rainbow boa some day, because they are so beautiful, but I'll need to do more research and decide if I'm really right for them.

Now where horses are concerned, got an Arab and a QH, and I have to say I prefer my Arab! He's 70+% Crabbet, which in my opinion are the best. Rest of him is mostly Polish lines, which are pretty good too. I don't care for the Spanish, Russian, or Egyptian lines. They are the ones that tend to have hotter temperaments, in my opinion, though Polish can sometimes be hot too if they haven't had proper handling or training, or have purposefully been trained that way (to put on a show). I like my horse's brains and trainability, his personality and friendliness. He's like a puppy, really just wants to be with people. The QH, and all others I've known, just aren't like that. Nice horses, but not as expressive. Nothing wrong with that, just different breeds. I will say one thing, my QH is lazier than a rock, but at the same time has a crazy strong work ethic. He not just wants, but needs a job. My Arab will do anything I ask to please mer, but not necessarily because he wants to. As long as he's around people he couldn't care less if he had a real job or not. Don't take me wrong, he'll do any job given, or die trying, but only out of desire to please, not so much desire to work.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

I'm entertaining getting a rainbow boa some day, because they are so beautiful, but I'll need to do more research and decide if I'm really right for them.

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Do it! My adults are both quite gentle, topped out around six feet, are easily handled, and are very curious. As hatchlings they can be nippy but once they learn that you aren't some evil monster that will eat them they chill right out. The hardest part is making sure your enclosure can stay humid enough to keep them healthy.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Do it! My adults are both quite gentle, topped out around six feet, are easily handled, and are very curious. As hatchlings they can be nippy but once they learn that you aren't some evil monster that will eat them they chill right out. The hardest part is making sure your enclosure can stay humid enough to keep them healthy.

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I didn't even know if they were legal here (pretty as they are I figured for sure they weren't legal! Lol) but saw a big breeder at the Reptile show last weekend. First time I saw them in person, and I just stood there looking at them for 15 or 20 minutes! Just breath taking.

TexanLady - I do love the thoroughbreds, there aren't many breeds with the athleticism to be competitive on the track as babies and then learn a whole new sport and compete at the highest levels there too, whether it's jumping, eventing, or dressage. I don't have the kind of budget for a big German import (apparently people out here think $30k on an untried prospect is a bargain :confusd:) so I pick up my jumpers off the track, they always seem to make up for a lack of jumping-specific breeding by having an extra dose of grit and heart. That said you are so right about not being barrel racers, I think with the momentum of their big bodies they would run into the wall before they made it around a single corner! If we're not getting photos of the taffeta-splosion, then we're definitely going to need some of the shire/donkey herd, because that is too adorable. And I'm super jealous of your farm set up, board and training at my barn starts at $800/month, not including shoes, supplements, worming, blanketing, and everything else!

Sorraia - I grew up with arabs, so I tend to favor them. But sometimes they're too smart for their own good, the only horse I ever met who could undo snap bolts with his teeth was an arab. He used to undo his bolt, open his stall door, and turn himself out.

Maybe I should look into rainbow boas, I've been obsessing over Boelens the last few months, mostly because of the rainbow-ness, but I'm put off by both the cost and the size of Boelens, maybe a Rainbow would be a good alternative.

Badgemash, tell me you are kidding? Please tell me that whole $800 was a joke? I was talking about my friend having to pay $250 a month for her horse before she moved him to my parents. I thought that was outrageous! But $800! That's theft, plain and simple. I just can't believe that! That's like my rent and soon to be mortgage! Actually it's more! I'm putting enough down to keep my mortgage right at $630 a month. You must live in the Northeast or in Cali where living is so much more expensive! I have never been so thankful to live in Texas. Tornados, crazy weather, heat waves and all! At least we get more bang for our buck. I feel for you. I simply can't imagine that. My parents have just shy of fifty acres and it's considered recreational land. Like having a really big front and back yard. Surrounding them are two cattle ranches and about a dozen quarter horse ranches with a few hundred, if not thousands of acres! And we're actually only about 45 minutes out from Dallas.

I just can't imagine it being such an expense to keep a horse like that. When I went to college (Go Tarleton Texans!) the dorm I chose came with a stable, and it only cost me a total of 375 a month to take three of my horses with me and keep them there. I also got to park my trailer there for free. Not to mention that there were dozens of barns in the area where you could board. One we looked at offered pasture boarding for $50 a month. That's it. Meaning they fed your horse every day, and you could keep your tack box in the tack room, but other than that your horse stayed in the pasture with the other horses. Stall boarding would have cost me $100 a month. There were several run-ins for them though. There are a lot of setups like that out here. Not to mention if you were part of the Equine Program at Tarleton you got to keep your horse at their Equine facility for free. That facility also offered boarding to other students (I was an English major), and it was still far less than $200 a month per horse. My parents board about twenty horses for friends and family and they only charge $75 a month. I just can't believe you pay that much to board A horse.

Oh, and Tarleton is not an exception down here. Texas A&M, UT, UNT, Rice, and many other colleges down here offer dorms with boarding options. And colleges aren't the only ones offering boarding options. In fact there is a multimillion dollar suburb not too far from here (houses start at half a mil and go up) that has it's own country club, golf course, restaurant, security force, and stable, and they only charge a little over $300 a month for full care. Pasturing, stalling, exercise, food, the whole nine yards!

My advice, Devon? MOVE TO TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I pay 250 a month and that includes hay. They feed and that's it. Not a fancy place at all but it's cheap for my area and I have access to a good English trainer on site.

I would have never guessed this thread would evolve into horses. I guess anything is possible.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

TexanLady - I do love the thoroughbreds, there aren't many breeds with the athleticism to be competitive on the track as babies and then learn a whole new sport and compete at the highest levels there too, whether it's jumping, eventing, or dressage. I don't have the kind of budget for a big German import (apparently people out here think $30k on an untried prospect is a bargain :confusd:) so I pick up my jumpers off the track, they always seem to make up for a lack of jumping-specific breeding by having an extra dose of grit and heart. That said you are so right about not being barrel racers, I think with the momentum of their big bodies they would run into the wall before they made it around a single corner! If we're not getting photos of the taffeta-splosion, then we're definitely going to need some of the shire/donkey herd, because that is too adorable. And I'm super jealous of your farm set up, board and training at my barn starts at $800/month, not including shoes, supplements, worming, blanketing, and everything else!

Sorraia - I grew up with arabs, so I tend to favor them. But sometimes they're too smart for their own good, the only horse I ever met who could undo snap bolts with his teeth was an arab. He used to undo his bolt, open his stall door, and turn himself out.

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That's one thing I love about Arabs! ;)

I know about cost. Before I bought this house and moved my horse here, I was paying done $250-300 for a pipe corral (don't remember the size, but I think 12'x24') and hay. Trims (thankfully don't need shoes), supplements, shavings, turn out, etc all cost extra.

Sorry we hijacked the thread. Horse folk can get very excited about this kind of stuff.

Marissa, I'm sorry it is so expensive where you are at too. We rarely buy hay, or have to. My parents have the back 40 acres fenced off for the horses, and the front 9.433 acres are my for my mom to do her gardening projects and their house. But with so much acreage back there and with such long growing seasons in our area of the country we only have to buy one round bale of hay (about $120) every six to eight weeks. Split between my sister and I for our horses and all the other people we let board there each of us only has to pay about $2 for hay. Other than that the horses get their daily oats and range feed.

Also, I have only ridden English a few times in my life. Most of the time I ride bareback or Western. I'm not as snobby as some of the riders down here. Most people in Texas see you riding English and they'll make fun of you. It's considered a sissy form of riding to most Texans, but I think it is entirely untrue. I may have only done it a few times, and not for years, but I remember how much harder riding English was than Western. Though both pale in comparison to bareback! English requires remarkable balance and a well developed seat. Most of the cowboys and cowgirls down here will never admit that though. I sometimes wish I had gotten more into it, but in high school and college I was on the rodeo teams and that didn't leave much time for recreational riding, and you definitely can't rodeo in an English saddle!

As for the trainer? How much are you guys paying for that? We buy our horses green broke and finish up training them ourselves, but I'm interested to hear how much others pay for a trainer. There are several trainers floating around here that train horses for the quarter horses breeders and some of the people that buy horses for recreational purposes, and I know they only charge 20-30 dollars an hour, or do package deals. I know one in particular that is training five horses for a friend of ours out by the county line. She owns ten acres and just got her pasture and barn setup, and she made a deal with her trainer. She lets him board his three horses there for free and give riding lessons on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons and he is training her horses for free. And those are only the professional trainers. If you aren't picky and don't want someone with an actual degree in Equine Science you can find someone down here with so many years experience riding they are practically a professional and will help you train your horse for 10-15 an hour.

No complaint here. Just a strange twist.

I don't currently have horses but was raised riding western. I did take English lessons but was not a fan. I like my big plush western saddles.

I never competed at anything and only worked cattle and rode for fun.

Well I was never a professional or anything. I didn't have sponsors, and I didn't go rodeoing every weekend. It was something I did for fun as well, and still do, though definitely not as much. Now I ride more for fun. Going to be hitting the big 30 in another year, and I'm feeling it more when I get bucked off a green broke horse. Now I mainly do long trail rides with friends, or help my niece who is 13 with learning barrel racing. She is and into being a rodeo queen.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I would have never guessed this thread would evolve into horses. I guess anything is possible.

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LOL that's because the disdain for BP's by people who keep other snakes isn't a patch on the disdain between QH rders versus TB riders vs TWH riders vs Arab riders vs... well, you get the idea.
Don't even get me started on hunter princesses and dressage queens... ;)

Texan- I pay 30 for group lessons. I don't have anyone train my actual horse though. I've been the one to do that since day one. :)

I love English for cross country and jumping. I ride western too for barrels and poles. The last time someone made fun of me for English was at a practice rodeo (yes I did the fun event in an English saddle). So I challenged her to ride in my saddle. Guess who almost fell off. :P takes more skill to ride English in my own biased opinion.

There's less to an English saddle, compared to a western saddle. It definitely takes more control, and more strength to ride English well, compared to Western (speaking in generalities, because there are sports in both that are harder or easier than the other! ). I've ridden both, and bareback. I actually prefer bareback, because I'm lazy about putting a saddle on! Lol

I've also ridden a saddle seat saddle, now THAT spooked me! Much shallower seat than anything I had ever ridden in before.

TexanLady - I wish it was a typo, but no. I'm in Phoenix, so land is at a premium. Where I ride it's $350 for pipe corral with misters or $425 for a box stall (with evap coolers) with an outdoor run. On top of that there's a $400/month fee for training which is two 45 min private lessons a week and one trainer ride/week (trainer works them), otherwise it's $50/45 min private or 1:15 semi-private (2 people) lesson on a school horse. There's also a $50/month fee for feeding supplements and blanketing. Shoeing/worming/trailering/show coaching/body clipping are all extra. That said, I feel lucky to have found the place. I've never ridden school horses of this caliber, every last one of them could score well at first level dressage, jumps 3' and up, collects and works in frame, does auto-changes, and moves off the slightest touch of leg, and I can lease them for just the monthly costs. The horse I last leased was a retired Grand Prix jumper, who was originally purchased in Germany for over 100k (something I would never ever be able to afford). I grew up riding trails and endurance, because that was all there was where I grew up, and only started jumping as an adult. And frankly it's hard to find someone who will take you seriously as an adult and train you as aggressively as they would a kid (especially the children of people who can afford the big money horses), so even though it costs me an arm and both legs, it's worth it.

bcr229 - Don't get me started on hunter princesses, I have strong feelings about those, and the hunter world in general. It's right up there with 'western pleasure.'

KMG - Even though I started off western, I always felt like those saddles were too roomy lol! But I did get a chance to work cattle on a friend's ranch as a kid, and I have to admit, a cow horse who loves his job is a true and absolute joy to ride.

I don't under stand what is so wrong with the photos posted. (1) they look really photo chopped and if not. (2) the BP looks dead

I have only taken six riding lessons in my life. I love horses and I love riding but I don't know anything about them. Sometimes I watch one of my friends do her riding lessons. I always feel shy asking my friends with horses if I can ride them. I don't want to be a nuisance. I did try bareback, English, and Western. Again, I don't know really anything at all (I am like pre-pre-pre Beginner) but I liked how with the English saddle I could feel the horse more.

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Originally Posted by fishdip

I don't under stand what is so wrong with the photos posted. (1) they look really photo chopped and if not. (2) the BP looks dead

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I'm not contesting this, but what makes you think this is photoshopped? That BP looks very much alive to me.

And to the post above mine. Horseback riding...really... lololololol

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Originally Posted by SKOOT3R

And to the post above mine. Horseback riding...really... lololololol

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I don't get it. What's so funny?

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Originally Posted by Skymall007

I have only taken six riding lessons in my life. I love horses and I love riding but I don't know anything about them. Sometimes I watch one of my friends do her riding lessons. I always feel shy asking my friends with horses if I can ride them. I don't want to be a nuisance. I did try bareback, English, and Western. Again, I don't know really anything at all (I am like pre-pre-pre Beginner) but I liked how with the English saddle I could feel the horse more.

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Hey everybody starts somewhere, none of us are born knowing how to ride (though I love seeing the itty bitty kids riding, too cute). As long as there aren't any liability issues with where your friend keeps her horse (a lot of places will make you sign a release form) why not ask? A lot of horse people are really passionate about horses and would love to talk about them as much as possible, kind of like we do with our snakes.

The pixel's of the image look off.

Skymall007, you shouldn't feel shy at all! In fact most of them would probably love someone to go riding with! Believe it or not it is hard to find someone to ride with sometimes. I try to ride at least three or four times a week, and honestly I'm usually alone. My schedule rarely syncs up with my sister's these days and she was my roping partner when we rodeoed. Honestly, I'm usually asking my friends if they want to go riding with me. My parents keep four well trained trail horses for family and friends when they come over, and I always offer to let my friends come riding with me. I like to take one of my horses down to the lake on Saturdays with my dogs and ride all day, and it is always better to do with a friend. Most of the time I'm alone. Just me, my horse, and my dogs. I say go for it. I think you'll be surprised at how many of your friends with horses jump at the chance to go riding with you!

Badgemash, I maintain that $800 a month is outrageous, but if you are happy and enjoying yourself that is all that matters. I'm glad you've found a passion as an adult, and even happier for you that you're able to afford it. I could never drop $800 a month leasing a horse and paying for lessons. I know living costs are cheaper here in Texas (apparently A LOT cheaper), but I just couldn't pay that much. And it has nothing to do with me being a cheapskate. And yes, I was that girl that duct taped anything that broke because I refused to buy another one. The only things I've ever splurged on were my snakes and the house I'm buying. Other than that you have to pry every last cent out of my hand with the jaws of life. Still, have you thought about going in with some other people to purchase a few acres outside of town?

When I was at Tarleton I knew some people that went in together to buy five acres about ten minutes outside of town. The house on it was condemned, but the water hook up was fine. They used metal fence posts and built a fence around the acreage with a gate for about $4,000. I think there were nine of them, so all together it was only about $500 apiece. And they built their own run-in for less than $600. The acreage they got for about somewhere between 4-5 grand. They had somewhere free to board their horses and they were able to board some to make their money back. I'm not sure if that is feasible for you to do, I don't know how much land cost in Phoenix (apparently an arm and a leg!), but I thought I'd share.

Still, Badge, good for you for not letting other people tell you you are too old to take up the sport!

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Originally Posted by TexanLady

When I was at Tarleton I knew some people that went in together to buy five acres about ten minutes outside of town. The house on it was condemned, but the water hook up was fine. They used metal fence posts and built a fence around the acreage with a gate for about $4,000. I think there were nine of them, so all together it was only about $500 apiece. And they built their own run-in for less than $600. The acreage they got for about somewhere between 4-5 grand. They had somewhere free to board their horses and they were able to board some to make their money back. I'm not sure if that is feasible for you to do, I don't know how much land cost in Phoenix (apparently an arm and a leg!), but I thought I'd share.

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I don't know about Phoenix, but I live in a part of So Cal with "low" property values. My half acre with a 1400sq ft 3 bed/1.5 bath house was $115k. More than an acre is easily double that or more (especially now with prices picking up again), even
If the house is just a single wider trailer. Just our hay costs $17.99 a bale, and is necessary because grass doesn't grow here unless you run your water bill up into the hundreds. Amazing the differences in cost of living! I really kind of want to move some place where we could get a bigger property for less, but we couldn't afford it right now, and there's so much uncertainty to consider (jobs? Animal laws? Weather? ) and then there's figuring out a place both of us can even agree on. Can't beat the weather out here though!

I love horse people. We hijack everything with horse talk. :3

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

I love horse people. We hijack everything with horse talk. :3

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Truth! I'm actually a little surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) and amused how many of us found each other in THIS thread. lol

I shall def. ask =) I would so love to learn!

I think the photo isn't photoshopped, but as mentioned earlier it does happen and I found out people don't like ball pythons from this thread

We TOTALLY hijack everything!

And sorraia, I can't believe how expensive it is to live in other places! I'm closing on my house hopefully next week (crossing fingers! the family is waiting for their son to graduate high school to move) and I'm paying just a bit over 130. It's about 17 years old, five bedroom, three and a half bath, pool, with four and half acres. Foundation is great, electric is great, plumbing is great, has a new water heater, new AC/Heat units, new wood and tile floors, redone kitchen, and a freshly paved driveway to replace the gravel one. It's 1,970 sq feet. It's about 40 minutes outside of Dallas. The acreage is rough though. Hasn't been cultivated, but I'm planning on tackling that over the coming years. Lots of trees and brush to cut down, but once that's done I'll be able to keep my horses at my place. Not in that big of a rush with my parents ten minutes away. And I'm seriously considering putting up a temporary fence and buying some goats to do most of the brush clearing. Long story short, my house? Not the exception. That is simply the housing market here. You can buy a brand new house with everything I mentioned for around 200-250.

All I can say is ... GOD BLESS TEXAS!

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Originally Posted by Skymall007

I shall def. ask =) I would so love to learn!

I think the photo isn't photoshopped, but as mentioned earlier it does happen and I found out people don't like ball pythons from this thread

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Come on now I like them as a nice set of cowboy boots:gj:

I don't think its Photoshopped. But like I said before, I'm pretty sure its already dead. I've seen dead BPs with that expression, but never live ones.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I don't think its Photoshopped. But like I said before, I'm pretty sure its already dead. I've seen dead BPs with that expression, but never live ones.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Yeah, I thought if it wasn't, it would be coiled or defensive. Not just getting eaten.

TexanLady - I'd love to buy some acreage, but it's stupid expensive. Phoenix has so much urban sprawl that the suburbs have all hit the boundaries of the various reservations (which obviously one cannot buy) which has seriously driven up the cost of land. Even in the midst of the housing crash you'd still be looking at 500,000+ for enough land to keep horses at home, now it's back past 1,000,000, unless I want to have an hour and a half commute each way, and even then there's no water to grow any pasture. When my brother passed away he left me a good chunk of money, which I decided to invest in my husband by sending him to helicopter pilot school (he was an airplane mechanic before, always wanted to fly but never had the chance). He's finally earning a good wage now flying in the gulf, but trust me that money every month still hurts, it's a (depressingly) large percentage of my earnings. But I made a promise to my bro (really to myself) when we buried him, that I was going to live boldly and passionately, because that's how he did things and I felt it was the best way to honor his memory. There is no other feeling in the world like being #%^* scared in front of a big fence (ok, not that big really, but big enough when you've reached the age where hitting the ground HURTS) and doing it anyway, and it's just made that much better when you see that big furry head come over the door at the sound of your voice. I am addicted to a horrendously expensive sport that I have zero innate talent for, luckily I have an understanding spouse.

So I guess this is my long rambling way of saying life is too short, if you love something, love it fully, don't hold back, and luxuriate in every second of it that you can. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow I don't want to be laying there thinking of all the things I wish I'd done, better to think 'I'm so glad I got to do that.'

It is upsetting to us as ball python people, even though I am positive that ball is dead. But, honestly now, is it any different to a person who loves rats and has them as pets when someone posts pictures and video of them being eaten? And I've seen some graphic pictures of rats being hunted and eaten. Truthfully, it's all relative. Or what about someone who owns and loves and raises rabbits, and sees pictures of a retic hunting and eating a rabbit that looks just like one of their pets?

We love to preach to people about how everything has to eat, and thereby excuse our feeding of rats and mice and such. Well, as upsetting as it is to most of us, it's no different in this case than any other.

Gale

The other day I went in to a small family owned reptile show. I told the guys I was new to bp's. We started talking about a california king snake for sale. He said you could feed a young ball python to it in a pinch. Not shocked at this picture although VERY SAD

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Originally Posted by angllady2

It is upsetting to us as ball python people, even though I am positive that ball is dead. But, honestly now, is it any different to a person who loves rats and has them as pets when someone posts pictures and video of them being eaten? And I've seen some graphic pictures of rats being hunted and eaten. Truthfully, it's all relative. Or what about someone who owns and loves and raises rabbits, and sees pictures of a retic hunting and eating a rabbit that looks just like one of their pets?

We love to preach to people about how everything has to eat, and thereby excuse our feeding of rats and mice and such. Well, as upsetting as it is to most of us, it's no different in this case than any other.

Gale

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This is exactly how I feel about this. I was pretty confused when people were saying "it looks dead" like that made a difference. It does make a difference when it comes to it suffering of course, but not to the emotional shock factor. Just as she said, seeing a rat, rabbit, dog, cat, or snake anything that you cherish being eaten by something else just makes you sad. We all know that everything has to eat but still it doesn't mean that it's not sad. Or makes it any less shocking to see.


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some people think burmese and retics are better snakes because they take more discipline but its really a matter of what you like better snakes are snakes. personally i like balls better cause there the size and temperament. if you think your a real man(or women) cause you own something that could kill you and has children then your an idiot and a tool. probably the guys that took these pics. no offense to big snake owners if your intentions are right

Angllady2 i see your point but the majority of snakes natural diet is rodents and lizards and birds as you now so other then kingsnakes its just unnatural to see and this is almost identical to posting pics of a big human killing a smaller human and people standing by because like us these big snakes and balls dont have that many natural predators. seriously no offense but it is different.

Anything "natural" gets lost in captivity.
Snakes aren't fed f/t naturally. And they certainly don't eat domesticated Norway Rats naturally. That's as natural as a dog's natural diet being dry kibble.

Ball pythons have been seen to cannibalize other ball pythons. I'm sure its not unheard of other python species. Corns are well known for cannibalism.
And some non-kingsnake species do have an all snake diet.


I'm not trying to start an argument MonekyShuttle. I just think your point is rather irrelevant in regards to what is 'natural' and 'unnatural'.

my intention in posting this thread was not to start any arguments or debates.. those pictures were just shocking to me! I realize that animals eat other animals but it's still kinda sad.. I feel like someone did that for enjoyment instead of feeding the snake..


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ah ha! alright Satomi325! Gloves are coming off! you did it now. you see that thread post was to get your attention and lure you out into the open where i say this "your absolutely 100% correct, you win i forfeit and you have a great smile". i know better then to go there. i was just taking a shot at the question, is it any different? which IMO it really is. if i loved antelope and i saw a video of cheetah killing and eating an antelope, well this is eventually going to happen in the wild its inevitable, its nature. but if i loved pandas and i saw a video of a panda being eaten by a hippo just seems very unnatural to me and there fore more sympathy for the panda. cause no harm should ever come to a panda! there too damn cute.

I agree with satomi, the natural vs unnatural argument pretty much disintegrates when it comes to captivity. But for the sake of argument, many predators, including snakes, are opportunistic in the wild. So a species might normally eat rodents and birds, but who is to say it wouldn't eat another snake or an alligator if it came across one and was hungry? Coyotes don't naturally eat each other, but out here I have watched them attack and eat dogs (which ate closely related enough to interbreed and produce fertile offspring), along with cats and their more natural prey of rabbits, squirrels, and other rodents.

I don't like the pictures, but I also don't care for feeding pictures in general. So for me to be shocked, disgusted, or whatever, it's at least consistent. ;)

I understand there's a conversation going on at the moment, but I just wanted to say real picture or not, that this looks {messed} and whoever took this picture, photoshopped it, or whatever needs a good {scolding}.... In my opinion.

I'll shut up now. :rainon:

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Originally Posted by cassidyy327

my intention in posting this thread was not to start any arguments or debates.. those pictures were just shocking to me! I realize that animals eat other animals but it's still kinda sad.. I feel like someone did that for enjoyment instead of feeding the snake..


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Baloney, I don't believe you. The only reason for taking the time to post pictures like that on a forum like this is to cause a reaction. Which you accomplished.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I don't think its Photoshopped. But like I said before, I'm pretty sure its already dead. I've seen dead BPs with that expression, but never live ones.

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I still say the second is Photoshopped, but that BP is alive. I'm not so sure about the burm, though. The first pic looks like a BAD taxidermy job.

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As far as natural versus unnatural, that is why I feed f/t. In the wild the mouse/rat has a chance to get away and so I see it as a fair fight. Of course they were killed in an unnatural way to begin with, but I like to think that was quick and hopefully painless. I have other reasons as well but that is a different topic. I know my snake needs to eat, this is how I see the process as fair.

That being said, the reasons someone would feed a ball python to another snake are wrong. As someone mentioned earlier, they did it for enjoyment, not because their snake needed to eat one. I have a problem with that. I also believe that rodents we feed in captivity are at least close to what snakes eat in the wild, maybe different species, but rodents nonetheless. (Obviously there are exceptions, but if a snake can remain healthy in captivity on rodents then I would never feed anything else). I guess that what I am saying is that a ball python is not the natural prey of a Burm, nore close. This is not nature so why should we let animals suffer when we can feed an animal that died quickly? And I think the most important argument of all, this wasn't done for the right reasons.

I fail to see how this is like posting a picture of one human killing another. That is absurd. But if you want to go there, cannibalism was practiced for centuries and probably still is in places. Just because it shocks and offends you doesn't mean the cannibal sees it that way. A famous explorer who spent time with a cannibal tribe wrote in his journal about the practice: When I spoke with the chief about this horrible habit, he told me, "You eat cow and goat and pig, we eat men, what is the difference?" The cannibal doesn't see it as wrong or immoral, people are meat just like any other animal when you get down to it.

Now, as to why the person did it, who knows? Maybe they did do it for the shock factor. Maybe they did it just to see if the burm could be coaxed into eating another snake. Maybe they are brain damaged and think it's cool, who can say unless you are the person who did it. But, I promise you that ball python was dead. No way on earth would a live snake of any kind just sit still and get swallowed. That makes about as much sense as saying a pig or cow would just stand calmly while you skin it and cut off steaks. So regardless of whether you think this was cruel or wrong or not, don't make it a debate about the ball being eaten alive, because it wasn't.

Also remember that snakes, like most every other meat eating animal are opportunistic feeders, they eat whatever comes along including each other if they get hungry enough. Certainly some items would not be recognized as prey, such as insects, but by and large if the snake is hungry and can catch the animal, chances are it will get eaten. I'm sure we've all seen the photograph of the burm who died trying to eat an alligator. I'm quite sure alligators are not normal food for a burmese, but again if the snake is hungry enough and the food is there, it will eat if it can.

Most any meat eating animal is capable of cannibalism. A starving dog has no problem killing and eating another dog, nor do hungry cats hesitate to kill and eat each other. Birds do it, lizards do, frogs will, fish do, squid also do, mice and rats do it, even spiders eat each other, pigs will in fact eat anything they can, including people. So it isn't really as uncommon as you seem to think. Certainly being in captivity does change things, but really, it doesn't make that big of a difference. We've all heard about people who hoard cats or dogs dying and being eaten by their pets. This isn't really all that different. The burm was hungry, the ball python was there, so it ate.

Gale