News: 2 die in rock python attack

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Originally Posted by MarkS

A couple of things to remember.

The snake has ALREADY been convicted in the media.

There has been no medical report as of yet so actual cause of death is not known. These things tend to take a long time to complete. Much of the story will already be out of the media by the time the truth is known.

Once the actual cause of death is known, (and I'm betting that the snake will be exonerated) there will be NO followup reports in the media explaining that the snake was not at fault.

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ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. But if we get the facts right and have the right arguments to fend off the nonsense, then we can score where it matters: in the legislative and judicial battles.

But of course media perception matters. Any experts here? Anyone here working for NBC or MSNBC or CBS or (*vomit*) fox?

i dont know, just make us look not so bad in the media. There is an avalanche of very bad and nasty coming downhill on all keepers of constricting snakes, which includes ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. But if we get the facts right and have the right arguments to fend off the nonsense, then we can score where it matters: in the legislative and judicial battles.

But of course media perception matters. Any experts here? Anyone here working for NBC or MSNBC or CBS or (*vomit*) fox?

i dont know, just make us look not so bad in the media. There is an avalanche of very bad and nasty coming downhill on all keepers of constricting snakes, which includes ball pythons.

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We share the same feelings on fox news... But its not just a problem for constrictors but all snakes, a snake is a snake to someone afraid of them or misinformed. Its already next to impossible to own large snakes and venomous where I am. Cant even have a BCC without a permit and thats not easy to get. When stuff like this makes international news and countries start making laws, the whole world is watching and governments start to follow suit.

I completely agree with what everyone has said so far. What a horrible situation :( I definitely agree that there is something very fishy going on here. But also I wonder where the adults in this situation were? It said the boys were sleeping at a friends house (perhaps the third boy), who I would like to assume had at least one parent. And as discussed earlier it would be virtually impossible for all of this to happen so silently that no one else was woken up. So why were the boys bodies not found until the morning? Were there no adults home at all? How terrifying. I hope more details come to light explaining this tragedy better, because right now it just appears to be an unlikely mess.

Here is something interesting that was posted up on cornsnakes.com. The store owners name is John-Claude Savoie....

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/news-no...-00134-eng.htm

Accused of sexual assault with a weapon, sexual assault, assault with a weapon, assault, uttering threats, and pointing a firearm

Could be a coincidence, however.

Unfortunately for your theory, there's no such thing as coincidence.

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I just mean it could be a completely different person, with the same name.

However I'm not sure why but my first impression of the story, I just had a gut feeling that there would be something very sinister behind it, and sexual abuse was my first thought. Do not know why, but it was one of my first thoughts.

I am patiently hoping the public gets to see this unfold

I know why, two young children at an apartment over a store in the wee hours of the morning.

That spells more bad than it does good.

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Well if it does play out that way, everyone is just going to think all reptile owners are sickos and we will have fanatic religous groups protesting shows.. ok maybe not, bus still..

Snakes are the devil. :rolleyes:

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Saw the story on yahoo just now, most commenters there are calling bs too. Glad to see the public isn't buying this either.

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Thats good.

Well they just reported it on Good Morning America which is nothing more than a long format, glorified Entertainment Tonight as far as journalism is concerned. They reported it was a rock python but then showed pictures of a boa, blood python, and linked it to the video of the albino burmese found in the Florida shed. Talk about piling on with an agenda. Damage done, mission accomplished.

The deaths are a tragedy. But I wonder if we will hear the true results of the autopsy unless it is murder? Then that is more sensational than a snake attack so they will have to run with it.

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

Well they just reported it on Good Morning America which is nothing more than a long format, glorified Entertainment Tonight as far as journalism is concerned. They reported it was a rock python but then showed pictures of a boa, blood python, and linked it to the video of the albino burmese found in the Florida shed. Talk about piling on with an agenda. Damage done, mission accomplished.

The deaths are a tragedy. But I wonder if we will hear the true results of the autopsy unless it is murder? Then that is more sensational than a snake attack so they will have to run with it.

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x2. The story was also broadcast on my morning XM station today, complete with criticism toward anyone who "keeps an animal in a cage" (oh, except for zoos, of course). I attempted to call in before they even discussed it, but my comments weren't acknowledged on-air. Not surprised, just saddened.

I was wondering what everyone thought about the news of a python killing two children
Here's the link if u havnt seen it yet

- - - Updated - - -

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2619837

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-in-Boa-Attack

This is horrible news for the reptile industry. If you go on CNN.com, there is a post from a female reporter and she states that she is confused by this whole mess and does not believe that a python would strangle two boys and not try to eat one of them. She said the whole story makes no sense. So hopefully the mass of people reading the article will agree with her because it does NOT make any sense. I personally believe it is a covered up murder.

we really need to ask for, and wait, and watch out for, two crucially important pieces of information.


- AUTOPSY REPORTS. Bite marks consistent with the snake on both, yes or no? Cause of death consistent with strangulation or heart failure due to blood stream disruption? Or something else?

- CHARGES BEING FILED. The people that know most are the police officers investigating this right now. Investigations are secret, but as soon as charges are filed with prosecutors / state attorneys, it goes public. Will there be murder charges, or will there be charges consistent with a snake owner allowing a snake to escape, causing a freak accident?

pieces of data i picked up from CNN: Royal canadian mounted police has forensics experts and major crime experts working on this case, and autopsy of both boys will be performed today, august 6, 2013. Also the police is in possession of the snake, which is still alive.

So far the assertion that the snake did it is only based on what officers first believed when arriving at the scene. There is a complete investigation going on, but it seems like nothing leaked or got publicised about any results of that large scale investigation.

The media is still cautious because everything is based on heresay originating from the initial police response.

If the snake fell through the ceiling how did the kids not wake up screaming? Even if it grabbed both kids and they were being strangled they didnt scream at all? My sister has given everyone a heart attack waking me up in the middle of the nite for the stupidest crap. If she can wake everyone up screaming because she can't find her stuffed animal Buttons, i think she'd be just fine waking us up over the killer snake. Shes 5, same age as the boys.

I think this is a cover up for a double homicide as robin said. He had the perfect scape goat, use the snake that lived right down stairs. They REALLY better investigate this thoroughly and not just automatically write it off. They need to check the whole ventilation system bc if the dust isn't disturbed all the way through it then that kills that theory of how the snake got there. Also, the snake didn't eat them, just killed both? That's not how a snake works. It would wrapped one and killed him and eat him, then gone for the second. I just don't believe any of it.

good grief I live in a tiny town and its in the morning paper here! I call bs on the whole thing!

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Originally Posted by H.o.F.R

good grief I live in a tiny town and its in the morning paper here! I call bs on the whole thing!

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Maybe write a commentary to that newpaper explaining why you think it's a bunch of baloney?

I hate the media... yep a python killed two boys heres a picture of a boa and a corn snake... oh and by the way we have no real evidence as to what happened but were going to shove this fear mongering crap down your throats so you can be even more scares of snakes or somehow confirm your fears. I know everyone that thinks pythons eat kids is sitting there right now saying i told you so, better make more laws so these creepy people cant have them and their 50ft annacondapythonboa cant terrorize the neighborhood.

My dad told me about this on the phone yesterday. My first reaction was, "What? That's not right." and second reaction, "Now all snake keepers are going to get hell for this." It doesn't make any sense, and doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Once the actual cause of death is known, (and I'm betting that the snake will be exonerated) there will be NO followup reports in the media explaining that the snake was not at fault.

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This. End.
Reminds me of the Diane Whipple case in San Francisco. She was killed in her apartment by two dogs that attacked her. The media immediately called them pit bulls, it went nationwide. Pit bulls killed a woman in San Francisco. Then the truth came out. They weren't pit bulls, they were Presa Canarios (a mastiff breed). A small handful of reports gave the truth about the dogs' identity, and it was quickly swept under the rug and forgotten. I'm sure many people still think those dogs were pit bulls.
Probably will be the same thing here. When it is discovered the snake did not actually kill these boys, a handful of truthful media outlets will put out a short blurb about it, and then quickly sweep it under the rug. The rest of the media outlets won't even bother, just quickly move on to the next big story.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

x2. The story was also broadcast on my morning XM station today, complete with criticism toward anyone who "keeps an animal in a cage" (oh, except for zoos, of course). I attempted to call in before they even discussed it, but my comments weren't acknowledged on-air. Not surprised, just saddened.

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Anyone who keeps an animal in a cage eh? Hmm... That will include far more than just reptile keepers! Since rodents and rabbits are also kept in cages, as well as birds. Let's not forget. Oh yeah... even dogs are kept in cages! Does "cage" include fenced in pens or stalls? If so, then livestock keepers must be included in that. Typical media broadcast... opening their mouths without thinking.

What im hoping, and i feel bad for saying this,(no young boys should die) is that it IS foul play and the person who did it was using the snake as a cover up. Now THAT would definately make news, and possibly cause the general public to question past "snake attacks", in hopes that snakes are considered less dangerous...that the idea that snakes deliberately go out and attack people, mainly children, is just plain crazy...which it is.

sent from my incubator

So this story is number 1 on the Yahoo main page, and according to the article, the preliminary investigation yields "evidence" that the snake did it.


This is complete bullcrap (pardon me....gets me angry), but everyone in the comments is posting "well, my python loving friends sure are misinformed about their pets".

I already have prepared my family as best I can for the realization that we will probably have to get rid of our snake when this story causes the NEPA amendments to be passed.

My heart goes out to the family of the 2 boys, this is a tragedy. I think there's a few things we should take into consideration aside from who is responsible & if this afrock even "did it."

I think we should be speaking out against the owner & what we know for sure at this point.
1) African rock pythons ARE ILLEGAL in New Brunswick (3m rule in effect)
2) This facility was a "zoo" until it lost its accreditation a few years ago for poor husbandry.
3) There was an active petition in place by local hobbyists to have this store shut down (poor husbandry again)

We need to educate more people about our hobby. Many/most of us do not keep "giants" and the last thing we need is the whole hobby being painted with the same brush.

Page 2 of the Toronto Sun had the story this morning, with a pic of a ball python next to a pic of the store saying "a snake similar to the 'African python' as seen on reptile oceans website"

This keeper may be 'like us' but he isn't one of us. If for some strange reason the autopsies come back to show this animal was responsible we need to be a step ahead.

We have to be smart about how this is viewed & we need to do some damage control. The first step, and something we can all do is always ensure you enclosures are secure & care for your animals properly... http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/06/ra6ypyta.jpg

one thing that makes me angry when i look at news reports uploaded to youtube....


They all fail to mention that the python crashed down through a ceiling tile!

a ceiling tile broke and 50 pounds of meat fell, together with ceiling tile debris, into the room.

The media just dropped it and only mentions the ventilation system.

The thing is, this is the one piece of information that REALLY DOES NOT FIT THE STORY. It calls it all into question. Everyone would ask: How the heck did two boys that age not wake up when a ceiling tile broke and 50 pounds of meat crashed onto the floor?

it calls the story into question, so what does the media do? THEY DROP IT. THEY REPORT WITHOUT MENTIONING THIS. They drop this detail to make the story more consistent, more believable. They dont want to report inconsistent and self-contradicting stories, so they remove the inconsistency by erasing how the snake supposedly entered the room.

That really makes me angry.

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Originally Posted by AnotherBallPun

My heart goes out to the family of the 2 boys, this is a tragedy. I think there's a few things we should take into consideration aside from who is responsible & if this afrock even "did it."

I think we should be speaking out against the owner & what we know for sure at this point.
1) African rock pythons ARE ILLEGAL in New Brunswick (3m rule in effect)
2) This facility was a "zoo" until it lost its accreditation a few years ago for poor husbandry.
3) There was an active petition in place by local hobbyists to have this store shut down (poor husbandry again)

We need to educate more people about our hobby. Many/most of us do not keep "giants" and the last thing we need is the whole hobby being painted with the same brush.

Page 2 of the Toronto Sun had the story this morning, with a pic of a ball python next to a pic of the store saying "a snake similar to the 'African python' as seen on reptile oceans website"

This keeper may be 'like us' but he isn't one of us. If for some strange reason the autopsies come back to show this animal was responsible we need to be a step ahead.

We have to be smart about how this is viewed & we need to do some damage control. The first step, and something we can all do is always ensure you enclosures are secure & care for your animals properly... http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/06/ra6ypyta.jpg

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is it me or did they post a pic of a ball python? lol. the headline calls it a boa, the story says its a rock python and the pic shows a ball python! EXCELLENT investigative reporting!

Seriously can't NBC or CNN just invite me onto their show to explain why this sounds like BS? I wish there wasn't such a distance between the leaders and the people. One lunch with president obama and i bet i'd have him shooting down any of the stupid anti snake laws... I hate this country. Canada sucks too, btw.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Seriously can't NBC or CNN just invite me onto their show to explain why this sounds like BS? I wish there wasn't such a distance between the leaders and the people. One lunch with president obama and i bet i'd have him shooting down any of the stupid anti snake laws... I hate this country. Canada sucks too, btw.

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The media is having a field day with misinformation.

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Originally Posted by AnotherBallPun

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/06/ra6ypyta.jpg

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Notice the line under the photo? "A snake similar to an African python". I guess they're technically not wrong as a BP is a python from Africa...

But how do you mistake this

http://www.photomazza.com/IMG/jpg_Il...ni_c_Mazza.jpg

for this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KmBmZqUxdp...0/python03.jpg

(Also, in case you're curious, that BP pic comes from a blog titled 'Dangerous Snakes' :rolleyes: )

Apparently, all snakes are the same now, and 'journalists' can't even be bothered to google properly. Even if you type in 'African Python' you get pics of Rock Pythons, though I don't really know if that's being caused by the poopstorm around this story or not.

Why does everything have to be entertaining, why does everything have to be sensational, why cant they just report FACTS, stop speculating, report on whats known, and let the people speculate among themselves and determine their own opinions until more FACTS are made available. The medias influence on people is disgusting, people cant think for themselves anymore, what the media says is true and we must follow! :salute: A world full of ignorance and idiocy.

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Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

Why does everything have to be entertaining, why does everything have to be sensational, why cant they just report FACTS, stop speculating, report on whats known, and let the people speculate among themselves and determine their own opinions until more FACTS are made available. The medias influence on people is disgusting, people cant think for themselves anymore, what the media says is true and we must follow! :salute: A world full of ignorance and idiocy.

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I have an answer to that ... its called ratings, and ratings = $$$$$$$$$$$$ im old enough to remember when the news was just about the facts. Yes sometimes it was boring, but it was REAL. The only way this stuff is ever going to change is if the news is not run by the rating scale anymore, and they figure out a way to make news about news and not about who gets rich! $$$$ is going to kill this world! it has corrupted everything!!!!

I agree this sounds like total bs and some kind of cover up. I bet if they look closely there a lot more information and issues that leading up to this event. I wait until the reports are out .

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Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

Why does everything have to be entertaining, why does everything have to be sensational, why cant they just report FACTS, stop speculating, report on whats known, and let the people speculate among themselves and determine their own opinions until more FACTS are made available. The medias influence on people is disgusting, people cant think for themselves anymore, what the media says is true and we must follow! :salute: A world full of ignorance and idiocy.

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Bolded my thoughts... pretty much. People can't think for themselves, and scarier yet, do not WANT to think for themselves. It is far easier to have someone else spoon feed you propaganda...

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

Notice the line under the photo? "A snake similar to an African python". I guess they're technically not wrong as a BP is a python from Africa...

But how do you mistake this

http://www.photomazza.com/IMG/jpg_Il...ni_c_Mazza.jpg

for this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KmBmZqUxdp...0/python03.jpg

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Easily, neither picture has anything in it to give the viewer an idea of the snake's overall size. Putting the two snakes side by side in the same picture would tell a very different story, but that's not sensational and it doesn't sell.

Sadly, to most people a snake is a snake is a snake, and they don't have a clue with the differences between the boids, colubrids, and venomous species, never mind the difference between a rock python and a ball python.

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Originally Posted by The Huffington Post

A snake expert said it was possible that the python was spooked and simply clung to whatever it landed on.

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That sounds, unfortunately, believable. That would explain why it didn't try to eat the kids, and could explain a lack of bite marks.
The odds of the news media explaining this as a bizarre incident, such as a person being hit on the head by a meteor, though, is unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

Notice the line under the photo? "A snake similar to an African python". I guess they're technically not wrong as a BP is a python from Africa...

But how do you mistake this

http://www.photomazza.com/IMG/jpg_Il...ni_c_Mazza.jpg

for this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KmBmZqUxdp...0/python03.jpg

(Also, in case you're curious, that BP pic comes from a blog titled 'Dangerous Snakes' :rolleyes: )

Apparently, all snakes are the same now, and 'journalists' can't even be bothered to google properly. Even if you type in 'African Python' you get pics of Rock Pythons, though I don't really know if that's being caused by the poopstorm around this story or not.

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That's completely ridiculous, it's like putting a picture of a Pomeranian in a story about a dog attack. The news media is made up of uneducated fools, that's the only logical explanation for their constantly 'getting it wrong'

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Originally Posted by MarkS

That's completely ridiculous, it's like putting a picture of a Pomeranian in a story about a dog attack. The news media is made up of uneducated fools, that's the only logical explanation for their constantly 'getting it wrong'

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I'm assuming you mean like a big dog attacking a person

If a pomeranian attacked me wouldn't it be accurate to put a picture of one in the story? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I'm assuming you mean like a big dog attacking a person

If a pomeranian attacked me wouldn't it be accurate to put a picture of one in the story? :confused:

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Do you know anyone that would run a story about a Pomeranian attack?

I originally wrote pitbull attack, but I didn't want to unfairly single out any specific breed.

first off i want to say that my heart goes out this family and i will be keeping them in my thoughts.

ok...second of all i agree with what all you guys are saying in that the news reporters are doing a lousy job giving all the details on this incident, which is leading people to believe all these wild accusations and basically doing a job of crippling the herp society ....anyway i live a couple hours away from where all of this has happened, and i am to the point where i want to beat people away with a stick because they keep asking me all these questions like "why would you keep such an animal?", "aren't you scared that it might strangle you?", "why would this snake strangle the kids?","can they really get that big?"....etc.. the usually questions but with only more intensity. then the majority of these people have the audacity to tell me that i am wrong and they believe/fallow all the things they are saying on the news like a herd of sheep (i am utterly disappointed). i just wish the news was still about the facts and not about the ratings. but anyway i will keep holding on and continue to educate as many of these people as i can for the greater good of our herp society.

(sorry for the poor writing, i had to type this up fast as im at work)

At least they are asking questions and trying to learn more; my mother-in-law jumped straight to "You have to get rid of all your snakes before one of them strangles your daughter in her sleep!" last night on the phone.

For those of you with facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Urban...02915186391965

For those without:

"Update: The official word from RCMP according to Indian River Reptile Zoo curator Bry Loyst, is that teeth marks have been found on the children and the evening the event occurred they had been at a petting zoo or farm until 10:30pm.

Stay tuned for another quick update show with details later today.

(Photo of actual python from Ocean Reptiles owner Jean Claude's FB)"

-Urban Jungles Radio

If this proves to be true, its a black day for all of us.

Hmm, have an interview to discuss african rock pythons with the media about this in a little bit. . . maybe I should've said no.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Hmm, have an interview to discuss african rock pythons with the media about this in a little bit. . . maybe I should've said no.

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I think an interview from an educated herper's perspective is definitely needed at this time. Good luck!! And please keep us posted on any status updates/response/link to interview!

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Hmm, have an interview to discuss african rock pythons with the media about this in a little bit. . . maybe I should've said no.

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Well hopefully you will get through to someone, regardless of what actually occurred, this is out of the norm, and people should know that, whether they choose to accept it is up to them, but maybe, just maybe someone will understand.

Yeah, that's the only reason I agreed, it's better to keep ones oppinions out of the papers and medias hands. Which is why I will only be giving them facts about giants and living with giants, and information on attack histories if they ask specificaly. But I'm fairly certain the topic of the actual deaths will, and should, be avoided.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Yeah, that's the only reason I agreed, it's better to keep ones oppinions out of the papers and medias hands. Which is why I will only be giving them facts about giants and living with giants, and information on attack histories if they ask specificaly. But I'm fairly certain the topic of the actual deaths will, and should, be avoided.

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Try not to say anything that will fuel the wrong fire.
And try to let everyone know that African rock pythons are already regulated in the US of A. Damage control, amigo. :rolleyes:
(Just so you know, I can't seem to find a place anywhere in Texas that has African Rock Pythons.)

Our hopes and futures rest on you

^^^ no pressure though

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

Try not to say anything that will fuel the wrong fire.
And try to let everyone know that African rock pythons are already regulated in the US of A. Damage control, amigo. :rolleyes:
(Just so you know, I can't seem to find a place anywhere in Texas that has African Rock Pythons.)

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Please keep the word "Regulations" out of it all together. The last thing we need in Canada is more regulations.