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just a quick update- the one in the cut egg didn't make it- It did for a while, but eventually i noticed a smell :p
on the bright side I just candled the remaining eggs and they all are looking good- much more "full" of baby snake and I could even see some of them moving around inside! it was very exciting.
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Sorry the cut one didn't make it. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the clutch, though!
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i can't be the only one who wants pictures of this whole shenanigan, right?
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I agree, I'd love to see photos of everything
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelobutter
just a quick update- the one in the cut egg didn't make it- It did for a while, but eventually i noticed a smell :p
on the bright side I just candled the remaining eggs and they all are looking good- much more "full" of baby snake and I could even see some of them moving around inside! it was very exciting.
Sorry to hear about the cut one. At least you will learn from this mistake and not let it happen again. Plus the other eggs are thriving now, can't go wrong with that.
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Pictures of? the eggs? they are pretty standard lol.
I have one picture of the egg I cut. but I will reiterate, I cut a small flap, and then when all i saw was white- I assumed it was rotten (I have had to chuck an egg from a different clutch a while ago it was rotting and candled clear so i cut it open to see if anything developed at all (like an autopsy) so I can look up what the problem was to see if it might be a problem with incubation or with the egg itself) anyways when i cut this egg and saw the white and absolutely no sign of a snake I assumed it was rotten as well (it looked the same as a dud egg) so I just ripped the flap open with no care whatsoever. only when i had done this did i realize that there indeed was a snake in there- just much much younger than would be expected by day 52. So I can share that photo if you would like but to me it is just sad, since it is basically a photo of a snake i killed. so yes I have that photo. I didn't take a photo when the cut egg eventually rotted. It smelled terrible but i still did take it apart to see just what had developed, but I didn't take a photo of that, i was just upset and didn't think of it. btw it was a perfect little snake and made me feel 10 x worse to know it would have been fine if I had just left it alone, maybe 5 inches long and the thickest part was about the size of a dime? it's hard to remember.
how many posts do I need before I can add a photo? I can't as of yet
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Use imageshack to upload photos and post here.
Sent from my N861 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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will photobucket work the same?
never mind i have an image shack account too
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Ok so here is a picture of the egg. remember - I made a small cut, thought the egg was a dud, opened it up all the way, realized it was alive - closed it and immediately started asking for help. so long story short - yes I know this is cut open way too much. if you look on the left side of the egg you can see my original cut- the rest is when i thought it was dead.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/287/mw4u.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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I don't see the pic... Photobucket works better in my opinion. Copy and paste the BBCode.
I hope the rest of your clutch goes well! We all make mistakes, but I think several million years of evolution and an ice age should adapt the eggs for when http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/...extra/poop.gif happens!
:)
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whooo hoo! the first one just pipped! and for some reason the other image from 2 posts ago is deleted from my image shack account? never had that happen before
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6528/0rnq.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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four out last night and one just came out of his egg today- but his "umbilical cord" is still attached- He/she is on moist paper towels so hopefully that will do it's thing and fall off or whatever soon- my big question is the very tip of his tail is kinked or maybe not kinked but spun in a "curlyQ" and a sibling that is still in the egg but I can see it has the same thing going on just the last 1/3 of an inch is twisty. anything I can do? is that because of incubation problems or genetics? I have a pic on my ipod (camera is dead) let me see if I can upload it
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sorry for the terrible quality - my ipod is not a great camera haha
but ya you can see the last little tip of the tail is curled. genetic or incubation ? this one and at least one that hasn't come out of the egg have it.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8575/yirv.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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clutch #2 is sad
so clutch number two is all messed up... but the other two clutches are fine no deformities that I can see yet - sooo not incubation temp? so is this a fluke- or does one of the parents have bad genes, or something else I am not thinking of?
so far
clutch #1- all hatched - 4 normals all healthy
clutch #2-
(hatched) one with kink tail tip,
(hatched)one with kink tail tip and a bit of umbilical cord attached- think it will be fine,
(kind of hatched) one with kink tail and out of its egg with lots of yolk left still attached the size of a nickel in circumference
one severely deformed- kinks everywhere, misshapen head, miss placed eyes, umbilical cord wrapped around its head/neck- won't live
one that looks fine from what i can see- except the very tip of the tail is stubbed.
clutch #3 - in a separate incubator- all still in eggs but piped and all look healthy from what parts I can see.
so. I am pretty bummed about the kinks and the really deformed one.
What would everyone do in this case? not breed either of the parents again?
what's the best way to put the really deformed one out of it's misery?
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so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
So sorry about clutch #2. As for putting down the severely kinked one, quickest and most humane method is destroying the brain. And I wouldn't rule out incubation issues yet. When were the different clutches put in the incubator? Where were they located relative to the heat source?
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all the eggs went in on the same day though I am pretty sure clutch 1 was laid right after I checked early on 6/3 and clutch 2 and 3 were laid late 6/4.
clutch 1 and 2 were in separate tubs in the same incubator, clutch 3 was in the second incubator.
the severely deformed one died on it's own, once in got mostly out of the egg i don't think it was compatible with life outside. I did take pictures but it pretty much looks like a deformed snake. I also grabbed new pictures with my good camera of the tail tips that are kinked. let me see if I can upload those.
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
you cant breed the kinked ones... but those kinks arent life ending. honestly you could keep them as pets or sell them to someone for a pet, but i do not believe that will effect its well being... if you do want to put them down though, alot of people put them in the freezer and there bodies just slow down until their heart stops... or you could also us C02 to kill them the most humane... looks up how to make a C02 chamber with a pop bottle... its pretty easy and you can use it on rodents as well!
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmurffy
alot of people put them in the freezer and there bodies just slow down until their heart stops... or you could also us C02 to kill them the most humane... looks up how to make a C02 chamber with a pop bottle... its pretty easy and you can use it on rodents as well!
No.
BOTH of these methods are far too prolonged to be 'humane.'
Ziplock baggie, paper towels, and a hammer. This would honestly be the most 'humane' way of dealing with babies that MUST be put down. It's unfortunate, but sometimes we, as humans, must do things to prevent future suffering of our precious animals. The quickest way possible is the most humane way... not the prolonged ways described in the above quote. Get a hammer, put the suffering animal in a bag, and smash the head. Over in 1 second instead of HOURS of suffering in a freezer or CO2 chamber.
OP... great job for sticking through all of this. Everyone has made mistakes so don't feel like you are alone in this. Keep pushing along! I bet next season will be a great one for you :)
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thanks- the baby that was really deformed died on his own- and as terrible as the hammer method sounds visually.. your right- super quick.
I think I am just going to keep the kink tail babies unless I can find someone who just wants them as pets- I am a bit nervous about shedding issues so we will have to see how that goes. and hopefully that is the only kink they have- i know sometimes kinked snakes have additional less visible kinks - so for now I will hold on to them but we will see what their future holds.
and long story short- yes I am looking forward to next season. this one has put me through the mill for sure. Plus some of my nice females should be breeding size by then so I will be able to make some nicer morphs - what incubator does everyone use? I am sick of these reptibators. I mean- I guess they work, but I want to upgrade. I can't really afford the super fancy ones, but is there a step or two up from the junky styrofoam ones? i see a lot of people make their own- I can do that (and have before for hatching poultry) but I would love to see the manufactured incubators that people use.
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
I gotta say Bobmurrfy, you are one wacked out monkey telling this guy he can kill his snakes. Those are small tail kinks man, you must have no compassion for these animals what so ever.
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelobutter
That second baby with the kinked tail looks adorable oh my word. I know kinks are not a good thing, but he's still cute!
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeballer
I gotta say Bobmurrfy, you are one wacked out monkey telling this guy he can kill his snakes. Those are small tail kinks man, you must have no compassion for these animals what so ever.
im not the one who suggested that, i told him the kinks didnt look bad enough for the snake to be in life threatening pain and that he should keep them as pets and just dont breed them...
as for a C02 method... its no different than a person sitting in his running car in a garage and dying from it... they say its just like falling asleep.. look it up its the most humane and non violent way of putting an animal down... and you dont feel like :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: after smashing your snake with a hammer :O
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmurffy
as for a C02 method... its no different than a person sitting in his running car in a garage and dying from it... they say its just like falling asleep.. look it up its the most humane and non violent way of putting an animal down... and you dont feel like :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: after smashing your snake with a hammer :O
What I've read is it takes a long time because snakes have slower respiration than mammals.
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ANNYways- the baby i needed to put down died on his own. so we don't need to figure out the most humane way to kill something anymore- i am sure there is a thread full of it somewhere on here already.
the kinks are staying with me unless I can find appropriate pet homes- that being said- some breeders would at this point choose to cull those ones as well- i mean - I now have 4 snakes that I can't use, taking up 4 tubs in my rack. I have to be careful where they go so they don't get bred, but in the mean time I am stuck with them. I personally love them so it is ok, but I can see why a breeder would cull.
my question now is what caused this? i would say temperature obviously, since that was the whole start of this thread in the first place- but every baby hatched from the first clutch (same incubator) is perfect. and the third clutch is beautiful- so now I don't know if the temperature is the issue- or if it is why it didn't effect the other clutch. if it is genetic then how do i go about finding out if it was the mom or the dad's genes?
here is a pic of a pretty and not kinked baby just to make this thread happy again lol
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7343/xjk6.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshinenorcas
That second baby with the kinked tail looks adorable oh my word. I know kinks are not a good thing, but he's still cute!
I agree 100%. I guess I'm who thinks 'abnormalities' simply give them more character. Not like a little kink is going to make it a special needs snake.
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
To answer your question about why they are kinked and the others are not could be due to each being on different days in incubation. Some stages can take more change than other stages. I personally would do the same breeding next year and have them incubate alone away from everything else in it's own incubator that is watched like a hawk. If nothing goes wrong then it was just the temps and that is where I am leaning on this one anyways.
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so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Poor little guys. But I have to agree, those curly tails are adorable. And they definitely don't look life threatening. As long as they can defecate without issue, I don't see why you can't find them pet-only homes.
If you do decide to rehome them, I'd give a disclaimer to the buyer. I'd imagine you'd have to be religious about keeping the humidity up so there's no risk of shed getting stuck on that kink. Hopefully you won't have to assist too much with shedding. Keep us posted on how that first shed goes!
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ya I think they will be fine I am a bit nervous about shedding, some of the kinks are all but attached to the rest of the tail so I am not sure how it will go, but that isn't going to kill them if I pay attention to it.
they have beautiful markings so I am sure I can find them pet homes- you know someone who wants a pretty snake but has no intention of breeding- might just take a while.
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Here is clutch # 2
So finding these guys pet homes: how would someone go about doing that? I don't want to put them on my website like "oh hey this whole clutch stinks- but I swear the other ones are great!" haha but at the same time I am in a fairly rural area so the chances of me knowing or running into someone who wants one isn't very high. If they were puppies with defects I would spay/neuter them before finding them homes but that's not really something someone does with a snake lol. Basically what would you guys do it it was your clutch to make sure they went to good homes but not someone who was going to breed them? would you charge anything? i don't want to ask for money for them just because they are pet only snakes but I am afraid that if I don't ask anything or enough then someone who doesn't really care about them would pick them up because "why not?" - sigh ...advice?
here is clutch # 2 all of them have at least some bit of a kinked tail tip:
"Spot"
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/96/qoeg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/17/pu2s.jpg
"Sickle"
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/138/nzxb.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/22/4opb.jpg
"Pug"
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/59/hwcf.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/849/nxrn.jpg
"no name normal"
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/443/hm8f.jpg
(excuse the dog hair i picked up somewhere)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/407/2s2t.jpg
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Oh I love Sickle and Pug!! As for adopting them, are you able to ship? I would charge a small rehoming fee, and maybe there's a contract you can have people sign to ensure they won't breed them. Of course, some people may just breed them anyway, but it shows you're serious about them being pet only. It's definitely a tough spot to be in.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4
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Clutch #1 all normals
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MootWorm
Oh I love Sickle and Pug!! As for adopting them, are you able to ship? I would charge a small rehoming fee, and maybe there's a contract you can have people sign to ensure they won't breed them. Of course, some people may just breed them anyway, but it shows you're serious about them being pet only. It's definitely a tough spot to be in.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4
Yes I can ship- my local fed ex is a butt though so I have to go to the main fed ex hub but it's only a little bit of an extra drive. contract is a good idea- and yes some people will breed anyways but I think that that is all i can do unless I keep them all
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and clutch 3 is still hatching. but i see a pastel and a lesser so I am excited.
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Angelobutter- if you want to adopt them to pet only, PM me in a few weeks after they shed and eat for you :) I don't want to bred, and I was thinking about adding another little one anyways and think that Pug is adorable
Edit; and I am terrible at the morphs- are they spider somethings?
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ya I would be much more into adopting them out to people from this forum- at least then I know they like ball pythons lol. Once I get them shed and eating well I will get a hold of anyone interested
and yes they are spider- (correct me if I am wrong- the odd patterns are throwing me off a bit but they aren't light enough to be bees). it was a normal bred to a lesser, a spider and a bumblebee though I did NOT see the bee lock. unfortunately now I am kicking myself for ever putting the bee in there, because now that I question the kinks to be genes of the clutch I don't know if the bee sired the clutch and just got all spiders, or if the spider sired the clutch. so now I have two boys in question unfortunately. so I have to figure that one out when I try to replicate the breeding next year in a more controlled incubation test. oh well- this year has certainly been a year of learning by making mistakes - maybe next year I will get someone experienced to line up the breeding season for me.
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so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
I would love to have one.. They are still really beautiful snakes
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I don't think you'll have any trouble finding pet only homes for them, they're really cute. I'd happily take Spot if I didn't already have Little Dude as my "pet," although if I started to breed my own feeders...
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ok so yet another problem- a clutch 3 baby was still 1/2 way in his egg as of this morning, i peeked in and saw his umbilical cord is wrapped around his belly. thought maybe he was close to coming out of the egg so I left him, just looked now and he is mostly out of the egg and his umbilical cord has a knot in it and a lot of the yolk is not absorbed- that is still in his egg- he is like 90% out of his egg, just his tail and the yolk are still in it. so with this knot.. do I just let it be? or is there some sort of intervention i can do? obviously he doesn't have enough nutrition to keep him healthy without absorbing the yolk so I am bummed again.
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How are these little guys doing?
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Update 9/6
hey- I meant to update once I had gotten everyone eating, but There is enough interest i will update now. I have not gotten the spiders eating yet, but about half of the other babies have eaten so I am sure they will start soon. They have all shed though I had to help the two worst kinked ones (spot and pug) with the very tip of the tail when they shed- just a quick soak and it came right off, but whoever gets them needs to be prepped that they might always need a bit of help with shedding that kinked tip. I will work of getting them eating, hopefully in the next day or two- but they look like they are doing well so far. thanks again for everyone who talked me through all this
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/841/gdna.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/849/yxk3.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/839/amqq.jpg
Oh and as an update for the one who had a knot in his umbilical cord: he eventually cut the cord trying to move around but I think he did manage to absorb a bit of the yolk before hand- he is visibly much smaller and thinner than his sibling but I am hoping once he starts eating he will catch up. very active and a beautiful pastel. First pic is the pastel sibling who hatched normally and the second image is the pastel baby who had the knot in his cord.
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/841/mgdx.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/825/xsfe.jpg
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Re: so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Thanks for the update! Sounds like they're doing well and some are thriving!
Good luck with feeding the other half.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmurffy
as for a C02 method... its no different than a person sitting in his running car in a garage and dying from it... they say its just like falling asleep.. look it up its the most humane and non violent way of putting an animal down... and you dont feel like :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: after smashing your snake with a hammer :O
Actually CO2 cannot work for reptiles and is in fact inhumane. Yes you are correct that it is indeed humane to put certain animals down (I.e birds and mammals) using CO2, but not reptiles.
They have a lower metabolism and respiratory rate. They go through spans of apnea where they do not need to breathe. You have a good chance of the reptile surviving a CO2 chamber, which could be an agonizing process for them. Its just best to euthanize a snake via instantaneous brain destruction if you do it at home.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!
Good to hear that things are looking up! And I'm glad that little knotty pastel hung in there. He's a cutie pie :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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so quick update for those of you who were interested in the kink tailed spiders: they are still being assist fed. not fully- I just pop a fuzzy in their mouths and they do the rest- I think this is due to them having some head wobble, or more like they turn their heads upside down, so I think that is making it tricky for them to eat on their own. Anyways, because of this- I have not tried to find them homes yet- I want to know they are eating on their own before that. besides that they are doing well. so hopefully they get the knack of eating and they can find their permanent homes :)
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