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  • 07-26-2013, 03:15 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    there goes pacman frogs. :(
  • 07-26-2013, 03:16 PM
    PghBall
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    I used the link that Brian (Simple Man) had on FB to send the email :gj:
  • 07-26-2013, 03:29 PM
    FireStorm
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Does anybody participate on any other pet forums? I know many of you keep other exotics (mammals, birds, etc). I don't know if any other exotic animal groups are aware of this proposal legislation, but it seems like we might be able to get some support as it may impact them as well.
  • 07-26-2013, 03:42 PM
    FireStorm
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blubb View Post
    Is there something European snake keepers can do? I assume we don't have any influence whatsoever in the Lacey Act. Or am I wrong? :confuzd:

    I am not sure it will help, but I would suggest emailing USFWS even if you are outside the US. I don't see how it could hurt. Here is the contact info, and a version of the letter you can use, in case you don't have one already.

    Email Address: prevent_invasives@fws.gov.

    Subject Line (please use this as the subject of your email): Categorical Exclusion; FWS–HQ–FHC–2013–N044

    As a member of the herpetoculture community I am against the proposed US Fish & Wildlife “Categorical Exclusion” from NEPA mandates and I would like to support Senate EPW Ranking Member Vitter’s request for a 90 day extension on the public comment period.

    This type of Categorical Exclusion is too far reaching and without precedent. It could facilitate the arbitrary addition of animals to the injurious wildlife list of the Lacey Act; potentially threatening the entire $1.4 billion annual commerce in reptiles and amphibians. Not only would it negate due process, but it would also negate legal recourse under NEPA. Categorical Exclusion could potentially become a tool to destroy my small business. Please consider the following points:

    The proposed categorical exclusion bypasses the requirement to consider economic and social impacts under NEPA.
    A categorical exclusion would not allow FWS to fully consider the beneficial impacts of declining to list a species under the Lacey Act.
    The proposed categorical exclusion is much broader than any of the other eight exclusions that FWS has approved under “permitting and regulatory functions”.
    The FWS’s “extraordinary circumstances” exception to a categorical exclusion is unhelpful because it does not apply to actions with high economic impacts.
    Thank you.
  • 07-26-2013, 03:52 PM
    C&H Exotic Morphs
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FireStorm View Post
    Does anybody participate on any other pet forums? I know many of you keep other exotics (mammals, birds, etc). I don't know if any other exotic animal groups are aware of this proposal legislation, but it seems like we might be able to get some support as it may impact them as well.

    We have sent emails, sent typed letters and shared it every where we possibly can even recruiting friends and family that don't even necessarily like our snakes!
    I know USARK is working with PIJAC so hopefully they are spreading the word to other exotic groups!

    Hopefully the members here that are part of other exotic forums and groups are sharing this info in those places as well!
    It definitely can't hurt!
  • 07-26-2013, 04:10 PM
    angelreg1362
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    This makes me so mad. Why are they doing this and what do they think they're going to get out of it? No one realizes what the reptile breeding world is. For some, it's their job. That's how they make their ends meet, like BHB. I bet they don't have a second job. Some people are so ignorant about snakes, and if they come in and try to take my babies away I'll tell them just to hold a ball python and they'll realize what this is. Heck, a dog bite is worse than a ball python bite. this just makes me so mad.
  • 07-26-2013, 04:10 PM
    SapphireTigress1
    Another thing people dont seem to realize about this...Not only have they tried to ban all "exotics", they have attempted to ban all "constricting snakes". Ball pythons, corn snakes, sand boas, etc...pretty much all non-venomous are constrictors. This WILL eventually affect every single person who owns an animal.
  • 07-26-2013, 04:19 PM
    C&H Exotic Morphs
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by angelreg1362 View Post
    This makes me so mad. Why are they doing this and what do they think they're going to get out of it? No one realizes what the reptile breeding world is. For some, it's their job. That's how they make their ends meet, like BHB. I bet they don't have a second job. Some people are so ignorant about snakes, and if they come in and try to take my babies away I'll tell them just to hold a ball python and they'll realize what this is. Heck, a dog bite is worse than a ball python bite. this just makes me so mad.

    It is US Fish & Wildlife being pushed from the animal rights groups like PETA and HSUS(the true evils for all pet owners)!
    Their main goal is to eliminate ALL pets period!
    Its just easier for them to start with exotics, spec. our non main stream reptiles especially the larger constrictors because they aren't as popular and have a long standing stigma so a lot of people don't really care about them and don't understand what it really means in the long run.
  • 07-26-2013, 04:45 PM
    FireStorm
    Ug. I guess that version of the letter didn't copy correctly. Let's try this again.

    Subject Line: Categorical Exclusion; FWS–HQ–FHC–2013–N044
    As a member of the herpetoculture community I am against the proposed US Fish & Wildlife “Categorical Exclusion” from NEPA mandates and I would like to support Senate EPW Ranking Member Vitter’s request for a 90 day extension on the public comment period.
    This type of Categorical Exclusion is too far reaching and without precedent. It could facilitate the arbitrary addition of animals to the injurious wildlife list of the Lacey Act; potentially threatening the entire $1.4 billion annual commerce in reptiles and amphibians. Not only would it negate due process, but it would also negate legal recourse under NEPA. Categorical Exclusion could potentially become a tool to destroy my small business. Please consider the following points:

    1. The proposed categorical exclusion bypasses the requirement to consider economic and social impacts under NEPA.
    2. A categorical exclusion would not allow FWS to fully consider the beneficial impacts of declining to list a species under the Lacey Act.
    3. The proposed categorical exclusion is much broader than any of the other eight exclusions that FWS has approved under “permitting and regulatory functions”.
    4. The FWS’s “extraordinary circumstances” exception to a categorical exclusion is unhelpful because it does not apply to actions with high economic impacts.

    Thank you.
  • 07-26-2013, 05:23 PM
    SapphireTigress1
    So far, I've shared this information on:

    *facebook
    *my facebook business page
    *axolotl forum
    *blue tongued skink forum
    *Carnivorous plant forum (off topic of course)
    *Hedgehog forum
    *Deviant Art
    *Youtube (a vastly truncated version X_X)
    *A random Doberman forum I'm on.

    Dont just share with your reptile peeps! Share this EVERYWHERE you possibly can!!!!!!
  • 07-26-2013, 06:32 PM
    DestinyLynette
    Done, and infuriated. Sharing on Facebook as well. I can't believe they're trying to slip this in and only giving us to the end of the month.
  • 07-26-2013, 07:51 PM
    Marrissa
    Shared on the horse sim forum I'm a part of. There's several snake lovers there, but all are animals lovers so should have some more people to rally.
  • 07-27-2013, 02:14 AM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    the more the merrier.
  • 07-27-2013, 02:32 AM
    kevinb
    Emails sent! I hate what the world is becoming.
  • 07-27-2013, 03:17 AM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    Sorry kiddos; I only got on Facebook so far. <- I was doo-doo talking about HSUS, ASPCA, and PETA too.:gj:
    Anyone post on Arachnoboards yet?

    I have a bad feeling we won't be walking out of this without taking a hit. The last time something big and concerning happened, we lost the rock pythons and yellow anacondas. We'll probably lose our amphibians, retics, and green anacondas too. I'm not sure about the future of Boa constrictors, however, if the NEPA exceptions pass (God help us all) we'll probably lose everything.
    Nonetheless, I shall hold faith in our leaders, as well as this and all great communities, and my own abilities. And fight, we shall!
  • 07-27-2013, 03:33 AM
    Centexsnakes
    Wow!! I understand unreasonable but this is nuts, I see this daily with my 2nd amendment rights, I guess it will never be over till we just bend over and take it, emails have been sent and all my friends rallied! Hope it ends up helping but with what I have seen in our government best wishes to all! I'd say more but then I wouldn't be around to post
  • 07-27-2013, 11:55 AM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    bump bump.
  • 07-27-2013, 07:51 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    bump again because i'm a crazy political nut and think this should be on the front page. are there rules against that? lol

    side note: in the process of typing out a personalized letter regarding both pieces of legislation. mailing it in monday.
  • 07-28-2013, 12:03 AM
    Raptor
    I sent in all the letters, posted it on facebook, and on a game I'm on. So far, the response on the game is "They're not going to ban pets".
  • 07-28-2013, 08:15 AM
    FireStorm
    I've managed to convince a few people who really dislike snakes to comment, simply because they see the problem with a government agency asking for the ability to do something without restriction or oversight.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
  • 07-28-2013, 10:44 AM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
    I sent in all the letters, posted it on facebook, and on a game I'm on. So far, the response on the game is "They're not going to ban pets".

    i've been getting the same thing, especially when i try n tell people they're wanting to ban all amphibians, so no more pet frogs. :/
  • 07-28-2013, 10:56 AM
    MarkS
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek View Post
    i've been getting the same thing, especially when i try n tell people they're wanting to ban all amphibians, so no more pet frogs. :/

    Actually amphibians are far more likely to make their ban list than a lot of animals in an attempt to halt chytridiomycosis. Not that doing so would actually help, but they'll use it as an excuse.
  • 07-28-2013, 01:07 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Actually amphibians are far more likely to make their ban list than a lot of animals in an attempt to halt chytridiomycosis. Not that doing so would actually help, but they'll use it as an excuse.

    just like reptiles are creating a salmonella epidemic? should we ban eggs in the grocery stores too? people get salmonella from them much more than our scaly friends.
  • 07-28-2013, 01:35 PM
    DestinyLynette
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek View Post
    just like reptiles are creating a salmonella epidemic? should we ban eggs in the grocery stores too? people get salmonella from them much more than our scaly friends.

    Or raw chicken. Let's ban that in case you cross contaminate or don't wash your hands...
    I feel like we have less of a government and more of authoritarian baby-sitters.
  • 07-28-2013, 01:41 PM
    alykoz
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    the gov doesn't want the best for us. they let Obama stand up there and lie to millions of people while bombing innocent children in other countries. 9/11 was our own gov, idk why people still care about a signature on a piece of paper. we are still going to find a way to have the animals we love
  • 07-28-2013, 01:48 PM
    alykoz
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FireStorm View Post
    I've managed to convince a few people who really dislike snakes to comment, simply because they see the problem with a government agency asking for the ability to do something without restriction or oversight.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

    Sadly enough, this is only one of many things our gov thinks they can do without restriction or oversight. GMOs, drones, project mockingbird, operation earnest voice, chemtrails, marshal law, etc. The sooner everyone realizes money isn't what makes the world go round, the better. Animals keep me closest to nature, I will never give mine up for a rich butthole who wants us more suppressed!
  • 07-28-2013, 02:50 PM
    Raptor
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek View Post
    i've been getting the same thing, especially when i try n tell people they're wanting to ban all amphibians, so no more pet frogs. :/

    I've had several that agree with the proposed rule change. One refused because it wasn't being covered by unbiased sources.
  • 07-28-2013, 03:14 PM
    DestinyLynette
    I typed out a personal letter. How many do I print out, who do I send it to? I know my congressman and state representative... any one else?
  • 07-28-2013, 03:19 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
    I sent in all the letters, posted it on facebook, and on a game I'm on. So far, the response on the game is "They're not going to ban pets".

    My mom told me the same thing and started lecturing me about. I cut the crap though and forced her comment anyway lololo

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alykoz View Post
    the gov doesn't want the best for us. they let Obama stand up there and lie to millions of people while bombing innocent children in other countries. 9/11 was our own gov, idk why people still care about a signature on a piece of paper. we are still going to find a way to have the animals we love

    9/11 was caused by terrorism; however, the same terrorist who did it were released from federal prison several years earlier. In essence, the government, courtesy of Pres. Bill Clinton, let it happen.
    As far as children go, some of the kids themselves are the terrorist and suicide bombers. Don't be fooled by age; war is war and is the only way to keep incidents like 9/11 and the United States-Libyan Embassy from happening again. It's a large-scale schoolyard playground out there; if we don't stand up for ourselves, we'll be pushed around, albeit in the form of terrorism or domination from other countries. Not everyone wants to make this world a better place, because a lot of people want it to become a worst place.
    /offtopic
  • 07-28-2013, 04:37 PM
    alykoz
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pythonminion View Post

    9/11 was caused by terrorism; however, the same terrorist who did it were released from federal prison several years earlier. In essence, the government, courtesy of Pres. Bill Clinton, let it happen.
    As far as children go, some of the kids themselves are the terrorist and suicide bombers. Don't be fooled by age; war is war and is the only way to keep incidents like 9/11 and the United States-Libyan Embassy from happening again. It's a large-scale schoolyard playground out there; if we don't stand up for ourselves, we'll be pushed around, albeit in the form of terrorism or domination from other countries. Not everyone wants to make this world a better place, because a lot of people want it to become a worst place.
    /offtopic

    OffTopic: 9/11 was our own government. why else would they lie about everything? you respond with words that were fed to you by, yes, your government. don't be fooled by those who are in power. not just children, but a number of innocent families have been droned in other countries by our gov for the "search of WMDs" when indeed they have found none. all life is valuable and we should be mature enough to know that standing up for ourselves doesn't mean going around and killing for profit in the name of peace. do some more research, before you are going to defend something you have seen on mainstream outlets. 9/11 happened so you would feel like there is a need for war. America is the terrorists. and being brainwashed by the people who are in power. there is a force working out there to make this an unpleasant place, while there are actually some people trying to make it better.
  • 07-28-2013, 05:02 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alykoz View Post
    OffTopic: 9/11 was our own government. why else would they lie about everything? you respond with words that were fed to you by, yes, your government. don't be fooled by those who are in power. not just children, but a number of innocent families have been droned in other countries by our gov for the "search of WMDs" when indeed they have found none. all life is valuable and we should be mature enough to know that standing up for ourselves doesn't mean going around and killing for profit in the name of peace. do some more research, before you are going to defend something you have seen on mainstream outlets. 9/11 happened so you would feel like there is a need for war. America is the terrorists. and being brainwashed by the people who are in power. there is a force working out there to make this an unpleasant place, while there are actually some people trying to make it better.

    while i do find a good conspiracy theory interesting and have my own thoughts on the matter, i was worried this kind of thing might get brought up in this thread. it's completely irrelevant here and i worry people will read these posts and chalk up pet banning and the proposed alterations to NEPA regarding the Lacey Act to "just another conspiracy theory," which it absolutely IS NOT. please take it elsewhere and let's focus on the matter at hand that demands immediate attention from the pet community.
  • 07-28-2013, 05:24 PM
    MarkS
    Re: Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek View Post
    just like reptiles are creating a salmonella epidemic? should we ban eggs in the grocery stores too? people get salmonella from them much more than our scaly friends.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DestinyLynette View Post
    Or raw chicken. Let's ban that in case you cross contaminate or don't wash your hands...
    I feel like we have less of a government and more of authoritarian baby-sitters.

    Well if the FWS had anything to do with agriculture you might have a point. But they don't.
  • 07-30-2013, 03:46 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    I don't know about you guys, but I'm a bit nervous about the results in the next two days. I won't be able to buy any new reptiles until we move into our new house (more than a year from now) and I'm just dying to get my hands on a boa constrictor.
  • 07-30-2013, 05:02 PM
    hunte567
    voiced
  • 07-30-2013, 05:42 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    i know USARK has said we only have until the end of the month to voice our opinions, but is that when we'll find out if it passes or not? or will we have to wait? anyone know?
  • 08-07-2013, 05:06 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    with the recent incident in canada, i believe this demands even more attention now. i'm currently in the process of writing a personalized email to my state representative. HSUS is going to jump on this tragedy in canada and demand the ban of more snakes. email your representative and stress to them that the SAME species of snake that was involved in this freak accident is ALREADY banned for interstate transport in the United States, and is thus somewhat irrelevant to the banning of other snake species. things aren't looking good for us.

    http://www.humanesociety.org/news/pr...de-080713.html
  • 08-07-2013, 05:23 PM
    Tribal
    Quote:

    These apex predators—a product of the exotic reptile trade—pose a danger to people, pets and wildlife. In the U.S., a dozen people have been killed by African rock pythons, Burmese pythons, reticulated pythons and boa constrictors since 1990.
    This is the best stats they could use to help their cause ? 12 deaths in 23 years means I must be sure to stay away from that apex predator. :rofl:
  • 08-07-2013, 07:42 PM
    TheSnakeGeek
    Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tribal View Post
    This is the best stats they could use to help their cause ? 12 deaths in 23 years means I must be sure to stay away from that apex predator. :rofl:

    approximately 1 person every two years according to that. how many people are killed by horses every two years? why aren't they banning those?? not saying they should, but it is the EPITOME of a double standard.
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