Banana/Coral Glow

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Originally Posted by Jonas@Balls2TheWall

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps84f2de9a.jpg

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like i said earlier, GORGEOUS animal. even people outside the hobby wouldn't deny that specimen is beautiful, but i haven't seen a single banana combo that i would honestly say looks BETTER than the single gene banana. while i do think some of the combos are cool, the only reason i would like a banana combo more than the single gene is more from an "inside the hobby" viewpoint with respect to its breeding potential. if you asked someone that had no inside knowledge of snake breeding, animal's worth, or the value of a "power house" animal from a breeding standpoint, i honestly believe if you set a single gene banana down next to most of the combos that have been produced, the outsider would be indifferent.

i'm not saying that for every single one of the banana combos, and i'm not trying to bash the banana in any way, just giving my thoughts on the project. i believe the banana pied will most likely be jaw-dropping. the only thing is, with this weird sex skewing the bananas' offspring are known to have, it's not going to be as easy to get both a male and female banana het pied.

everyone knows the champagne is almost a dead end to most combos, but i still own one and think they are beautiful in their own right. i think the banana is a beautiful animal too, but i paid 1/6th the price of bananas right now for my champ, and don't plan on considering a banana/coral glow until they're much cheaper. they just don't seem like they'd be that much fun to "play around" with in my breeding plans. it has nothing to do with their price. i think the GHI blends PHENOMENALLY with a lot of morphs and would jump on that project in a heartbeat if i had upwards of 10 grand laying around somewhere.

I wonder what an axanthic bananna would look like... I dont like them, I dont like light snakes, If they had somehow some darker colors mixed in they would be awesome. I think their too much of a hype and not worth the stupid ammounts of money being asked for. Even if the price dropped to 300, which in some years im sure it will, I still likely wouldnt buy one, unless someone figures out how to get some contrast into them.

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Originally Posted by towelie4365

I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake

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Was there any indication that lesser or spider or any number of other genes would produce all or mostly white snakes when mixed with Pied before they were produced? We should know in the near future. I'm sure many are working on it.

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Originally Posted by Jay Mechtly

Was there any indication that lesser or spider or any number of other genes would produce all or mostly white snakes when mixed with Pied before they were produced? We should know in the near future. I'm sure many are working on it.

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I think you missed my other post, but I think there were indications:

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Originally Posted by towelie4365

True. But the spider gene SEVERELY reduces pattern, and the lesser gene produces BEL's in its super form or mixed with mojave. Similarly, the mojave also reduces the pied's pattern. Super black pastels also have no pattern, and black pastel pieds typically are very high white. I'm not aware of any pied combo that is almost all white that doesn't show that capability in other ways. I hope I'm not wrong, but I'd say it will be patterned

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So when you guys are talking about how it doesn't blend well with other morphs are you referring to the color takes over all else or the pattern? I love the almost unnatural color they have and have gone through the WOPB banana pages and loved the way they came out.

banana spider
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-spider/
I like the subtle pinstripe and the bright golden color
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-pin/
pastel fades it out and gives it a neat look
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-pastel/
banana GHI is pretty awesome looking
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-ghi/
banana fire spider
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...a-fire-spider/

This remains one of my favorite banana combos, just love the dark purplish color brought out by the cinny gene, cross this with a black back......i just wanna see it haha

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...nnamon-banana/

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Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

I wonder what an axanthic bananna would look like... I dont like them, I dont like light snakes, If they had somehow some darker colors mixed in they would be awesome. I think their too much of a hype and not worth the stupid ammounts of money being asked for. Even if the price dropped to 300, which in some years im sure it will, I still likely wouldnt buy one, unless someone figures out how to get some contrast into them.

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Only time will tell for sure. ;)

Banana GHI just looks ridiculous (as does coral glow GHI). These colors are not what you can normally get in ball pythons.

About the speckling, the tiny black dots: I love them. And i would say, if you dont like them, maybe its not the right gene for you. We have albino, and the candy and toffee which are compatible with albino to make candino and toffino, and we have caramel, and lavender albino. Not to forget ultramel. None have the tiny black dots.

Generally, very few light-colored snakes can have these black dots. Maybe you can get them sometimes by using genes that really obliterate the pattern, like atomic or champagne. But an undisturbed pattern in the background with these tiny dots on top.... I think its rare. Like it or not, it sets Banana/CG apart from all the other stuff i mentioned above.

That being said, one question:

If more and more people hit their supers, will the whole "male maker/ female maker"- thing still matter? As i understand it (and i am not sure), the best way to make a super is to breed a male banana that is a male maker to a female banana, this will give you good chances for a male super banana. Or you breed a male banana that is a FEMALE maker to a female banana, this will give you got chances for a female super banana.

But when considering a male or female super banana, will it still matter if it has male makers or female makers in its ancestry? I dont know, so im asking, but i think it wouldnt matter anymore. All offspring of the super banana, male or female, will have one copy of the gene, regardless of gender. Thats just what supers do. Also, lets say you have a male super banana and breed it to some females and get banana hatchlings, can you still label them "male-maker" or "female-maker", does it still make sense?

If you breed a male-maker banana to a female and hit a male super, and then breed the super to different females, wouldnt the offspring of that second generation be something like "100% het male maker" at best? How does it translate into offspring when the super got one copy each from each parents, and passes off one of these at random to its offspring?

Best Regards

You pose an interesting question. I suppose time will tell.

Banana Spotnose is nice.
People need to realize that just because "I am putting my XX Banana with these females does not mean that breeding will occur. Next, unless your male is a super, your clutches are not all banana morphs. My banana morph male will be with the same amount as my GHI male will be. I guess GHI will be $1200 next years also. LOL.
I am very excited for the Banana to drop in price for people. They are outstanding. Whatever their price ends up at, they will sell, sell, sell.
The banana is a snake that non ball python or non reptile people have to agree is beautiful. To me, this means they will always sell.

Banana Pinstripe
Banana Cinnamon
Banana Black Pastel
Super Banana
These are all pretty snakes.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Can you hear it?

All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding. Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.

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Or by the end of this year!

I really like the banana genetic stripe!

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=2014795,2014795

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Can you hear it?

All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding. Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.

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Saw one today for $1350, try $1000 or less next year.

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Originally Posted by wendhend

I really like the banana genetic stripe!

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=2014795,2014795

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extremely stunning

Interesting to see this thread brought up again. Personally I plan on getting my banana/coral glow when they hit $500.00, when that happens is anybodies guess but I'm hoping that's the point when all the drama starts to die down.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Saw one today for $1350, try $1000 or less next year.

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That is a great price. As with everything though.... wait till next year and you miss out on a year of production- maybe 2 years if you don't get a good eater/breeder.

At even $500 each next year and average clutch odds I will still quadruple my investment with ease. Thats just the base morph of course. I obviously paired with something other than Normals.

Already have locks with Normal, Pinstripe, Spider, Enchi, and Clown and more to come. They are buried in this post somewhere....

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...reeding-thread

Does anyone know what Gen3 males throw sex/morph wise yet?

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Originally Posted by dr del

Does anyone know what Gen3 males throw sex/morph wise yet?

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I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking and I will have some data come spring/summer.

I'm sure bigger breeders have more data already.

This is a good place for me to bring this up and I could probably get an answer more easily elsewhere but...

This business about "Male Makers"... I see the prices going down like crazy on these guys and people are always quoting "male maker" but some are not. If I understand correctly the issue is that they are not producing females? I'm surprised people are diving into the project with that knowledge. Yeah, the offspring look cool... but how much room do people have for males and all of the male combos that come out of the pairings. Think about how low the single gene males will be after a season when everyone holds back a multi-gene and decides to sell their single gene males. Too volatile for me.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

This is a good place for me to bring this up and I could probably get an answer more easily elsewhere but...

This business about "Male Makers"... I see the prices going down like crazy on these guys and people are always quoting "male maker" but some are not. If I understand correctly the issue is that they are not producing females? I'm surprised people are diving into the project with that knowledge. Yeah, the offspring look cool... but how much room do people have for males and all of the male combos that come out of the pairings. Think about how low the single gene males will be after a season when everyone holds back a multi-gene and decides to sell their single gene males. Too volatile for me.

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I think that the thought behind 'male-makers' is the market for combo morphs. EX: breed your male maker to an adult female pied, hold back all the male babies which will be bananas, power feed the heck out of them and you'll be able to get at least one of them up to breeding size quickly so you can breed it back to it's mother the following season and produce banana pieds in only a year. Personally I think it's a benefit that's a bit overblown.

i think the male maker issue definitively contributes to the price falling so quickly.

with the right females already present, it can be used to effectively cut down the generation time, and you get into multi-gene combos much faster. the drawbacks are that it takes a lot of work to get female bananas and then super bananas. and of course it causes market prices to drop faster, especially for single-gene male hatchlings.

also, just to avoid confusion.... the clutches will still be around 50% males and 50% females. its just that most males are bananas, and most females are not, and the other genes are randomly distributed.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking and I will have some data come spring/summer.

I'm sure bigger breeders have more data already.

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Just curious about your statement...and really curious to know more about it and about what you produce. From what was labeled as being the "gen2" male, this would be one of the odd males produced by a female maker and supposedly when bred, broke away from the male/female maker phenomenon?

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking .

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So your males are gay???

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Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

Just curious about your statement...and really curious to know more about it and about what you produce. From what was labeled as being the "gen2" male, this would be one of the odd males produced by a female maker and supposedly when bred, broke away from the male/female maker phenomenon?

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Both my males were produced from 1st generation male makers from Mike Wilbanks. That would make them 2nd generation male makers. I have no doubt my production ratios will be very similar to Mike's, and the males produced from them will be labeled 3rd gen male maker males. I almost bought a female from him at the same time, but decided with as many pairings as I will have this year I would shoot for that 10% odds of making my own female and keep her. I was briefly big on the Super Banana project, but not really so much now. I just want to make some cool Banana combos with them.

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

So your males are gay???

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Only if all my proven breeder females have swapped sex somehow...lol ;)

This girl couldn't even hide it in the water bowl!!
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps71681e51.jpg

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt. Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.

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you called it! males are under $800 six months later.

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Originally Posted by DesignerBP

you called it! males are under $800 six months later.

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$800??? Where?? I have not seen one that is under 1k...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by RuGGeR

$800??? Where?? I have not seen one that is under 1k...

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on this forum i have often seen prices quoted for these, around 1250 or 1000 or 900. also prices for morphs generally go down, and banana/CG will fall in price more rapidly than other morphs do. 800 sounds possible and plausible right now, wait a few months and it will be the norm.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt. Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.

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Haha I know this is an old thread but I just picked up a coral glow male for $675 at an expo hahahaha. I feel bad for the poor idiots that bought them two years ago

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Originally Posted by Austinwwilson16

Haha I know this is an old thread but I just picked up a coral glow male for $675 at an expo hahahaha. I feel bad for the poor idiots that bought them two years ago

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you may have just picked one up for 675 but those "poor idiots" that bought them at 5-10-15k two years ago have been making a profit on them for over a year now before the market dropped on them. so think of it this way you got yours for 675 best case scenario its a male and breeds next season what if by that time the price is down to 450 its going to take you years to come anywhere close to what those "poor idiots" made on there investment two years ago just my 0.2 cents

LOL and now you can get them for under 700 from an auction with most breeders selling at 750...

yeah but its still a good project to get into and still has high popularity from what I've seen

I believe it and I would love to actually. I understand how you can still profit from it even when bought at the higher prices but I just think that it shouldn't have come down that fast. It's almost comical that they dropped so much in only a couple years. If I ever get into investment quality snakes I now have at least an idea of the volatility to expect. I wasn't around to see the drops in any of the other high dollar morphs so this is the only one I have seen first hand.

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Originally Posted by alan12013

I believe it and I would love to actually. I understand how you can still profit from it even when bought at the higher prices but I just think that it shouldn't have come down that fast. It's almost comical that they dropped so much in only a couple years. If I ever get into investment quality snakes I now have at least an idea of the volatility to expect. I wasn't around to see the drops in any of the other high dollar morphs so this is the only one I have seen first hand.

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Its not recessive, ALL Co-Dom/Dom genes drop fast

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Originally Posted by alan12013

LOL and now you can get them for under 700 from an auction with most breeders selling at 750...

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Actually you can get them for under 500. All listed prices are super inflated. Ball Pythons as a whole are crashing, and doing it fast. There is way too much greed and pore business practices, as a whole, in this hobby. People keep slashing prices 50%-75% each year for no reason other than to make a quick buck. You can now go pick up a ghi and a cg for under 900, combined.
Honestly a male cg isnt worth much more than 200 imo.

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Its not recessive, ALL Co-Dom/Dom genes drop fast

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Yep. A year ago I bought a leopard female for 750 shipped, and that was a good deal for the time. This year 2014 female leopards are 300-400 and I can get a combo leopard female for that 750 I spent. Anything easy to breed for is going to drop fast. I don't regret buying her one bit. By fall next year she'll be ready to breed and potentially make me three and four gene combo leopards.

Exactly. Way too much business practices. Once people threw the word "investment" in front of ball python it ruined it for the time being... If you wanted you could pick up a mega combo male from an auction and breed the crud out of it then sell it and then auction off all the offspring. The volatility is completely controllable from the top too in my opinion. The auctions are probably the thing that upsets me the most, though I have built some of my collection using them. I've also shopped at walmart... It's way too easy to "invest" in the Ball Python market. It makes me sick. Some breeders are rewarded by this auctioning business with their practices in place. They don't care if they sell a rare snake or a common one so long as it turns a quick buck and clears out rack space for the next in line. I'm assuming that's whats going on anyway. I've been working on how to get around all this mumbo jumbo and still be able to profit from working with reptiles the way I want but it sucks knowing all the stuff that other people are doing. I do believe that I have a business plan (if I dare call it that) that I can be proud of. I can see where this is going and eventually there will be market corrections but in the mean time if I can get a nice snake that will help in my plans for 50 bucks then I'm going to do it. I think it's funny when I watch a commercial, err I mean youtube video, of some one talking about how the market works and this tiered system.

It all comes down to supply and demand

HAHA ya and you believe in efficient market theory too...

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Honestly a male cg isnt worth much more than 200 imo.

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I have sold about 8-10 bananas in the past three weeks at $650-750 each so i don't know where this is coming from! Obviously they are worth that if they are selling!

Bananas were around 650 to 750 at the expo I went to beginning of the month. The biggest surprise to me was the pied price..300 for a male or 400 for a male pied with a het pied female.