What Do You Think of This Super Pastel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

I'm thinking I should have set up a poll. Of course, I know it would be unanimous at this point; it would just save me the trouble of counting exactly how many people have said she is just a regular pastel and not a super. :)

---

Lol


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

She still looks gorgeous. If that's what a regular pastel looks like, I guess I have found what I want: A regular pastel, not a super. :D How old is yours?

---

Thanks! This is a 2012 girl that definitely isn't your average pastel. Most of the pastels I see for sale are pretty much completely browned out, even as hatchlings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by missriss2012

Thanks! This is a 2012 girl that definitely isn't your average pastel. Most of the pastels I see for sale are pretty much completely browned out, even as hatchlings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I wonder if yours has a twin sister (or brother) who is looking to be adopted. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by missriss2012

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/07/dy9evetu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/07/2a4esygu.jpg

---

Damn that is a smoking super pastel! I love the black back, and how it's evenly blushed... Gorgeous!

Looks like a super to me, a fairly average one but still a super.

I'm wondering just how many of the people posting replies here have actually worked with the pastel gene. Are you all just going on pictures you've seen? WOBP? Or your own pastel?

I'm asking because the snake in question could very well be a super by that breeders standards..

To the member saying most single gene pastels they see are much browner than that, you're seeing some pretty crappy pastels then.. It wasn't always like that you know.. Just a few years ago there were tons of great pastels. Careless breeding of sub-par examples, to dark normals, is the cause of that.

If this breeders other pastels from the same blood line are browned out, especially at such a young age, then this snake is probably a super. If he has low quality breeders, he will produce low quality babies.. When a great looking pastel hatches for him, and has all that blushing and yellow, it's probably a super. Do you understand what I'm talking about? If the parents are sub-par, that could be a sub-par super. If it is, I wouldn't buy it for breeding purposes. It would muck up everything it produces.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Where are you finding high quality firefly females for 150? I need to find that connection and buy them all...

---

Son-of-a.....
I just can't get anything written right!!!!!!!!!! All my errors are making me look clueless....

You are right, and I was thinking that a firefly should be about 500 to a grand...... but for WHATEVER reason, I wrote 150, twice.
I'm having bad luck with numbers lately.... sorry everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I'm wondering just how many of the people posting replies here have actually worked with the pastel gene. Are you all just going on pictures you've seen? WOBP? Or your own pastel?

I'm asking because the snake in question could very well be a super by that breeders standards..

To the member saying most single gene pastels they see are much browner than that, you're seeing some pretty crappy pastels then.. It wasn't always like that you know.. Just a few years ago there were tons of great pastels. Careless breeding of sub-par examples, to dark normals, is the cause of that.

If this breeders other pastels from the same blood line are browned out, especially at such a young age, then this snake is probably a super. If he has low quality breeders, he will produce low quality babies.. When a great looking pastel hatches for him, and has all that blushing and yellow, it's probably a super. Do you understand what I'm talking about? If the parents are sub-par, that could be a sub-par super. If it is, I wouldn't buy it for breeding purposes. It would muck up everything it produces.

---

I'm confused. Are you saying that even though its most likely a single gene pastel, the breeder can still call it a super because he thinks it "looks" nicer then his other single gene pastels? :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mike689

I'm confused. Are you saying that even though its most likely a single gene pastel, the breeder can still call it a super because he thinks it "looks" nicer then his other single gene pastels? :confusd:

---

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

---

Understood. But the super pastel should still have a little blushing even if it is super low quality, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

---

Assuming the parents of the snake in question were both pastels, is there anyway of knowing for certain whether we are looking at a super or just a regular pastel short of breeding the snake? (I'm guessing the answer is "no," but I want to be sure.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mike689

Understood. But the super pastel should still have a little blushing even if it is super low quality, no?

---

It does have blushing. It's not a great pic but the back of the head is blushed out. It's just not white like many other supers. I think the possibility is there but there is no way to know for sure without breeding it. I'm not saying I think it is a super, I'm just saying there is a possibility. I'd want to see both parents, and the entire clutch post shed. Then I would make a more educated guess on its genetics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

---

This is exactly what I meant...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

Assuming the parents of the snake in question were both pastels, is there anyway of knowing for certain whether we are looking at a super or just a regular pastel short of breeding the snake? (I'm guessing the answer is "no," but I want to be sure.)

---

All 'super' means is that it's a homozygous pastel. There is no implied guarantee of the quality. Pastels are probably one of the most mass produced morphs in existence. There was a time not so long ago where pastels were bred to every normal female a breeder could lay their hands on regardless of looks because every one of them was worth some big money. There are a LOT of pastels and super pastels out there that do NOT look nice and bright and blindingly yellow like the pictures you will see people posting on line. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people who are claiming that it's not a super have not produced very many pastels or super pastels themselves. Personally I think if the breeder told you it's a super pastel, I see no reason to disbelieve him/her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

All 'super' means is that it's a homozygous pastel. There is no implied guarantee of the quality. Pastels are probably one of the most mass produced morphs in existence. There was a time not so long ago where pastels were bred to every normal female a breeder could lay their hands on regardless of looks because every one of them was worth some big money. There are a LOT of pastels and super pastels out there that do NOT look nice and bright and blindingly yellow like the pictures you will see people posting on line. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people who are claiming that it's not a super have not produced very many pastels or super pastels themselves. Personally I think if the breeder told you it's a super pastel, I see no reason to disbelieve him/her.

---

It's sounding to me that, absent actually breeding the snake (or running a DNA test :)), determining whether it is a regular pastel or a super is somewhat subjective, which is a bit discomforting given the significant price difference between a regular pastel and a super.

Well, I went back to the store today to have another look. Because this time I knew what I was looking for, I paid particular attention to the blushing. This time, I clearly saw blushing on the head and body (at least that is what I think I saw). Here are some photos I took this evening. Hopefully, they give you all a better idea of what I was looking at. Oh, I specifically asked about the parents: One is a pastel and the other is a calico pastel.

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps02323f04.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps41f74a5f.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82c588db.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psfa0c136b.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2fe81f68.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8eace60c.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps490c6078.jpg

These aren't the best photos, but I think they are a better representation than the one I originally posted. With these new photos and the information about the pairing that produced this baby (she weighed 228 grams about two weeks ago), do any of you now think she might be a super pastel (I'm not trying to be argumentative; I truly want to know whether these photos change anyone's opinion)?

Yes, I still believe that is a super pastel.

I wish I had a good pic of Benny, my pastel.... because the snake you're looking on getting could be an identical twin to him.
He's EXACTLY the same. I'll dig around for a picture that shows him well.

Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pics that showcase his brilliant colors..... I do however have this pic, which I took 3 months ago the day I got him.
It's a very low-quality pic, and his colors look drab.... but you can see they look very similar.
I will get a more recent picture of him, because in his current color phase, he looks just like that girl you're thinking about getting.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../2/5/benny.jpg[/URL]

Idk if he's high quality, but his colors get more briliant every week.

To the OP.......I have read through this thread and having been a newbie myself just a couple years ago I know it can be overwhelming asking for an opinion and recieving so many different responses. Unfortunately I am going to toss out one more opinion for you (my own ;))

The consensus in the group is that generally regular pastels sell for $150-200 and supers sell for $450-550. This is either a regular pastel, a very nice high quality regular pastel, which should be in the higher price range upwards of $200......OR......it is a very low quality super pastel, which should be in the lower price range of $450.

If you are NOT wanting to breed, and you just want a nice pretty pet, I would get yourself a nice pastel. I highly doubt the sellers, who believe this is a super, are going to cut the price in half for you (but there's no harm in trying I guess), so if I were you I would go find yourself a nice pastel for $200.

If you PLAN on breeding down the road, and you definately want a SUPER pastel, this is NOT an animal you want to breed, there is too much hesitation amongst your fellow breeders here trying to distinguish whether or not this is a super. If you are going to spend the money, go find a reputable breeder who has a NICE high quality animal that there is no doubt in YOUR mind that it is a SUPER pastel, and buy it.

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example. Both of those are not what you want for breeding purposes. But again, if you just want a nice pretty pet, then at least go find a fairly priced snake.....and perhaps spend the money you save on a nice enclosure for it (or bank it away for another snake down the road because if you have not yet read the fine print, this hobby IS addicting and you WILL get another...there is a guarantee on that....;))


Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the herp addiction!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikigator

To the OP.......I have read through this thread and having been a newbie myself just a couple years ago I know it can be overwhelming asking for an opinion and recieving so many different responses. Unfortunately I am going to toss out one more opinion for you (my own ;))

The consensus in the group is that generally regular pastels sell for $150-200 and supers sell for $450-550. This is either a regular pastel, a very nice high quality regular pastel, which should be in the higher price range upwards of $200......OR......it is a very low quality super pastel, which should be in the lower price range of $450.

If you are NOT wanting to breed, and you just want a nice pretty pet, I would get yourself a nice pastel. I highly doubt the sellers, who believe this is a super, are going to cut the price in half for you (but there's no harm in trying I guess), so if I were you I would go find yourself a nice pastel for $200.

If you PLAN on breeding down the road, and you definately want a SUPER pastel, this is NOT an animal you want to breed, there is too much hesitation amongst your fellow breeders here trying to distinguish whether or not this is a super. If you are going to spend the money, go find a reputable breeder who has a NICE high quality animal that there is no doubt in YOUR mind that it is a SUPER pastel, and buy it.

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example. Both of those are not what you want for breeding purposes. But again, if you just want a nice pretty pet, then at least go find a fairly priced snake.....and perhaps spend the money you save on a nice enclosure for it (or bank it away for another snake down the road because if you have not yet read the fine print, this hobby IS addicting and you WILL get another...there is a guarantee on that....;))


Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the herp addiction!

---

I think that about sums it up.

With the newer pictures, I can see the blushing. It's more than you would find on a normal pastel, but it's no where near what you would find on a great super pastel. I'm changing my opinion to a very low quality super pastel. But like tikigator says, if you plan to breed it, don't! You'll make low quality pastels and flood the market with low quality animals instead of breeding quality to quality. If the snake would just be a pet and you'll willing to pay the money for it, get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikigator

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example.

---

x1000!

To the OP, I would absolutely walk away from this deal. There are simply way too many quality, reputable breeders out there selling excellent examples of countless morphs for you to drop $500 on this snake. Why would you run the risk? No matter what that snake is (and having any doubt is always a bad thing), it's overpriced.

Have you not checked out the fuanaclassifieds? Or kignsnake marketplace? Spend some time looking through the ads; if you see a snake that piques your interest, cross-reference the buyer's name in the fauna BOI. Or ask around here.

I did months of research before buying my bp, and was able to put together a list of nearly 30 reputable breeders from across the country who I had full confidence in. I knew they had quality snakes and fair pricing. If you'd like, send me a PM and I can forward you the list I put together. When spending hard-earned money, there's simply no reason to have to resort to a "is this snake really a _______ morph?" thread to determine what you're looking at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikigator

To the OP.......I have read through this thread and having been a newbie myself just a couple years ago I know it can be overwhelming asking for an opinion and recieving so many different responses. Unfortunately I am going to toss out one more opinion for you (my own ;))

The consensus in the group is that generally regular pastels sell for $150-200 and supers sell for $450-550. This is either a regular pastel, a very nice high quality regular pastel, which should be in the higher price range upwards of $200......OR......it is a very low quality super pastel, which should be in the lower price range of $450.

If you are NOT wanting to breed, and you just want a nice pretty pet, I would get yourself a nice pastel. I highly doubt the sellers, who believe this is a super, are going to cut the price in half for you (but there's no harm in trying I guess), so if I were you I would go find yourself a nice pastel for $200.

If you PLAN on breeding down the road, and you definately want a SUPER pastel, this is NOT an animal you want to breed, there is too much hesitation amongst your fellow breeders here trying to distinguish whether or not this is a super. If you are going to spend the money, go find a reputable breeder who has a NICE high quality animal that there is no doubt in YOUR mind that it is a SUPER pastel, and buy it.

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example. Both of those are not what you want for breeding purposes. But again, if you just want a nice pretty pet, then at least go find a fairly priced snake.....and perhaps spend the money you save on a nice enclosure for it (or bank it away for another snake down the road because if you have not yet read the fine print, this hobby IS addicting and you WILL get another...there is a guarantee on that....;))


Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the herp addiction!

---

Thanks for putting everything in perspective. Your comment about me getting another one is somewhat ironic given my personal transformation in the past 9 months or so. Nine months ago, I was afraid of all snakes and had no desire to have one in my house, let alone hold one. However, as a result of my eldest son's Boy Scout reptile project, we ended up with our first ball python in the house. I quickly became fascinated with it, which resulted in my younger son getting his own. Soon, I became a "jealous" dad (for lack of better word) and wanted my own. Every week I would go to the pet store to buy rats for my sons' BPs, I became even more fascinated by the myriad of colors and patterns and just spent time admiring the BPs the store had to offer. When I expressed to my wife that I had a desire to buy my own BP, she was less than thrilled about bringing a third snake into the house (not because she is afraid of them but for other reasons). At this point, I wouldn't dare think about even bringing a fourth one into the house (as much as I can feel the BP addiction growing in my bones :)). So, this one will be it for me--at least for the foreseeable future.

As to this particular specimen, when I went back to the store yesterday and saw her again, I realized that the one photo I posted really didn't do her justice. I think camera phone and lighting didn't do a good job of showing the blushing (which I did not know to look for prior to starting this thread Sunday evening). Thus, I was just curious to see if the additional photos made anyone change their mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rossi46

x1000!

To the OP, I would absolutely walk away from this deal. There are simply way too many quality, reputable breeders out there selling excellent examples of countless morphs for you to drop $500 on this snake. Why would you run the risk? No matter what that snake is (and having any doubt is always a bad thing), it's overpriced.

Have you not checked out the fuanaclassifieds? Or kignsnake marketplace? Spend some time looking through the ads; if you see a snake that piques your interest, cross-reference the buyer's name in the fauna BOI. Or ask around here.

I did months of research before buying my bp, and was able to put together a list of nearly 30 reputable breeders from across the country who I had full confidence in. I knew they had quality snakes and fair pricing. If you'd like, send me a PM and I can forward you the list I put together. When spending hard-earned money, there's simply no reason to have to resort to a "is this snake really a _______ morph?" thread to determine what you're looking at.

---

A few folks have now suggested checking faunaclassifieds and kingsnake marketplace, which I have done. Maybe its irrational of me, but I feel more comfortable buying a snake that I've seen in person. I've also periodically checked Craigslist but haven't found anything yet. That having been said, I know I'm also not patient enough to wait for something to hit Craigslist. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

A few folks have now suggested checking faunaclassifieds and kingsnake marketplace, which I have done. Maybe its irrational of me, but I feel more comfortable buying a snake that I've seen in person. I've also periodically checked Craigslist but haven't found anything yet. That having been said, I know I'm also not patient enough to wait for something to hit Craigslist. :)

---

Another option is going to a reptile expo. There you'll be able to look at the snakes, hold them, etc. You can also compare a ton of snakes! I'm going to the NARBC in August I'm hoping to bring home a snake or two for my collection.

He doesn't have an expo near him till November.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

A few folks have now suggested checking faunaclassifieds and kingsnake marketplace, which I have done. Maybe its irrational of me, but I feel more comfortable buying a snake that I've seen in person.

---

That's not at all irrational. I purchase plenty of things online - clothes, toys, electronics, food, firearms - but I'm also still new enough to snakes that I prefer to put eyes and hands on the animal if possible before pulling out my wallet. What I did was look through FaunaClassifies and KingSnake to find reputable breeders within a 3-4 hour drive of me. I came up with about a dozen, so I just keep an eye on what they have for sale, and I travel to them if they have an animal I want.

If you like the snake, then buy it. Regardless of what people are saying the colors are not bad. I'd estimate that she's somewhere at 600+ grams and is still fairly bright, taking into account her sex, age, size, color, temperament, willingness to feed. She's not a bad snake at all. Offer the owner $400.00 and see what they say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobbafett

He doesn't have an expo near him till November.

---

I know. I'm just offering that up for potential purchases. We all know they will happen eventually. If he plans it right...he can pick up one or two when the expo rolls around.

If I was interested in a super pastel, I'd jump on this one; especially at $350 and from a trustworthy breeder:

http://jkobylkareptiles.com/store_fr...7_M-SUPPAST_01

http://jkobylkareptiles.com/images/a...SupPast_01.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

If you like the snake, then buy it. Regardless of what people are saying the colors are not bad. I'd estimate that she's somewhere at 600+ grams and is still fairly bright, taking into account her sex, age, size, color, temperament, willingness to feed. She's not a bad snake at all. Offer the owner $400.00 and see what they say.

---

That's a good point as well. I understand you feel more comfortable buying something you can see and hold. Especially if this is your first snake you want to feel comfortable with it. The snake looks nice, as in docile. That's important if you plan on playing it, taking it out often, handling it, letting it chill while you watch TV etc.

Here's one thing you can do, go in and say listen, I really like your snake, but I found another online from a very reptutable breeder (tell them, everyone who knows a hint about ball morphs should know Justin Kobylka) for $350. I dunno if that's shipped but shipping would run you around $50 so you'd be spending $400 anyway. So tell them, I really like yours, I can offer you $400. See what they say. They might say wow he found one for $150 less....maybe we should take his offer. If they don't, then you can see how you feel about it.

Whatever you decide, you will end up with a really nice snake. Hats off to you for doing a little research and not buying the first thing you saw without asking for some opinions, when in doubt, ask!....:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

If you like the snake, then buy it. Regardless of what people are saying the colors are not bad. I'd estimate that she's somewhere at 600+ grams and is still fairly bright, taking into account her sex, age, size, color, temperament, willingness to feed. She's not a bad snake at all. Offer the owner $400.00 and see what they say.

---

According to her feed chart, she weighed 228 grams on 4/25/13 and last shed on 3/21/13. She also is a very good feeder and has consistently eaten about once a week. She's currently on weaned rats and will eat live or pre-killed.

First, I want to thank all of you who have responded to my initial (and subsequent questions) and especially those of you who have put up with my PMs. I very much appreciate your patience and input.

As the radio commentator Paul Harvey would say, "And now, the rest of the story . . . ."

I ended up buy the snake in question for $250. It's somewhat of a long story how we got to that price, and I won't bore you all with it. I will say that although I ended up paying a bit more than I had budgeted for a BP, I am very happy with my purchase and feel pretty comfortable that, at the end of the day, the price I paid was fair and reasonable for this particular snake. In the long run, I guess it doesn't matter whether she is or is not a super. What matters most is that she is my girl now. :D

So now, the next question I face is where I'm going to house her. I have two 40 gallon Critter Cages that aren't being used since I moved my kids' BPs into a T8. I realize that the 40 gallon is pretty large for such a small snake, but between the T8 and my new girl, I've dropped a lot of dough on snakes in the past month. Consequently, I'm looking at an economical option even if it is only for the short term. Right now, I've got her in a 34 quart Hefty tub on my desk in my office. However, because this particular snake managed to escape her tub in the store, my wife would much prefer that she be in a locked cage of some type (even though the escape occurred as a result of an employee not pushing the tub all the way into the rack rather than some Houdini-type trick). I was actually hoping to squeeze the tub between the top of the T8 and the cabinets that are about 5 1/2" above the T8 (the T8 sits on a hallway counter and some cabinets are above the counter), but I'm not sure how secure that will be or whether a 5 1/2" tub is high enough for a full grown BP (I would also need to slip some heat tape or a heat mat underneath the tub).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

I ended up buy the snake in question for $250. It's somewhat of a long story how we got to that price, and I won't bore you all with it.

---

You don't want to bore us but you're fine with leaving us hanging? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear how you managed to talk the seller down $300!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BranceM

You don't want to bore us but you're fine with leaving us hanging? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear how you managed to talk the seller down $300!

---

PLEASE:mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mike689

PLEASE:mad:

---

I'm sorry I wasn't able to reply yesterday. I was tied up at work all day and exhausted by the time I got home (though not too exhausted to take out my new girl and hold her for a little bit :)). In any event, here's the scoop (warning--it is a long story):

As I mentioned in an earlier post, as of nine months ago, I was scared of snakes. However, my oldest son needed to care for a reptile for 30 days for a Boy Scout project. He had his heart set on a ball python. Although my wife and I were very resistent to him bringing any type of snake in the house (I was far more resisten than my wife), we ultimately caved in (figuring he was more likely to care for animal he really wanted than one he didn't like). After stopping at a couple of Petcos and Petsmarts, we went to a small, local exotic pet store. We found out about the pet store through the father of one of the Scouts. The day we ended up at the exotic pet store, this dad just happened to be here. I don't know whether he has an ownership interest in the store or just knows the owner very well, but he helped pick out a normal ball python for my son. Although my wife and I (and our son) would have preferred to start out with a baby ball, they did not have any that day. They showed us what I believe was a two year-old male normal. Of course, my son (who has instant gratification issues :)) wanted that particular normal (even though we had seen some babies at Petco and Petsmart) so we bought it for him.

Almost every week thereafter, I returned to the exotic pet store to buy a rat for my oldest son's BP. My youngest son, who happens to love all animals, was mildly jealous of his older brother so when the store advertised that it was raffling off a BP, I bought a ticket for my youngest son--every week for about four to five weeks (the tickets were only $1 each). As luck would have it, we won the raffle and ended up with BP #2 (another adult normal) after only about two months of buying the first BP.

I continued to return to the exotic pet store almost weekly to buy rats for the two BPs. It is a small mom-and-pop shop, with a handful of employees. Because I was going there almost every week, I ended up getting to know them all and, as I became more and more fascinated with my sons' BPs, I would ask them what they had in stock during my weekly trips to the store (I was fascinated to see the different types of BPs). When my oldest son's BP went on a hunger strike during breeding season, I would bring him into the store every few weeks, and the folks their checked him out to make sure he was okay and sometimes to see whether he would take a live rat or mouse (he didn't). When he had a bad shed, they also helped me with a piece of shed stuck to his eyecap.

Periodically, a couple of the guys at the store would tease/encourage me about getting my own BP. About three weeks ago, I went to the store to pick up rats, and one of the employees brought out the BP that I ultimately bought, as well as calico pastel, which I later learned is a sibling of the one that I purchased (the one I purchased came from a pastel bred with a calico pastel). Here's a photo of the sibling:

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psd0de1f47.jpg

I think he told me the calico pastel was originally priced at $1,200 but was now $900 or $800 (I can't recall which), and he told me that the super pastel (the one I ultimately bought) was $550. At the time, I figured there was no way my wife would let me bring another snake into the house, and I definitely didn't want to spend that much on a snake after all the money I've dropped in the last nine months on various accessories for the two that we already have (invested a ton of money in two 40 gallon Critter Cages, CHEs, UTHs, incandescent bulbs, and crummy thermostats to then move to a single T8 with divider and Herpstat last month). Consequently, although I really liked what I told was a super pastel, I figured I would never end up with her. (The photo of calico pastel posted above and the original photo of the super pastel were both taken on that trip to the store).

Well, last Saturday when I went to the store to get rats, one of the employees told me that they were closing the store and selling everything for 30% off, 40% if paid with cash. (They are selling tanks, racks, substrate, animals, you name it.) Consequently, I asked to look at the BPs that they had in stock. Nothing caught my fancy quite like the super pastel (although there has been some debate here as to whether she truly is a super pastel, I going to refer to her as a super simply for eash of reference). Again, though, the price was too high for my budget, not to mention I couldn't bring it into the house without my wife's approval. When I went home that evening, I told my wife and kids that the store was closing and probably would be open for another week. My sons and I were sad because we had very much enjoyed going there for our weekly trip to see what new exotic critters they had (everything from sugar gliders to bearded dragons to scorpions to tarantulas to--at one time--New World kangaroos). My boys asked me if we could go to the store one last time so we went back the next day (last Sunday).

When we went to the store last Sunday, I asked if my boys and I could see the BPs they had remaining one last time. Of course, they showed me the super pastel and let us all hold her. We spent more than an hour at the store and spent more than half that time holding the super pastel. Ultimately, my sons insisted on showing her to my wife, who indicated that she was not going to tell me not to get another snake (though she did have her concerns about me bringing another snake into the house).

When I inquired into the price of the super pastel (I couldn't recall the price I was quoted the week before), I was told she was $400 cash (they had reduced the price for the going out of business sale). Again, as much as I liked her, I had a hard time reconciling to paying that much for a snake. They then showed me some regular pastels, which were $75 cash. Here are two photos of one of the pastels (they are not the best photos):

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps789aa96c.jpg

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psda90036c.jpg

Ironically, I think this pastel was less bright in person than what the photos show. In any event, for whatever reason, I was not nearly as attracted to the regular pastels as I was to the super. Thus, although I much preferred the price of the regular, I much preferred the look of the super. I told the folks at the store (including the owner) that I really needed to think about whether I was going to "settle" for the $75 pastel and that I probably would be back later in the week. When I got home that evening, I started this thread because I so much wanted the super but was having such a difficult time with the concept of paying $400.

On Tuesday night, I went back to the store to have another look at the super and the regular pastels. That's when I took all the photos that I posted Tuesday night. Once again, I had a hard time putting her down. I asked one of the key employees if there was anything they could do to lower the price. Initially, he said no. I don't remember the order in which our discussion went from there, but I know at one point I asked if if there was anyway he could go to $175 and at another point I asked about $200. At various points during the next hour, I kept mentioning how I did not budget for more than $200 and really couldn't do more than that. At some point, one of the key employees went down to $350 and at another point he went down to $300. The discussions were not ongoing. Instead, most of the time I was in the back room holding the pastel and looking at the other BPs they had left (most of their pastels were in shed and the only one that was showing any colors was the one shown above; I had no interest in their other morphs, including a lemon blast and pinstripe, and a granite pinstripe) while the employee who quoted me prices was in another room.

Ultimately, I reached the point where I just didn't think I was ever going to be able to able to purchase the super (because the employee was holding firm at $300) so I put her back. As I started to leave, I saw the owner and started to wish her well in the future (I am sad to see the store closing). I explained to her how much I really liked this snake, but simply could not afford the $300 they were asking. I told her that my limit had been $200 and that I only had $250 on me. I asked when they expected to close the store (she told me they would be closed by this Sunday) and told her I might be back again. She offered to hold the super for me. I told her that she didn't need to do that and I truly would be happy for her if she could get the original $400 asking price from someone else (which genuinely was my feeling because I like the owner). I don't remember how it came about, but somehow I indicated that all I had was $250. She said she did not want to lose a sale over $250 and that she would sell me the snake for that amount. That put me in a real dilemma. After a few texts to/from my wife, I pulled the trigger and bought the snake for $250.

Even though the store is closing, the owner is going to start a warehouse/mail-order business and told me that I can still buy rats from her. She also said that if I ever would like to breed my girl, she will take care of finding a male and doing all the breeding and egg incubation and then would give me first choice of the clutch. I don't know whether I will ever take her up on that offer, but I thought it was a nice gesture. The bottom line is that, in all my dealings with the owner of the store, I believe she genuinely cares about these animals and her customers. Although I stretched a little beyond my budget, it was not to such a level that I can't sleep at night. For these reasons, I'm very pleased we were able to reach a deal, and I'll continue to feel that way unless someone tells me that there is no way on Earth that my new girl is worth $250 and that I was ripped off in a major way (if I overpaid by $25-50, I really don't care; I'm talking about overing paying by more than $50). Judging by all the comments here, though, (specifically, the ones that say she is either a high quality regular pastel or low quality super), I don't think that will be the case.

So, that's my story. I apologize if it was a little long-winded. Once again, I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. What great a community you all are!

BTW, my family and I are still considering names. Ones up for contention are Iris (my wife's personal favorite because you can see the snake's iris), Athena, and Xena. Thoughts? I'm also still curious as to suggestions for housing her (though at this point I am leaning toward a tub with heat tape and putting the tub on top of the T8 that houses my sons' snakes).

Congratulations on your new girl! I sold my pastel females last year for $175-200, so you didn't overpay terribly if she turns out to be "just" a pastel. If she's a super, then you got a stellar deal. What matters is that you got the one you really wanted, and didn't settle. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

Congratulations on your new girl! I sold my pastel females last year for $175-200, so you didn't overpay terribly if she turns out to be "just" a pastel. If she's a super, then you got a stellar deal. What matters is that you got the one you really wanted, and didn't settle. :gj:

---

Thanks! I forgot to mention the best part: Yesterday was my birthday so she was my birthday present to myself. :D:banana:

If you're happy with what you bought, then that's what matters most!
Congrats on your new baby girl :snake:
You should post some pictures on this thread as she grows! It'd be neat to watch her mature! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valhalha30

If you're happy with what you bought, then that's what matters most!
Congrats on your new baby girl :snake:
You should post some pictures on this thread as she grows! It'd be neat to watch her mature! :P

---

I'll try to do that. Several years ago, I really got into photography, and that was my primary hobby. However, about a year and a half ago, I started a new job and have a lot less time on my hands than I used to. As a result, I haven't had much time to pursue my photography. However, having hung out around this forum for the past couple of months, I realize that herpetology opens up a whole new world for photographers. :) I'm very much looking foward to melding my new hobby with my old one.

That's so cool! I've always wanted to get into photography, but I got into snakes and mechanics instead...
This site would be a great outlet for you to explore your new hobby and your previous one :)
(btw, the members on here LOVE photos of herps, especially when they can pretty much watch a snake grow)
:D

She's definiitely pretty. I think a high quality pastel.

Iris would be my choice, all the way!
Congrats on the new addition, and have fun enjoying her!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClarkT

She's definiitely pretty. I think a high quality pastel.

Iris would be my choice, all the way!
Congrats on the new addition, and have fun enjoying her!

---

Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGuy

Thanks!

---

She's beautiful no matter what she is! The only thing that really changes is having a higher chance of non-pastel offspring (if she's not a super). She's very bright and to me that's more important than probability. You could always breed her and make your own supers (or more of them) over time if you wanted.

As for price point, I paid $350 for my male super, so I think you definitely got a deal for a super, and will have paid a fair price for a high quality lady pastel. Congrats!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chkadii

She's beautiful no matter what she is! The only thing that really changes is having a higher chance of non-pastel offspring (if she's not a super). She's very bright and to me that's more important than probability. You could always breed her and make your own supers (or more of them) over time if you wanted.

As for price point, I paid $350 for my male super, so I think you definitely got a deal for a super, and will have paid a fair price for a high quality lady pastel. Congrats!

---

Thanks. When I was looking at he last night in person, I saw what I thought was a lot more head blushing that what is shown in the photos I have posted. I will try to take some photos with my DSLR (rather than the iPhone) this weekend and post them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

Last night, I decided to do a weigh in of our BPs and took these photos of my new girl, who came in at 271 grams. Hopefully, they will give you a better view of her blushing (they still are not an accurate representation of her head blushing, but they do a much better job showing her side and back blushing that the other photos I have posted.

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psb118b3a2.jpg

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psd92cb0b6.jpg

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7255d2a3.jpg

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps40e6d2f8.jpg

These were all taken with my cell phone so the quality isn't great. I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to take some better photos using my DSLR.