Leonardo is sick, swelling/bleeding...

my god thats crazy.

I am anxious to hear what is wrong with him :( positive energy sent y'all's way!

The difference in those two pictures is the craziest thing ever! Hopefully you figure out what is wrong with the little guy.. That looks so miserable!

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Oh bless his heart! I I know you have to be worried sick!

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Update?

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Now this is something I haven't seen. I'll call my vet and see if he's seen anything like this. Hopefully, he comes around. Wishing you the best.

Appreciated Brant.

As for an update, there isn't much to report. He is still swelling randomly, eating, defecating, etc. The swelling continues to go down/respond with exercise. Sometimes it's a full day with no swelling, sometimes he swells 2-3x a day.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Appreciated Brant.

As for an update, there isn't much to report. He is still swelling randomly, eating, defecating, etc. The swelling continues to go down/respond with exercise. Sometimes it's a full day with no swelling, sometimes he swells 2-3x a day.

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Any strange actions or behavior during swelling? After? Is he active? Inactive?

How do you thaw your rodents?

Do you notice it swell after feeding?

It seems like a freak injury to me. Maybe during breeding or something. Maybe a rupture of some sort of vessel. If blood gets trapped it would obviously have a tough time returning. But it needs blood to recover. I'd definitely try and keep inflammation down as much as possible and continue what you've been doing. Very strange!

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Any strange actions or behavior during swelling? After? Is he active? Inactive?

How do you thaw your rodents?

Do you notice it swell after feeding?

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No strange behavior before/during/after. He has remained the same as prior to this issue. He eats religiously and is defecating/urinating regularly.

The rats were being thawed in tepid - warm water until fully thawed, then heated with hot water/heat lamp for about 30 seconds to bring them up to temp. He has since been switched to live large pups or weans from my own rat colony (per vet recommendation). The first feeding after switching, he did swell after feeding. Though his next feeding he did not, so I'm not sure if the first time was a result of feeding or a result of the seemingly random swelling.

Edit: As far as activity level, he is doing normal ball python style behavior. Hiding most of the day but switching hides from hot to cool normally, more active at night, and very active/tub cruising come feeding day. When handling him for his swelling exercise he is exploring/climbing without issue. Not flailing or staying balled. I can touch the swollen area without much reaction. If I go for it directly, he pulls his head, but if I slowly come from behind he doesn't pull back from pain etc. So I would say that's rather normal BP reaction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

No strange behavior before/during/after. He has remained the same as prior to this issue. He eats religiously and is defecating/urinating regularly.

The rats were being thawed in tepid - warm water until fully thawed, then heated with hot water/heat lamp for about 30 seconds to bring them up to temp. He has since been switched to live large pups or weans from my own rat colony (per vet recommendation). The first feeding after switching, he did swell after feeding. Though his next feeding he did not, so I'm not sure if the first time was a result of feeding or a result of the seemingly random swelling.

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I'd maybe think about giving him a couple weeks of no food. No anything. No stress. And monitor and control the swelling.

I'm going back to see our vet later this week. I will propose this idea to him and see what he thinks. I really appreciate all the help from everyone! I'll update again if anything changes and/or after the vet.

Can snakes develop allergies I wonder? You might consider switching everything about the housing, save temperature and humidity, to see if the culprit isn't an adverse reaction to something in his home. I'd also use a different cleaning product while testing the "allergy" theory. Whatever it is I hope the boy makes a full recovery, good luck!

My vet said and I quote "lymphatic obstruction, dissecting aneurysm, localized infection, ruptured windpipe, tumor, blood clot, congestive heart failure, hard to say..."

So yeah... :weirdface

Really hoping the little guy makes a full recovery!

I've been following and I really hope the vet can figure this out. He's a forum favorite!

Update?

Any updates on this?

i'm curious too. lol

Nothing has changed honestly :-\ he still swells randomly and is eating / shedding / defecating regularly. He will be going in for another visit at the end of July.

x2 on the rec to hold off on feeding and see if this random swelling occurs during that period. GL

Not a happy update...

I came home to a very scary sight. There was blood on leo's tub, and a large pool inside. He now has a mound on the left side, with swelling all over the left side of his head. Unlike before, this mass isn't going down with exercise, and it doesn't feel "squishy" like the previous swelling always had. His tongue is also stuck together it seems. Trying to get an apt for tomorrow instead of end of the month....sigh. My poor baby boy. I did not feed him as per the suggestions...

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps47f13a77.jpg
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psb856bb44.jpg

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps3de23c07.jpg
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps84e8fee4.jpg
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps16a0190c.jpg
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps4707928c.jpg
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psf4fd127f.jpg

Poor baby. :( That is a scary sight. Hope he bounces back from this. :please:

That looks awful D: This can't be easy for you! I hope you get an appointment and the vet can find the cause of this swelling with the new (albeit scary) information and can treat it.

Damn tiff that sucks! He's being quite a problem child. I hope the vets figure something out and can help the poor little guy!

Omg, I'm so sorry. That would be hard to come home to find. I really hope you get some answers soon.

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Very sorry to see this! I would be losing all kinds of sleep if I were in your position. Here's to hopin he gets better soon. :please:

Owh. Poor guy. I hope he pulls through for you. What a scary thing to find. Prayers sent for ya.

I'm sorry to see this, I really hope they find a solution to help him out! Prayers are with mister Leonardo

Any update? Was the vet able to get him in earlier?

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Any update? Was the vet able to get him in earlier?

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x2 Hope he's okay. :(

Full update to come once we get home. Sorry for delay, still driving from the vet. Short one was posted to our Facebook.

First off, I would like to thank everyone who has been with us through this. Your support, well wishes and prayers have been immeasurably helpful during this heart-breaking experience. Now, on to the Final update, and chapter for Leonardo DaEnchi...

The vet saw Leo today, and gave us a diagnosis and choice. He had an inoperable tumor in the mouth/jaw/skull area. Our choice was to either take him home, and let him live out his days, knowing it would continue to get bigger....or to have him euthanized. With a heavy heart, we decided to end his pain. Letting the vet use him post euth for educational purposes.

After we left, the vet sent us the necropsy/autopsy results. Graphic images and explanations to follow, please avert your eyes or stop reading now if you cannot / do not want to see the pictures.






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Graphic warning again..





















Here we go....

This first picture is of the mouth, you'll notice the black area, which is the roof of his mouth, is the tumor.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps62dcea75.jpg


This picture shows more tumor/cancerous mounds down the throat, again, blackened areas, it goes much deeper in the tissue than the picture shows
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psc58811ac.jpg

Final picture, and where the vet believes the issue originated. The heart, the forceps show the tumor, which is about 1/3rd the size of the heart.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps8ede2644.jpg

In closing, it seems as though Leo had been battling this tumor much longer than the swelling lead us to believe.


He was a favorite of many, very much loved and adored. I have a girlfriend of his from before the swelling that may be gravid. All I can do is pray for a little leo, and hope beyond hope this is not genetic. Needless to say, if she is gravid from him, all of the babies will be staying with us for a long long time, kept under a close watch. Again, thank you everyone for the support.

:( I quietly followed this, heart sank when I saw your post yesterday. I'm so sorry Rosey but agree with your decision at the end. Hopefully a new lil Leo will show in the future.

best wishes

Oh god Rosey. I'm so sorry. :( Thank you for sharing. At least you know what it was now. Fingers crossed for some healthy little Leo babies.

Also, I forgot to say, I think that's good that you let the vet use him. How else can they really learn more with out hands on, first hand experience.

I am so very sorry for your loss. I was hoping the little guy would pull through. :tears:

I know that sometimes the best decision isn't the easiest one to make. after the vet gave you the final findings, I hope this ease your feelings on making the right decision. I also remember when you first posted pics (first of many)of Leonardo and I was like WOW. so I'm now hoping that the female will be gravid. sorry for your lost. don

Sorry for the bad news, I was following hoping for the best. Thanks for the posts and pictures it will help if any one has similar issues. Again sorry for his loss.:(

Wow that's no fun. Sorry to have to read the poor outcome tiff. I hope that girl is pregnant from him. Take comfort knowing that somewhere down the road leo's death will help someone else out with their snake.

I know I've said this before on facebook, but I am truly sorry for your loss. I know he was a forum mascot and we had all come to love him from the day you got him. We've been with you through this journey and although it has to come to an end for Leo and you, I hope that Leo's legacy continues to live on in his help to understand snake anatomy and veterinary care, in his hopeful off spring, and in all the memories we all have of him. I hope you can find peace through this terrible time and I hope your heart will mend. <3

I'm so sorry Tiffany. He was such a beautiful boy.

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:tears: I am so sorry. Poor little guy. You definitely made the right choice to end his suffering. You were a great snake parent.

*hugs* I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry, tiffany, he was a gorgeous snake and we were all hoping for him. It's good that you didn't keep him suffering and let his death go to education. I really hope you get some babies from him.

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I'm so sorry to see this, but you did the right thing by him, and you can hopefully take some comfort in knowing that he went peacefully and was much loved. If it gives you any solace, know that this necropsy educated others in the both the hobby and vet communities; sweet little Leo did a service to the greater good as his final act.

I've been following this and I am so sorry things didn't turn out better. I think you made the right decision in ending his pain. He was beautiful and I am so very sorry for your loss.

It's always hard to lose an animal, but even more so when it's an animal that is so awesome as that one. Sorry to see this.

Aww Rosey....i am so sorry to hear about Leo. I have been following this from a distance too, and i know its not an easy thing to have to accept. *Big hugs* :hug:

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So sorry for your loss. It's never easy.

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