odd spider

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Thanks for the tips in figuring out allelic genetics...

In 3 generations of breedings a blackhead spider has not made any normals, only blackheads and spiders. So yes, that would constitute being allelic. This was from a female, 3 years in a row, from another breeder. So I'd like to breed my male this year and figure out myself.

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Again, I didn't know that. Thats an interesting thought. It will be nifty to see how the black head spider project will unfold.

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Originally Posted by peterneish

Who was I arguing with? I was simply stating your post seemed patronising. And it's spelt with an s in the uk, which is where I live, was born, grew up and was educated. Your correction was again, patronising, with an s! :)


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I wasn't arguing with anyone. Again, I posted to share what I knew. It's actually surprising the response you get from people here.

I see it's also spelt patronise! I did correct you as a form of humor as you called me out for patroniSing when I was simply sharing information that was argued incorrectly against me.

You showing me there is multiple spellings of patronize is patronising to me. :( :(

Let me start off by saying that the only proof can come from breeding. Personally I would trust a reputable breeder like Brant over random people. Everyone has their own opinion and can state it. I don't understand why it usually ends in an argument on this site. I guess there are just a lot of "strong" personalities on here. Good luck op whether you decide to breed or not. Any BP is better than no BP ;)

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This snake is gonna make spiders everyone. :) I'm glad people disagree, i think thats cool. I don't mean to cause an argument as people are adamant that its a normal as I am as a spider. I just wanted people to know, that I know, this snake will make spiders. Than in the future when the OP posts his/her clutch results we can all go "ahhhh interesting!" :) that brant guy isn't so crazy after all.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...pse6c2162b.jpg

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

I wasn't arguing with anyone. Again, I posted to share what I knew. It's actually surprising the response you get from people here.

I see it's also spelt patronise! I did correct you as a form of humor as you called me out for patroniSing when I was simply sharing information that was argued incorrectly against me.

You showing me there is multiple spellings of patronize is patronising to me. :( :(

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Apologies for patronizing :) lets just make up and be transatlantic ball python buddies :):):)


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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

First, blackhead spiders have already proven to pop out spiders. Maybe, spiders and blackheads are allelic? Hmm, you wouldn't know anything about that would you? I have 3 generations of spider blackhead information that really nobody would know about besides 2 people.

Lastly, to question someone's "integrity" in the mix is unappropriate. I guess I shouldn't come on here and try to share what I know. I didn't sell this snake, I just came on here to say it was a spider based on my experience. Which you obviously know nothing about.

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Honestly, you've compromised your own integrity here by calling someone unintelligent about genetics.

There's two ways to go about an argument, proper discourse has been neglected here.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Honestly, you've compromised your own integrity here by calling someone unintelligent about genetics.

There's two ways to go about an argument, proper discourse has been neglected here.

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Let's talk about integrity. You falsly claiming that I called someone unintelligent and then questioning my integrity is a perfect example of the lack thereof.

I came on here to discuss a simple animal that I'm not involved with in any way. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain in this situation. I stated this animal was a spider because I thought people would actually appreciate my opinion because I do have experience. What makes this even more ironic, is it actually is a SPIDER!

So here I am, being honest with the public, and in no way, shape, or form did I call anyone unintelligent. Disagreement is a separate entity. Questioning my integrity because I called a spider a spider? The fact you simply don't agree is fine, but then to bring integrity into an issue which I have absolutely nothing to gain from is absolutely ridiculous.

Proper discourse was neglected here.

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Originally Posted by peterneish

Apologies for patronizing :) lets just make up and be transatlantic ball python buddies :):):)


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Sounds great to me! :) I have some good UK buddies.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

This snake is gonna make spiders everyone. :) I'm glad people disagree, i think thats cool. I don't mean to cause an argument as people are adamant that its a normal as I am as a spider. I just wanted people to know, that I know, this snake will make spiders. Than in the future when the OP posts his/her clutch results we can all go "ahhhh interesting!" :) that brant guy isn't so crazy after all.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...pse6c2162b.jpg

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Huh, I wonder if you took that picture to another forum who hadn't seen this thread, how many would guess that it is indeed spider?
That's one of the things that I noticed. Sure, normals have white on them, but the OP's snake has white flecking nothing like the pictures that were posted of the normal sides. This looks like spider flecking to me. Also, the facial markings (and I'd like to see if the black extends into the neck and chin as it does with mine) reminds me of spider, it's even got the mustache. The color is quite golden for a normal, and it's got the "two-tone" look to it, the dorsal pattern is indeed lighter in color than the sides. The thin stripe of blushing also reminds me of a spider, not that normals don't have that, but the color and stripe-like blushing I've seen on a lot of spiders, especially on the neck.

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...IMG_2522-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

I didn't want to say it was a great example. I understand people don't like supporting ugly examples and low end breeding these days, I'm in agreement.

But if I see spider, than I see spider, and I'll say that. No matter how ugly or trashy others may think it looks, I actually get interested in different looking animals, so I actually seek them out, follow them and study them. This will be one of those to add to my brain when it proves, or doesn't prove in your evaluation. I think it's FUN!

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So if this thread wasnt titled "odd spider" you still wouldve been able to say thats a Spider? I say BS...

Its a cool looking Normal until it shoots Spider babies. Which i doubt it wil unfortunatly


Http://www.BCBallPythons.com
Http://www.facebook.com/bcballpythons

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Sounds great to me! :) I have some good UK buddies.

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I've it one more now :)


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Or even 'you've'. Feel free to correct me lol


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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

First, blackhead spiders have already proven to pop out spiders. Maybe, spiders and blackheads are allelic? Hmm, you wouldn't know anything about that would you? I have 3 generations of spider blackhead information that really nobody would know about besides 2 people.

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In its context, as seen in this quote, "you wouldn't know anything about that would you?" must mean something completely different in your neck of the woods.

To be cliché as possible, where I'm from those are fighting words.

It's a complete question of someone's intelligence, and just like no one but you can see that that's a spider, I'm sure you're the only one who can't see the insult in that paragraph.

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How did this thread get past a couple people telling OP that he has a normal?



http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...DFD2CCE572.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

In its context, as seen in this quote, "you wouldn't know anything about that would you?" must mean something completely different in your neck of the woods.

To be cliché as possible, where I'm from those are fighting words.

It's a complete question of someone's intelligence, and just like no one but you can see that that's a spider, I'm sure you're the only one who can't see the insult in that paragraph.

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That quote you just quoted me saying was that he wouldn't know spiders and blackheads are allelic because I hadn't released that information. Of course he wouldn't know that genius. Nobody does! That's why I said "you wouldn't know anything about that" because its a part of my own experience. Not about intelligence. Wow.

Now me calling you a genius was sarcastic, so now that you could say is an attack on your intelligence.

I love lamp!

I don't know to be honest. I have a really nice normal female who looks an awful lot like a spider in many ways, that is why I bred a spider to her, to make some really cool spider babies.

This snake......I just can't say. My knee jerk reaction is to call it a normal, but something is a little....off about it I guess you'd say.

I don't see enough that I can say with confidence it is a spider, but that doesn't mean it's not possibly one. Someone here posted pictures of a yellowbelly they got. I think there is something else going on with it, but I don't know for sure. Everyone here sees the yellowbelly, but I still think there is something else going on. I don't know what, and I don't know for sure if I could explain why I think there is, but I do.

So yes, it is possible this is a spider. I've never seen one exactly like this, but I've seen some with the alien heads before and you could tell they were spiders. The back pattern is a bit wide for a spider, but that doesn't mean it's not a spider. The head for me is the hard part, because every spider or spider cross I've seen has a funky head pattern. But the pictures Brant has the head pattern isn't there, so you are back where you started from.

It could indeed be a low expression spider. And as to not breeding it, well I think that would depend on what you bred it to. Personally, I think it could make some sick spider clowns or spider enchis, because the pattern is already there for it. Now, to make more spiders or even bumblebees I don't think I'd use it. But depending on the combo, there is potential there I think.

If it's merely a pet, well then who cares what it looks like? Ugly or beautiful, it's all subjective, and it doesn't matter two figs as far as personality and ability to be a cherished pet.

Gale

I'm voting cool looking normal. But I can see why some say spider.

You say parents were spider x normal? Get us photos of them, and photos of all of the clutch mates!

I've been mostly reading this thread and trying to come up with my own opinions.

I can see both sides of this argument. At first glance, it does look like a normal. The color is is way off for a spider. I've seen some dark spiders, but not that dark. However, the head stamp does faintly resemble a spider and I do some some spider webbing (although not much at all).

I don't know if I would jump out and say that was 100% a spider, but I definitely can see the potential (just like you aren't sure if it's a yellowbelly so you sell it as a possible yellowbelly). Same rules apply here. I would call this snake a possible spider.

Like others have said, the only true way to determine if it is without a doubt a spider is to breed it to a normal. However, even with this option you run the risk of producing low quality spiders if this is truly a spider. Would I breed it? Personally: No. I would much rather spend my money on a spider that is a killer example of the morph rather than waste my time/money on something that might be a spider. Spider is one of those morphs that is usually very, very obvious and you can tell an animal has spider in it from a mile away. With this snake, it's questionable. But like everyone else said, pictures of mom and dad may help to determine if it's not only a spider, but if there is something else going on that might distort the patter.

Good luck with your snake!

I have to say that at first glance, I was thinking "Spider? How do you figure that's a spider?" but after reading through everything and looking more closely at the pics, I have to admit there may be something genetic there. Then again, with the variance in normals and the fact that everything on a snake's appearance is genetic in some way, shape, or form, then it can be a spider that's affected by an unknown gene brought in by the 'normal' parent. Despite the arguing, etc. there is some very good info here and I thank those who have been up for debating this nicely.

The thing that's messing with me is the color. Other than that I'd say this is a spider. If not, the spider parent had a big influence on this animal.

spider-

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Now me calling you a genius was sarcastic, so now that you could say is an attack on your intelligence.

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That's quite alright, you've already proved yourself to be lacking in integrity and composure, while simultaneously proving that you're a tantrum throwing hissy fit waiting to happen.

Here's what I pictured, you're slamming your fists on the keyboard screaming "someone is wrong on the Internet!". But, that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

That's quite alright, you've already proved yourself to be lacking in integrity and composure, while simultaneously proving that you're a tantrum throwing hissy fit waiting to happen.

Here's what I pictured, you're slamming your fists on the keyboard screaming "someone is wrong on the Internet!". But, that's just me.

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Totally. You win.

K guys, seriously, before the mods come in. GIVE IT UP, neither of you know for a fact what this snake is and now you're just getting into pissing matches about nothing. Fighting over grammar and spelling and otherwise picking each other to bits is like fighting somebody over what kind of sneakers they wear...COMPLETELY irrelevant to the thread. If you don't like somebody's demeanor on the forum...ignore them.

Only the OP will know what the snake is, if they choose to test breed it.

Back to the real topic though,

In the second photo the OP posted, the sides (bottom of the alien heads) remind me of the sides of my enchi male just a tiny bit.

Ok I just got back on and yes I am going to breed it to a normal to see what is going on...and I do know what a spider looks like as I have had a few...but I do have a pic of its sibling sister I bought that was spider...I will post pics of the sibling and more of him as well...also I do have a real crazy pattern normal that I consider a normal until proven otherwise...I never consider anything a morph unless its proven or known...

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Originally Posted by Mrhappytreats4u

Ok I just got back on and yes I am going to breed it to a normal to see what is going on...and I do know what a spider looks like as I have had a few...but I do have a pic of its sibling sister I bought that was spider...I will post pics of the sibling and more of him as well...also I do have a real crazy pattern normal that I consider a normal until proven otherwise...I never consider anything a morph unless its proven or known...

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Hurry up with those pictures or there's going to be a lynching in this thread!

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I don't know to be honest. I have a really nice normal female who looks an awful lot like a spider in many ways, that is why I bred a spider to her, to make some really cool spider babies.

This snake......I just can't say. My knee jerk reaction is to call it a normal, but something is a little....off about it I guess you'd say.

I don't see enough that I can say with confidence it is a spider, but that doesn't mean it's not possibly one. Someone here posted pictures of a yellowbelly they got. I think there is something else going on with it, but I don't know for sure. Everyone here sees the yellowbelly, but I still think there is something else going on. I don't know what, and I don't know for sure if I could explain why I think there is, but I do.

So yes, it is possible this is a spider. I've never seen one exactly like this, but I've seen some with the alien heads before and you could tell they were spiders. The back pattern is a bit wide for a spider, but that doesn't mean it's not a spider. The head for me is the hard part, because every spider or spider cross I've seen has a funky head pattern. But the pictures Brant has the head pattern isn't there, so you are back where you started from.

It could indeed be a low expression spider. And as to not breeding it, well I think that would depend on what you bred it to. Personally, I think it could make some sick spider clowns or spider enchis, because the pattern is already there for it. Now, to make more spiders or even bumblebees I don't think I'd use it. But depending on the combo, there is potential there I think.

If it's merely a pet, well then who cares what it looks like? Ugly or beautiful, it's all subjective, and it doesn't matter two figs as far as personality and ability to be a cherished pet.

Gale

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Amen sister!!!!

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps321e8b1f.jpg the sibling

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps66ba2f7e.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psceb06ae5.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps99555bc9.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psf416729f.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps15e4d687.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1650fffc.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps99469861.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7eeb11c9.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psbfc79dac.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4d175d36.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psf82c3ed8.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...ps98dd7d4d.jpg http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psd84ad8ea.jpg

So first pic is the spider sibling, and the rest of the pics are the snake in question...correct?

And are they siblings from the same clutch?

correct

there were total of 9.. 5 normal 3 normal looking spiders and then this guy...I no longer have pics of the entire clutch...also I asked the breeder to let me see the father and he was a normal looking spider and then the mother was said to be a reduced pattern normal but he already sold her so never got to see her..

Maybe it's a super paradox spider. Like...the bottom half was "Oh hell yea, we're totally gonna be a spider" then the top half was like "pffft naw, normal all the way. Screw you guys."?

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Maybe it's a super paradox spider. Like...the bottom half was "Oh hell yea, we're totally gonna be a spider" then the top half was like "pffft naw, normal all the way. Screw you guys."?

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Tiffany, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Mrhappytreats4u

correct

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I've seen variation between morphs, and I've seen variation between the same morphs in the same clutch. But if that second snake proves out to be a spider, I will eat my shorts.

Did the person actually sell it to you as a spider? If so, I hope you didn't pay any more than "normal" price for it.

Its face looks sort of spider-ish with the eyes and head pattern. The alien heads and color just throw it off.. Could be a normal with weird pattern or a very low quality spider.. Prove him out someday and see. I do not know why people are saying not to breed him.. A ugly example may look unique in someone elses eyes, thsts why people breed dinkers right? I think this snake is pretty interesting looking.


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Originally Posted by Mrhappytreats4u

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psceb06ae5.jpg

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Something else I just noticed from this picture. Firstly, it's definitely got the bottom lip pattern that resembles spider, but like the rest of the snake, is not as prominent as with most spiders. The second thing I noticed are the lateral neck "stripes" of lighter color. Hmmmm....
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...2/IMG_2532.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...2/IMG_2616.jpg

I.actually paid $50 for him..so either a great deal or slightly over priced normal..

- - - Updated - - -

I.actually paid $50 for him..so either a great deal or slightly over priced normal..

What's this? Are those greeeeen eyes I see? http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...Untitled-6.png

yes he has green eyes...tried to take a pic of them but my phone sucks

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Originally Posted by kdreptiles

What's this? Are those greeeeen eyes I see? http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...Untitled-6.png

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And your point is?

Do you have green eyes? If so does that make you a spider?

I have blue eyes. Am I a BEL?

This snake:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/09/yna7amun.jpg
Isn't this:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/09/9egaza2u.jpg

Lets all drop this madness and leave peacefully.

Can't pastels have green eyes too? So, it's now a crap bee, from a normal x spider.

I'm crying right now, just dying laughing.

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This is the problem with this forum. You guys have made it a pissing contest, and will now piss all over the post of people who never even replied to anyone, and were just stating opinion. Did you not see my other two posts, where I listed numerous reasons why I thought it -could- be spider, not just the green eyes? Did you not see that I have indeed mentioned that these markings can be considered normal markings, too?
Continue to laugh at me, and continue to provide absurd fallacious reasoning for why I am wrong. Continue to make this a hostile site, one in which differing opinion is shamed. I don't care, but I do feel embarrassed to ever have referred anyone to a site in which this behavior is the norm.

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Originally Posted by kdreptiles

This is the problem with this forum. You guys have made it a pissing contest, and will now piss all over the post of people who never even replied to anyone, and were just stating opinion. Did you not see my other two posts, where I listed numerous reasons why I thought it -could- be spider, not just the green eyes? Did you not see that I have indeed mentioned that these markings can be considered normal markings, too?
Continue to laugh at me, and continue to provide absurd fallacious reasoning for why I am wrong. Continue to make this a hostile site, one in which differing opinion is shamed. I don't care, but I do feel embarrassed to ever have referred anyone to a site in which this behavior is the norm.

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If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

No need to post a reply. -__-

gotta love narrow minded people..... FYI as was previously stated the mother was never actually seen... was told she was a reduced pattern normal.... Name a few reduced pattern morphs that could be mistaken for a normal by looking at them and then pair them with the spider gene and see what you come up with......

It's definitely also not a spider yb.

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