A Sad Day

I messaged her as well. Hopefully she will give that poor snake to someone who will properly care for it. :mad::(

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Originally Posted by MorphMaster

Oh I just got really mad! I was about to yell at her. I need to cool down

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Thanks for not yelling at her.

That was the main reason I didn't want to post the ad. I don't want anyone to lose their temper and send her a message that causes her to stop responding to us here in Utah.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I sent her a text message.




Worth a try...

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That was a very nicely worded message. :)

I sent her a message last night. And sent her pictures of a full shed. She claims that it's not from a ball python.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

That was a very nicely worded message. :)

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Thanks! I try :P

I figure being as nice as possible will get the best response....apparently not as I have gotten no response yet. We shall see! I would seriously gladly walk her through how to remove some of that stuck shed. I'm sure it would come off easily with a nice long soak!

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

I sent her a message last night. And sent her pictures of a full shed. She claims that it's not from a ball python.

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That doesn't surprise me at all. As I said earlier, I think she is in denial over the condition of her animal because she wants/needs to sell it at a certain price.

I would rather post the ad, and hopefully get the snake some help, rather than sit back and do nothing.

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Plus what good is the humane society going to do when you don't even have an address

The humane society typically just puts animals like this down from what I've seen.

If they'll even do anything

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

I would rather post the ad, and hopefully get the snake some help, rather than sit back and do nothing.

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I understand, I just worry that receiving a bunch of negative messages would do more harm than good. There are other options available that haven't been fully explored yet. Now that the ad is public, anyone can contact this girl and do any amount of harm or good. For all I know she could be getting death threats from anonymous people who haven't even posted in this thread.

From a personal standpoint, once the ad is posted I have no control over who contacts her or what they say. I prefer to approach these matter delicately unless there is no other option. I now have very little control over what happens.

I do somewhat resent the implication that I'm sitting back and doing nothing, though. As I said, posting the ad was just one option available.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

If they'll even do anything

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I would rather have waited and seen what resources they have available before posting the ad, but what's done is done. And there are ways I could have gotten her address, but I'm unsure if she will be inviting anyone over now.

I texted the girl. I just gave some tips on how to remove the retained shed and make her snake more comfortable. And pointed out that her lack of humidity was the issue due to her lamps. It was said politely and neutrally. I hope she reads it.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I texted the girl. I just gave some tips on how to remove the retained shed and that her lack of humidity was the issue due to her lamps. It was said politely and neutrally. I hope she reads it.

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Thank you. I hope at the very least she'll be able to remove the shed so that the snake will be more comfortable.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I understand, I just worry that receiving a bunch of negative messages would do more harm than good. There are other options available that haven't been fully explored yet. Now that the ad is public, anyone can contact this girl and do any amount of harm or good. For all I know she could be getting death threats from anonymous people who haven't even posted in this thread.

From a personal standpoint, once the ad is posted I have no control over who contacts her or what they say. I prefer to approach these matter delicately unless there is no other option. I now have very little control over what happens.

I do somewhat resent the implication that I'm sitting back and doing nothing, though. As I said, posting the ad was just one option available.

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Her ad was already public. ? She posted it in on a public classified ad. Anybody else anywhere else could contact her as well. Not just from the ad being posted here.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I would rather have waited and seen what resources they have available before posting the ad, but what's done is done. And there are ways I could have gotten her address, but I'm unsure if she will be inviting anyone over now.

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Soooooo wait and just let the dumb b-ummm... lady just neglect the poor snake while you wait for...? I've had neighbors starve and beat their dogs to death, I called the humane society and the ASPCA, guess what they did? Nothing! They promised to come out and look and they never even bothered. And that's with one of the furry critters they actually like, what exactly do you think they're gonna do for a snake...?

It's not like it was hard to find the ad. Even if she just won't listen to reason, maybe having enough ppl blow up her phone will just make her give up and give the snake away/ sell it cheaper, just to stop being bothered.

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

Her ad was already public. ? She posted it in on a public classified ad. Anybody else anywhere else could contact her as well. Not just from the ad being posted here.

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Yes, I know. But now it has been shared on a forum of snake lovers, all of whom have an emotional response when they see pictures like that. There are hundreds of people who visit this site on a daily basis, which is a far cry from the fairly small and contained reptile scene in Utah.

Her ad was posted with the intent of selling the snake. This thread was posted with the intent of talking about animal abuse. The context in which the ad is posted makes a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Soooooo wait and just let the dumb b-ummm... lady just neglect the poor snake while you wait for...? I've had neighbors starve and beat their dogs to death, I called the humane society and the ASPCA, guess what they did? Nothing! They promised to come out and look and they never even bothered. And that's with one of the furry critters they actually like, what exactly do you think they're gonna do for a snake...?

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With all due respect, it's easy for you to say that. You don't live in Utah, so you have no chance of rescuing this animal. It might make you feel better to contact this lady and rant and rave at her, but in the end what matters to me is the welfare of the snake, regardless of how frustrating it may be to wait or to be polite to her. Patience could be the key in making sure it goes to a good home. I don't want to screw this up by rushing in with an emotional response.

Every local humane society is operated differently. I have volunteered for the Utah one a number of times, and they are good people.

But as I said earlier, what's done is done.

All that I ask is that you all try to be polite and kind to this women. Bullying her is not worth the risk of hurting her feelings enough that she holds on to the snake out of spite.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

With all due respect, it's easy for you to say that. You don't live in Utah, so you have no chance of rescuing this animal. It might make you feel better to contact this lady and rant and rave at her, but in the end what matters to me is the welfare of the snake, regardless of how frustrating it may be to wait or to be polite to her. Patience could be the key in making sure it goes to a good home. I don't want to screw this up by rushing in with an emotional response.

Every local humane society is operated differently. I have volunteered for the Utah one a number of times, and they are good people.

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Well it seems even living in Utah isn't helping much. I think having testimonials from enough ppl might make her see reason, maaaaybe. Pretty sure the welfare of the snake is on everyone's mind here.

My bf volunteered and actually worked for the local humane society, also good ppl. They still did nothing when I called about the dog.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Well it seems even living in Utah isn't helping much. I think having testimonials from enough ppl might make her see reason, maaaaybe. Pretty sure the welfare of the snake is on everyone's mind here.

My bf volunteered and actually worked for the local humane society, also good ppl. They still did nothing when I called about the dog.

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Her ad has only been up for one day. It's a little soon to say that nothing is working yet.

Well one more day of that poor snake suffering is enough for me. I wouldn't let it go another day if at all possible. And why would you post that here, and not expect a response from this community wanting to help the snake??


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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Her ad has only been up for one day. It's a little soon to say that nothing is working yet.

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She sounded pretty adamant that she's taking care of her snake perfectly in most of her responses to ppl. I mean, sure, give it time, but she doesn't sound like she's going to budge much.

And then to post this abuse and refuse to even give out her information.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

And then to post this abuse and refuse to even give out her information.

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I've already posted my reasons for not giving out her information, and I feel like they were good reasons. I'm sorry if you disagree. I didn't post this so that people could get some kind of catharsis from telling her what a bad pet owner she is.

You're assuming again.
No one here has yet to do anything other then try to help her and her snake.

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

Well one more day of that poor snake suffering is enough for me. I wouldn't let it go another day if at all possible. And why would you post that here, and not expect a response from this community wanting to help the snake??


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I was venting, and hoping for useful suggestions. I was not hoping for people to take the decision out of my hands, but I suppose that was a risk I was took by coming here to begin with. In the future I may just handle these cases locally instead.

I appreciate the people that offered to donate money, who provided contact information for local agencies, and who contacted the girl politely and kindly. I believe that my local facebook group may have convinced her to sell the snake separately, waiting to hear on the price she will accept.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I've already posted my reasons for not giving out her information, and I feel like they were good reasons. I'm sorry if you disagree. I didn't post this so that people could get some kind of catharsis from telling her what a bad pet owner she is.

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Pretty sure everyone's trying to help the snake. Your views on how to go about doing so may be different them other's, such is life.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I was venting, and hoping for useful suggestions. I was not hoping for people to take the decision out of my hands, but I suppose that was a risk I was took by coming here to begin with. In the future I may just handle these cases locally instead.

I appreciate the people that offered to donate money, who provided contact information for local agencies, and who contacted the girl politely and kindly. I believe that my local facebook group may have convinced her to sell the snake separately, waiting to hear on the price she will accept.

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*gasp* Or perhaps it was the messages she got from people here that are helping to convince her that.?!?

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

You're assuming again.
No one here has yet to do anything other then try to help her and her snake.

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As I said earlier, I can't know that. Someone who has not posted here could very well be sending her death threats, or being abusive toward her.

All I'm assuming is that I can't trust random people on the Internet to handle a situation the way it should be handled. I came here for advice only.

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

Or perhaps it was the messages she got from people here that are helping to convince her that.?!?

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That would be nice. I don't care how it happens, I just want the snake in good hands.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

As I said earlier, I can't know that. Someone who has not posted here could very well be sending her death threats, or being abusive toward her.

All I'm assuming is that I can't trust random people on the Internet to handle a situation the way it should be handled. I came here for advice only.

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The way it "should" be, or the way you want it? And no, its the internet, any one can do anything.

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It wasn't exactly hard to find the ad either. It was the first link on google..

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

All I'm assuming is that I can't trust random people on the Internet to handle a situation the way it should be handled. I came here for advice only.

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Control freak much?

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

The way it "should" be, or the way you want it? And no, its the internet, any one can do anything.

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You seem to have a personal problem with me. I'm sorry that it has to be that way.

My only motives here are to help the snake. I am doing that the best way I know how, after a few years of experience.

As I am the one who would likely be nursing the snake back to health, I would hope that people would trust or at least respect my judgment of the situation.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

You seem to have a personal problem with me. I'm sorry that it has to be that way.

My only motives here are to help the snake. I am doing that the best way I know how, after a few years of experience.

As I am the one who would likely be nursing the snake back to health, I would hope that people would trust or at least respect my judgment of the situation.

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I don't think that's a personal problem, I think that's what everyone's (give or take) thinking. I know I sure was, Doolittle just articulated it.

The person selling the snake has declined and says she has some friends interested in it.

I am taking a break from this thread until the situation with the snake has been resolved. Arguing when I expected support is draining me, and I need to focus on this animal.

I know you are all genuinely concerned, and I thank you for that. I will update when I have any new information.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I understand, I just worry that receiving a bunch of negative messages would do more harm than good. There are other options available that haven't been fully explored yet. Now that the ad is public, anyone can contact this girl and do any amount of harm or good. For all I know she could be getting death threats from anonymous people who haven't even posted in this thread.

From a personal standpoint, once the ad is posted I have no control over who contacts her or what they say. I prefer to approach these matter delicately unless there is no other option. I now have very little control over what happens.

I do somewhat resent the implication that I'm sitting back and doing nothing, though. As I said, posting the ad was just one option available.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I've already posted my reasons for not giving out her information, and I feel like they were good reasons. I'm sorry if you disagree. I didn't post this so that people could get some kind of catharsis from telling her what a bad pet owner she is.

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These posts you care how and what happens.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

That would be nice. I don't care how it happens, I just want the snake in good hands.

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Now you don't? Make up your mind.

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I was thinking it too. ;)

Nothing personal meowmeow, im sure you're a nice person, but you REALLY grind my gears.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

As I am the one who would likely be nursing the snake back to health, I would hope that people would trust or at least respect my judgment of the situation.

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Wow. What makes you think you are the only person interested in getting the snake back to good health?? That's pretty freaking amazing. Full of yourself much?

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

Wow. What makes you think you are the only person interested in getting the snake back to good health?? That's pretty freaking amazing. Full of yourself much?

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Shhhhhh no, no, she's right, we only want to yell at this woman to feel self righteous. Meow Meow's actually the only one here that really cares, or has proper knowledge of nursing a snake back to health.

I read this whole thread. Coleslaw and Doolittle, you need to chill. I see why Meow doesn't want to share the ad and big deal if they don't. Look up the ad your selves if you are so concerned with it. The OP contacted the humane society and is trying to get the snake. That's about all someone can do in this situation.

Also, bombarding someone who obviously doesn't care about changing their husbandry isn't going to help anything. A few members sent her good info. That's all anyone can do. It's sad but also paying the seller a ridiculous amount for their animal wont teach them anything either.



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Guys.. What is wrong with you all. Cut her some slack. She brought this to OUR attention, not the other way around. You are treating her like she is a criminal for not dropping $250 to pick up this animal. Surely we have all seen some horribly neglected animals on our local classifieds and not felt obligated to rescue them?? How is this any different! She really did what she could. She can only help as much as the owner will allow.

Is there anyone else in Utah that can take this animal?? Please step forward if you can! If not, it doesn't matter how much you care about getting the snake back to good health if you can't personally rehab the animal. So stop crucifying your fellow snake lovers for being sensitive in how they go about saving this animal!

I've been there. I've seen a horribly neglected ball python and there was absolutely nothing I could do to convince the owner to change his ways or give up the animal. I was not willing to take the animal, nor was I willing to pay any amount of money for it. Does that make me a bad person?


Fact is, you can't save them all. There are probably hundreds of snakes in a similar condition that we don't know about.


Jeez everyone cool your jets and stop ganging up on meowmeow. She is not the enemy!

I don't understand how this got so catty. It seems that everyone wants the animal to be properly taken care of...it's frustrating that people on the same side are now fighting amongst themselves.

I also sent the seller a message, that was not mean or nasty. But trying to tell her what she could do, and to help the snake. I'm not saying meow should go spend the $250 herself, simply that anybody that wants to help or try has every right just the same as her. Yes, we can look the ad up ourselves. I'm saying she shouldn't have a fit when others think differently than she does, and want to help.

This isn't the first time she has rubbed me the wrong way. Like when Evenstar was trying to help her with her sick boa, and she was extremely rude to her, when all Evenstar was doing was trying to help, and very nicely at that.


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I don't think anyone is upset because Meowmeow isn't doing enough to help the snake, i think they (including myself) are annoyed by her "holier than thou" attitude.
This isn't the first thread where she has rubbed someone the wrong way, she needs to work on her social skills desperately in my opinion.

I apologize that I came off as being arrogant. That wasn't my intent. I was and am focused solely on the snake, so perhaps I was not tactful in the way that I responded to some people. Nothing I said was intended personally.

I also apologized to Evenstar in the thread that was mentioned, which I believe was over a month ago. I am surprised that other people are holding that against me, when I do not think that she is.

I will not be updating this thread or coming back to this forum with serious matters like this one. It appears to have done more harm than good. I am still doing everything I can locally, and will continue to do so until I have some kind of resolution for this situation.

I don't what the point of posting the thread was if it wasn't to have people respond. Did you think that everyone would simply go "Awww poor snake! You're such a good person!!" and walk off? The site is full of people who will of course want to help the snake and get the owner to fix the conditions.

I highly doubt a humane society will be able to do anything at all. The snake has stuck shed and looks thin. It's not being beaten or set on fire, and it's not furry. While WE as reptile keepers see a horribly neglected snake, the random humane society people will see a snake in a clean-seeming cage with heat and water and chalk all the complaints up to overeager crazies who think if things aren't perfect, then it's abuse. Akin to people who try to turn in horse owners because they are in a pasture without a coat on. Most humane society people just don't know much about snakes, much less pythons and may look at the pictures and think the snake looks perfectly normal because they don't understand the layers of stuck shed aren't a normal snake's scales and it doesn't look think because they're thinking of a cornsnake instead of a python.

People did give advice, and offered help and wanted to help try to convince the owner to either rehome it at a reasonable amount or fix the issues herself. But instead, you wanted to only handle it yourself... which makes the reasoning behind posting the thread a mystery to me.

As far as "Oh if the ad is posted, she could get death threats!"... come on! #1, generally people here aren't the kind to send death threats. #2, generally the people here aren't stupid enough to send death threats. And #3, she posted the ad publicly so she opened herself up to any number of crazies, including people who think she's abusing the snake to those that think she's a satan worshiper for owning it in the first place. Posting the ad here would have merely made it easier for members to attempt to assist her themselves.

I've given the reasoning behind my actions several times. Obviously plenty of people don't agree with me, but the snake's welfare was and is more important to me. I would rather come off as arrogant and self righteous than knowingly condone behavior that I believe will hurt an animal's chances of being rescued.

All I asked for was advice and support, which I received from some people, and I greatly appreciate.

My wishes regarding the ad being shared were disregarded, and there's nothing I can do to change that. It did a lot more harm than some of you may realize, and at this point I am unsure whether the snake will be rehomed at all. I am very disappointed that things turned out this way. I don't know what else to say.