Price of Gas Affecting You, Too?

Raptor... Just.. Yes new infrastructure will cost money. At this point I can only hope that some rich guy will pop out from the woodwork and invest in more public options, since the government and taxpayers don't seem to care enough...

My point is, people SHOULD have an option. Instead, cars, gas, and car insurance are shoved down our throats just so we can make it to our job on time. This shouldn't be the case.

Its wishful thinking, but I'd rather be thinking than just mindlessly driving for the rest of my life.

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Less consumption is obviously the answer. Making it happen, however, is problematic, and seems to be a trickle down situation at best.

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unfortunately so.

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Speaking as someone who biked to work (13 miles each way) whenever the weather wasn't miserable for 5+ years, yeah, biking is great. That said, it's far from being practical for all people all the time (some people can't arrive at work sweaty, etc), and walking is far less so, based on speed alone. In the metro area where I live, you can basically get anywhere on a bus...if you've got all day to get there and you don't mind paying about the same for your bus fare as you would have for gas in a car for the same distance. Public transit sucks.

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That is awesome that you biked. I totally could bike to work from where I live, but the roads that I would have to take are rather busy. I'm moving about 3 miles from work shortly, and I plan to bike weather permitting. Sure it isn't for everyone, but if you can than why not? You should at least have the option!! Surely there are folks out there that aren't fans of driving everyday, but they do it anyway because thats the only choice they have.

There are definitely some mediocre public transit systems out there. In my home town of Ann Arbor, MI, we were fortunate to have a great bus system with stops almost every 1/4 mile all throughout the city. All buses eventually ended up downtown which was pretty convenient. Some places are doing a decent job, why not every city? Big or small?

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As far as biking on 4 lane roads goes, you don't see it because bikers prefer to avoid those roads whenever possible; the higher the traffic level, the lower your safety. Sometimes it seems like cars are TRYING to hit you, and the more traffic you encounter, the higher your likelihood of encountering an :cens0r: who doesn't understand that you have the right to be there too.

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That makes sense, but I think the street would be a much more pleasant place if people actually liked being there. Right now, driving consists of traffic, road rage, more traffic, and seas of parking. What if you could drive through beautiful parks, a bike lane, some water, some shopping. Its an unrealistic ideal, but it would be SO much nicer than what most suburban sprawl looks like today. There is no money for it at this point, the damage is done.

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The price of gas has definitely driven more people to ride bikes than in the past. I know this both because over the 5+ years I was a bike commuter, I saw more and more other people doing the same, and because I saw the price of a road bike with any kind of decent components on it roughly double (I paid $800 or so for a bike with a Tiagra front derailleur and a 105 rear toward the beginning of my time as a bike commuter, and a few years ago, it was more like $1500+ for something similar). Supply wasn't dwindling, so that had to be based on demand risin

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I live in Chicago and I have seen it myself. TONS more people are biking than there were 5 years ago. I see protected bike lanes being put up and I get excited!! Finally!!! Bikes have a serious place in the infrastructure. Its not just about the car anymore :) :) I love my bike and I can't wait for its more practical for me to take it to work with me everyday. I just had the whole thing upgraded this summer and its splendid. I have pictures.

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Alternative energy sources are a great plan, but the infrastructure (electric car charging stations, etc) isn't there, and as a country, we can't afford to pay for it; we're already too far into a debt spiral. Yes, I know you're going to say we can't afford not to, but seriously, where's the money going to come from? More taxes? More debt? Both are unpalatable.

Once you've got the infrastructure, how do you get a significant enough portion of the public to buy new electric cars? The only one I find the least bit appealing is the Tesla roadster, and I can't afford that. Sure, I pay for gas now, but I also have no car payment and my insurance is pretty cheap. It would cost money I simply don't have. Get me something as good as or better than my current car ('02 Audi A4 1.8T quattro) in terms of speed, comfort, driving enjoyment, winter capabilities, etc, that's a pure electric or a hybrid getting 75+ MPG, and let me buy it for say $11000 like I paid for my Audi used, and we're in business. Yeah, not happening, I know.

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I know you are right. I can only hope that some smart people with money will figure these things out and invest in the necessary technology and infrastructure. Money is already coming from thin air.. it has been for over 30 years since the dollar has been backed by gold or silver.

I dunno, Maybe less money invested in BLOWING STUFF UP. Ugh.

Electric cars will catch on eventually (I hope), once they get better. hybrid cars took quite a few years to become more common. I'd highly consider buying an electric car if was a serious competitor in terms of price. I know a lot about cars is going fast and having a big engine or whatever.. but I really just want to be able to drive places I can't walk/bike. I'm realistically not going to go faster than 80 miles an hour.. so I don't need a car than can go 150.

blah blah blah. TL;DR It's a big wish for things to change in a way that will benefit everyone. The money to back it just isn't there.

Steffe,

Check out the book Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream by Duany, Plater-Zyberk and Speck. I think you'd really enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by swansonbb

Steffe,

Check out the book Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream by Duany, Plater-Zyberk and Speck. I think you'd really enjoy it.

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have it on my shelf ;) I've got all the goodies.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

have it on my shelf ;) I've got all the goodies.

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It sounds like it. One of my favorites.

Guys, c'mon here, were aren't focusing on the real issue here: getting Phx city-wide air conditioned sidewalks. Let's stop all this arguing and work toward that common and beautiful goal.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Guys, c'mon here, were aren't focusing on the real issue here: getting Phx city-wide air conditioned sidewalks. Let's stop all this arguing and work toward that common and beautiful goal.

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Start a kickstarter, lol!

In the city I live in, and the neighboring city, LOTS of people walk or bike for their groceries. People who work in town also walk or bike to/from work. I would LOVE to be able to walk or bike to pick up my groceries, but really not practical or safe when you have a toddler...

That being said, there's only a limited number of jobs in town, and very limited pay. I work 30 miles away from my home, and right now can't afford to buy or rent a place closer to my work. So I'm stuck commuting. Commuting actually does save me money compared to the house payment or rent I would be paying instead. I would like to move some day, because frankly I'm tired of commuting, but right now that isn't in the cards. My job involves lots of driving just for the work part of it (not just to get to work), and since we don't have company cars, I'm required to use my own personal vehicle. I have to go off roads a lot as part of my job too, so that makes a sedan impractical as well (unless I wanted to walk 3 miles in the sun during 100+ degree summer heat just to get to my monitoring site...). I'm seeing more SUV-type hybrids now, but I have concerns about them in terms of using one for work. I don't know enough about them, and I think they are too new yet to really be proven. I have to cross water sometimes... I have concerns about doing that using a hybrid or electrical car... I also have horses, and that requires a big heavy duty truck to pull the trailer. That is why we have three vehicles. The little commuter sedan for those days I'm in the office (and likely my husband will be using it when he finds a job... but right now he's off work), my 4Runner for towing the baby around town (because I feel safer putting the baby in a SUV-type vehicle versus a sedan) and for my field days, and then the big truck for hauling the horse trailer.

As nice as those A/C side walks or underground tunnels sound, it ain't going to happen, at least not here. This state is already in a HUGE deficit, and as has already been asked, who's going to pay for it? There are too many poor who don't/can't pay taxes, and that number is increasing. The rich get too many tax breaks and get out of paying. That leaves the middle class who are quickly being sucked dry by the increased taxes, increased cost of living, increased gas prices, etc. This state, this country, is in a world of hurt, and until we get out of that, I don't think it is practical or feasible to pursue alternatives to fossil fuels. It is needed, long overdue, but it really isn't practical or feasible right now.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

But but but... Can Phx still have them, pleeeeease?! Can't the other places all pitch in to pay for them in Phx?! We'll REEEEEEALLY appreciate it and and uh... We'll be good all year n stuff!

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bicycles are how most people in the WORLD get to work. Bikes are far more prevalent in Asia and Europe then they are in the US. When I was younger and my kids were small, I used to take them to daycare in a burley pulled behind my bike on my way to work (I only lived 5 miles from work and their daycare was on the way so it was easy) I kind of got away from it when the kids got bigger and we moved further out, but I've been getting into biking again over the last couple of years and gas prices have had a lot to do with it. I was doing some calculations and discovered that you could get a halfways decent cheap bike off of craigslist for about 60-70 bucks and it would actually pay for itself just in the gas saved over the course of a summer. I also used to think that, around here in the frozen north, it was mainly a spring to fall type of transportation but I've really been surprised with the number of people I see out biking in below zero weather this winter. I think I'm going to have to give that a try, I just have to work up to it.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

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I've biked through a few winters (snow and all) Granted I'd only be doing 3-5 miles a day, it wasn't that bad. Only when there was fresh snow on the ground would I fall over when doing slow turns (hah).. but here in chicago they clear the snow from the roads very quickly.


I have some unrealistic expectations for infrastructure expansion. I seriously believe that these improvements would be game changing in terms of getting Americans back to work and revitalizing dead and depressing cities. The money just isn't there because we already spent it all building roads that are primarily used by private cars. If you think about it, its really quite strange that any government would invest ONLY in transportation that (more often than not) required a privately owned vehicle to make use of it. Its not like you can walk or bike down the expressway....

You all are right, no one wants to pay for it. But they SHOULD want to pay for it because they should realize how beneficial it would be. Sigh. Back to my books! lol


As far as gas prices, I don't look at the price anymore. If its under $70 to fill up my tank I am happy. I usually go 2 weeks between fill-ups.

240 dollars a month in gas to get to and from work so that I can pay taxes and support the welfare system..:mad:

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Originally Posted by Tim Mead

240 dollars a month in gas to get to and from work so that I can pay taxes and support the welfare system..:mad:

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Amen. My commute is 45 miles each way, so gas is running me ~$400/month.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Guys, c'mon here, were aren't focusing on the real issue here: getting Phx city-wide air conditioned sidewalks. Let's stop all this arguing and work toward that common and beautiful goal.

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Solve it for yourself: just buy a window A/C unit and a gas generator and mount them on a cart with a plexiglas enclosure to walk around in. Portable-ish personal A/C. Surely that'll work out just fine, right? :)

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Originally Posted by olstyn

solve it for yourself: Just buy a window a/c unit and a gas generator and mount them on a cart with a plexiglas enclosure to walk around in. Portable-ish personal a/c. Surely that'll work out just fine, right? :)

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Genius!! :8:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I've biked through a few winters (snow and all) Granted I'd only be doing 3-5 miles a day, it wasn't that bad. Only when there was fresh snow on the ground would I fall over when doing slow turns (hah).. but here in chicago they clear the snow from the roads very quickly.


I have some unrealistic expectations for infrastructure expansion. I seriously believe that these improvements would be game changing in terms of getting Americans back to work and revitalizing dead and depressing cities. The money just isn't there because we already spent it all building roads that are primarily used by private cars. If you think about it, its really quite strange that any government would invest ONLY in transportation that (more often than not) required a privately owned vehicle to make use of it. Its not like you can walk or bike down the expressway....

You all are right, no one wants to pay for it. But they SHOULD want to pay for it because they should realize how beneficial it would be. Sigh. Back to my books! lol


As far as gas prices, I don't look at the price anymore. If its under $70 to fill up my tank I am happy. I usually go 2 weeks between fill-ups.

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..Lol. Ever been on a toll road? The majority of your traffic there is going to be tractor trailers.

Even the areas that have public transportation need it to be overhauled *cough* WMATA *cough*.

I go out maybe once or twice a week to do major shopping or shipping. My fiance works across the street from the post office so he'll drop packages off there, and he works at a grocery store so if I need anything, I just text him instead of running out.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

You all are right, no one wants to pay for it. But they SHOULD want to pay for it because they should realize how beneficial it would be. Sigh. Back to my books! lol


As far as gas prices, I don't look at the price anymore. If its under $70 to fill up my tank I am happy. I usually go 2 weeks between fill-ups.

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It would be nice if more people wanted to pay for it, but unfortunately, right now, with the economy what it is, a lot of people just can't afford it. Some areas are worse than others. In my household, I have a job, but my husband is off work. We just make it by each pay check (going to be a little easier now that we refinanced the house and will have lowered the house payment by almost $200...). My husband has been applying to job after job, and been getting met with one disappointment after another. ("Disqualified", "over-qualified", "not enough chemistry", blah blah blah.) My neighbor in front of me has been out of work for 3 or 4 years, lives on unemployment, can't find work. Neighbor on one side of me is retired, lives on a fixed income from social security. One neighbor on the other side of me also lives on social security. Other neighbors either don't have jobs or are working on minimum wage. Still other neighbors are unemployed. I have family members who are unemployed as well. Others who are living on fixed income of social security. It's really tough right now. :(

Meanwhile... I watch developers try to cram in more houses no one can afford, more warehouses that will sit empty and create a blight on the landscape, create more traffic and pollution with these projects, destroy more wildlife areas and drive out what remaining migratory birds we have... And line their pockets while doing so (or in some cases, run out of money before the project is finished and have half-finished houses sit empty and uncompleted for years, only to become overgrown with weeds and vandalized by bored teenagers, druggies, transients, and gang bangers). It's awful. :(

And about looking at prices... I only look as much as I need to find the lowest price gas on my commute, and then I close my eyes while filling up. I don't want to know what I have to spend... only what work reimburses me for.

I got gas yesterday and it was $1.56/L for high grade. In gallons, that works out to $5.93/G. It's robbing us. I live 15-20mins from the US border & I'm seriously considering going across to get gas from now on.

Actually it works out to about $5.19 US since a US gallon is about 0.833 of an imperial gallon, what is the current rate of exchange anyway? . In any case we should be there next year. I do find it kind of funny though since I live in MN and we get about 90% of our crude oil from Canada yet pay less for it then they do in Canada. :confusd:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Actually it works out to about $5.19 US since a US gallon is about 0.833 of an imperial gallon, what is the current rate of exchange anyway? . In any case we should be there next year. I do find it kind of funny though since I live in MN and we get about 90% of our crude oil from Canada yet pay less for it then they do in Canada. :confusd:

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Oh, my bad. I just used googles converter lol.
And yeah, it's absurd! I cringe every time I pull into a gas station.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I'd really like to see you try and walk/bike anywhere in 110+ degree weather and not have a heat stroke.

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My commute is about 20 miles and I've done it on a bike many times in temps over 100 degrees and humidity close to 100 percent. My camelback kept me hydrated and never had problems with heat stroke. Now on the other hand, temps below 30 and I have a problem jumping on the bicycle. Between 25 degrees and 40 degrees, I use the motorcycle.

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Originally Posted by Don

My commute is about 20 miles and I've done it on a bike many times in temps over 100 degrees and humidity close to 100 percent. My camelback kept me hydrated and never had problems with heat stroke. Now on the other hand, temps below 30 and I have a problem jumping on the bicycle. Between 25 degrees and 40 degrees, I use the motorcycle.

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Good for you. I'm not heat tolerant, add in a 15 pound backpack, it'd end up killing me. Not to mention I don't think biking at 6 am in the dark is safe.

for the US citizen: be flexible, be prepared, be willing to adapt. And please dont get sick. The 3 positive attributes i just typed out do work, except if you ever get sick, or just old, you better would have emigrated before you turned 50. If you want to live the american dream, go to Denmark, or to a lesser extent Sweden or Australia. No american dream to be had in the USA.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Good for you. I'm not heat tolerant, add in a 15 pound backpack, it'd end up killing me. Not to mention I don't think biking at 6 am in the dark is safe.

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I've biked in the dark many times. As long as you can see and will be seen, you're good to go. It's not much less safe than biking in the daytime as long as you're willing to invest in a decent set of lights. (By decent, I mean a real, see where you're going front, and BRIGHT, preferably blinking/flashing/attention grabbing rear.) Granted, it's $100+ to get a good set of lights like what I've got (10 watt halogen w/big rechargeable battery pack), and if you want to go *really* nice, you can easily spend $400-500 on an HID setup for your headlight, but you can get a decent basic set for more like $30 that will at least get you by for a while until you can afford something better. The main difference will be brightness of the front light, and that the front will take a bunch of AA batteries instead of having a rechargeable battery pack. That obviously means that it'll cost over the long term to replace batteries, but it's a viable option if you're cash-strapped at the moment.

Edit: Also, in the summer, at least, protective eyewear is imperative. Bug/eye impacts @ 20MPH HURT.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

I've biked in the dark many times. As long as you can see and will be seen, you're good to go. It's not much less safe than biking in the daytime as long as you're willing to invest in a decent set of lights. (By decent, I mean a real, see where you're going front, and BRIGHT, preferably blinking/flashing/attention grabbing rear.) Granted, it's $100+ to get a good set of lights like what I've got (10 watt halogen w/big rechargeable battery pack), and if you want to go *really* nice, you can easily spend $400-500 on an HID setup for your headlight, but you can get a decent basic set for more like $30 that will at least get you by for a while until you can afford something better. The main difference will be brightness of the front light, and that the front will take a bunch of AA batteries instead of having a rechargeable battery pack. That obviously means that it'll cost over the long term to replace batteries, but it's a viable option if you're cash-strapped at the moment.

Edit: Also, in the summer, at least, protective eyewear is imperative. Bug/eye impacts @ 20MPH HURT.

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....Yeah. I'm a college student with no income outside financial aid with the majority of that goes towards tuition/books.

Regardless, biking isn't a viable option. I'd end up too exhausted to focus on lecture. Not to mention, it's dangerous for me, physically as a person.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

....Yeah. I'm a college student with no income outside financial aid with the majority of that goes towards tuition/books.

Regardless, biking isn't a viable option. I'd end up too exhausted to focus on lecture. Not to mention, it's dangerous for me, physically as a person.

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Augh on the same boat with ypu concerning financial aid and stuff. I HATE buying textbooks.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Raptor

....Yeah. I'm a college student with no income outside financial aid with the majority of that goes towards tuition/books.

Regardless, biking isn't a viable option. I'd end up too exhausted to focus on lecture. Not to mention, it's dangerous for me, physically as a person.

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I don't mean to be rude, but I assume there's a medical condition involved in the exhaustion and danger?

I have a charger :tears:
Love it, but damnnn

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Originally Posted by olstyn

I don't mean to be rude, but I assume there's a medical condition involved in the exhaustion and danger?

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I live 32 miles away from college. It takes me about 40 minutes to get there. A quick google search says the average bike speed is 13 mph. Assuming I maintain a constant speed, it would take me two and a half hours to get to college. Meaning I'd have to get up at 4 am vs my usual 5 am to get to class by 7. If I'm lucky, I average 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. This is ignoring the fact that I go up to college twice on Mondays and for my evening class have to drink an energy drink to stay awake (it usually doesn't work).

As for danger, I'm 4'11". Think about it.

I pay 1.41 a litre for regular. (1.41 x 3.8 = 5.358 cad = 5.36 usd) it is quite expensive less than when I lived in Germany however. It seems that the US has some of the lowest gas prices of the G8. Actually by quite a lot, Canada is the next I think. If you look around you will see your prices are very reasonable and that perhaps enjoy them while you can. The trend is not going to change. My last trip to the UK I paid 8.67 USD/US gal. (1.4382 BP per L x 3.8 = 5.465 £ - 8.67 USD)

Are any of you guys aware of peak oil?

I think we are headed into some very rough times. You think what you pay now is bad? Just wait.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I live 32 miles away from college. It takes me about 40 minutes to get there. A quick google search says the average bike speed is 13 mph. Assuming I maintain a constant speed, it would take me two and a half hours to get to college. Meaning I'd have to get up at 4 am vs my usual 5 am to get to class by 7. If I'm lucky, I average 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. This is ignoring the fact that I go up to college twice on Mondays and for my evening class have to drink an energy drink to stay awake (it usually doesn't work).

As for danger, I'm 4'11". Think about it.

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13 MPH is pretty slow in my experience. That said, even at a more realistic speed (I averaged more like 17 back when I was bike commuting), 32 miles is probably about a 2 hour ride. I agree with you that this is not a viable solution. It worked out well for me because it was actually considerably faster than my only other option at the time (bus). It'd take me 45 minutes plus or minus 5 minutes depending on weather conditions (wind direction and speed, mostly) to do the 13 miles to work on my bike vs a minimum of an hour and 15 minutes on the bus. Sometimes it was more like an hour and a half, depending on the bus schedule on any particular day. Obviously this led to me biking whenever the weather was not awful. (Biking in the rain sucks, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a big fat hairy liar - I'd actually rather bike in the snow than the rain, even given that I ride a road bike with skinny, nearly slick tires.)

As for your perceived danger, I don't really see that your height is all that relevant. As long as you run a headlight and a taillight when it's anything less than bright out (edit: heck, run that blinking tail at all times!), you shouldn't have a problem being visible. Your height might actually count as a benefit to speed and/or efficiency, as your aero profile should be better than mine. :)

I get that biking isn't a good option for you, but I have a hard time understanding how a car is practical either, though. 64 miles/trip is what, 2-2.5 gallons of gas if you get pretty decent gas mileage (high 20s to low 30s MPG), so that's about $8-10/trip. Seems like you're probably spending in the neighborhood of $200/month or more on gas alone. The true cost is of course higher, as you need to take maintenance costs, insurance, etc, into account.

We could all try tooting into our gas tanks and see if that works?
The price of beans would go up but at least we wouldn't be getting robbed at the pump.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I live 32 miles away from college. It takes me about 40 minutes to get there. A quick google search says the average bike speed is 13 mph. Assuming I maintain a constant speed, it would take me two and a half hours to get to college. Meaning I'd have to get up at 4 am vs my usual 5 am to get to class by 7. If I'm lucky, I average 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. This is ignoring the fact that I go up to college twice on Mondays and for my evening class have to drink an energy drink to stay awake (it usually doesn't work).

As for danger, I'm 4'11". Think about it.

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I agree that 64 miles a day on a bike would be extreme unless you're into doing triathlons or training for the Olympics, on the other hand I shudder to think what your gas costs are in an average car. If I were in your shoes I'd at least be going with a motorcycle or a scooter. As for being 4'11'', I used to have a friend who was about 5'0'' who biked 30 miles round trip to work everyday except for the coldest days in the winter. Much like Olstyns experience, she saved a lot of time over taking the bus.

For those Europeans who are paying more in gas, while that's true, we in the US and Canada are a lot more spread out then you are. It's really not unusual to put on a couple of hundred miles on my vehicle over the weekend just running errands, not to mention the higher costs of goods due to the higher costs of shipping. When my tomatoes are coming from Florida, my onions are coming from Texas and my Lettuce is coming from California, that's a much more expensive salad then it used to be. We're really not bemoaning the high cost of gas as much as we're bemoaning the high cost of maintaining what we consider a normal life. Especially when you consider that the oil industry is hands down the most profitable business on the face of the entire planet. (bunch of greedy pigs)

It's a little better here than on the east coast of Canada. But I still just payed about $4.85 a gallon to fill my tank. And that was for the cheap stuff at a discount gas station. Wasn't that long ago that gas here was under $1.00 a liter. Then there was some crises that affected supply in the Middle East so of course gas prices went up. Makes sense due to supply and demand right? Sure except the crises ended, supply was restored and the price stayed right where it was. Then all of a sudden the cost of crude does not directly affect the price of gas. Funny it sure did when there was a shortage. The oil companies are a bunch of thieves plain and simple. :(

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I agree that 64 miles a day on a bike would be extreme unless you're into doing triathlons or training for the Olympics, on the other hand I shudder to think what your gas costs are in an average car. If I were in your shoes I'd at least be going with a motorcycle or a scooter. As for being 4'11'', I used to have a friend who was about 5'0'' who biked 30 miles round trip to work everyday except for the coldest days in the winter. Much like Olstyns experience, she saved a lot of time over taking the bus.

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$40 a week. I take the toll road which is fairly uninterrupted, and honestly, the SUV gets better gas mileage going on the toll roads/highway than it does in the city. Problem with the motorcycle is that I'd have to be able to lift it if I had to and I probably wouldn't be able to. Scooter, I doubt those are highway legal.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

$40 a week. I take the toll road which is fairly uninterrupted, and honestly, the SUV gets better gas mileage going on the toll roads/highway than it does in the city. Problem with the motorcycle is that I'd have to be able to lift it if I had to and I probably wouldn't be able to. Scooter, I doubt those are highway legal.

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That depends on what kind of scooter you get. My younger brother has a scooter that'll do highway speeds. It's nowhere near as fast as a real motorcycle, but it'll keep up with traffic, gets great gas mileage, and is legal for highway use. I apologize, but I don't know what type it is exactly, just that while the controls and "format" of the vehicle are those of a scooter, he had to get a motorcycle endorsement on his license because of the engine size. (I think it's either 125cc or 250cc.)

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Originally Posted by olstyn

13 MPH is pretty slow in my experience. That said, even at a more realistic speed (I averaged more like 17 back when I was bike commuting), 32 miles is probably about a 2 hour ride. I agree with you that this is not a viable solution. It worked out well for me because it was actually considerably faster than my only other option at the time (bus). It'd take me 45 minutes plus or minus 5 minutes depending on weather conditions (wind direction and speed, mostly) to do the 13 miles to work on my bike vs a minimum of an hour and 15 minutes on the bus. Sometimes it was more like an hour and a half, depending on the bus schedule on any particular day. Obviously this led to me biking whenever the weather was not awful. (Biking in the rain sucks, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a big fat hairy liar - I'd actually rather bike in the snow than the rain, even given that I ride a road bike with skinny, nearly slick tires.)

As for your perceived danger, I don't really see that your height is all that relevant. As long as you run a headlight and a taillight when it's anything less than bright out (edit: heck, run that blinking tail at all times!), you shouldn't have a problem being visible. Your height might actually count as a benefit to speed and/or efficiency, as your aero profile should be better than mine. :)

I get that biking isn't a good option for you, but I have a hard time understanding how a car is practical either, though. 64 miles/trip is what, 2-2.5 gallons of gas if you get pretty decent gas mileage (high 20s to low 30s MPG), so that's about $8-10/trip. Seems like you're probably spending in the neighborhood of $200/month or more on gas alone. The true cost is of course higher, as you need to take maintenance costs, insurance, etc, into account.

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Didn't see this post last night.

I live in a rural area and drive into the city, meaning there isn't any public transportation. With that said, it's not exactly wise for a woman of my size to be biking by herself in an area like that. At least if I have an issue with the suv, I can lock the doors and wait for someone.

I spend about $160 a month on gas, sometimes less. It just depends on if my parents decide to use the suv, which is theirs. More often than not, they'll fill it up.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

That depends on what kind of scooter you get. My younger brother has a scooter that'll do highway speeds. It's nowhere near as fast as a real motorcycle, but it'll keep up with traffic, gets great gas mileage, and is legal for highway use. I apologize, but I don't know what type it is exactly, just that while the controls and "format" of the vehicle are those of a scooter, he had to get a motorcycle endorsement on his license because of the engine size. (I think it's either 125cc or 250cc.)

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Can it do 75 mph? That's what I do on the toll roads.

Regardless of it all, for my situation, a bike, motorcycle, or scooter isn't viable for my situation. Rainstorm? I'd end up arriving at college/back home soaked. Snowstorm? Yeah. Driving in last week's blizzard was bad enough in the truck. Visibility was down to 10 feet, at best. If I lived in the city, sure.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Didn't see this post last night.

I live in a rural area and drive into the city, meaning there isn't any public transportation. With that said, it's not exactly wise for a woman of my size to be biking by herself in an area like that. At least if I have an issue with the suv, I can lock the doors and wait for someone.

I spend about $160 a month on gas, sometimes less. It just depends on if my parents decide to use the suv, which is theirs. More often than not, they'll fill it up.



Can it do 75 mph? That's what I do on the toll roads.

Regardless of it all, for my situation, a bike, motorcycle, or scooter isn't viable for my situation. Rainstorm? I'd end up arriving at college/back home soaked. Snowstorm? Yeah. Driving in last week's blizzard was bad enough in the truck. Visibility was down to 10 feet, at best. If I lived in the city, sure.

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I'm with you! Biking isn't a feasible option here either. Besides the fact I am required to have my vehicle for work... let's just say I worked in an office all day and didn't need to drive around all over the place... There's no way I'd be able to get to work on a bike or scooter, because neither is allowed on the highways I have to take. IF I were able to find a non-highway route to work, it would take me at least 20 miles out of my way, and probably take 3 or 4 hours to get to work, one way. Working an 8 hour days, with a commute like that, means I'm gone from home 16 hours of the day, leaving me 8 hours for the rest of the day. That's just exactly the kind of life I want to live, commute, work and sleep! No time to do any kind of house work, spend time with my animals, friends or family. I don't consider a motorcycle a safe option, because around here people drive crazy. Not a week goes by that I don't hear about at least a couple fatal accidents in my immediate area, often involving pedestrians, DUI's, or motorcycles. Being in a car can be fatal too, but at least there's a little bit more between you and your surroundings, and a few more safety features than are possible on a motorcycle. I COULD move closer to the office, but that's going to mean I pay more than double in rent or mortgage than what I'm paying now. I spend about $50-75 a week to commute to and from the office using the little commuter sedan, that's actually a savings compared to the increased cost of living if I were to move. If I used the SUV, I'd be spending more like $75-100 a week, which is still a savings.

We all have to make choices. Unfortunately many parts of the US are absolutely *NOT* set up properly to allow for walking or bicycling to/from work or school, and many parts of this country also do not have very good public transit. Many of us are really stuck in what we can or cannot do when it comes to commuting. Options for many of us mean using our car and spending the money on gas, or paying a higher housing cost. Unfortunately with gas prices rising the way they are that means we are going to spend more to commute. Unfortunately housing costs are not going down either. Unfortunately wages are not going up either. Unfortunately many other costs of living (utilities, food, etc) are also going up. Unfortunately many people are unemployed with no relief in sight (my husband has a college degree, has been in the active army as an officer for 4 years, and has been looking for a job for the last 4 months and hit one dead end after another, even minimum wage jobs won't hire him because he's "over qualified"). That means a lot of people are feeling a real crunch, a lot of people are barely making it (I see more homeless people now than I ever have in my entire life! and not just people who are mentally handicapped, on drugs, or disabled, but every day people who in better times would be living in your average middle class neighborhood!). All of that combined means we ARE going to complain about things like the cost of gas. It hurts when the price jumps 10c or more every night.

Welcome to America. Land of the free. Where you are free to do anything you want, except you have to drive everywhere. Which means you have to purchase a car, insurance, and gas.

Not to mention as the cost of living goes up, minimum wage just sits there...

Everyday I am thankful to have a job even though I don't get paid as much as I should. I am thankful I live close to my job and have options such as public transit, biking, walking, and driving if needed.

Once gas becomes completely unaffordable, we as a country will be screwed.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Didn't see this post last night.

I live in a rural area and drive into the city, meaning there isn't any public transportation. With that said, it's not exactly wise for a woman of my size to be biking by herself in an area like that. At least if I have an issue with the suv, I can lock the doors and wait for someone.

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Locking the doors and waiting for someone seems like a good, safe option to you? What real protection does an immobilized vehicle provide vs a truly determined attacker? It's not as though it's difficult to break auto glass if you have any kind of tool at all. (At least, that seems to be the concern you're implying.)

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I spend about $160 a month on gas, sometimes less. It just depends on if my parents decide to use the suv, which is theirs. More often than not, they'll fill it up.

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Ah, so the truth I've been suspecting comes out. Living with the parents rent-free and with a vehicle you only have to cover some of the fuel costs for is how this enterprise functions. I had really been wondering how the ridiculous commute thing was better than just moving into an on- or near-campus apartment, and now I know.

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Can it do 75 mph? That's what I do on the toll roads.

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In most areas, that speed is illegal, you know. :P

Again, this is from memory, and it's been a while since I talked with my brother about it, but I *think* it tops out at about 75 or 80. It *is* a viable single-person good weather transportation solution.

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Regardless of it all, for my situation, a bike, motorcycle, or scooter isn't viable for my situation. Rainstorm? I'd end up arriving at college/back home soaked. Snowstorm? Yeah. Driving in last week's blizzard was bad enough in the truck. Visibility was down to 10 feet, at best. If I lived in the city, sure.

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I did agree that a bike was not viable for your situation, in case you missed that. I also said that biking in the rain sucks. I never suggested that public transit would be an option with a commute as long as yours, nor did I (or anyone else that I recall) claim that any of those options are the be-all, end-all solution to your transportation problems. They are all options that CAN work given appropriate conditions and that save you significant money when they do. Obviously even if you got a bike, scooter, or motorcycle, you'd have to fall back on a car/truck/SUV in inclement weather.

Finally, and I say this for the good of *your* blood pressure, try to take a step back for a minute and realize that no one here is trying to attack you. Rather, we've simply been discussing options that work for some people some of the time, and several times, you've interjected short statements that are light on detail. This leads the rest of us to draw sometimes erroneous conclusions about your situation. (For example, it was several posts before you said it was 32 miles each way for you - had you mentioned that right away instead of just saying "I'd be exhausted," I think the conversation would have gone quite a bit differently.) I suggest that in the future, it'd be better to provide some detail to go along with your declarations so that people understand where you're really coming from.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Locking the doors and waiting for someone seems like a good, safe option to you? What real protection does an immobilized vehicle provide vs a truly determined attacker? It's not as though it's difficult to break auto glass if you have any kind of tool at all. (At least, that seems to be the concern you're implying.)

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x) truck has various heavy tools that I can use to hit someone. However, I'm also thinking wildlife. We have coyotes, stray dogs, and the occasional mountain lion.

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Ah, so the truth I've been suspecting comes out. Living with the parents rent-free and with a vehicle you only have to cover some of the fuel costs for is how this enterprise functions. I had really been wondering how the ridiculous commute thing was better than just moving into an on- or near-campus apartment, and now I know.

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Not exactly rent free. I'm essentially the baby sitter for the livestock when the parents go out of town. Regardless, I've been paying the majority of the fuel costs since mom lost her job. Not to mention, an apartment would mean an roommate, and I don't like people enough for that.

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In most areas, that speed is illegal, you know. :P

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Perfectly legal on toll roads where the minimum speed is 50 and the maximum speed is 75. Excluding construction zones where the speed tends to be 55, as well as slowing down for exits. Even then, it's not unusual for people to be hitting 85 or 90.

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Again, this is from memory, and it's been a while since I talked with my brother about it, but I *think* it tops out at about 75 or 80. It *is* a viable single-person good weather transportation solution.

I did agree that a bike was not viable for your situation, in case you missed that. I also said that biking in the rain sucks. I never suggested that public transit would be an option with a commute as long as yours, nor did I (or anyone else that I recall) claim that any of those options are the be-all, end-all solution to your transportation problems. They are all options that CAN work given appropriate conditions and that save you significant money when they do. Obviously even if you got a bike, scooter, or motorcycle, you'd have to fall back on a car/truck/SUV in inclement weather.

Finally, and I say this for the good of *your* blood pressure, try to take a step back for a minute and realize that no one here is trying to attack you. Rather, we've simply been discussing options that work for some people some of the time, and several times, you've interjected short statements that are light on detail. This leads the rest of us to draw sometimes erroneous conclusions about your situation. (For example, it was several posts before you said it was 32 miles each way for you - had you mentioned that right away instead of just saying "I'd be exhausted," I think the conversation would have gone quite a bit differently.) I suggest that in the future, it'd be better to provide some detail to go along with your declarations so that people understand where you're really coming from.

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Nice of you to assume that I'm getting upset over things. I'm not; I generally don't get bothered by things online. However, considering I have low blood pressure, I doubt it'd harm me.

Not anymore. :D

2013 Chevy Spark
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