Who owns guns and you carry?

If you can't protect yourself, you are relying on someone else to do so.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

If you can't protect yourself, you are relying on someone else to do so.

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I hate getting "where were you!?!

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Originally Posted by KMG

I also really like the blackhawk serpa cqc holster. They are harder to conceal but are comfy and secure. They have a nice draw too.

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I won't go so far as to say that the Serpa is inherently unsafe. However, there are some issues with the design that prevent me from considering it for myself, and some well-respected trainers actually ban it for use by their students, the sole exception being if it's an issued duty holster and therefore what the student in question is stuck with.

First, the fact that you have to make an inward motion with your trigger finger in order to release the pistol from the holster can make it more likely that you'll accidentally hit the trigger during the draw stroke. (Google "tex grebner shoots himself" to see someone put a .45 into his own leg in this fashion.) Yes, being extra careful and really paying attention to what you're doing will generally prevent that, but why not design something that doesn't require the use of your trigger finger at all? Wouldn't that be inherently better? After all, humans make mistakes.

Second, there have been many reports that the holster's retention mechanism can lock up if it gets a bit of sand/grit/whatever in it, making drawing the pistol impossible. Those two things make it a non-starter for me, even if I would otherwise have considered it.

On a completely separate note, if anybody's got a source that has reloading components actually in stock that isn't charging an arm, a leg, and your first born child for them, let me know, cause I'm going to need more soon-ish and they don't seem to be available anywhere. I won't be able to afford to shoot USPSA this spring/summer if I can't reload. Factory ammo has just gotten WAY too expensive. :(

I can see the issue. I have long fingers though so my finger is past the trigger guard when drawing. You would not believe some of the stories I know of people putting one in the leg while reholstering. That happens with all kinds of holsters.

I also do not consider it duty quality and would never carry it in that function.

Valid points.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I can see the issue. I have long fingers though so my finger is past the trigger guard when drawing. You would not believe some of the stories I know of people putting one in the leg while reholstering. That happens with all kinds of holsters.

I also do not consider it duty quality and would never carry it in that function.

Valid points.

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For sure on the reholstering issue with all holsters. There's no prize for doing it quickly, but some people seem to think there is, and that's where they get into trouble. Glad my post didn't get an angry reply; I was kind of worried it might, as some people get very emotionally attached to their gear choices. :)

Not at all. Its hard to find the perfect holster. That's why i have so many. Haha!

An officer on my dept tried to draw his pistol from a Safariland ALS and it wouldn't come out. They had to take the holster apart by cutting it to get the gun out. I think most issues like that are from guys just not taking the time to properly clean and maintain their gear. I know officers that never clean their gun. Seeing some of them i believe only the dirt is holding them together.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Not at all. Its hard to find the perfect holster. That's why i have so many. Haha!

An officer on my dept tried to draw his pistol from a Safariland ALS and it wouldn't come out. They had to take the holster apart by cutting it to get the gun out. I think most issues like that are from guys just not taking the time to properly clean and maintain their gear. I know officers that never clean their gun. Seeing some of them i believe only the dirt is holding them together.

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Just curious, is an officer allowed to carry his/her own firearm on the job? Or are they all issued?

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Originally Posted by 33rpm

Just curious, is an officer allowed to carry his/her own firearm on the job? Or are they all issued?

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I would certainly hope they're allowed to carry their own. If they're issued one that they aren't comfortable with then they won't be as accurate, should they need to use it. It's like if race car drivers weren't allowed to drive their own cars or if baseball players weren't allowed to use their own gloves.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I would certainly hope they're allowed to carry their own. If they're issued one that they aren't comfortable with then they won't be as accurate, should they need to use it. It's like if race car drivers weren't allowed to drive their own cars or if baseball players weren't allowed to use their own gloves.

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Most departments carry issued weapons, that being said they take the issued weapons to the range and have to qualify with those weapons. So to answer your question mike, yes they are nice and comfortable with them.
The only exception I have seen so far was a tiny police dept. out in a tiny town in TX near fort hood.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I would certainly hope they're allowed to carry their own. If they're issued one that they aren't comfortable with then they won't be as accurate, should they need to use it. It's like if race car drivers weren't allowed to drive their own cars or if baseball players weren't allowed to use their own gloves.

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I figured as much. It's not everyday I can ask a cop questions. Usually they are the ones asking the questions, in my experience! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by swansonbb

This has to be a strange thread for our Canadian friends.

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Haha very.

I'm very glad I live in Canada after reading this thread. :P I find it fascinating how people think about guns and carrying in America. There are some people who feel the same way about it here, but obviously not nearly as many!

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Originally Posted by Rob

Most departments carry issued weapons, that being said they take the issued weapons to the range and have to qualify with those weapons. So to answer your question mike, yes they are nice and comfortable with them.
The only exception I have seen so far was a tiny police dept. out in a tiny town in TX near fort hood.

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Really?! Aw no, screw that. I would say as long as they meet certain requirements or use a certain type of ammo it'd be fine. Or have them inspected by the dept first. Criminals get to pick their own weapons, cops should too imo.

Why DON'T they let them use personal weapons?

Inspector Callahan had his own .357! :banana:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I'm a police officer and I carry everyday, everywhere. Usually two. I have while off duty pulled my gun, most times were to stop a crime I happened upon.

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I was under the impression you could lose your job for that or be arrested for pulling a gun in public to stop a crime you witness as a civilian. I guess I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by KMG

If someone was to rob me I would not hesitate to shoot them. There is no guarantee that the robber will not hurt or kill you if you fully cooperate. I would like to make sure they never get the chance to harm me or anybody else ever again. I carry a pocket pistol next to my wallet so it appears I'm giving it up, but surprise.

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You'd shoot someone high on drugs with clouded judgement who tried to pickpocket you? Don't they give psychological tests to potential police officers to weed out this kind of attitude?

Again, can't you lose your job and get put in jail for that? Perhaps it depends on the state. I understand you're explaining your own stance, but would you advocate a civilian use force against an attacker? It's almost universally accepted in self defense that you're much safer not attempting something like that in 90+% of confrontations.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I was under the impression you could lose your job for that or be arrested for pulling a gun in public to stop a crime you witness as a civilian. I guess I was wrong.

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Look at post #48.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

You'd shoot someone high on drugs with clouded judgement who tried to pickpocket you?

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Without question.
What is to stop them from escalating the situation from taking my cash to taking my life?
The answer is lack of oxygen in their lungs.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Without question.
What is to stop them from escalating the situation from taking my cash to taking my life?
The answer is lack of oxygen in their lungs.

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How come you didn't comment on that thread i made a little awhile ago?! I brought up the fact that i felt id be able to kill a home intruder if they were stealing my stuff and not one person really agreed with me. I sorta felt evil for having those feelings lol.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Without question.
What is to stop them from escalating the situation from taking my cash to taking my life?
The answer is lack of oxygen in their lungs.

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While I get the Texas motto on shooting criminals, I lived there for years (Best damn state I lived in) personally I know I don't need a gun to stop that situation from escalating. Best yet, no one has to die.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

How come you didn't comment on that thread i made a little awhile ago?! I brought up the fact that i felt id be able to kill a home intruder if they were stealing my stuff and not one person really agreed with me. I sorta felt evil for having those feelings lol.

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That's a whole different ball of wax. Someone breaks into my home where my wife and kids are, they aren't leaving alive.

I want to get a Glock or Beretta so bad, but I'm just to poor :/
Stupid school loans!

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

I'm very glad I live in Canada after reading this thread. :P I find it fascinating how people think about guns and carrying in America. There are some people who feel the same way about it here, but obviously not nearly as many!

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Cat - I was thinking about guns & Canada last night, strangely enough. My thoughts settled somewhere on the idea that rifles & shotguns can kill you just as effectively as a handgun, so what's the difference? Secondly, I kept thinking about that kid who was decapitated on that bus a few years back. The whole bus ran away. It would have been great if someone had been carrying.

I'm by no means an enthusiast, but being a parent has really changed my thoughts. As I see it, I have a moral obligation to protect my little girls. When my daughter was cornered by that dog, I felt largely incapable of defending her. Once was enough.

The world can be a scary place. I wish it wasn't that way - in fact, I'm happiest when I'm in places in which I feel no need to be armed. I've been looking into moving closer to my work over the last few weeks. Between the criminal reports at EVERY apartment complex (including recent armed home invasions in one of the nicer places) and the public records of the convicted pedos and rapists (not to mention the ones that were never caught) that live within a few blocks of every affordable rental house, having the ability to defend myself, and more importantly, my girls, seems more imporant than ever.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I brought up the fact that i felt id be able to kill a home intruder if they were stealing my stuff and not one person really agreed with me. I sorta felt evil for having those feelings lol.

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Mike,

IMO, there's a world of difference between seeing someone leaving out of your backdoor carrying your stuff, and a home invasion. In the first, there is no risk to you. Stuff can be replaced. Shooting someone in defense of your life is completely different.

Open carry isn't allowed here, and concealed carry is darn near impossible to get, so no, I don't carry. But as crazy as this world is getting (every week, sometimes it feels like every day, I hear about someone getting shot or stabbed in an attempted robbery, a month or so ago a teenaged boy was stabbed to death in what authorities say was a botched robbery but what locals rumor was a gang initiation), I wish I did. I carry a tazer instead.

I do have a shotgun for home defense. I bought that rifle due to drug dealing neighbors I had at the time. one night one of them decided it was a great idea to get high and come onto my property. I had security cameras that caught him on tape. He walked across the screen, flipped the bird to the camera, then started harassing my horses. It was nothing more than a short walk for him to come to my back door, break in, and rape or murder myself and my infant as we tried to sleep. I have no way of knowing if that's what he really would have done, but considering what drugs can do to a person's mind (and these people weren't just doing MJ, they were using meth), make them do things they wouldn't normally do, I was not willing to take the chance.

ETA: HAD that drug addict broken into my house that night, the police would have been a MINIMUM of half an hour away. The police in my city are extremely under-staffed and extremely over-worked. They can't be every where all the time. That's no fault of their own, but it does demonstrate a very important point: In my own home, it is up to me and my husband to protect ourselves and our family.

Im saving up for a glock 22 and a mossberg 12G 500 series tactical version...enrolled in CC class for april.

I love my Mossberg.

I think the media likes to sensationalize things that make good news stories. I think a lot of Americans fall victim to the media trap. It's for making money, not sharing facts about the world we live in. Here's one that supports both sides of the claim: How many of you have known someone who was shot in an act of violence excluding wartime and how about knowing someone who shot someone in defense excluding wartime? Please share the circumstances so I can wake up from my delusion.

How many of you are actively concerned in your daily activities with preventing damage from heart disease and cancer? Those are the things that will kill you. This is fact.

How many carry firearms for protection but are obese, smoke cigarettes, or live sedentary lifestyles?

Again, no attack here... just food for thought / request for feedback.

My dad was shot twice.

There are armed robberies around my house all the time. It's never on the news. My info comes from police officers.
My house has been broke into. I have seen robberies go down. I have had people try to get in while I'm at home. A person living in my cellar. Drunks and crackheads and homeless.
I thought for sure this guy was dead the other day. This is my front yard.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/13/ny3ezyha.jpg

I do not smoke and I try to be healthy.

Cops can only do so much.

Everyone should have the right to protect themselves.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I think the media likes to sensationalize things that make good news stories. I think a lot of Americans fall victim to the media trap. It's for making money, not sharing facts about the world we live in. Here's one that supports both sides of the claim: How many of you have known someone who was shot in an act of violence excluding wartime and how about knowing someone who shot someone in defense excluding wartime? Please share the circumstances so I can wake up from my delusion.

How many of you are actively concerned in your daily activities with preventing damage from heart disease and cancer? Those are the things that will kill you. This is fact.

How many carry firearms for protection but are obese, smoke cigarettes, or live sedentary lifestyles?

Again, no attack here... just food for thought / request for feedback.

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It's completely ok with me if you choose to not carry or own guns. I think no less of you. I pray everyday I will never need to use my weapon. Unfortunately, if you watched any news the past month or two you will notice it doesn't matter where you live, where you work, where you shop or go to a movie, there are sick people out there who want to do harm. I refuse to be a victim. I've never had a gun pulled on me nor as anyone in my family. I'm willing to bet a lot of the poor victims in a Colorado movie theatre never had either. The point IMO you are missing is that there is no second chance. I choose to take a proactive stance on personal defense. You don't know if it will happen or when it will happen but ill be prepared if it does.
This is my personal decision.

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Originally Posted by Rob

While I get the Texas motto on shooting criminals, I lived there for years (Best damn state I lived in) personally I know I don't need a gun to stop that situation from escalating. Best yet, no one has to die.

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How do you figure you could stop it? Gun to your head, wants your wallet, you give it to criminal, he gets nervous and decides to pull trigger. Not saying if you had a gun you could stop it either but I like your chances better if you are armed.

Everyone has the right and should protect themselves as they see fit. But statistically we are living in the safest times in human history. That being said we are also living in a time where media loves to sell fear. Thus we are constantly having shootings and every violent act taking place thrown in our face. This is naturally going to make everyone in edge and think that chances are high they will need a weapon, when in actuality the chances are slim. Now if you live in a really bad part of town or something of that nature your chances are higher but as a whole nation we are relatively safe going about our daily business unarmed.

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Originally Posted by Seanjackmc

How do you figure you could stop it? Gun to your head, wants your wallet, you give it to criminal, he gets nervous and decides to pull trigger. Not saying if you had a gun you could stop it either but I like your chances better if you are armed.

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Lol how? One if you saw me in person, drugged out crack head or not your not thinking I'm an easy target. Im not trying to sound like "joe cool" here. I have had extensive military training, ie MP,SRT,PSD schools while in the Army. And the fact I have ended a situation almost to a tee of what you just described there in the past, with no one leaving dead. I know I'm not typical. That's why I said that personally I don't see a need to CC, as for others I have no problem with them carrying.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Lol how? One if you saw me in person, drugged out crack head or not your not thinking I'm an easy target. Im not trying to sound like joe cool here. I have had extensive military training, ie MP,SRT,PSD schools while in the Army. And the fact I have ended a situation almost to a tee of what you just described there in the past, with no one leaving dead. I know I'm not typical. That's why I said that personally I don't see a need to CC, as for others I have no problem with them carrying.

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Lol, I hear ya!

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Originally Posted by Seanjackmc

How do you figure you could stop it? Gun to your head, wants your wallet, you give it to criminal, he gets nervous and decides to pull trigger. Not saying if you had a gun you could stop it either but I like your chances better if you are armed.

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Have you seen Rob? I don't think he would have any problem...

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I think the media likes to sensationalize things that make good news stories. I think a lot of Americans fall victim to the media trap. It's for making money, not sharing facts about the world we live in. Here's one that supports both sides of the claim: How many of you have known someone who was shot in an act of violence excluding wartime and how about knowing someone who shot someone in defense excluding wartime? Please share the circumstances so I can wake up from my delusion.

How many of you are actively concerned in your daily activities with preventing damage from heart disease and cancer? Those are the things that will kill you. This is fact.

How many carry firearms for protection but are obese, smoke cigarettes, or live sedentary lifestyles?

Again, no attack here... just food for thought / request for feedback.

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I don't actually read media reports, I look at the police reports themselves, to know what's going on in my area. I know the media likes to over report and sensationalize, that's why I don't trust them.

Though my good neighbor wasn't actually shot, he did have a gun pulled on him by one of the bad neighbors. Reason being the bad neighbor didn't like the way he thought my good neighbor was looking at him. During the time those bad neighbors live there, several arrests were made, and each time they were found to be felons not only in possession of drugs, but also guns. Previously I really had no desire to own a gun. I was content believing I was safe in my own home, content believing if something happened the police would be there in time to stop it, especially since I have an alarm system with security cameras on my house. Living next door to those drug dealers really opened up my eyes to the reality of this world.

Having said that... I don't smoke, I don't drink except for the occasional glass of wine (maybe 4 glasses in a month), I am not overweight, I don't live a sedentary lifestyle (there are days i hike over varied terrain as much as 6 or 7 hours of the day just for work). Where diet is concerned, I am working at eliminating processed foods from my diet. I cook a lot of my own food at home. I try to cook from scratch. I even try to raise what I can. I rarely use pharmaceuticals. I don't even like using perfume or air fresheners. I drink water, and lots of it. Heck I even sew my own clothes! I do everything I can to improve my health and well being, and avoid those things which will harm it. I'm not perfect, but I try to do what is best for my body and soul, and to be a good example for my daughter.

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Originally Posted by 33rpm

Just curious, is an officer allowed to carry his/her own firearm on the job? Or are they all issued?

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Depends on the agency. Some issue them and some you have to buy your own. I have to buy mine but it has to be a 40 cal and of a certain make and model from our approved list.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Most departments carry issued weapons, that being said they take the issued weapons to the range and have to qualify with those weapons. So to answer your question mike, yes they are nice and comfortable with them.
The only exception I have seen so far was a tiny police dept. out in a tiny town in TX near fort hood.

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Just because you can shoot the qualification doesn't mean its the best gun for you. During the qual nobody is shooting back or trying to take your gun. An officer with a fat double stack grip and short fingers will have a hard time dealing with a real life situation accurately, but with the right smaller grip pistol they are in better control and may have a better pistol for them.

Same thing with caliber.We shoot 40 cal, the department has seem smaller frame shooters have trouble with the round and have now allowed them to carry a 9mm. It goes back to what i said before. One hit from a 380 is better than a million misses from a 45.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I think the media likes to sensationalize things that make good news stories. I think a lot of Americans fall victim to the media trap. It's for making money, not sharing facts about the world we live in. Here's one that supports both sides of the claim: How many of you have known someone who was shot in an act of violence excluding wartime and how about knowing someone who shot someone in defense excluding wartime? Please share the circumstances so I can wake up from my delusion.

How many of you are actively concerned in your daily activities with preventing damage from heart disease and cancer? Those are the things that will kill you. This is fact.

How many carry firearms for protection but are obese, smoke cigarettes, or live sedentary lifestyles?

Again, no attack here... just food for thought / request for feedback.

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I agree with you about the media. It's not their job to provide news, it's their job to attract viewers, so they can sell ads. Period.

My gf manages an apartment complex. Her maintenance man was shot in the stomach, at his home, when he went outside because he heard a noise.

My dad was jumped at his apartment complex by 3 guys when he took out his trash one night. He didn't have a firearm on him at the time. Of course, he's a former SEAL, so he didn't need one. Those 3 guys took a beating. My dad was 60 at the time. A few months later, he saw the cops shoot someone in his apartment complex. He lives in a nice area.

About 1/4 mile away from my place, a 70-something year old man was on his morning walk at 5:30 in the morning. Someone didn't like the way he was walking, so he got out of his car and attacked the older man. Fortunately, the older man was carrying a .38. The attacker took some significant damage to the old twig and berries.

About two miles away, a woman was working the counter at a gas station. Two guys held her up. One of them pulled a gun, pointed it at her face, and pulled the trigger. The gun jammed. Her husband happended to be in the station - and he had a concealed carry permit. His gun didn't jam. They arrested the would-be murderer at the hospital.

Have you ever seen the Andy Griffith Show? I live in the town on which it was based. It has been voted within the top 6 friendliest cities in the US for the last two years.

http://travel.usatoday.com/destinati...ica/49573514/1

As to your other questions - I don't smoke, drink moderately and am (now that I've found a successful treatment for the nerve damage in my lower back), getting back into shape - I did P90x, ran marathons, etc.. pre-injury.

Download "Safe Neighborhood" for your phone if you get a chance. Input your address, or it will use GPS for your current location. Look at the number of convicted rapists that live within walking distance of your home. That will keep you up at night.

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Originally Posted by KMG

the department has seem smaller frame shooters have trouble with the round and have now allowed them to carry a 9mm.

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Agreed on all accounts, just some depts have standard issued weapons.
On what I quoted you on, is that a polite way of saying female officers??

I think MrLangs point about smoking, being obese and living a sedentary life style is a bit out there. Folks can live however they choose. It is not hypocritical to smoke a cigarette and carry a gun. We could run down a long long long list of things all of us do that MAY put us at a higher risk for anything than those who do not do them. Doesn't mean a bad guy has the right to take our lives.

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Originally Posted by swansonbb

Cat - I was thinking about guns & Canada last night, strangely enough. My thoughts settled somewhere on the idea that rifles & shotguns can kill you just as effectively as a handgun, so what's the difference? Secondly, I kept thinking about that kid who was decapitated on that bus a few years back. The whole bus ran away. It would have been great if someone had been carrying.

I'm by no means an enthusiast, but being a parent has really changed my thoughts. As I see it, I have a moral obligation to protect my little girls. When my daughter was cornered by that dog, I felt largely incapable of defending her. Once was enough.

The world can be a scary place. I wish it wasn't that way - in fact, I'm happiest when I'm in places in which I feel no need to be armed. I've been looking into moving closer to my work over the last few weeks. Between the criminal reports at EVERY apartment complex (including recent armed home invasions in one of the nicer places) and the public records of the convicted pedos and rapists (not to mention the ones that were never caught) that live within a few blocks of every affordable rental house, having the ability to defend myself, and more importantly, my girls, seems more imporant than ever.

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I agree, shot guns can kill you just as effectively, but no one carries them. That's the huge difference.


And that bus situation was a freak anomaly, but it would have been convenient if someone could have taken him down.

I don't think these are good reasons to own guns. Reading all your posts makes me feel like some of you guys live in rough areas. Here, where I live (even in Toronto) the homicide rate is very low, as is the robbery rate. Those rates account for all weapons used, as well, so the homicides and robberies by gun violence would be even lower.

I'm not telling you guys you shouldn't protect your families with guns - if it's legal, do whatever you want or need to do. I was just saying how interestingly different the gun culture is to our 2 countries, and that I'm glad I live north of the border instead of south.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I was under the impression you could lose your job for that or be arrested for pulling a gun in public to stop a crime you witness as a civilian. I guess I was wrong.



You'd shoot someone high on drugs with clouded judgement who tried to pickpocket you? Don't they give psychological tests to potential police officers to weed out this kind of attitude?

Again, can't you lose your job and get put in jail for that? Perhaps it depends on the state. I understand you're explaining your own stance, but would you advocate a civilian use force against an attacker? It's almost universally accepted in self defense that you're much safer not attempting something like that in 90+% of confrontations.

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No, i don't lose my job. I'm not a civilian and have the power to arrest at all time. I have made several arrest off duty. In many situation we are mandated to act.

And no I'm not just shooting every one that commits a crime. A pickpocket is committing a theft while a robber is committing a theft with force or threat of force. And yes, the robber gets shot every time.

I like how you take a stab at my sanity when you don't know me. Thanks for the respect for officers. I guess we have to be alittle crazy to do the job for the lousy pay. I don't see why a should be weeded out for a stance to protect what's mine. If I wouldn't protect my property what makes you think I would/should protect a civilians, yours.I didn't like that comment and thought it was low.

So at the beginning of every violent crime the criminal should state if this crime falls into the less than 10% that will become violent. That way you will know if you should fight or not. It shouldn't be a problem to get criminals to comply with that since they are such great people.Sure if you don't have to fight and know you are going to make it out that's great. If you don't know or thinks its going to go bad, fight to the death.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

Everyone should have the right to protect themselves.

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Just wanted to point out that I agree with you, as stated in the first line of my first post here.


How am I far out there talking about Heart Disease and Cancer? Every year over a million people die before their time from those 2 combined causes of death. Around 35,000 die from SUICIDE by firearm, and closer to 10,000 for homocide / gun violence. Put some jelly beans in a jar to try to quantify that. I don't say that mockingly; a million is a number that is difficult to quantify for anyone that isn't an astronomer or mathematician, self included.

My only point there is that you can't claim 'it's a crazy, dangerous world out there' and then roll through McDonald's drive-thru strapped with a handgun without contributing to the kind of hypocrisy that makes other countries laugh at America.

It seems, and this is speculative, much more likely that someone like big Rob might wrestle a gun off your persons while you're trying to be a hero, shoot you with it, and carry it off to use at the scene of the next crime they commit. Or just rob your house when you're not home and use the gun on the scene of their next crime. Just to round that thought out, I don't think banning guns is the 'solution' to gun violence, since that could be construed that way. What I mean by that is I wonder if someone owning or carrying a gun might be in MORE danger than someone unarmed.

Again, I totally agree with the right to bear and carry arms. Please keep that in mind while reading these responses.

Thank you all for not flinging poo at me.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Agreed on all accounts, just some depts have standard issued weapons.
On what I quoted you on, is that a polite way of saying female officers??

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Some but not all. The trend in the past few years has been officers getting hired on are smaller. A 40 cal is just to snappy for some folks.

I myself would rather a 357sig or 45 acp for work.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Some but not all.

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Lol from what I have seen, women as a whole are better shots anyway.

Mr. Lang,

I can tell you that armed civilians usually come out better than the criminal. They know their weapon. They practice with their weapon. They have a loaded weapon.

Most criminals are using stolen guns and most times when I find one they are low on ammo only having 3-5 rounds. Now it was probably fully loaded when stolen so where (who at or in) did the bullets go.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Just wanted to point out that I agree with you, as stated in the first line of my first post here.


How am I far out there talking about Heart Disease and Cancer? Every year over a million people die before their time from those 2 combined causes of death. Around 35,000 die from SUICIDE by firearm, and closer to 10,000 for homocide / gun violence. Put some jelly beans in a jar to try to quantify that. I don't say that mockingly; a million is a number that is difficult to quantify for anyone that isn't an astronomer or mathematician, self included.

My only point there is that you can't claim 'it's a crazy, dangerous world out there' and then roll through McDonald's drive-thru strapped with a handgun without contributing to the kind of hypocrisy that makes other countries laugh at America.

It seems, and this is speculative, much more likely that someone like big Rob might wrestle a gun off your persons while you're trying to be a hero, shoot you with it, and carry it off to use at the scene of the next crime they commit. Or just rob your house when you're not home and use the gun on the scene of their next crime. Just to round that thought out, I don't think banning guns is the 'solution' to gun violence, since that could be construed that way. What I mean by that is I wonder if someone owning or carrying a gun might be in MORE danger than someone unarmed.

Again, I totally agree with the right to bear and carry arms. Please keep that in mind while reading these responses.

Thank you all for not flinging poo at me.

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Ok I want to be nice and calm. I started this thread and clearly stated I don't intend to start a political debate here. I've gotten sucked in a bit so I'm removing myself from it now. If you MrLang would like to start a gun control thread please do. Ill debate my points there. This was simply a thread trying to get people who share a love for snakes to learn what else we have in common. I actually think you should start a thread and lay out your McDonald's drive thru and carrying a firearm hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

How come you didn't comment on that thread i made a little awhile ago?! I brought up the fact that i felt id be able to kill a home intruder if they were stealing my stuff and not one person really agreed with me. I sorta felt evil for having those feelings lol.

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I don't look past the first page so it was probably gone down the line.

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Originally Posted by Rob

While I get the Texas motto on shooting criminals, I lived there for years (Best damn state I lived in) personally I know I don't need a gun to stop that situation from escalating. Best yet, no one has to die.

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Even with my background, I am to old and far to tired to put up a fight anymore. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rob

Lol how? One if you saw me in person, drugged out crack head or not your not thinking I'm an easy target. Im not trying to sound like "joe cool" here. I have had extensive military training, ie MP,SRT,PSD schools while in the Army. And the fact I have ended a situation almost to a tee of what you just described there in the past, with no one leaving dead. I know I'm not typical. That's why I said that personally I don't see a need to CC, as for others I have no problem with them carrying.

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I am sure Mr Chris Kyle had just as much (if not more) training than either of us put together and none of it helped him. Even the firearm on his hip didn't do any good. I would rather have the choice of taking your life and keeping mine over waiting for PD to show up after the fact to mark my body.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Lol from what I have seen, women as a whole are better shots anyway.

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My wife is deadly with her .357 :rofl:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I was under the impression you could lose your job for that or be arrested for pulling a gun in public to stop a crime you witness as a civilian. I guess I was wrong.



You'd shoot someone high on drugs with clouded judgement who tried to pickpocket you? Don't they give psychological tests to potential police officers to weed out this kind of attitude?

Again, can't you lose your job and get put in jail for that? Perhaps it depends on the state. I understand you're explaining your own stance, but would you advocate a civilian use force against an attacker? It's almost universally accepted in self defense that you're much safer not attempting something like that in 90+% of confrontations.

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In Oklahoma, you can still act as law enforcement as long as you're carrying concealed. At my department we can carry whatever we want while off duty. Only requirements is that it has to be between .380 and .45. We can also carry whatever we want to while ON duty, but we have to shoot two different qualification courses with the pistol. The normal CLEET course and our department course which is more strict and shoot at greater distances.

KMG, nobody realizes what we deal with on a day to day scene. I wish people would do a ride-along and actually SEE what we deal with. Most think it's just riding around giving people tickets. I wish that's all there was to it!

I'm never here to fling poo.

Going through McDonalds is your choice, being robbed isn't. I can care less if someone wants to hurt themselves. (Until it comes to if I have to pay for their healthcare)

There are also just bad genetics that add to that number. I'm all for cleaning up the human gene pool too :p

I'm not say everyone should have a gun. You are right, a number of people would have the gun taken from them and used on them.
A construction worker could have his hammer taken off his tool belt and used to bash his brains in. A gun is a tool.
In the right hands it could save a life, in the wrong hands it could take one.

I can see both sides.
I'm pretty open to let everything go until it comes to hurting someone else.

99% of criminal death in my city is over drugs and money. The 1% is domestic.
I think most crime comes from the Government trying to control its people.

Take drugs for example. It's supply and demand. Clean up the streets, price goes sky high, crime follows the money.
The junkie needs more money to get his fix. The dealer rips off the buyer or his supplier. People get pissed.

Do I want everyone walking down the street stoned out of his head? No. Do I think it should be a crime to do an 8ball in your home over the weekend? No.


If anyone here feels they have the right to say a person shouldn't do something (unless its hurting another person). Has no say if someone wants to ban their snakes. No one should have the right to control another human and tell them what rights they have.

The Government needs to be fixing the roads and bridges, not telling me what kind of gun I can own or what snake is safe for me. They don't need to take away my 64oz coke or tell me if I can have transfat. They should have no say if I want to grow a plant inside my house.

People need to worry and take care of themselves and their family, let everyone else do the same. If that ever happened your kids, kids might just have a real chance to be free.