Sterling ball or Pewter Ball

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Originally Posted by Deborah

TRADED you say? How about the "I paid $850 for this male?" :confused:

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Yes, that was the price that Mr. Miller placed on it. Granted I didn't "pay" for it with money, the 850 was "paid" through trade value......Granted I should've worded it differently

I'm still trying to see where the problem is......The breeder right there in black and white reaffirmed the snake and it's genetics, and guarantees it.......:weirdface

Geez this is all just terrible. :( I mean every last bit of it. I know it's a harsh reality, but it's sad and ridiculous that people can't just be forthright an honest. It is disappointing. I'm so sorry to watch the BP world have to deal w crap like this.... They are snakes... Living creatures.... It's upsetting that this level of scamming and crap has to be brought into it.

K so...the snake in question IMHO is a pewter. I say this for a few reasons.
A) the head is not near blushed out enough to be a super pastel
B) the colour is wayyy off, again not near blushed out
C) the pattern is fairly contrasty to the rest of the snake, stirlings patters gets faded and almost disappears sometimes

From what I can tell (being an outsider here) is that you were mad that you seemed to be dooped so you went ahead and sold the snake as the BEST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. That right there is the part that is wrong. It's wrong on the original breeders part and on yours. If your not 100% sure then you have to sell it as the step down. I've seen many people selling things that are (for example) pewter possible yellow belly for the same price as pewter. The breeder is saying "I don't know 100% if the YB is in there, but I know its a pewter so I will sell it as that. If it turns out there's yellow belly in there, awesome for the new owner." That's what a responsible person would do.

Secondly, if you are starting some kind of reptile breeding business, why wouldn't you start with the best examples of the morphs you want? If you want to be successful then you need animals that are QUALITY and that STAND OUT among all the sub par animals.

It seems like there has been many lies here. My suggestion is trade the snake back for the yellow belly, then try and work something out with the original breeder. If his reputation is what you say it is, then he should be willing to help you out.

Well as stated before, the genetics are guaranteed......Right from them breeder's mouth

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Well as stated before, the genetics are guaranteed......Right from them breeder's mouth

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Guaranteed doesn't mean accurate.

Looks like 2 different snakes to me......

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps5c43a6f6.png

A lot of inconsistencies in the story.

The text, as honest as you've been so far I wouldn't put too much weigh on it.

If this was the first set of pictures you posted...

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Looking for you guy's opintions....So here he is with and without flash

With flash
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...rlingflash.jpg


With out flash
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ingnoflash.jpg

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Then what on earth does the first pic in this post have to do with anything? Yes, it "looks like 2 different snakes", but that's because it isn't the one you've posted!

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Looks like 2 different snakes to me......

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps5c43a6f6.png

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Ya camera tricks are going to help your case. Come on really?

I just want my yellowbelly back, or i want him to send me another snake to make up for the difference in trade. to make it even. I traded for a (STERLING). Not a possible sterling, not for a pewter. The only fair and right thing to do is....# 1 send me another snake to make up the difference, #2 send me a postal money order to make up the difference in price , Or # 3 send my yellow belly back to me and ill send this POSSIBLE sterling/pewter back to him. I just want whats fair and whats right. What do you guys think ?????

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

If this was the first set of pictures you posted...

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Looking for you guy's opintions....So here he is with and without flash

With flash
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...rlingflash.jpg


With out flash
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ingnoflash.jpg

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Then what on earth does the first pic in this post have to do with anything? Yes, it "looks like 2 different snakes", but that's because it isn't the one you've posted!

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Looks like 2 different snakes to me......

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps5c43a6f6.png

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Since the first pic in the last post is lifted directly from world of ball pythons I believe he is trying to say they are not the same morph.

However the original pictures of what is undoubtedly the same snake plainly shows he has tampered with the picture in some way - either by washing it out with a close flash or in photoshop etc.


dr del

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Yes, that was the price that Mr. Miller placed on it. Granted I didn't "pay" for it with money, the 850 was "paid" through trade value......Granted I should've worded it differently

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

I paid 850 for this snake :(

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

I'm still trying to see where the problem is......The breeder right there in black and white reaffirmed the snake and it's genetics, and guarantees it.......:weirdface

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The inconsistencies are one of the problem.

When someone has doubt and believe they might have been duped they tend to be honest so why say you paid $850 if you TRADED?

Which version is the truth trade or cash? :confused:

If cash is the truth this means you really wanted that animal in your projects then if so why turn around and sell it? I assume you won't mind posting the transaction details to clear that fact that is was a trade.

What I am trying to do is getting to the bottom of this because obviously there is an issue with you and Ilovevenom or with both.







Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

What do you think would be the right thing he should do ?? He told me it was a sterling, I traded for a STERLING. Not a pewter, or POSSIBLE sterling. He knew there were serious doubts long before making the trade deal with me. The en he went ahead and traded it to me anyway as a STERLING. He could of told me about the doubts, the questions about the snakes identity and let me make the decision myself to go ahead with the trade or not. But he didnt. Have you guys seen the yellowbelly female i traded him for this snake ? there is NO Doubt , that yellowbelly is the best looking yellow belly i have EVER laid eyes on. Its not fair, not right, and it needs to be fixed. I have asked him to send me another snake to make up the difference, send me a postal money order to make up the difference, or send the yellowbelly back to me and ill send this snake back to him. What would you guys think ?????

I think I'd have a lot more sympathy with your plight if you hadn't tried to pass it on as a sterling yourself at the same price level without mentioning the short length of time you had it or that there were any possible questions about its genetics.


dr del

that was before i even noticed the questioning about the ball.

Some people just don't know when to admit wrong doing. We all make mistakes, it's in our nature. It's how we react after those mistakes and correct them that define us.

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Originally Posted by ilovevenom

that was before i even noticed the questioning about the ball.

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Still does not justify why after YOU called him out here you answered inquiries about the snake and kept labeling it a a Sterling also :confused:

I have the timeline and it does not look good on your part either.

I would like everyones opinion on how to fix this, make it right ??????

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Originally Posted by ilovevenom

I would like everyones opinion on how to fix this, make it right ??????

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Chalk it up to Kharma, since I highly doubt you've managed to get around to "making it right" between yourself and those you've managed to cheat.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Chalk it up to Kharma, since I highly doubt you've managed to get around to "making it right" between yourself and those you've managed to cheat.

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Probably sad but true...

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Chalk it up to Kharma, since I highly doubt you've managed to get around to "making it right" between yourself and those you've managed to cheat.

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As constructive as this post was, I suggest you reverse the trade you did with the OP, and then the OP can settle things with the breeder he obtained the pewter from, or he can breed him and prove him out as a sterling if he still believes him.

He keeps insisting its a sterling. Can you guys tell me why you feel its not a sterling ?

Because it doesn't look like a stirling. I've posted on this thread why I think it isn't and I don't feel like I should again.

The breeder who produced that sterling is Adam Chesla....And the photo of that sterling is of it in the light, not Photoshop.....And that can easily be proved.....smh

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Originally Posted by dr del

Since the first pic in the last post is lifted directly from world of ball pythons I believe he is trying to say they are not the same morph.

However the original pictures of what is undoubtedly the same snake plainly shows he has tampered with the picture in some way - either by washing it out with a close flash or in photoshop etc.


dr del

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Once again, sorry but that photo wasn't tampered with, and no Photoshop......smh

so you cant send me anything to make it a fair even trade ?? your going to insist its a sterling !!? even after all these people here are telling you plain out that its NOT a sterling ???? how id that right ? all of these python owners and breeders here are wrong? is that what you are saying ????

alls im asking you to do is send me a snake to make up the difference, a few pastels, something. Its all u need to do to make this an even fair trade. I sent you a YELLOWBELLY female almost 900 grams. She is AWSOME !! anyone in this community can take one look at her and say for sure 100% that she is a beautiful yellow belly girl. THAT I SENT U !!! but the snake u sent me, they can take one look at that and say that it is NOT a sterling, that it is VERY questionable. How and why do u feel thats right ????

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

The breeder who produced that sterling is Adam Chesla....And the photo of that sterling is of it in the light, not Photoshop.....And that can easily be proved.....smh

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If Adam is putting his name on the line saying this is a sterling, then I would believe it is the lowest quality sterling ever. Which is fine, if it proves out. Marty/David/whoever the hell you are, if he gets written documentation from Adam Chelsea, you should have no issues with him. Adam is a good guy, and IF he will put his genetics guarantee on the snake, he will stand behind it if it doesn't prove out. That, is a big IF though. Seeing how this poor snake has passed hands what, 4-5+ times in it's short life? I know if I were Adam, I wouldn't touch this cluster with a 10ft pole with how many scammers/dishonest people have their hands in the honey pot.

The snake has only had 2 owners from what I've seen. It was given to Matt by the breeder Adam, then to me, and now to David Huffman or whatever name he goes by now....that's only 2 or 3 if you include Mr. Jason Bourne over there

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

If Adam is putting his name on the line saying this is a sterling, then I would believe it is the lowest quality sterling ever. Which is fine, if it proves out. Marty/David/whoever the hell you are, if he gets written documentation from Adam Chelsea, you should have no issues with him. Adam is a good guy, and IF he will put his genetics guarantee on the snake, he will stand behind it if it doesn't prove out. That, is a big IF though. Seeing how this poor snake has passed hands what, 4-5+ times in it's short life? I know if I were Adam, I wouldn't touch this cluster with a 10ft pole with how many scammers/dishonest people have their hands in the honey pot.

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I've texted Adam and am waiting for his responce

As far as I can see it, just reverse the trade. I don't see how this can be THIS HARD. 9 pages of bickering over if it's a Sterling or a Pewter, calling everyone out, making all these demands... Why is it so hard to just say "okay, send me my snake and I'll send you yours and that's that." To me, it seems like the guy who traded it doesn't WANT it back.

I'm probably in the "younger" crowd on this forum and even I'M shaking my head at this ridiculousness. We're all SUPPOSED to be adults here. This seems like a case of making a mountain out of a molehill, in my opinion...


EDIT: supertiger retics, here's an idea. Instead of acting middleman between venom and Adam, why don't you get Adam to speak directly to this person? Not point fingers at anyone, but having a person relaying info to everyone leaves a lot of room for doubt on whether the info is truthful or if someone's lying.

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps2561d000.png

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Your friend matt says his friend shay is friends with adam (which is a funny line anyways..my friends' friend is friends with the breeder, so it's def true). I took this as the snake went from Adam (1), to Shay (2), to Matt (3), to you (4), to huffman (5). Even at 3 (Matt-you-Huffman) that is farther than most people will go with a genetics guarantee unless the snake had paperwork to begin with that followed the snake to each new home.

Without the original paperwork, do you really think Adam is going to put his name on the line for this? I have my doubts, but hell, you never know. Adam may have an awesome memory and know THAT snake is the one he sold to shay or matt however long ago. It would be great if you could get the guarantee from Adam, but until you do, it's all just heresay BS trying to cover your ass because you were dishonest about the fact that you (and quite a few others) had doubts about the sterling/pewter.

Own up to the fact you were shady by selling off this snake as a sterling without informing the buyer about the doubts you had. You originally wanted a sterling for your breeding plans, got a guarantee from your friend, yet still traded it off without giving the buyer any inkling about any of it.

You can sit here and do he said she said my aunt's cousin's friend's boyfriend's dog's vet said all you want. Until you get a written guarantee from the breeder of this snake, or it proves out, you are being shady and making excuses to *try* to cover your ass.

To Huffman: I seriously can't stand reading your posts. You screwed another member here out of that yellowbelly, by backing out on the trade after they had their snakes on hold for you (and missed sales because of it). I have zero sympathy for you, and believe you got your karma kick in the pants. I'm just happy I was able to see it. So please don't think I'm taking your side on this, I just think he should have been up front about the doubts to whomever he sold/traded that snake to.

So I have no idea what's going on here, I thought Venom was the one who had the "Sterling" and vice versa. I'm seriously lost.

But I still maintain that you both should just trade them back. It would solve everything and everyone can stop fighting in this thread, because it's getting ridiculous and way out of hand.

I completely agree with xFenrir... My only real issue is this: aside from this other issue... from this post, I see - that supertiger got this snake and questioned whether it was a Sterling or a Pewter. Many people told him they felt it was a Pewter. He said he was upset because it was sold to him as a Sterling and a Pewter DOES NOT fit into his breeding plan, but the Sterling DID. He chose to turn around and sell it (purportedly dishonestly as a Sterling), claiming he has proof that it is indeed a Sterling now... But my question is - if he learned that it was indeed truly a Sterling and was willing to sell it as that, why didn't he keep it, as he said himself that he needed a Sterling for his breeding plan?

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

So I have no idea what's going on here, I thought Venom was the one who had the "Sterling" and vice versa. I'm seriously lost.

But I still maintain that you both should just trade them back. It would solve everything and everyone can stop fighting in this thread, because it's getting ridiculous and way out of hand.

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Huffman=ilovevenom=martysomething=david or some crap. He's changed his name a few times after he got banned from Fauna for screwing people over.

If they trade back, and I never see another ad for that pewtersterling or yellowbelly again, I will be a very happy kitty. That would be great :rolleyes:

Matt and Shay are business partners.......And I won't stand for anyone saying that I was dishonest in this dealing.....I've seen plenty of pix of sterlings, and that snakes looks like almost everyone of them......I was told by 2 people who have great standing and a great reputation in the hobby that it is a STERLING......And those people are guaranteeing and standing behind the genetics of a snake they didn't even produce.....

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Matt and Shay are business partners.......And I won't stand for anyone saying that I was dishonest in this dealing.....I've seen plenty of pix of sterlings, and that snakes looks like almost everyone of them......I was told by 2 people who have great standing and a great reputation in the hobby that it is a STERLING......And those people are guaranteeing and standing behind the genetics of a snake they didn't even produce.....

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Then by all means, sit. Because you were dishonest. You are the one who posted asking if it was a Sterling or a pewter. You are the one who doubted the snakes genetics. Therefore YOU are the one responsible for relaying said doubts to the buyer of your snake. I don't care if Ralph Davis, kevin from nerd, and every other breeder in the world said it was a Sterling. It was you who had doubts. All you needed to say was "I had a little doubt on sterling vs pewter, but the breeder I got him from is guaranteeing the genetics" you chose not to mention any of your doubts, or the genetics guarantee when you posted your trade. (Still haven't mentioned why if a sterling fit, you then traded it)

Even if everyone wants to pat your head and say you didn't do anything wrong, you're a good boy, in my eyes you're still a flipper and a dishonest one at that. And evidently too proud to admit you made a bad business move.

Supertiger retics.....everything that people are saying in the forum makes total sense. Are you going to do the right thing and make the trade right ? If i have to contact my lawyer, i will do so. It will be worth it to me to take you to court and sue you for fraud and being totally dishonest. I have all of our emails, and all of the postings from the forum and postings from other people telling you that the snake isnt a sterling. The fact that you yourself questioned it, is good enough for a lawsuit. Im asking you one more time, if you will please do something to make this trade right. I am asking you to send me another ball python morph to make up for the difference, or send me a postal money order for the difference. It is up to you. PLease let me know what you want to do. If not, I will and am going to move forward legally.

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Originally Posted by ilovevenom

Supertiger retics.....everything that people are saying in the forum makes total sense. Are you going to do the right thing and make the trade right ? If i have to contact my lawyer, i will do so. It will be worth it to me to take you to court and sue you for fraud and being totally dishonest. I have all of our emails, and all of the postings from the forum and postings from other people telling you that the snake isnt a sterling. The fact that you yourself questioned it, is good enough for a lawsuit. Im asking you one more time, if you will please do something to make this trade right. I am asking you to send me another ball python morph to make up for the difference, or send me a postal money order for the difference. It is up to you. PLease let me know what you want to do. If not, I will and am going to move forward legally.

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Just for the record, its also in writing YOU saying youre going to go to his house to deal with the problem... Not a smart move if you planned on taking legal action. He can say he didnt want to have anymore dealings with you because he felt threatened. The law is a funny thing my friend


Http://www.BCBallPythons.com
Http://www.facebook.com/bcballpythons

This thread while entertaining, makes me lose a little bit more faith in people. Makes me appreciate the honest people in our hobby.

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Originally Posted by supertiger retics

Matt and Shay are business partners.......And I won't stand for anyone saying that I was dishonest in this dealing.....I've seen plenty of pix of sterlings, and that snakes looks like almost everyone of them......I was told by 2 people who have great standing and a great reputation in the hobby that it is a STERLING......And those people are guaranteeing and standing behind the genetics of a snake they didn't even produce.....

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But then why did you sell the snake if you were looking for a Sterling to begin with? After you were told by several members that it visually didn't fit the description of a Sterling but instead a Pewter, you said you were just going to sell it then.... You sold it to another member as a Sterling, and yes IMO dishonestly since you wanted a Sterling and not a Pewter, but sold the "Sterling" (aka Pewter) that you already had in hand. Can you tell me that is not shady? And I am not questioning or degrading any person/breeder 'involved' that has good standing... I'm questioning your integrity and honesty, and am just asking you to clarify.

i never THReatened him MYFRIEND. I sid i would go to his house if need be. Thats not a threat. If someone will not answer or give u a response or do right by a deal, and you cant get intouch with them, then what do u do???? u go to them. CORRECT ??? i never made a threat. Im asking him and giving him a chance to just make this right. He could send me a few pastel males, or a pastel female, or any morph to make up the difference, he could send me a postal money order, or.... we could trade back. I just want it to be right. PERIOD. Whats wrong with that ??????

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Originally Posted by ilovevenom

Im not making threats, but i can promise you and everyone here that if he doesnt make it right, and doesnt contact me to make this right, i will be paying him a visit..... Make this right, contact me before this turns into something that it doesnt need to be turned into. Enough said. period.

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THAT is a threat. Even if u say you are not making threats, it still is.

What are you going to do when you go to his house? Sit on his porch until you get your snakes? Go on a hunger strike?

First off hes not ignoring you because hes posting in this thread. And like ppl have stated, take it to the BOI

What would I do? I wouldnt have even bought that snake as a Sterling so I wouldnt be put in that position. But talk to your lawyer if you want. Im just saying, watch what YOU put out there because it doesnt all depend on what HE said, the law works both ways and ANY loophole his lawyer can find he will use. And your "threat/non-threat" would be the first thing I look at




Http://www.BCBallPythons.com
Http://www.facebook.com/bcballpythons

Bottom line I was told it was a sterling, I traded it as a sterling........Why.........Because its a sterling......I only had doubts about the snake because I'm totally new to ball pythons and the morphs, and what members here said about the snake......But I've never been one to believe everything I hear or read, so I did research......And once again a person who is VERY well known in the herp community gave me his word and guarantee that it's a sterling......So why would a man with such an outstanding reputation in this hobby all of a sudden, up and scam me by saying a snake is one thing, and it's another......I'm currently emailing Adam as I type this, and this will be my last post until I have everything situated, and ready to post.

God stop whining, how can you ask for compensation when you tried to scam someone with the same snake that you got scammed with? Just because you couldn't get a deal done before members started noticing the inconsistencies, now you want him to pay you more? I think in all fairness Karma is a female dog and you reap what you sow.

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Originally Posted by BCBallPythons

THAT is a threat. Even if u say you are not making threats, it still is.

What are you going to do when you go to his house? Sit on his porch until you get your snakes? Go on a hunger strike?

First off hes not ignoring you because hes posting in this thread. And like ppl have stated, take it to the BOI

What would I do? I wouldnt have even bought that snake as a Sterling so I wouldnt be put in that position. But talk to your lawyer if you want. Im just saying, watch what YOU put out there because it doesnt all depend on what HE said, the law works both ways and ANY loophole his lawyer can find he will use. And your "threat/non-threat" would be the first thing I look at




Http://www.BCBallPythons.com
Http://www.facebook.com/bcballpythons

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He can't take anything to the BOI because he's a known scammer and has been banned for that, as well as creating fake accounts

seems like your a known scammer as well supertiger retics, unless u get this cleared up. lol

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Originally Posted by ilovevenom

seems like your a known scammer as well supertiger retics, unless u get this cleared up. lol

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That's coming from a guy that just sent me these 2 emails...smh

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...psc566aa1a.png

Sooo you aren't going to answer my question about why you sold the Sterling/Pewter if a Sterling fit your breeding program? I just don't understand that part, that's all.