Beginings of a new morph.

Those look like some great snakes! I agree with the clown like traits, but co-Dom! :-)

Nice [Black] Pastel.

They have been around for a while though...

Looks black back pastel to me. It looks like 1 of the pastel babies ( the one all the way to the left in the pic) got the black back part too. Im not seeing it in the others though. Hopefully that one on the left is a 0.1 so you can raise it up and breed it back to the sire.
On a side note: no need to be a grammar nazi dude. Were all friends here and no one is trying to pick on you. People are allowed to disagree with you. If you want your rights to freedom of speech taken away go live in North Korea lol :O
Whatever he is, that sire is cool looking. Nice find for c-list imo! :gj:

I'll probably go with the majority and say it's a pastel, however I've also been around long enough to remember that in the past I've also seen 'just another pastel' turn out to be the vanilla, or a 'dull pastel' to be a new line of fire, and even 'another line of pastel' to be the enchi.

I'll just nod my head and say nice snake, congratulations on the babies. :D

Ok, so join date 5/12, said I got snake a "few months ago", wait for qt, wait for snake to lay plus eggs to hatch, = more than a few months. Plus come on here and start hacking on people.....hmmmm.... "Who's that tromping on my bridge????"

Congrats on it being genetic.

You spelled a word wrong in your post title (and several other places since) and then called out a veteran member for a mistake? To be the best at something means being able to take criticism and learn from the people who have come before you. Obviously these guys are capable and experienced in IDing morphs. Take the thanks on proving it out and consider it a win.

Dang. Here the big guys are chasing new morph combos and importing possible new morphs to spend years trying to prove out, when all they have to do is hang out on craigslist and new morphs are falling out of the sky. Boy, are they gonna be angry ...

Congrats on the babies. But it looks like you have a lot to learn. It's not all about alleles.

I'm not much of an antagonist but anyone who is saying black pastel is wrong. They look nothing like the morph black pastel. They are too bright. Also the people saying that they are black back pastels I feel are missing something. The sire is both BLACK BACK and PASTEL looking. That's 2 different morphs. Perhaps the OP stumbled upon a "morph" that has both built into one snake. If it was indeed a 2 morph animal, the odds gods were very nice to him. They way I see it, if it is a black back pastel (2 morphs) there would be some normal black backs and some pastels in the clutch.

I think the clutch is awesome and to help you prove them to be something, get a black pastel and a pastel and breed the same "new morph" snake to both. That clutch should be fairly convincing on what this "morph" is.

Also how morphs happens is RANDOM CHANCE. The sire is very subtle if you don't know ball pythons. Perhaps the person who hatched him out in the first place thought he was a normal. Then the OP proves there is something going on. Technically you could breed 2 normals and get a banana. Very unlikely but possible.

I think some of us will agree that more breedings need to be done to learn what it is. Perhaps this thread is why some breeders don't release info on new "morphs" this early. All the back and forth banter and nay sayers.

I like the animal and I think there is something there. Good luck with this project. I hope it proves to be something special for ya! Cheers.


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by interloc

I'm not much of an antagonist but anyone who is saying black pastel is wrong. They look nothing like the morph black pastel. They are too bright. Also the people saying that they are black back pastels I feel are missing something. The sire is both BLACK BACK and PASTEL looking. That's 2 different morphs. Perhaps the OP stumbled upon a "morph" that has both built into one snake. If it was indeed a 2 morph animal, the odds gods were very nice to him. They way I see it, if it is a black back pastel (2 morphs) there would be some normal black backs and some pastels in the clutch.

I think the clutch is awesome and to help you prove them to be something, get a black pastel and a pastel and breed the same "new morph" snake to both. That clutch should be fairly convincing on what this "morph" is.

Also how morphs happens is RANDOM CHANCE. The sire is very subtle if you don't know ball pythons. Perhaps the person who hatched him out in the first place thought he was a normal. Then the OP proves there is something going on. Technically you could breed 2 normals and get a banana. Very unlikely but possible.

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1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel.
2) How does breeding 2 normals produce a dominate morph? I mean, sure you could pop out another mutation but what are the odds of the same morph randomly mutating twice?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John1982

1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel.
2) How does breeding 2 normals produce a dominate morph? I mean, sure you could pop out another mutation but what are the odds of the same morph randomly mutating twice?

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True. I read back through the thread and I think my brain melted black back into just black. So I read black pastel. Woops. :p. But take a look at coral glow and banana. Or butter and lesser. And the desert story. 2 different breeders got 2 different deserts and realized they had the same morph as each other. Morphs just happen sometimes. It's what keep us all looking for dinkers. Also look up the blue ghost if u haven't seen it. Just showed up out of he blue (pun intended). I say cut the OP some slack and see what he can do with the snakes.


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

Even if he is a "low" grade pastel, he (or one of the hatchlings) would be very welcome at my house! I could see some beautiful black pewter babies being made by them... ;)

Nice blackback pastel.

Certainly not a bad example, just a bad picture.

But likely not a new morph (or new line).

Just an established line from unknown origin (since it was CB)

Unless you manage to create some splendid new super from the blackback gene whcih while a nice dinking project is unlikely.

Didn't know what line my first pastel was, but that didn't make it a new morph/line.

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Originally Posted by John1982

1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel.

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See post #52...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by interloc

I think some of us will agree that more breedings need to be done to learn what it is. Perhaps this thread is why some breeders don't release info on new "morphs" this early. All the back and forth banter and nay sayers.

I like the animal and I think there is something there. Good luck with this project. I hope it proves to be something special for ya! Cheers.

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Well said. Don't take the criticism personally.

is it just me or has there been a TON of craziness around here lately surrounding all these so called "pastels or not pastels" haha this is crazy... its a pastel.. its NOT a new morph.. but by all means lets keep it up this thread is very entertaining haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zach_24_90

is it just me or has there been a TON of craziness around here lately surrounding all these so called "pastels or not pastels" haha this is crazy... its a pastel.. its NOT a new morph.. but by all means lets keep it up this thread is very entertaining haha

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Also been a lot of odd "is it worth it?" posts...

to each his own, ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.

to those of you who showed some support ill post some more pictures in a bit. It's mothers day people, take your wives out for breakfast and call your mommas!!!!

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.

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Keep hope alive! BTW, I know where you can get some Desert Females, should you ever want to start working on that new morph...

How's it a new morph, when you said yourself, you thought it was CB? New morph equals WC. No need to jack the prices up....$100 at any show and I could come home with a new morph like yours.

P.s. I wouldn't have a problem with this thread if it weren't for the way you conduct yourself. Not productive at all.

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Originally Posted by DemmBalls

No need to jack the prices up....

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I may be wrong, but I think that may have been sarcasm...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Keep hope alive! BTW, I know where you can get some Desert Females, should you ever want to start working on that new morph...

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haha i wish i could thank you like 100 times for that post lol this thread is getting like :eyepoppin:blahblah:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

to each his own, ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.

to those of you who showed some support ill post some more pictures in a bit. It's mothers day people, take your wives out for breakfast and call your mommas!!!!

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Dude seriously you have nothing new just something nice which is already proven. Which is great because you have produced healthy hatchlings :)

Not mothers day here though already been and gone lol, Good luck with your project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by interloc

I say cut the OP some slack and see what he can do with the snakes.

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That would be fine if the OP could accept what anyone else thinks and conduct themselves like an adult, not throw a tantrum because the majority sees something else.

For the OP, there are really only 3 things that will help you here:

1. Better attitude
2. Better pictures
3. Breeding it out

I think we all dream of the day we find a new morph off of craigslist :D

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Originally Posted by sho220

See post #52...

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I saw it, it looked like an alternate way of writing blackback, I can see how it might confuse some.

I would call him/them black back pastels, they aren't new morph. Definitely a great project that can really enhance other morphs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DemmBalls

How's it a new morph, when you said yourself, you thought it was CB? New morph equals WC.

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before you try to pass judgement on others you should do some research. napalm,lemon pastel and orange dream ring a bell? if not, they are all offspring of cb morphs, proven to be a new gene arising from an already established one.

p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.

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You know....you DON'T have to post here. You obviously have a problem with people giving you their opinions, so maybe you should just close out this thread, and move on. You were the first person to get defensive, people just told you what is completely obvious, it's a BB Pastel. Simple as that.

Trey

your on time out!! lmao

ok so i took advantage of the nice weather today and snapped some new photos.

sire
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0742.jpg

off-spring
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0747.jpg
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0751.jpg
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0753.jpg
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0754.jpg

set 2 of off-spring
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0758.jpg
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0760.jpg
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0763.jpg

I think this thread has become rather childish and unprofessional, and extremly ridiculous.

After reading all 8 pages so far...i dont see where the OP had an attitude UNTIL some of you started replying snide and acting like know-it-alls with your "opinions". Now, i know SOME of you are professionals and very experienced in this hobby...however, the vast majority here are amateurs like myself. Yes, everyone is entiled to there opinion but I (personally) dont think its fair for anyone to claim they can (positively) make a 100% correct ID from the horrible pics provided thus far.

OP, im lovin those babies! No matter what they really are.

C'mon guys, stop bickering. Its not that serious, this is supposed to be fun for all of us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

ok so i took advantage of the nice weather today and snapped some new photos.

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Killer looking babies...

Much better pics, thanks for sharing. :gj:

Beautiful snakes. Big congrats on finding a blackback pastel on Craigslist of all places. Especially if it was being sold as a normal. :gj:

They are adorable babies and I do like the looks of the father. Speaking from experience, so I hope you don't get offended, I'd put money on the fact that the father is a pastel and the lighter babies are pastels. That isn't a bad thing at all. You did stumble on a genetic black back pastel. Every one of the pastel babies looks to have inherited that gene. Genetic black backs will not always produce a continuous black back pattern in every baby it passes the gene on to but it should always be obvious which ones possess the gene.

There are a couple genetic black backs which were proven to be a separate co-dom morph and produce pretty cool super forms. Like the black velvet which produces the white lace in its super form. If I were you, I'd hold back a female and breed back to the father in 2 years to see if you have one of these morphs. A regular genetic black back doesn't have a super form.

Those babies will loose the yellow and pink coloration with each shed but the blushing should remain prominent everywhere except the head due to the fathers influence.







Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Beautiful snakes. Big congrats on finding a blackback pastel on Craigslist of all places. Especially if it was being sold as a normal. :gj:

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Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037

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Originally Posted by bubblz

Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037

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interesting, definitely worth perusing the possibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

They are adorable babies and I do like the looks of the father. Speaking from experience, so I hope you don't get offended, I'd put money on the fact that the father is a pastel and the lighter babies are pastels. That isn't a bad thing at all. You did stumble on a genetic black back pastel. Every one of the pastel babies looks to have inherited that gene. Genetic black backs will not always produce a continuous black back pattern in every baby it passes the gene on to but it should always be obvious which ones possess the gene.

There are a couple genetic black backs which were proven to be a separate co-dom morph and produce pretty cool super forms. Like the black velvet which produces the white lace in its super form. If I were you, I'd hold back a female and breed back to the father in 2 years to see if you have one of these morphs. A regular genetic black back doesn't have a super form.

Those babies will loose the yellow and pink coloration with each shed but the blushing should remain prominent everywhere except the head due to the fathers influence.







Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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when we got him we had an idea of what he might be, but then again we weren't 100%. still aren't actually, but there are some avenues still to explore and yes future breeding is in order. its possible that the sire is a super form, might be het g-stripe. the normal offspring has some odd belly tracks u never know.. fortunately all the offspring appear to be female when sexed. going to pair him with a spider this season to see =).

thanks for the constructive advise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.

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Dude, if you think you're not getting a fair shake on this Forum and are being picked on, I sincerely invite you to join the Bush League Breeders Club and re-post this thread over there.

If you think you're having issues on this board, try your attitude over there. They will drop 57 pounds of crap in your 3 pound "new morph" bag in about 5 seconds. But, let me know before you go over. I want to watch the fun :gj:

But don't worry, when they crush your googlies over there, in a much less famliy friendly manner than you've found on BP.net, you can always come back to the fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bubblz

Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037

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Good sleuthing Sherlock! I would say that you may be on to something there. That raises another question for me tho. Does that mean another "het" have a marker? A black back could be het genetic stripe? I love these questions. It's what keeps the whole hobby so interesting.


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

I don't think the fact that it's a het has anything to do with it. I just saw the post earlier today and thought of this thread. Because it's practically identical to the Ops male. Which points to what most people have already said (nicely or not) black back pastel. Genetic or not breed him again to another female to squash any doubt or questions.

I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is. :rolleyes:
Especially people talking about the importance of being forum 'veterans'. Can't be an expert without your internet ten-year.

Hope it proves to be something cool. If not, great looking snake anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soterios

I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is. :rolleyes:

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No one has said his snake and it's off spring aren't cool. But, he came on here and presented a Pastel Black Back as a new morph, which it clearly is not, and then got Signal 20 uptight when that fact was pointed out to him.

If you put onions on my hamburger and tell me it's cheese, I do not have to be an 'expert' to tell you it's wrong.

"ten-year."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

"ten-year."

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Can't help that I didn't notice an auto correct for the word tenure.

The fact that you got a snake off of cl and proved it out to be genetic without knowing what it is is aeesome, congrats. But that doesny change the fact that it looks like a million (sarcastly) other pastels we've seen, with or without the BB. Ftom the pictures you have shown of the one clutch you have prodiced, the "BB" and the "pastel", obviously arent genetic together, and you just got lucky with the odds gods. With that being said, until we see something that doesnt look exactly like a ton of other snakes that we know exactly what they are, alot of peoples minds wont change from the black back pastel idea.

Whether or not were right, congrats on some nice looking babies. I personally wouldnt mind having the 4th one pictured in the first set of hatchling pics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by interloc

Good sleuthing Sherlock! I would say that you may be on to something there. That raises another question for me tho. Does that mean another "het" have a marker? A black back could be het genetic stripe? I love these questions. It's what keeps the whole hobby so interesting.


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

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amen to that!! research, research never ends but makes you just a bit more interested. that would be nice to of have stumbled across a genetic black back het g-stripe without knowing it.

found this on the web if interested.
http://www.australianaddiction.com/BallGS.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soterios

I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is. :rolleyes:

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thank you, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like. i put the time, effort and money into proving what it was. like countless of other people who take on dinkerer's ( just made that word up also by the way) hope to do. to me until proven other wise, by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.

the point of the original post was for some constructive input, not for the "experts" to rip my snake or me apart with comments like, low grade pastel etc..ect.., so of course im gonna go on the defensive!

it doesn't matter what it is, they are nice snakes an will produce and if it is the new holy grail hopefully the haters have 10 grand to spend, if not it keeps me entertained lol..

"conforming to the views of the masses makes you a follower, thinking outside the box makes you an innovator." ( and made that up also)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

thank you, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like. i put the time, effort and money into proving what it was. like countless of other people who take on dinkerer's ( just made that word up also by the way) hope to do. to me until proven other wise, by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.

the point of the original post was for some constructive input, not for the "experts" to rip my snake or me apart with comments like, low grade pastel etc..ect.., so of course im gonna go on the defensive!

it doesn't matter what it is, they are nice snakes an will produce and if it is the new holy grail hopefully the haters have 10 grand to spend, if not it keeps me entertained lol..

"conforming to the views of the masses makes you a follower, thinking outside the box makes you an innovator." ( and made that up also)

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Pure gold in this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cmack91

I personally wouldnt mind having the 4th one pictured in the first set of hatchling pics.

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the 4th (bottom) one is a normal =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCC MORPHS

the 4th (bottom) one is a normal =)

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Maybe I miss cointed, the fifth pic down.