Who's Making Money Breeding Ball Pythons?

Yep, it's money lost right now. That's why I didn't vote. I guess if I vote, it'll be the "I'm losing money, but hope to make money in the near future."

Just noticed, though, that it says I already voted... don't remember voting at all on it.. I didn't click the "vote" button.. oh well.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Brandon, how does that work? I asked two different accountants about that and they shot the idea down.

I believe I asked something along the lines of "can I claim a certain amount of $$ per rat, based off of what I would have paid to someone else".

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No offense to anyone here, but if you take tax advice of someone on a reptile forum over the advice of a CPA, you're only asking for trouble.

I've noticed that a lot of people in this industry like to dance around the tax laws, doing such things as not reporting cash based sales. This can lead to a lot of problems for you down the line.

I recommend finding an accountant you trust and then take their advice on what you can and cannot claim. If a CPA misleads you, they can be held legally responsible. A member on this forum misleading you cannot.

No offense taken, but I have found many CPAs that do not check into what you can and can't claim as a business expense. If it cost you to feed an animal that makes you money, it is a business expense. Electricity to run your heaters and cooling in the summer costs money above what it normally would. Mileage to and from expos, buying mice, picking up/ dropping off shipments, ect. My girlfriend had her taxes done for 2011 and the "CPA" entered $.32 per mile for work related travel. The correct rate at that time was $.52 per mile. Not all of them know exactly what you can and can't deduct so they choose not to do it. I've been using the same accountant for 20 years and she knows her stuff. If you sit back and just let it go you could be throwing your money away.

Thanks for making the post, Slim :gj:!

I haven't voted because I haven't bred any of my snakes yet! As of right now, they're all just growing and eating my money :D. However, since I have mostly girls, their prices are probably going to be higher than what I initially spent on them... I got some sweet deals on a few of them, and if I sold them even today, I could EASILY get my money back...

As I'm typing this reply, there are a total of 101 votes.

I consider a "goal" to be at least "I'm breaking even across the board". Everything from that point and above are positive outcomes for breeding in my opinion.

There are 50 votes for the positive side from "breaking even" to being able to profit from breeding. That leaves 51 people who are losing money in this.

For the people who wish they could make a profit, I'm curious to know why you're losing money :confused:. Poor choices? Bad luck?

For the people who don't care because it's a hobby, why are you guys losing money? Are you guys just holding back too many animals? I'm curious.

Personally, if you're producing what you like, and you're having fun hatching out baby ball pythons, that's a win even if you're not making money! I envy all of you who have successfully hatched even 1 baby ball python! That's something I've been dreaming about for a couple years now :D. I would pay a lot more money than I have to be able to have that feeling... To produce something that you love, or something that impresses you would just be icing on the cake..

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Thanks for making the post, Slim :gj:!

I haven't voted because I haven't bred any of my snakes yet! As of right now, they're all just growing and eating my money :D. However, since I have mostly girls, their prices are probably going to be higher than what I initially spent on them... I got some sweet deals on a few of them, and if I sold them even today, I could EASILY get my money back...

As I'm typing this reply, there are a total of 101 votes.

I consider a "goal" to be at least "I'm breaking even across the board". Everything from that point and above are positive outcomes for breeding in my opinion.

There are 50 votes for the positive side from "breaking even" to being able to profit from breeding. That leaves 51 people who are losing money in this.

For the people who wish they could make a profit, I'm curious to know why you're losing money :confused:. Poor choices? Bad luck?

For the people who don't care because it's a hobby, why are you guys losing money? Are you guys just holding back too many animals? I'm curious.

Personally, if you're producing what you like, and you're having fun hatching out baby ball pythons, that's a win even if you're not making money! I envy all of you who have successfully hatched even 1 baby ball python! That's something I've been dreaming about for a couple years now :D. I would pay a lot more money than I have to be able to have that feeling... To produce something that you love, or something that impresses you would just be icing on the cake..

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I voted for the last option, but only because we are nearing our second year of breeding... still very new and fresh to this hobby, and too soon to make any sort of real money. Sure we've sold hatchlings, but still very much in the red for money put in to get where we are currently. Lots of promise, but too soon to say whether we are doing things correctly!

To supplement the hobby, I have a couple other projects going... We are investign in building a couple more rat racks - so that we are not only producing just enough rats for what we have, but a surplus to supply the pet store down the road. Also starting up a couple cockroach colonies, to sell as feeders, as there are no other places for invert feeders in our area. Working at Petco for 5 years before where I am at now, I can appreciate how much money is made on crickets alone. Knowing that there is nobody else in the area that has crickets other than petco/petsmart, and especially nobody with cockroaches, which IMO are better for a number of reasons... there is some potential for a few extra $$$ to be made. Low cost/maintenance, and a couple extra dollars here and there never hurts.

Thanks for the reply Anatopism. I'm looking for a more detailed answer of how you're losing money. Was it the morphs you bought? Rodent and housing cost?

What about everyone else? Remember that buying snakes doesn't necessarily mean you're in the red. The electric bill, rodent costs, potential vet bills, and time are the only real losses. As mentioned above, you must take into consideration the value of your snakes! If you have females, you can probably get more than you paid for when you bought em if they're mature enough!

I bought my enchi for $550. She's over 400 grams. She's NFS, but I'm sure if I said I would sell her to you for $700, at least ONE of you will want her! That's more than I put into feeding her up until today! The bigger she is, the easier I can get that price... Eventually I could sell her for 2x what I paid for her...

Since I consider breeding to be a future hobby, none of those things really matter to me. My sister buys so many toys for her dog... She gets so many fancy decorations for her fish, and she spends extra money to get the best supplies.... She buys quality food for her pets... She doesn't stop to think "wow i lost so much money paying for my pets!" because they bring her joy. Well ball pythons bring me so much joy! As long as I can afford to take care of them and give them great care, I will!

Whoever is losing money, whether it bothers you or not, could you post why/how you're losing money?

I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby. If this is just a hobby to you then there probably wasn't that drive to make a profit on your investment like someone who's goal was to do this as a supplemental or primary income. You would not do things the same between these two scenarios. If it is simply a hobby then you would not be concerned with obtaining a DBA/business name, marketing strategy, advertisement, etc. And your initial purchase of snakes to be potential breeders would not be based on what morphs are going to give you the best odds at seeing a return on investment. If you really set out to do this as a career then there are all sorts of things you would do differently than a casual hobbiest. So from this poll it's difficult to get a true sense of the results. You would have to know everyones initial intentions and goals when they started this.

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Originally Posted by versicolor

I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby.

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Please feel free to post a better poll :gj:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Please feel free to post a better poll :gj:

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I didn't mean to criticize the poll. Sorry if it seemed that way, I appreciate you putting it up. I was just making an observation and sharing it. No offense intended.

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Originally Posted by versicolor

I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby. If this is just a hobby to you then there probably wasn't that drive to make a profit on your investment like someone who's goal was to do this as a supplemental or primary income. You would not do things the same between these two scenarios. If it is simply a hobby then you would not be concerned with obtaining a DBA/business name, marketing strategy, advertisement, etc. And your initial purchase of snakes to be potential breeders would not be based on what morphs are going to give you the best odds at seeing a return on investment. If you really set out to do this as a career then there are all sorts of things you would do differently than a casual hobbiest. So from this poll it's difficult to get a true sense of the results. You would have to know everyones initial intentions and goals when they started this.

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Differentiating the hobby breeders is already done in this poll. If you're making money then who cares if its hobby or business? If you're not making money, then it matters. Hence the last 2 options. You're either losing money and you don't care because it's your hobby, or you're losing money and you are disappointed because your intention was to make money. Of course some people who voted that option are people who say NEXT season they will make money.... I think that aspect is tipping the scales.... Takes time to make money lol. You have to spend it to earn it.... Of course you think you're in the red right now.. You're setting yourself up for success.

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Originally Posted by Lair of Dragons

Now if I would have sold what I kept I would have came out ahead but what fun is that.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

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lmao!!!!! PRICELESS!!!!!

I never did it for money! To many flippers out here that want things for cheap, when I spent months saving checks to pay for an animal. :mad: Over all Ive made $200 in this game and im cool with it:cool:

I wish I was making money doing this. I'm a long way from that right now.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Thanks for the reply Anatopism. I'm looking for a more detailed answer of how you're losing money. Was it the morphs you bought? Rodent and housing cost?

What about everyone else? Remember that buying snakes doesn't necessarily mean you're in the red. The electric bill, rodent costs, potential vet bills, and time are the only real losses. As mentioned above, you must take into consideration the value of your snakes! If you have females, you can probably get more than you paid for when you bought em if they're mature enough!

I bought my enchi for $550. She's over 400 grams. She's NFS, but I'm sure if I said I would sell her to you for $700, at least ONE of you will want her! That's more than I put into feeding her up until today! The bigger she is, the easier I can get that price... Eventually I could sell her for 2x what I paid for her...

Since I consider breeding to be a future hobby, none of those things really matter to me. My sister buys so many toys for her dog... She gets so many fancy decorations for her fish, and she spends extra money to get the best supplies.... She buys quality food for her pets... She doesn't stop to think "wow i lost so much money paying for my pets!" because they bring her joy. Well ball pythons bring me so much joy! As long as I can afford to take care of them and give them great care, I will!

Whoever is losing money, whether it bothers you or not, could you post why/how you're losing money?

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I'm sorry h00blah, I missed your response previously.


We are making money off of our animals, but we've not had enough clutches yet to outweigh the startup costs. That's not to say I don't expect to get there, it's just not yet. We only just hatched our first combo, and have a couple more higher dollar clutches on the way... but we also will focus more on holding back some animals, and any animals sold will go towards upgrading to more morphs, and fewer normals, or necessary equipment.

My answer has also slipped a little more into the red, as we are having a massive and mysterious rat die off, what will cost us quite a bit to recover from. Until I start making more money off of snakes than I am putting into them (feeding, electricity, housing, equipment, etc) I will consider myself in the red. Yes it is an investment, but we are not yet in the 'making profit' stage.

I'm not the one to consider future potential as current gains--- I feel that considering future potential as money gained now, is like going out and buying a computer with a credit card, figuring you'll pay it off with subsequent paychecks, only to have things like your car break down, or you break your finger and desperately need that money for the hospital. Money in my pocket is money in my pocket, so until we are making more than we are spending per week or per month on average, I consider our situation to be in the red.

As this is a hobby we do in fact plan on profiting from, I do not consider our current animals' dollar amounts. They are all valuable to the project, so while one morph male may be $1000, this is not spendable money unless we are planning on getting out of the hobby, or that specific project. Until we produce a better snake to replace the first and assuming we aren't keeping the snake as at pet (our Mojave girl is one that isn't going anywhere ever), the only money considered is that which exceeds the costs going in to maintain the snakes each month.

I've told my self from the beginning that I want to make enough to pay for the hobby. Of course I'm in the hole now as I havn't produced anything yet. I have some cool stuff though and am looking at about 6-8 clutches next season. Hopefully I will take a dent out of my snake/rack costs and help with feeder bills for the next season. Currently I have the males that I want including my girfriends butter het hypo and am only looking for females. I just picked up a proven pastel female and hope to grab decent size het pied or two.

A little extra wouldn't be bad though. =p

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

As this is a hobby we do in fact plan on profiting from, I do not consider our current animals' dollar amounts. They are all valuable to the project, so while one morph male may be $1000, this is not spendable money unless we are planning on getting out of the hobby, or that specific project. Until we produce a better snake to replace the first and assuming we aren't keeping the snake as at pet (our Mojave girl is one that isn't going anywhere ever), the only money considered is that which exceeds the costs going in to maintain the snakes each month.

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This is true. Though my enchi gal's value will probably go up in the next few years, she is probably never going to leave my side :D:D

Same goes with my first snake which is a normal female :gj:. She will forever be my baby, and the cost of her and her maintenance will be considered an expense :P