People Killing snakes

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Animals are animals just because one is penned its entire life and one isnt means nothing.

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When we lock people into closets for their lives it is called abuse. There is a difference between being penned up and moving around freely. Ask any animal behavior specialist about stereotypies.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

How in the hell do you raise an animal for food. Animals are animals just because one is penned its entire life and one isnt means nothing. And you obviouslly are getting your views in the way of your knowledge cause there is a huge market for rattlesnake meat and not to mention alot goes to homeless shelters and churches.

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Just like you raise any other animal except these ones are mostly penned up in cages. Maybe there is a huge market for it in areas of huge populations of rattlesnakes because they are an easy target. I still dont think its right to kill thousands of animals even if it does feed shelters or churches.

Lol. Peta is looking for members. They may even have a forum

You do realize peta kills a ton of animals also?

and Im sure you will find so many other people on here who support the round ups...

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Look if the rattler is being eaten and used then theres no problem with it. We are talking about an abundant supply of a resource.

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I understand that some animals need population control.
And I also understand that humans sometimes have to be the 'predator' to control these animals. (Like the deer you stated. Most of their natural predators no longer live in the area)

However, I think the main topic of the OP was to state how inhumane rattlesnake roundups are. Whether or not there is over population, the majority of these snakes are not used for food. They're killed out of entertainment and suffer greatly before death.
Even you couldn't condone a rattler to having it's mouth sewn shut without anesthesia and starving to death because it couldn't open it's mouth. Or stuffing it in a freezer as a form of sedation. How about charging a price for the general public to take pictures with these snakes?
These sort of roundups exploit these animals for entertainment and money. Not for the belief of population control. If it were for strictly population control, these animals would be disposed of quickly and efficiently.

The deer you work with are killed swiftly and quickly correct? You don't prolong suffering?
I'm sure you don't break their legs to prevent kicking so you can take some glorified photos of yourself riding on top of it.

That is why the majority of people protest rattlesnake roundups....Not the fact they're being killed due to overpopulation...


Sidenote: PETA kills more animals than they save. They have a 90+% euthanasia rate of the animals they take in. Their main goal is to separate animals from humans... Not actual welfare

I believe that the roundups should be allowed to take place in a regulated manner. However, in their current form, they are simply cruel. Hunting can be an interesting and fun sport. However there is a line between fun and sadistic. If someone's nailing the mouth of a deer shut and cutting off its legs so that they can take pictures of their friends riding it, then they have crossed that line. Same thing, if people sew a snake's mouth shut and put it in a freezer, then take pictures of themselves and their friends waving it around, they too have crossed that line. It sickens me that humans would even think to do something like this to something lesser than them.

I figured if I'm going to say anything about the TV show I should watch and episode and so I did. it really wasn't as bad I thought it was going to be. I saw episode 3 and it just seemed dumb. Being in a sleeping bag with snakes doesn't take any talent. The show seemed more about the pissing contest between the good ol' boys than it did about killing snakes.

I think it is the two parts of the enterprise that amount to it being wrong.

I don't have a problem with people keeping animals for entertainment and education. Zoos, sea world, etc keep animals and use them for entertainment, but also education. Even Gator Boys do shows, but these places do not kill the animal and generally try to treat the animals very well. They don't harm the animals. Besides, they're subject to certain ethics laws too.

The second part is the killing. If you want to hunt, then kill it humanely and eat it. I have no problem with that either.

But apple2 summarized very well. It is the combination of collection and entertainment then death that is problematic. It gets sadistic.

I'm not sure, but are the rattlesnake shows and festivals subject to animal laws?

100000000000% agree that inhumane methods of killing any animal is horrible and needs to be stopped. Any animal that is hunted or killed should be done so the quickest way possible. Those of us who hunt need to practice this. I am an avid bowhunter and have been bow hunting for 30 years starting at the ripe age of 8. Well actually shooting since 8. Hunting with a bow since 12. I teach a bow hunting clinic once a month basically basically working on technique and shot placement. And please dont get me wrong. I wasnt trying to say i condone the way these rattlers are being killed. I also am not gonna put all people in the round ups under the same srutiny. Not all do it the way you see on tv. Afterall there are tv shows that say reptile owners release pythons in the glades and we know that doesnt speak for all of us so dont believe everything you see on tv

Position of The American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists
http://www.asih.org/files/positionpaper.pdf

ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS. Apart from the negative aspects of rattlesnake roundups on the
populations of both snakes and non-target species and their habitats, strong ethical reasons exist
to oppose the practice of rattlesnake roundups. Traditional roundups often include large
enclosures or pits in which snakes are maintained at high densities for extended periods and are
subjected to continual provocation, encouraging them to rattle and strike. Inflated balloons are displayed before captive rattlesnakes to provoke a strike to burst the balloon for the
entertainment of onlookers. Individuals are kicked, burned with cigarettes, have their rattles
removed while still alive and funneled full of liquor. Rattlesnakes may be shipped from roundup
to roundup in wooden crates without food or water, and some individuals are crushed to death or
die of overheating and dehydration during transport. Snakes are handled roughly and are
decapitated and butchered in large numbers in front of an audience, including small children, as
entertainment. It is hard to imagine subjecting any other vertebrate animal to such thoughtless
and inhumane treatment. Indeed, as scientists we are subject to requirements that our study
animals be treated humanely, and it is reasonable to expect similar treatment by others.

That is their position on the inhumane gathering and i totally agree. Again im not arguing or supporting inhumane treatment of aby animal. Good read bybthe way

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I figured if I'm going to say anything about the TV show I should watch and episode and so I did. it really wasn't as bad I thought it was going to be.

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The actual show is relatively tame due to being a public channel.
However, there are a lot of behind the scenes video taken of the same group in the show that partake in the inhumane treatment of the snakes. There's a bunch on youtube.

Heh,

Ok, so I've been in attendance to the round ups in the past, and yeah its all a show and party and celebrates the death of the snakes. Am I for it? No, no where near!

Here's some interesting information for this year . . . Texas has been in one of the worst recorded droughts in the last century, It's even worse off in West Texas, where numerous amounts of these snakes come from before being brought to the round up. Every year the committee (JC Committee) pays out money per pound of snake you bring it. The cost goes up and down as needed, however, because of the lower numbers last year (They should be happy right? After all the original goal was to lower the amount of potentially dangerous snakes in the immediate area) they increased they payout to a record high reaching double digits for the first time in years and years per pound. . . What does that mean?

It means that they have over harvested the amount of snakes that can be taken from a single place, and are now encouraging people to extend their current range of searching and capturing. Is it regulated as some people have suggested, not at all. There is no limits. In fact, there are contest to see who can bring in the most pounds of snake, and a contest to see who can bag the biggest. This drives people to search out snakes from all over the state, and even from other states, in order to bring them to the festival.

To capture the snakes, these people will use inhumane use of poison sprayers filled with Gasoline, and spray them into the hides and rocks where these snakes are located. They then use tongs to grab the snakes and throw them in trash cans. Do they ID the snakes? Nope! I photographed numerous species in their snake pits that they obviously had no care far species wise. Were their protected species? no . . . I could not find any that were actually protected. Had I been able to photograph one protected species during my survey of their pits, I would've had a strong foot for the article I was part of trying to get it stopped back in 2006. . .

All in all, there will always be support for these events. For every 1 person that loves rattlesnakes, there are probably 100 that hate them. The odds are stacked against us to be able to stop such events from occurring, at least when they are backed up by such a powerful organization such as the Jacee's. There has been success in shutting them down in Alabama, but the sweet water round up is the largest in the US currently.

Is it a profit game? probably, but its hard for me to grasp it. I'll end with this - While I was at the event I found a bright golden Rattle Snake in the pit. It was absolutely stunning in both pattern, coloration, and health. I contacted one of the leaders of the events and said I'd like to pay double for that snake what you paid in its weight so I can let its gene flow live on. The works laughed at the concept and informed me these snakes were not for sale . . . alive.

None the less, these round ups are forcing populations into a bottleneck event that will severely impact that stability and survivability of the species. The more we take from the top in a whole, the less genetic variation the species will have to evolve from. This will create a weaker species, and ultimately lead to local extinction. . . if there was conservation behind the madness, maybe introducing new genetics to every den they know if and not draining it all the way, it may have some ground to stand on. But for all it does wrong, it's impossible for someone like me to see anything done right.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4125/5...4a01e70b_z.jpg

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Originally Posted by kyser/wrx

Rattlers should be controled some way. I dont belive they should do it the way they are doing it but where i live in texas rattlers always end up in my back yard where my kids play sooo

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They were here long before you, technically you are invading their land. Just my $.02.

I know several roundups have been shut down and now have been reintroduced as festivals. If it hurts the local population for example like the Eastern Diamondback in some areas then I am against it. I personally would not do it nor kill an animal if I didn't absolutely have to. I am a catch and release guy myself.

I am not saying what everyone does it wrong, to each his own. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect them all to a degree. :gj:

Urban Jungle Radio is involved with a massive effort to shut down Sweetwater. They've got some pretty heavy hitters on their side.

I suggest you look them up on Facebook for the latest.

Gale