Help... BP has her right eye is bulging

Just to add, people don't always read the whole post. So yes I think it's important to get that in there quickly after your post of the over the phone diagnoses was given. Most people looking up symptoms like this are going to get to the "diagnoses" part and then stop reading.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

I am very new to ball pythons. I actually will not get my first one for another week. I have been reading up on all of the posts to gain some knowledge. Thank you for sharing your experience, it has actually taught me a lot! I hope all goes well.

Is there any chance her head got pinched in the tub while opening or closing? I have a hard time believing that eight days later this would happen if he removed the actual eye cap. I would think that would have caused problems within hours possibly a day later but not eight. I agree soaking for five hours is not good but I also wouldn't think that caused this either. I have had snakes not BP's but red tailed boas soak in their water bowl for days and never seen anything like this happen I think there is another problem but I have no idea what it would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

The pictures I posted were taken with a hour today when we woke up. Last night we handled her as we normally do and her eyes appeared to be fine. It was 8 days ago we had him "remove er eye caps". I put that in quotes because at this point, I dont know what was done. We have checked her eyes right after he did that and several times during the week and everything seemed fine, including last night. I just dont understand how this happened overnight and got so bad. Yes she was soaking in water, but only part of her body was in water. How can her eyes just being in a very humid enclousure cause this. And if her eyes were injured, why did it take 8 days to start seeing any change?

---

At this point with out being to actually examine your snake,people are just making educated guesses on what is going on.
The main thing now is to get to a vet asap (Tuesday) and to prevent further injury while waiting.
Things you can do right now- create a sterile dustless setting, remove any rough surfaces (natural hides, fake rock bowls) that could scratch those eyes. Make sure your temps and humidity are good.

Hey aimin4strz.. Where are you located? You mentioned a vet in Chicago? Have you checked the reptile vet list on this forum? There may be one closer to you. I have one in Crest Hill right down the road from me.

Ok... Let's start from the beginning...
Myself (The Wife) have had snakes in the past... So I am the exp. one... I know what eye caps look like... She retained her eye caps through 4 sheds and they were so crinkley to the point that it was affected her ability to want to eat... So I made the decision after speaking to many other educated people who also concurred that I was going to look into options for removal, before that, I tried soaking then rubbing lightly, I tried tape, I tried just short of everything I could. In the end, she still had them and it was because I was a horrible pet owner and let them stay on too long... MY BAD (I apologize) I determined I wasn't going to let it go one any further worring about perm. damage, so I started contacting vets in the area... again no one was interested in helping because they said they didn't feel confident doing it... I'm not going to let a vet touch any animal I own unless they know what they are doing... so I decided to try the convention in hopes that I would find someone with more exp. and I did... he was able to help her... however, in the process more harm was done unintentionally... When he removed them he created abrasions on the lower portions right below her lid... we were unaware of this due to the lid keeping the situation contained... We were advised that when it was time for her to shed again that we should soak her to ensure we didn't have the same problem again... I completely agreed... I chose to soak her overnight as we had done in the past with no complications (mind you there is NO STUDIES that state this is something that should not be done!) When I woke up this morning early I went to check on her and change out her water and that is when I noticed the damage... I immediately rinsed the area well and started evaluating the cause... knowing deep down inside what caused the problem but was really hoping it was something else, I found myself in the same situation many other EXPIERENCED Herp owners have found themselves in. I continued to seek further information to correct the situation due to the fact that well I know enough I'm not a doctor! Owning an animal is about doing research (which is only other peoples opinions) and determining the best way you see fit to raise your pet. So now, I have a fabulous member of my family that is going through something horrible and I am doing my best to do everything in my power to make sure she has the best care and is as comfortable as she can be...

I appreciate all the help that everyone has provided! In my exp, being a good reptile owner always ends up taking a little but of information from some and different information from others... some people say low humid, some people say high humid, some people say leave the eye caps on, most say don't, some people say don't feed them in their original tank, some say do... in the end there just isn't enough statistics either way for any of us to win what this has turned in to... So again, I really appreciate the help that you all have provided... the timing was wrong and my husband took offense to some comments that in another time might have been blown off... but consider the timing... Please understand I want the best for Pandora, she is my baby and I will be up all night watching her because I can't do without her...

Sorry for any frustration this has caused... Thank you again!

Alicia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Ok... Let's start from the beginning...
Myself (The Wife) have had snakes in the past... So I am the exp. one... I know what eye caps look like... She retained her eye caps through 4 sheds and they were so crinkley to the point that it was affected her ability to want to eat... So I made the decision after speaking to many other educated people who also concurred that I was going to look into options for removal, before that, I tried soaking then rubbing lightly, I tried tape, I tried just short of everything I could. In the end, she still had them and it was because I was a horrible pet owner and let them stay on too long... MY BAD (I apologize) I determined I wasn't going to let it go one any further worring about perm. damage, so I started contacting vets in the area... again no one was interested in helping because they said they didn't feel confident doing it... I'm not going to let a vet touch any animal I own unless they know what they are doing... so I decided to try the convention in hopes that I would find someone with more exp. and I did... he was able to help her... however, in the process more harm was done unintentionally... When he removed them he created abrasions on the lower portions right below her lid... we were unaware of this due to the lid keeping the situation contained... We were advised that when it was time for her to shed again that we should soak her to ensure we didn't have the same problem again... I completely agreed... I chose to soak her overnight as we had done in the past with no complications (mind you there is NO STUDIES that state this is something that should not be done!) When I woke up this morning early I went to check on her and change out her water and that is when I noticed the damage... I immediately rinsed the area well and started evaluating the cause... knowing deep down inside what caused the problem but was really hoping it was something else, I found myself in the same situation many other EXPIERENCED Herp owners have found themselves in. I continued to seek further information to correct the situation due to the fact that well I know enough I'm not a doctor! Owning an animal is about doing research (which is only other peoples opinions) and determining the best way you see fit to raise your pet. So now, I have a fabulous member of my family that is going through something horrible and I am doing my best to do everything in my power to make sure she has the best care and is as comfortable as she can be...

I appreciate all the help that everyone has provided! In my exp, being a good reptile owner always ends up taking a little but of information from some and different information from others... some people say low humid, some people say high humid, some people say leave the eye caps on, most say don't, some people say don't feed them in their original tank, some say do... in the end there just isn't enough statistics either way for any of us to win what this has turned in to... So again, I really appreciate the help that you all have provided... the timing was wrong and my husband took offense to some comments that in another time might have been blown off... but consider the timing... Please understand I want the best for Pandora, she is my baby and I will be up all night watching her because I can't do without her...

Sorry for any frustration this has caused... Thank you again!

Alicia

---

You can debate wether or not soaking a snake before shed is helpful or harmful, but I don't think anyone would say that leaving a snake soaking unattended over night is a good idea.

I truly hope that your snake gets better and no lasting damage has been done. I know that if this was happening to one of my snakes I would be besides myself at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You can debate wether or not soaking a snake before shed is helpful or harmful, but I don't think anyone would say that leaving a snake soaking unattended over night is a good idea.

I truly hope that your snake gets better and no lasting damage has been done. I know that if this was happening to one of my snakes I would be besides myself at this point.

---

The problem with it is... is that many people told us that would be fine... and the previous post had a point... snakes soak in their water bowl for days provided it is big enough... so this is where we find ourselves in a difference of opinion... no offense to either of us... but everyone does it differently... I really do hope she gets better but I just want people to know there is no "Right" way.... we all do it our own way... but I really appreciate everything that has been said... I hope she gets better soon as well

He was talking about Boas though. i've never seen a ball python soak for more than 10 minutes at a time. I agree that there is no absolute right or wrong way to keep these animals, you just have to find what works for you.

Soaking prior to a shed will actually cause a bad shed. It strips away the necessary oils between the old skin and the new skin which are needed to help the old skin come off. To ensure a good shed, you simply need to raise the humidity.

The humidity inside the enclosure should be kept about 60% at ALL times. 50% is really too low. That is the normal room humidity that humans are comfortable at. BPs spend most of their lives underground in old rodent burrows or termite mounds where it is rather humid.. Then raise it to between 65% and 75% during the week of shed or the moment the snake goes into blue. The belly turns pink and the eyes are dull, etc..

Make sure you have a good hygrometer to measure the humidity. The digital Accurite weather station with probe from Walmart which only costs about $13 is what we recommend to monitor your hot side, cool side/ambient, and humidity all at the same time. If you're using a glass aquarium as an enclosure, completely seal off the screen top except for about 2 inches along the back for ventilation. This holds in heat and humidity. You can use foil or wax paper just taped down along the edges of the lid to accomplish this.

If the snake has a bad shed, then you can soak, or use the wet pillow case method but overnight is a bit excessive.

For actual stuck eyecaps, simply raising the humidity (no soaking at all) works. Soaking strips away the oils remember, so it does more harm than good.. In extreme cases such as the one you were having, you would provide the snake with a humid hide box.

Get a plastic storage box or tub with a lid that fits on the hot side of the enclosure. Cut a good size hole in one side. Put a couple inches of reptile grade cypress mulch bedding (holds moisture very well and will not mold) or moss, or a combination of the 2, and moisten it but not dripping wet. Put it in the hot side of the enclosure during the week of shed.

For badly stuck eye caps, along with raising humidity and adding the humid hide, you can use a dab of regular bacitracin or regular neosporin ointment (no painkiller or other additives) on each eye daily during the week of shed.

If you follow these steps it is guaranteed the snake will have a complete shed, eyecaps and all, no matter what the past issues have been.


Now I know this info is too little too late, but now you know exactly what to do for future reference..

This thread caught my attention bc it was such a unique issue that you're dealing with and I really hope your snake pulls through ok. I can imagine you're beside yourself with worry, as I know I would be if it were one of my snakes.

I just wanted to send you some well wishes and let you know that my thoughts are with your BP.

Post an update with her process. All the best....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Soaking prior to a shed will actually cause a bad shed. It strips away the necessary oils between the old skin and the new skin which are needed to help the old skin come off. To ensure a good shed, you simply need to raise the humidity.

The humidity inside the enclosure should be kept about 60% at ALL times. 50% is really too low. That is the normal room humidity that humans are comfortable at. BPs spend most of their lives underground in old rodent burrows or termite mounds where it is rather humid.. Then raise it to between 65% and 75% during the week of shed or the moment the snake goes into blue. The belly turns pink and the eyes are dull, etc..

Make sure you have a good hygrometer to measure the humidity. The digital Accurite weather station with probe from Walmart which only costs about $13 is what we recommend to monitor your hot side, cool side/ambient, and humidity all at the same time. If you're using a glass aquarium as an enclosure, completely seal off the screen top except for about 2 inches along the back for ventilation. This holds in heat and humidity. You can use foil or wax paper just taped down along the edges of the lid to accomplish this.

If the snake has a bad shed, then you can soak, or use the wet pillow case method but overnight is a bit excessive.

For actual stuck eyecaps, simply raising the humidity (no soaking at all) works. Soaking strips away the oils remember, so it does more harm than good.. In extreme cases such as the one you were having, you would provide the snake with a humid hide box.

Get a plastic storage box or tub with a lid that fits on the hot side of the enclosure. Cut a good size hole in one side. Put a couple inches of reptile grade cypress mulch bedding (holds moisture very well and will not mold) or moss, or a combination of the 2, and moisten it but not dripping wet. Put it in the hot side of the enclosure during the week of shed.

For badly stuck eye caps, along with raising humidity and adding the humid hide, you can use a dab of regular bacitracin or regular neosporin ointment (no painkiller or other additives) on each eye daily during the week of shed.

If you follow these steps it is guaranteed the snake will have a complete shed, eyecaps and all, no matter what the past issues have been.


Now I know this info is too little too late, but now you know exactly what to do for future reference..

---

I agree with most of what your saying... and I'm not saying that you are wrong... but I have very educated people that would disagree with you on parts... thats where it comes down to each person doing it differently... I've been told by multiple people you never want to use any type of topical ointment because of absorption and breathing issues through the lens... Again, I'm not saying your wrong... but it comes down to me taking little bits of advice and going with what my gut says... I appreciate your information though! Thank you We will consider all you said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Soaking prior to a shed will actually cause a bad shed. It strips away the necessary oils between the old skin and the new skin which are needed to help the old skin come off. To ensure a good shed, you simply need to raise the humidity.

The humidity inside the enclosure should be kept about 60% at ALL times. 50% is really too low. That is the normal room humidity that humans are comfortable at. BPs spend most of their lives underground in old rodent burrows or termite mounds where it is rather humid.. Then raise it to between 65% and 75% during the week of shed or the moment the snake goes into blue. The belly turns pink and the eyes are dull, etc..

Make sure you have a good hygrometer to measure the humidity. The digital Accurite weather station with probe from Walmart which only costs about $13 is what we recommend to monitor your hot side, cool side/ambient, and humidity all at the same time. If you're using a glass aquarium as an enclosure, completely seal off the screen top except for about 2 inches along the back for ventilation. This holds in heat and humidity. You can use foil or wax paper just taped down along the edges of the lid to accomplish this.

If the snake has a bad shed, then you can soak, or use the wet pillow case method but overnight is a bit excessive.

For actual stuck eyecaps, simply raising the humidity (no soaking at all) works. Soaking strips away the oils remember, so it does more harm than good.. In extreme cases such as the one you were having, you would provide the snake with a humid hide box.

Get a plastic storage box or tub with a lid that fits on the hot side of the enclosure. Cut a good size hole in one side. Put a couple inches of reptile grade cypress mulch bedding (holds moisture very well and will not mold) or moss, or a combination of the 2, and moisten it but not dripping wet. Put it in the hot side of the enclosure during the week of shed.

For badly stuck eye caps, along with raising humidity and adding the humid hide, you can use a dab of regular bacitracin or regular neosporin ointment (no painkiller or other additives) on each eye daily during the week of shed.

If you follow these steps it is guaranteed the snake will have a complete shed, eyecaps and all, no matter what the past issues have been.


Now I know this info is too little too late, but now you know exactly what to do for future reference..

---

I really do like your idea for the humid hide though thank you I will start making arrangements pending all goes well... Thank you again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

I agree with most of what your saying... and I'm not saying that you are wrong... but I have very educated people that would disagree with you on parts... thats where it comes down to each person doing it differently... I've been told by multiple people you never want to use any type of topical ointment because of absorption and breathing issues through the lens... Again, I'm not saying your wrong... but it comes down to me taking little bits of advice and going with what my gut says... I appreciate your information though! Thank you We will consider all you said

---

Those who have been on this forum for years, many years longer than I have, and who have used this method in "extreme" cases, have never had an issue.. Of course we also tell everyone that oil based ointments are not to be used on wounds on reptiles unless it's a very tiny amount on a very superficial wound. Never a large open wound or burn. Oil can also cause scale flaking. Though some old timers still used mineral oil back in the day for shedding issues, it's not recommended anymore for obvious reasons...

Trust me.. We are "educated" here.. At least those who are not newbies..

The humid hide and raising overall humidity rather high should work but like I said, for extreme cases, or multiple layers of stuck caps, an ointment can be used (a dab on each eye only during blue) and will do absolutely no harm. But this of course is not something that someone should do or have to do continuously. There is another member here who mentioned a specific eye ointment in another thread though I can't remember what it was called. It's an ointment that is for the eyes.

Think about this for a moment.. When a baby is born, they put a huge blob of their hospital brand bacitracin in the infants eyes immediately. This is to prevent infection or pink-eye from coming in contact with the fluids on its way out.. Knowing this, my pediatrician gave me some wonderful advice. My son use to get pink-eye a lot as a baby. He would always be touching his eyes but the medicated drops burn. My Dr told me at the first sign of pink-eye to just put a dab of bacitracin in the inside corner of each of his eyes twice a day. Morning and bedtime.. I did this the next time and the very next morning it was gone. I've done this ever since and pass this tip on to people I know.. Bacitracin.. Not neo.. Neo is triple antibiotic and has other stuff in it. It's also recommended that diabetics who get scratches and wounds easily should not use neo. They should use bacitracin only. Bacitracin is only one ingredient and is identical to the antibiotic ointment they put in a newborns eyes in the hospital..

We humans don't have a hard protective cap covering our eyes...

Think about it..

These supposed experts you speak of? I would gladly tell them to their face how wrong they are. This is absolutely no offense to you so don't take it the wrong way but if you're talking about a group of local people from a small local expo who are simply set in their ways and would never ever consider their advice might be wrong, then you really should start asking questions here.. They sound rather close-minded..

If you ask all the same questions here in the appropriate forum areas, and then see the flood of replies you get and the different answers you get from so many different people, I'm sure you may start to open your eyes to other possibilities. Look at your snake.. Isn't it apparent that the people you were talking to prior were wrong?

I've been keeping and raising snakes since 1995.. I've been a member of this forum for a few years now. I'm sorry if I'm not educated enough for you to trust..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Soaking prior to a shed will actually cause a bad shed. It strips away the necessary oils between the old skin and the new skin which are needed to help the old skin come off. To ensure a good shed, you simply need to raise the humidity.

The humidity inside the enclosure should be kept about 60% at ALL times. 50% is really too low. That is the normal room humidity that humans are comfortable at. BPs spend most of their lives underground in old rodent burrows or termite mounds where it is rather humid.. Then raise it to between 65% and 75% during the week of shed or the moment the snake goes into blue. The belly turns pink and the eyes are dull, etc..

Make sure you have a good hygrometer to measure the humidity. The digital Accurate weather station with probe from Walmart which only costs about $13 is what we recommend to monitor your hot side, cool side/ambient, and humidity all at the same time. If you're using a glass aquarium as an enclosure, completely seal off the screen top except for about 2 inches along the back for ventilation. This holds in heat and humidity. You can use foil or wax paper just taped down along the edges of the lid to accomplish this.

If the snake has a bad shed, then you can soak, or use the wet pillow case method but overnight is a bit excessive.

For actual stuck eyecaps, simply raising the humidity (no soaking at all) works. Soaking strips away the oils remember, so it does more harm than good.. In extreme cases such as the one you were having, you would provide the snake with a humid hide box.

Get a plastic storage box or tub with a lid that fits on the hot side of the enclosure. Cut a good size hole in one side. Put a couple inches of reptile grade cypress mulch bedding (holds moisture very well and will not mold) or moss, or a combination of the 2, and moisten it but not dripping wet. Put it in the hot side of the enclosure during the week of shed.

For badly stuck eye caps, along with raising humidity and adding the humid hide, you can use a dab of regular bacitracin or regular neosporin ointment (no painkiller or other additives) on each eye daily during the week of shed.

If you follow these steps it is guaranteed the snake will have a complete shed, eyecaps and all, no matter what the past issues have been.


Now I know this info is too little too late, but now you know exactly what to do for future reference..

---

I also disagree with several statements made here. I think putting ointment on the eyes is a bad idea and 50% humidity is plenty in my opinion for bp's. I currently have 21 bps and have had many snakes in the past and I have found 50% to get perfect sheds in almost all cases except chrondros. All my bp's are kept around 50% humidity and I rarely ever have a bad shed. Also I have soaked many snakes 30 mins or more that looked like they were gonna have a bad shed and it has worked every time. They shed in one piece so I'm not sure where you got your info but in my 20+ years of experience I have seen for myself that many of your statements are not accurate.

I haven't soaked a ball python in years... I haven't had a single case of RI with one exception that was sick when I bought her years 9 ago, and I've only had to use the ointment treatment one time on a Retic that came to me with layers of stuck caps. It worked like a charm..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Trust me.. We are "educated" here.. At least those who are not newbies..

Think about it..

These supposed experts you speak of? I would gladly tell them to their face how wrong they are. This is absolutely no offense to you so don't take it the wrong way but if you're talking about a group of local people from a small local expo who are simply set in their ways and would never ever consider their advice might be wrong, then you really should start asking questions here.. They sound rather close-minded..

If you ask all the same questions here in the appropriate forum areas, and then see the flood of replies you get and the different answers you get from so many different people, I'm sure you may start to open your eyes to other possibilities. Look at your snake.. Isn't it apparent that the people you were talking to prior were wrong?

I've been keeping and raising snakes since 1995.. I've been a member of this forum for a few years now. I'm sorry if I'm not educated enough for you to trust..

---

I would like to cover a couple of things... It's not a matter of you not being educated enough for me to trust... but I don't know you from a hole in the ground... trust is earned... I appreciate the feedback you have provided we don't have to see eye to eye on every comment, not to state that I wouldn't consider your advice if I were to find myself in a similar situation (which hopefully will never happen) So it's not a matter of you not being educated enough... In regards to the people that I have received trusted information from... We are referring to people from multiple rescue facilities and people who have been in the industry for over 30 yrs with multiple degrees including Vet degrees as well... please understand that just because you choose to do it one way doesn't mean someone doing it a different way is doing it wrong... I might raise my child one way... but you might raise your differently... doesn't mean either of us are wrong... I'm not challenging you... but please understand that the people my information has been provided by are trusted, educated, and expeirenced in this matter just as much if not more than others... please know this isn't a pissing match... I see eye to eye with you on some things... and I really appreciate the help you have offered... but I'm really just hoping I will never have to use your advice because I'm really hoping for the best possible recovery that she can have... It's really nice to know that if I got in a bind I would have people that I could ask opinions of...

So Currently, we have her a dark but warm area with moderate humidity, no stress and just giving her time to heal till she can be seen tomorrow... and she is still doing ok... She is a trooper and I am really hoping she pulls through this, because she is to me like most dogs are to people... very important. Crossing my fingers!! Wishing for the best!

You say trust is earned. Then why post here asking questions when you know no one.......just saying.

Everyone here is just trying to helping you out. Maybe take the advice given and see how it goes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

You say trust is earned. Then why post here asking questions when you know no one.......just saying.

Everyone here is just trying to helping you out. Maybe take the advice given and see how it goes?

---

I agree... it doesn't make much sense huh... however, If I have 15 different people who reply with different ideas... I'm not going to try them all... I'm probably going to go with the item that multiple people have tried and worked and I'm also going to go with what my instinct tells me makes sense... but I completely agree, just hoping to get a bunch of different ideas in hopes to find something that might apply to us...

I appreciate all the feedback... and I'm not saying this information isn't being used... it is... but right now I am letting her heal until I can get her to a vet... I worry the more things I attempt the more I complicate the process considering how far her condition has already progressed...

Thank you though... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

He was talking about Boas though. i've never seen a ball python soak for more than 10 minutes at a time. I agree that there is no absolute right or wrong way to keep these animals, you just have to find what works for you.

---

I have one female that will soak in her bowl for a week straight during breeding season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

I agree with most of what your saying... and I'm not saying that you are wrong... but I have very educated people that would disagree with you on parts... thats where it comes down to each person doing it differently... I've been told by multiple people you never want to use any type of topical ointment because of absorption and breathing issues through the lens... Again, I'm not saying your wrong... but it comes down to me taking little bits of advice and going with what my gut says... I appreciate your information though! Thank you We will consider all you said

---

About the topical ointment. I had a sand boa about 7 years ago that had his eye scale removed and his eye started to dry out and sink in, so I put a small dab of neosporin on it every couple of days until his next shed. I thought his eye was gone but after a couple more sheds it was fully healed and back to normal. People may disagree but I knew I had to keep that eye moist and clean and in MY experience this saved my sand boas eyeball. I'm not saying you should do this but I did and it worked, maybe it was a fluke but in my case it helped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

I would like to cover a couple of things... It's not a matter of you not being educated enough for me to trust... but I don't know you from a hole in the ground... trust is earned... I appreciate the feedback you have provided we don't have to see eye to eye on every comment, not to state that I wouldn't consider your advice if I were to find myself in a similar situation (which hopefully will never happen) So it's not a matter of you not being educated enough... In regards to the people that I have received trusted information from... We are referring to people from multiple rescue facilities and people who have been in the industry for over 30 yrs with multiple degrees including Vet degrees as well... please understand that just because you choose to do it one way doesn't mean someone doing it a different way is doing it wrong... I might raise my child one way... but you might raise your differently... doesn't mean either of us are wrong... I'm not challenging you... but please understand that the people my information has been provided by are trusted, educated, and expeirenced in this matter just as much if not more than others... please know this isn't a pissing match... I see eye to eye with you on some things... and I really appreciate the help you have offered... but I'm really just hoping I will never have to use your advice because I'm really hoping for the best possible recovery that she can have... It's really nice to know that if I got in a bind I would have people that I could ask opinions of...

---

I'm gonna have to disagree with some of this. Everyone is entitled their own opinions and to do things the way they want, however there is a right way and a wrong way to do anything. I can put sunscreen on my clothes instead of my skin, does that make it wrong? No, but I'm gonna get sunburn. I can put water in my gas tank instead of gas, this is how I like to do it, but will my car run? No. Same goes for reptiles and animals, there is a better way to do something and there is a way that is not as good in reality and fact, not in opinion or preference. Sorry for being a bit facetious but you know what I'm saying and I hear where your coming from as well. Also many people on here have much experience and are very knowledgable. Still hope your snake is ok and sorry you had a bad experience on here and with your snake. Common drink the cool aid, it doesnt taste that bad;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

I have one female that will soak in her bowl for a week straight during breeding season.

---

First off, I said that none of my ball pythons soak for more than 10 minutes at a time and not all ball pythons soak for 10 minutes at a time.

From what I have seen and from what I have heard here and other places as well most ball pythons don't soak much... There always will be exceptions but I personally believe that if you give a BP a large enough water dish that they can soak in it then it's up to them. I don't force them to soak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

I have one female that will soak in her bowl for a week straight during breeding season.

---

And this is not entirely uncommon. When I had 30+ breeding BPs at one time I did have one that would literally soak for days in his water bowl. For no reason other than he wanted to do it. He always did this no matter what. Sometimes there would be one or two others that would get in their bowl for no reason. Never a mite or sickness to be seen. So yes. There is always the exception, but many of us here have seen the negative effects that a prior soaking can have if a ball is prone to bad sheds. Your water quality can play a huge role as well. A person who has hard well water and no softener is much more likely to cause a bad shed by soaking their BP in that water than a person who has soft city water. Much of this is simple common sense that I keep trying to point out. Hasn't anyone here ever moved from soft city water to hard, calcified well water and saw the immediate difference it made in your hair, skin, and clothes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

First off, I said that none of my ball pythons soak for more than 10 minutes at a time and not all ball pythons soak for 10 minutes at a time.

From what I have seen and from what I have heard here and other places as well most ball pythons don't soak much... There always will be exceptions but I personally believe that if you give a BP a large enough water dish that they can soak in it then it's up to them. I don't force them to soak.

---

I hope my comment didnt agitate you. All I said was that I have one that will soak for up to a week. I was just covering the other end of the spectrum.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

I hope my comment didnt agitate you. All I said was that I have one that will soak for up to a week. I was just covering the other end of the spectrum.:)

---

No it's cool there is more than enough of that running around this thread lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

And this is not entirely uncommon. When I had 30+ breeding BPs at one time I did have one that would literally soak for days in his water bowl. For no reason other than he wanted to do it. He always did this no matter what. Sometimes there would be one or two others that would get in their bowl for no reason. Never a mite or sickness to be seen. So yes. There is always the exception, but many of us here have seen the negative effects that a prior soaking can have if a ball is prone to bad sheds. Your water quality can play a huge role as well. A person who has hard well water and no softener is much more likely to cause a bad shed by soaking their BP in that water than a person who has soft city water. Much of this is simple common sense that I keep trying to point out. Hasn't anyone here ever moved from soft city water to hard, calcified well water and saw the immediate difference it made in your hair, skin, and clothes?

---

Yep this one girl of mine is a real goofball. She does it every year right at the beginning of November and no other time and its always right before a shed all the way up untill she sheds and then shes out of the bowl till next november. I agree with you, I never soak any of my snakes before shed but will do so if they have a bad shed which I rarely if ever have an issue with. And I agree, hard water sucks:rage:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

No it's cool there is more than enough of that running around this thread lol.

---

lol, Ive noticed.

First, a question:

Do the workers at the shelter specialize in reptiles, or are they mainly dog and cat people?

Second, the main reason it is inadvisable to leave your bp in water overnight is because they might drown. Could you swim for 5 hours straight?

Third, nobody is trying to attack you. Some of the comments may seem blunt, and often are, but everybody here is working towards the same goal: The swift and complete recovery of your BP.

It's fine if you don't want to try the ideas listed here. I can think of a couple that I wouldn't try with my snakes if they had stuck eye caps. I'm not going to mention them and start a war, but they are there.

Lastly, I hope your BP recovers. My snakes are part of my family too, and I would feel really bad if anything happened to one of them.

Thanks,

Apple2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apple2

First, a question:

Do the workers at the shelter specialize in reptiles, or are they mainly dog and cat people?

Second, the main reason it is inadvisable to leave your bp in water overnight is because they might drown. Could you swim for 5 hours straight?

Third, nobody is trying to attack you. Some of the comments may seem blunt, and often are, but everybody here is working towards the same goal: The swift and complete recovery of your BP.

It's fine if you don't want to try the ideas listed here. I can think of a couple that I wouldn't try with my snakes if they had stuck eye caps. I'm not going to mention them and start a war, but they are there.

Lastly, I hope your BP recovers. My snakes are part of my family too, and I would feel really bad if anything happened to one of them.

Thanks,

Apple2

---

Rescue facilities - not animal shelters...

I didn't make her swim for 5 hours... she had something in there is keep her above water....

Listen in the end I have done what I can to smooth this over... when you start off a post with something about dog & cat shelters... your questioning my intelligence... or I'm questioning yours... I wasn't referring to "Shelters" I was referring to Rescues, like reptile and snake rescues....In the end she did ok all night long... and now I am packing her up to go take her to get help...

The whole purpose of this thread was missed... We live in an area without many specialist, so I was bouncing ideas off of people on here in hopes that it would give me some type of starting point for our vets here... I've made many calls... hopefully, I've found one that knows enough... I appreciate the people who did help... but I won't ever do this again... In the end I really hope she will make it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

We did not add anything to the water, just half a log for her to rest on. During the night she did crap in the water.

---

I'd like to emphasize that this is no way an attack on the OP following advice they were given, but to those that are surprised that the snake had issues from soaking, note that she was soaking in feces for some part of that five hours, which could certainly fast-track an infection if there is damage to her eye or eyes.

To the OP - I know it can be hard to interpret tone on an internet forum, but please bear in mind that we are on this forum because we care about the animals, just as you care for yours. We have all made mistakes, even from good-intentioned advice. There is a multitude of people on this forum that I have learned valuable information from without even posting my questions. I hope you choose to keep us updated on her condition and don't jump to judgement out of context on the statements posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

I have one female that will soak in her bowl for a week straight during breeding season.

---

Problem is, that snake is doing it of her own accord. The snake in question this time was forced to soak overnight. It's the same difference as you going for a 3 hour swim, and someone forcing you to stay in the pool for 3 hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Rescue facilities - not animal shelters...

I didn't make her swim for 5 hours... she had something in there is keep her above water....

Listen in the end I have done what I can to smooth this over... when you start off a post with something about dog & cat shelters... your questioning my intelligence... or I'm questioning yours... I wasn't referring to "Shelters" I was referring to Rescues, like reptile and snake rescues....In the end she did ok all night long... and now I am packing her up to go take her to get help...

The whole purpose of this thread was missed... We live in an area without many specialist, so I was bouncing ideas off of people on here in hopes that it would give me some type of starting point for our vets here... I've made many calls... hopefully, I've found one that knows enough... I appreciate the people who did help... but I won't ever do this again... In the end I really hope she will make it...

---

Please read the whole post. :please: There was no question of your intelligence, though you seem to be getting quite huffy towards the people trying to help you.
When I took my snake to the vet, the vet was primarily a "dog and cat" vet. This is why the question was asked, I think, because often up here in the pacific northwest people who see exotics specialize in dogs/cats, not snakes. It's hard to find a specialized herp vet up here.
Any rescue up here probably takes their snake to the vet themselves. You should ask this "rescue" where they take the snakes. As you said once before, you don't know them from a hole in the ground, right? Question their care techniques, who they see, what they do. Your snake is the one who this all pertains to; and your snake is the one who cannot talk or ask for help or complain about things. Please ask questions for your snake!
Nobody, not a single person here, has insulted you, questioned your intelligence, or anything of the like. We as a forum have been nothing but kind to you, respectful, and gave the best answers we could. We cannot diagnose a snake via the internet; therefore, we cannot treat or tell YOU how to treat the snake, via the internet. We did the best we could.
You remind me of how I once felt when I was cornered by some less than polite people on the internet, and bashed and made to feel like an idiot, when I knew I wasn't. I can tell you nobody who has posted here is like that, and nobody is cornering you. You are like many other pet owners; you made a mistake. This is the reason vet school takes YEARS to finish, because animals of any type are a complex creature to treat in medical terms. They can't speak, they are difficult to read.
We always say when someone makes a mistake that others learn from it. This does not mean we are making an example of you, but using the situation itself as an example. We will never say, "You remember (insert your name here) and how she messed up?" We will say, "Do you remember how incorrect information led to trauma to a snake's eye?" Or something similar, whatever turns out to be wrong with the snake. Only with learning from other people's mistakes can we correctly learn how to care for reptiles. We didn't learn how to care for them and treat them overnight. It took years, YEARS to learn proper care techniques and treatments for injuries and such.
Please do not get angry with us, we are trying to help.
As for something skiploder said, I never recommend anything for retained eyecaps other than perhaps soaking a pillowcase and letting the snake slither through it. This will remove, at the very least, the top layer of eye caps on a snake's eyes. And in this manner, you do not risk injury to the snake by handling it and peeling at the eyes, and the snake cannot injure itself in a soft pillowcase. And if it doesn't work the first time you do it, wait a day or two and maybe try again.
It is difficult to tell if a snake has retained their eye caps or not. This is why I always check my snake's sheds after they shed--I look for the tail tip, nose part, and eye caps. If it's not there, I check them thoroughly and run them through a wet towel or do the pillowcase trick for eyecaps and nose.
Soaking for 20 minutes is good. Soaking for 5 hours is bad. It's like if you go for a 5 hour swim of your own accord, or someone forces you to swim for 5 hours. One of those two is going to be very uncomfortable.
The people who have given you advice (apart from myself, as I am no expert and am going only off what others have so graciously shared with me) are experts in caring for their animals. But even they too started at one point knowing nothing, and they had to learn. They likely learned from other people sharing knowledge with them, in person but still. Other people have to share the knowledge for new keepers to learn.
If nothing else, the good health of these people's animals should stand for their ability and knowledge to care for animals. A hole in the ground wouldn't have tons of snakes all in pristine condition; a hole in the ground wouldn't care enough to be sharing their thoughts with you. That, here, is the difference.
As for a rescue of any kind, they take in sick animals some times, and therefore you cannot judge them based on the health of their animals, because they didn't raise all of the animals themselves.
Again, ask questions for your snake, who cannot talk for itself.
I think I read that you live in Idaho? I live in Washington state, just near the Idaho border. If you need help, please let me know and perhaps I could send you something helpful in the mail, or we could meet up if you're driving nearby to get the snake some help. I don't have much, but a comfortable hide for your snake, some cage cleaner for herps, some water bowls, paper towels--whatever I can do to help. You need to change your snake's bedding daily and wipe down and practically sterilize that whole tank. Whatever I can do to help, please let me know, and I will try. I don't have much money, and only 5 snakes, and I'm certainly no expert. But I will do what I can. Keeping the snake comfortable can't hurt, so let me know if you want some cage cleaner or a hide or paper towels for it. I'll help where i can.
Don't beat yourself up. The only thing you can do now is look to the future and promise this won't happen again while a snake is under your supervision, and that you'redoing all you can for this snake--as it sounds like you are.
good luck to you and your snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shelliebear

Problem is, that snake is doing it of her own accord. The snake in question this time was forced to soak overnight. It's the same difference as you going for a 3 hour swim, and someone forcing you to stay in the pool for 3 hours.

---

I know that, me and the op were kind of getting off subject about ball pythons being soakers or not liking to soak, (on their own). I would never force a snake to soak overnight and never have. Also comparing a snake soaking in a shallow tub of water and forcing a person to swim for 3 hours is not even comparable or on the same level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

The whole purpose of this thread was missed... We live in an area without many specialist, so I was bouncing ideas off of people on here in hopes that it would give me some type of starting point for our vets here... I've made many calls... hopefully, I've found one that knows enough... I appreciate the people who did help... but I won't ever do this again... In the end I really hope she will make it...

---

First and most importantly, I do hope your BP recovers and thrives.

The one who's missed the point here is you, and I'm sorry for that. You say you came here to bounce ideas, yet you became very defensive when those ideas challenged your previous actions, or did not fit into a mold you are currently comfortable with. The beauty of a forum like this is that you can take the ideas you like, toss the ones you don't think you need, and apply what you learn. It is unfortunate that pride of authorship and the need to defend what in reality are often small sample size observations, gets in the way. It is sad that you think you won't be able to use the resource in the future.

Were you able to get your snake to the vet? How is she doing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shelliebear

Problem is, that snake is doing it of her own accord. The snake in question this time was forced to soak overnight. It's the same difference as you going for a 3 hour swim, and someone forcing you to stay in the pool for 3 hours.

---

Seriously?? Forced?? How do you know what my snake wants... I have had her for quite some time... I know her temprament... I have a decent idea of what she likes and dislikes... I don't get that feeling from her.. but thanks for assuming...

You are all making this bigger than what it is... She is fine... They aspirated the the space she is out of surgery and doing fine... I have to give her antibiotic injections 2x a day and she has antibiotic drops for her eyes. The vet didn't disagree with anything I had done... she actually suggested that I should continue soaking her for an hour or two each day... She is home looks very comfortable moving around just fine and the dr. even suggested that we try to feed her today to see if she is interested...

All I can think of is how ridiculous this has become... You all can continue to tell me I made bad choices.. but it's doesn't fix the problem... It would be helpful if you stopped targeting and became more helpful because I thought that was the purpose of a forum like this... If you don't have something respectful and helpful then don't bother... but I think we have received all the help we are going to get from this forum.... This was such a bad decision to come here... Thanks for making me feel like the worst person in the world I appreciate it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shelliebear

Please read the whole post. :please: There was no question of your intelligence, though you seem to be getting quite huffy towards the people trying to help you.
When I took my snake to the vet, the vet was primarily a "dog and cat" vet. This is why the question was asked, I think, because often up here in the pacific northwest people who see exotics specialize in dogs/cats, not snakes. It's hard to find a specialized herp vet up here.
Any rescue up here probably takes their snake to the vet themselves. You should ask this "rescue" where they take the snakes. As you said once before, you don't know them from a hole in the ground, right? Question their care techniques, who they see, what they do. Your snake is the one who this all pertains to; and your snake is the one who cannot talk or ask for help or complain about things. Please ask questions for your snake!
Nobody, not a single person here, has insulted you, questioned your intelligence, or anything of the like. We as a forum have been nothing but kind to you, respectful, and gave the best answers we could. We cannot diagnose a snake via the internet; therefore, we cannot treat or tell YOU how to treat the snake, via the internet. We did the best we could.
You remind me of how I once felt when I was cornered by some less than polite people on the internet, and bashed and made to feel like an idiot, when I knew I wasn't. I can tell you nobody who has posted here is like that, and nobody is cornering you. You are like many other pet owners; you made a mistake. This is the reason vet school takes YEARS to finish, because animals of any type are a complex creature to treat in medical terms. They can't speak, they are difficult to read.
We always say when someone makes a mistake that others learn from it. This does not mean we are making an example of you, but using the situation itself as an example. We will never say, "You remember (insert your name here) and how she messed up?" We will say, "Do you remember how incorrect information led to trauma to a snake's eye?" Or something similar, whatever turns out to be wrong with the snake. Only with learning from other people's mistakes can we correctly learn how to care for reptiles. We didn't learn how to care for them and treat them overnight. It took years, YEARS to learn proper care techniques and treatments for injuries and such.
Please do not get angry with us, we are trying to help.
As for something skiploder said, I never recommend anything for retained eyecaps other than perhaps soaking a pillowcase and letting the snake slither through it. This will remove, at the very least, the top layer of eye caps on a snake's eyes. And in this manner, you do not risk injury to the snake by handling it and peeling at the eyes, and the snake cannot injure itself in a soft pillowcase. And if it doesn't work the first time you do it, wait a day or two and maybe try again.
It is difficult to tell if a snake has retained their eye caps or not. This is why I always check my snake's sheds after they shed--I look for the tail tip, nose part, and eye caps. If it's not there, I check them thoroughly and run them through a wet towel or do the pillowcase trick for eyecaps and nose.
Soaking for 20 minutes is good. Soaking for 5 hours is bad. It's like if you go for a 5 hour swim of your own accord, or someone forces you to swim for 5 hours. One of those two is going to be very uncomfortable.
The people who have given you advice (apart from myself, as I am no expert and am going only off what others have so graciously shared with me) are experts in caring for their animals. But even they too started at one point knowing nothing, and they had to learn. They likely learned from other people sharing knowledge with them, in person but still. Other people have to share the knowledge for new keepers to learn.
If nothing else, the good health of these people's animals should stand for their ability and knowledge to care for animals. A hole in the ground wouldn't have tons of snakes all in pristine condition; a hole in the ground wouldn't care enough to be sharing their thoughts with you. That, here, is the difference.
As for a rescue of any kind, they take in sick animals some times, and therefore you cannot judge them based on the health of their animals, because they didn't raise all of the animals themselves.
Again, ask questions for your snake, who cannot talk for itself.
I think I read that you live in Idaho? I live in Washington state, just near the Idaho border. If you need help, please let me know and perhaps I could send you something helpful in the mail, or we could meet up if you're driving nearby to get the snake some help. I don't have much, but a comfortable hide for your snake, some cage cleaner for herps, some water bowls, paper towels--whatever I can do to help. You need to change your snake's bedding daily and wipe down and practically sterilize that whole tank. Whatever I can do to help, please let me know, and I will try. I don't have much money, and only 5 snakes, and I'm certainly no expert. But I will do what I can. Keeping the snake comfortable can't hurt, so let me know if you want some cage cleaner or a hide or paper towels for it. I'll help where i can.
Don't beat yourself up. The only thing you can do now is look to the future and promise this won't happen again while a snake is under your supervision, and that you'redoing all you can for this snake--as it sounds like you are.
good luck to you and your snake.

---

I understand what your saying... but it's the way it's being said... "Forced"... No offense but if you said to me that I "Forced" my child to do something against there will you are inferring that you don't approve of what I've done... which in turn is an insult... What's done is done... leave it be... You guys keep trying to say no offense but then turn around and in same sentence tear me apart... I don't appreciate it... If you have positive feedback then provide but you if want to tell me what I shouldn't have done vs. what I could do from here on out... I don't wanna hear it... no matter how it's said... It's still respectful! I've done everything I can for her and I will continue... She is my life... I can show you all things that say the eye caps should be removed... I can show you things that state they shouldn't... I believed it was affecting how she would eat... I made a decision in what I thought was the best for her... not everything goes as planned... I apologize for being so stupid! Offended... You better believe it... Try starting off the conversation with... pull her substrate, sanitize the habitat, increase humidity, moderate heat levels... and best of wishes would have been better off... again Thanks! I have no intention of listening to this anymore... I would give anything right now to delete this post...

I'm glad to hear that your bp is doing well, and I hope it has a quick recovery.

Personally I wouldn't try to feed it today. Your bp has been through a lot the last few days, and giving a day or two without being fed shouldn't hurt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

Were you able to get your snake to the vet? How is she doing?

---

She is doing fantastic! The swelling has gone down on the Right eye... Left eye has stopped bleeding and is decreasing in size... The vet believes she will retain a strong portion of her vision... They aspirated both eyes in an attempt to drain any unwanted fluid with no return which is good... I will give her antibiotic shots 2x per day for 10 days.... She has Tobramycin drops that we will put on every 3-4 hours... she is already improving... I believe she will have a very good recovery. Thank you for your concern and help!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy4578

I'm glad to hear that your bp is doing well, and I hope it has a quick recovery.

Personally I wouldn't try to feed it today. Your bp has been through a lot the last few days, and giving a day or two without being fed shouldn't hurt it.

---

Thank you! I agree... She currently eats frozen weanling rats... I think I might try to feed her something smaller in a couple of days because I don't want to create any unneeded pressure... I feel much better that she is doing better now... Thank you again!

Did the vet diagnose the source of the problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

Did the vet diagnose the source of the problem?

---

I would also like to know what the vets diagnosis was. It just seems weird that it would take 8 days to show up if he removed the eye cap, and I doubt 5 House of soaking caused this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jason79

I would also like to know what the vets diagnosis was. It just seems weird that it would take 8 days to show up if he removed the eye cap, and I doubt 5 House of soaking caused this.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

Did the vet diagnose the source of the problem?

---

She believes it's Keratosis, due to lid inflammation from a small peice of the eye cap that retained in the lower lid... she said there was no way we would have know because of where it was located... but they tried to aspirate it to make sure it wasn't caused by the soaking and there was no return which is good... just a severe eye infection and they believe she will keep most of her vision... right now she can't see anything so hopefully it comes back soon...

I need to do my best keeping her humidity up with only being able to use paper towels as a substrate, and I also need to keep the heat up without being able to use all of her heating pads because I am worried there isn't enough substrate to prevent her from burning herself.... Should I try to use Sterile Water when spraying the tank for humidity...?

If you're worried about her burning herself then I take it you're not using a thermostat to control the UTH??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

you are inferring that you don't approve of what I've done... which in turn is an insult...

---

Please explain how not agreeing with your methods is an insult?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

again Thanks! I have no intention of listening to this anymore... I would give anything right now to delete this post...

---

So you're done with this then....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Thank you! I agree...

---

Except you're back now? Is that because you agree with this last piece of advice?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

She believes it's Keratosis, due to lid inflammation from a small peice of the eye cap that retained in the lower lid...

---

Did your vet explain how Keratosis from a small piece of the eye cap caused both eyes to swell?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

I need to do my best keeping her humidity up with only being able to use paper towels as a substrate, and I also need to keep the heat up without being able to use all of her heating pads because I am worried there isn't enough substrate to prevent her from burning herself.... Should I try to use Sterile Water when spraying the tank for humidity...?

---

Before I give you my opinion on your sterile water question, I need to know if you're going to go straight up and turn left if you don't agree with my opinion? I find it hard to look past the following:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aimin4strz

again Thanks! I have no intention of listening to this anymore... I would give anything right now to delete this post...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

If you're worried about her burning herself then I take it you're not using a thermostat to control the UTH??

---

We are in her original tank... But I am unable to get to it where it's at to transfer it to her quarantine tank...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Please explain how not agreeing with your methods is an insult?




So you're done with this then....




Except you're back now? Is that because you agree with this last piece of advice?



Did your vet explain how Keratosis from a small piece of the eye cap caused both eyes to swell?



Before I give you my opinion on your sterile water question, I need to know if you're going to go straight up and turn left if you don't agree with my opinion? I find it hard to look past the following:

---

This is what I'm talking about... your helpful...