What is the best example of....

I really dig your Enchi, Lesser and Cinny.

We should stop te bickering and just let the thread go on as it was intended to: people posting pics of snakes that they think are superb examples of a morph. Everyone gets that theres preferences blah blah blah. But until something like the american kennel club is created then there wont be set differences that we agree on. So far I have really enjoyed seeing what other ppl consider good/bad examples. I agree with some and disagree with others. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

But until something like the american kennel club is created then there wont be set differences that we agree on.

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It's extremely easy to start a club. I mean, I could literally do it right now just by saying 'I now start the Ball Pythons of America club!'. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Pins are a good example. I like a unbroken stripe on my Pins and Pin combos.

Here is my Jigsaw girl:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...WHISKEYWM1.jpg

I like that her stripe is not broken (but could be more perfect), and there is a decided color difference with the gold of the stripe and the brown/white on the sides.

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Funny how your "Jigsaw" looks just like a king pin or butter pin, whatever you like to call it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

We should stop te bickering and just let the thread go on as it was intended to: people posting pics of snakes that they think are superb examples of a morph. Everyone gets that theres preferences blah blah blah. But until something like the american kennel club is created then there wont be set differences that we agree on. So far I have really enjoyed seeing what other ppl consider good/bad examples. I agree with some and disagree with others. :)

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Funny how all of these threads seem to end up with people bickering....

The best example is honestly the one you are truly happy with. What some consider to be the best looking lessers, I consider boring. Some love high yellow pastels, some love blushing... I prefer high yellow with almost a black back stripe but still a degree of blushing. Are you happy with the morphs you have acquired?? That's all that matters!:gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy_G

Funny how all of these threads seem to end up with people bickering....

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Personally I think it's funny how everybody thinks that their personal snake is the "best example" of the said morph. No offense OP.

I think if a snake was the "best example" of the morph the breeder would most likely be holding it back. I know I would.

I think the work "best" need not be thrown around at all. Representative is the more proper word I guess.

Either way for the folks that think this is a stupid exercise, there are tons of other threads to check out. I appreciate the positive replies and even the constructive critical ones. And I especially appreciate getting to see the sweet snakes.

As I have repeatedly stated, I just want to see what each person looks for in a morph to see if some themes develop. So either folks can contribute to that end, or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy_G

Funny how your "Jigsaw" looks just like a king pin or butter pin, whatever you like to call it...

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Actually, it looks more like a jigsaw. Once you've seen enough kingpins and jigsaws, you would be able to tell the difference :P.

Also, I don't see any bickering o_O. I see people stating their opinions, then I see others who have a different opinion. It seems more like a discussion than bickering or arguing. After all, that's what the forums are for lol...

Lots of interesting points raised. I'll restrain myself from writing a six page, largely redundant dissertation on the topic (for now, anyway :rolleyes:) in lieu of some picture posting, as requested ...

This is a female pastel that I no longer own. I would grade her as dead average to slightly below. She has a bold black pattern but is FAR too busy for my liking. Her color is okay, not poop brown, but certainly not yellow. I think this picture makes her look a little uglier than she is, but she isn't great either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...rvana/Zoey.jpg

This is a female pastel that I no longer own (at least for now); I would grade her as average to slightly above. What I look for in pastels is a reduced pattern, which she has, with some blushing, which she has but not a ton of. She's darker and not as bright as I would like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...08PastelF3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../08PastelF.jpg

This is a female pastel that I DO still own and who isn't going anywhere anytime soon :) She has pretty much everything that I look for in a pastel: very reduced pattern, lots of blushing, and really good color. This picture does her little justice in the color department, and in fact, one thing I love about her is that she's retained that color so very well as she has aged and grown.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...Gingersnap.jpg

This picture shows her color a bit better (with her sister in the center):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...agongirls2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

This is a female pastel that I DO still own and who isn't going anywhere anytime soon :) She has pretty much everything that I look for in a pastel: very reduced pattern, lots of blushing, and really good color. This picture does her little justice in the color department, and in fact, one thing I love about her is that she's retained that color so very well as she has aged and grown.

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Now THAT'S a pastel :bow::bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Lots of interesting points raised. I'll restrain myself from writing a six page, largely redundant dissertation on the topic (for now, anyway :rolleyes:) in lieu of some picture posting, as requested ...

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Outstanding post. Thank you. And I would totally read a six page dissertation!

Enchi... :D
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...8/SDC12857.jpg
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...8/DSCF2468.jpg

I wish I knew what i was looking at so i could appreciate all of these. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Outstanding post. Thank you. And I would totally read a six page dissertation!

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Thanks! :D Don't tempt me, ha ...

I guess I feel that standards and shows are a double-edged sword. Don't get me wrong, I love selective breeding and think that it's done some amazing and wonderful things with our domestic animals. That said, there are some unintended negative consequences that tend to arise secondary to that quest for the "perfect" specimen, and I'd hate to see those become commonplace in ball pythons. I appreciate that ball breeders do already frequently inbreed, and all inbreeding certainly isn't all bad, but I'd had to see the gene pool shrink down to as low as it is in some domestic animal breeds secondary to intensive line breeding, etc. (We already have enough concerns with the problems that come with certain genes ..!)

I do also agree that, to some extent, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that variation shouldn't be squashed. Yes, we can pretty much all agree that a brown pastel is an ugly one, but there is a good amount of variation in morphs which I think is quite good and acceptable. For example, I personally love the super ultra reduced-pattern clowns, and I know that a lot of people do, too. However, I know that many others find them boring and like a clown with a much busier, more visually exciting pattern. Those people would be SOL if we were making a standard of perfection for clowns that called for a highly reduced pattern.

There's also the fascinating question of what our goals are or "should" be in ball python breeding. As someone else pointed out, these aren't utilitarian animals, so our standards won't be based on things like frame size and udder conformation. A friend of mine who is more into the conservation/education aspect of herpetoculture has some pretty different opinions on the topic; I think she's more of a mind that we're all here to enjoy the animals and spread the love of all things scaly, and that getting too into the intensive selection aspect of it could potentially lead us too far away from those roots.

Personally, I guess I think that some "standards of perfection" (encompassing maybe 2-4 "types" depending on morph -- eg, Lemon, Blond, Blush for pastel) and some ball python shows would be kind of fun, as long as we kept things civil and lighthearted. I would really hate to see this hobby become elitist and snobbish as a result of show standards, but I think that shows would also have the potential to cast what we're doing in a very positive light.

I can see the points about disease transmission, and yup, that's a huge risk at all livestock shows. I guess I think it would have to be a "play at your own risk" type of thing, with strong recommendations that all participants quarantine participating animals in the same fashion they would a new arrival. It would also be ideal to have a vet onsite (I'd be happy to volunteer next year for some New England shows ;) :O ) who could send anything that looked suspicious out the door before it spread anything.

That was a lot of words without pictures, so here's one more animal with critique. This is my male albino. I like him because he's EXTREMELY reduced-pattern (I actually am most excited to see what his normal offspring look like ..!) and very high contrast, with popping yellow.

The thing that disappoints me is that his yellow has bled into the white since this photo was taken, and his contrast is a lot lower now (though his yellow is still just as bright).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...na/Custard.jpg

Serpent_Nirvana you have very decent and well thought out points, thank you for posting! :)

As far as health, I think in another thread it was mentioned that instead of the judges necessarily handling each animal, the owners could handle them, and show the judges the belly colour, markings, and personality of the snake in question.

Also, health checks would be mandatory at the door, listening for respiratory distress, mites and other signs of illness before the animals are even let into the venue would be a must, in my opinion, to help prevent the spread of disease and parasites.

The bottom line to this whole debate is what would the paying vendor or breeder be willing to do. And i can tell you as a breeder and show vendor i wouldnt care one bit what snake had a ribbon. Yes it could be a selling point to some but anyone that knows what they are looking for in a morph can make up their minds when purchasing any animal. If you dont know what to look for or the signs of illness or mites then your not educated enough to be making the purchase. I take a great deal of caution when i vend a show. All my displays are over heat, hand sanitizer is a must, i never handle other vendors animals, anyone working my tables have a great deal of experience in the animals we sell. I dont sell a single animal on my tables that i dont know about. Having the knowledge to answer a potential customers questions correctlly is paramount. Having a ribbon dog and pony show is just a sideshow we dont need. Plus i dont need a judge giving me props or downgrading my animals that i put so much time and money into producing based on an oppinion. Id rather leave that up to my customers. Rhasputin you said it yourself, you wish you knew what you were looking at to appreciate the animal. If you dont know what your looking at then i dont expect you to understand my point as a long time breeder in regards to a ribbon show. As it may work with animals with pedigrees and breed standards it wont work with the snake world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

As it may work with animals with pedigrees and breed standards it wont work with the snake world.

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Pedigrees exist in the snake world. And standards do as well. :P

Here is my take, recognizing quality comes down to experience and personal taste. I would never go what some book says or some pole on a forum.

If you can't look at a morph and recognize what's right or wrong then you need to do some more homework ;)

Experience is what you want, not some award;)

Im still wondering if the yellow ribbon mice taste the same as the red ribbon mice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Here is my take, recognizing quality comes down to experience and personal taste. I would never go what some book says or some pole on a forum.

If you can't look at a morph and recognize what's right or wrong then you need to do some more homework ;)

Experience is what you want, not some award;)

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How do you know what's 'right and wrong' with no standards?
Even without them written down, there are standards that exist, so you're agreeing with me without even realizing it. :P



But at the same time, you both said it's up to the individual's taste, and that there are standards (rights, and wrongs) So which do you truly believe in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Im still wondering if the yellow ribbon mice taste the same as the red ribbon mice

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I was talking about red mice genotypes. ;)
And if you really want to know, red and yellow mice probably taste the same to your snake, but don't feed them unless you want your python to be a fatty. :gj:

This word we keep using, standards, is obviouslly either meabing different things or your just not getting the point. You cant just write a specific standard for a specific morph because its all based on interpretation. For example, a pastel. How can you say that the standard for a pastel is a certain color or blushibg or pattern. Some like reduced pattern, some like a busy pattern, some like more blushing, some like darker blacks. There are just too many variables involved to do what your talking about. This thread has gone on for so many pages and you keep saying the same thing. It WONT work.

It can work, there's no reason it can't. Every other animal can have a million variations of each 'showable' variety, but the ones that are shown are the ones that individual clubs have standards for.

Just because standards aren't written, doesn't mean that they can't be. That's what you're missing. You seem to think it -can't- be written.


This is how easy it is to make a standard.
Step 1 - invent a club, out of the blue
Step 2 - Write down a standard

the end. It's no more complicated than that. People here, including snake lab, seem to think there is some mystical aspect to writting standards that can't be done to ball pythons. And that's simply un-true.

Eventually, someone is going to start a club, I've even talked to a few people who are very close to doing so. ;)
I would, if i knew a damn thing about ball python genetics, but I don't.
I think chances are, you're probably going to see at least 2-3 different clubs pop up at the same time in the next 8-12 months. :)



How does this affect you? It doesn't, if you don't join in it. It has no affect on you what-so-ever unless you choose to be part of it. :gj:

You said it the best. You dont know a damn thing about ball python genetics. You cant write a standard on a specific morph. I do know ball python genetics and im telling you it cant be done.

It can be done, and someone will do it. I don't understand how you think it can't be done, when it's being done every day by anyone who looks at a ball python. You pick the 'best' ones, and select for them. :confuzd:


It seems like you're not really adding anything to the conversation at this point. You just keep chiming in with 'can't do it, can't be done, not possible'.

Er, I know a reasonable amount about ball python genetics (without actually being a geneticist), and I believe it can be done.

You see, a standard is written to illustrate an ideal. People then do their best to produce animals that come as close as possible to that ideal.

I honestly don't understand why you would think that a standard couldn't be written...I could write one. It would be entirely arbitrary, but then, in truth, all standards are entirely arbitrary. People simply agree to hold them as an ideal. That's where the club comes in--people will talk over what they think (for example), the ideal lemon pastel ball python should look like. Then they will write the standard based on what they agreed on.

The end. That's all there is to it--standard written.
What does knowledge of genetics have to do with that, anyhow?

You have to write the standard before you can begin selectively breeding to meet it.

(As for which snakes get sold, and which stay--a snake that appears to be the best example of a morph may not be held back if another snake which is similarly good but is a better feeder, or has a better personality, is available as well. I know I've let at least one very pretty snake go because it had a temperament like a tree boa, lol).

Plus, a lot of folks here are posting photos of their holdbacks, of course.

This is a very brown pastel. She's a holdback because of her mad blushing. Not every holdback is perfect, sometimes they have one trait to an extreme, but are lacking another.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...083109-1sm.jpg

I agree with winged's points. Also, take a look at the first page of responses on this thread:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1765694

Notice the general consensus on the quality of that bumblebee.. More people find that its not as "clean" or bright yellow as it should be. Obviously there is a standard, and that bee just didn't meet everyone's standard. That bee probably won't win any of the "ribbons" lol.

Quality of a morph is determined by a standard that each individual has. The pastel that winged posted a picture of is not very yellow which he recognizes, but it still possesses a quality that he seeks, and others seek as well.

I personally don't like the blushing in pastels. I rather see dark black and bright yellow to see that contrast! Thats why i freaking LOVE fireflies lol. Though my killerbee is extremely blushed out, and i think it suits her :)

Right, but bold black and bright yellow are characteristics of the lemon pastels, while high blushing is characteristic of the line that Graziani works with.

Both are pastels, but they're being selectively bred for different sets of traits. Each of those versions will have its own standard.

Selective breeding in ball pythons is in its infancy--compare it with what has been done with leopard geckos. There's a lot of room there for dramatic changes in the appearance of these animals over time, both morphs and normals.

I think one reason standards for specific morphs haven't really shown up yet is because people are so focused on making fancy combo morphs instead of improving the base morphs. The person who can stuff the most genes into a single animal wins. :P

Good luck with the ball clubs and registry. Look how good the corn snake registry did lol. I have to bow out of this one cause ive said my peace. Now in 8 to 12 months ill revisit this and say i told ya so lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MakiMaki

I think it is fun to see what other people see as their ideals. Sometimes it helps me see beauty where I didn't appreciate it before. There have been some amazing morphs discovered by breeders seeing something beautiful where others saw nothing. If we set standards, I'm afraid it could discourage that kind of independent creativity, and make us blind to new ways of appreciating these morphs.

So, with that disclaimer, I'll share some of my favorites. My ideals always seem to have clean or reduced patterns and bright colors.

This Super Pastel Male (from Garrick DeMeyer) seemed so perfect to me, that I bought him even though I'd been looking for a female. I love his reduced pattern, his blushing and his clean yellow color.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/IMG_1851.jpg

This Matrix Blonde Pastel female, unrelated to the male above, is the nicest one I produced for her clean bright color. While there are many different qualities to like or not like about a pastel, I think the most important one is that clean yellow color.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/IMG_3784.jpg

This Hypo Male is one of my favorite snakes with his cool reduced pattern and super clean color. He is my ideal hypo.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...IMG_3767-2.jpg

I love all the colors of a nice calico. Thick bright gold/orange highlights the chocolate brown, which contrasts with the brilliant white of a nice specimen. This female from Dan Wolfe started my love affair with this morph.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/IMG_3882.jpg

This not great pic of my lemon pastel lesser platinum was taken when she was older, but you can still appreciate her color and pattern. I like the broad blushed bands in her pattern.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/IMG_3769.jpg
For pure pastel lesser platinum beauty, though, I like this citrus pastel lesser with her classic pattern and really clear yellow.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...IMG_2219-1.jpg

I'm going to finish with a departure from the norm for me. I'm usually not partial to busy patterns, but this citrus pastel yellowbelly (from Amir) is too bright to believe and displays the best traits of both morphs making her my ideal.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...IMG_1773-1.jpg

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Gorgeous super pastel, I love him! Also really like that hulk, nice snakes, thanks for sharing.

Dang the auto correct, above should have said hypo! I have a picture I would post, but seem to be technology challenged. Lol. I can get it to Photobucket, but can't seem to link cut&paste from my phone. (Which is my internet).

I really think my lemon blast is a great example of the morph. I prefer blasts that are less busy in pattern, nice faded head, nice and yellow. This girl has very nice stripes, they are a little broken in the middle, but the rest is intact. She is in shed in this picture, so not as bright as she normally is. I like pins with full stripes and reduced pattern as well.

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/7697/img0778y.jpg

I think that trying to pinpoint a best example of a morph is a basically pointless exercise since different owners will have different opinions on the subject.

For example, I believe someone pointed out earlier in this thread that a good Lesser (my favourite one-gene morph besides Piebald) should have a very dark top and creamy sides/great contrast. Well, I disagree! For me, the perfect lesser would be a creamy coloured snake, almost with a yellow glaze over it.

Although I don't believe my Butter (to me, Butter = Lesser) is the absolute best example of the morph. I am extremely happy with it! It has incredible blushing and is very yellow/cream.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...har/Butter.png The picture is remarkably bad (taken with an iPhone), as he's much lighter than what appears here, anyway...

Hypo yellow belly female[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...ellowbelly.jpg[/IMG]

Mojave het hypo female
[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0257.jpg[/IMG]

Pastel female[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0256.jpg[/IMG]

Pewter male
[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0144.jpg[/IMG]

Flora fauna calico male
[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0153.jpg[/IMG]

Sterling male [IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...erlingm110.jpg[/IMG]

Pied male
[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/..._7225864_n.jpg[/IMG]


Just a couple snakes that for me are what i like in each individual morph. Some will agree, some will not. This is why setting standards wont work

Here's my super pastel at 6 months. I love his blushing
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...mojo/003-1.jpg

16 months
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...m/mojo/008.jpg

Vanilla het Red Axanthic
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/...mojo/008-2.jpg

My Mojos
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/.../mojos/008.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scimthar

I think that trying to pinpoint a best example of a morph is a basically pointless exercise since different owners will have different opinions on the subject.

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This is true for all species of animals. Before standards are set, everyone has different opinions on what is the best. And even after the standards are set, people will have different opinions on what is and is not the best. The standards only show that you can breed a certain type of animal a certain way, and you compete against other people who have the same goals. :gj:

I've said before, it won't stop people from breeding animals the way they want, and it won't force people to accept one snake as better than another. Just that when (for argument's sake) a black python is up against another black python, and the standard says the blackest one is prefered, that one gets awarded. People can breed the black pythons to be gray if they want, and even petition the club to get 'gray' approved as a variety. :)


I think a lot of the problems people are having with accepting a standard, is they seem to think it means that one snake is absolutely better than another (ie black vs gray). When it's not. It's just a goal that is set, and aimed for by people who want to reach the goal.

Even MOUSE breeders disagree, when the standards for mice were written over 100 years ago, and competitive breeding has been going on for upwards of 300 years. ;)

So your taking your mouse breeding and showing knowledge and trying to apply it to the ball pythons? I understand what your talking about. I understand how you think it will work. But to have a written code or standards to how a certain morph should look again wont work. The only people that will agree on such a standard wre those that like it one way when in fact there so many variants of each color morph.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

The only people that will agree on such a standard wre those that like it one way when in fact there so many variants of each color morph.

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People don't have to agree. That's what you're missing.
Didn't you say you were leaving the conversation? :P

How bout this. Just answer this question for me. Say you get a group od people together to come up with a standard for a certain color morph. What happens if noine can agree? What happens if half the people like blushing and half do not? How are you gonna write a standard?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Even MOUSE breeders disagree, when the standards for mice were written over 100 years ago, and competitive breeding has been going on for upwards of 300 years. ;)

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And herein lies the issue. Setting aside differences in opinion completely, ball python morphs have been bred for such a short period of time. Some people have been in it long enough, or have bought only top shelf stock and are consistently producing very nice animals, so they would be producing fairly obvious "nice" examples of whatever morphs they are producing. However, the 10-15 year period that is the morph craze just isn't a long enough time to set the standards. Who knows how much more refined some morphs may become with further selective breeding and line breeding? It could take many more years to really focus on and bring out some subtleties in some morphs, rather than just reproducing them for the obvious traits. It really blows my mind to hear it when people talk about balls already nearing the end of their popularity when so much more can be done. Maybe there won't be any more mind blowing morphs coming over from Africa, but there's more than enough in our hands now to work with for a long time. Point being, could ball python breeding be so young/fresh/new that we truly don't even know yet what "the standard" should be? I think something gets lost with so many people seemingly in a rush to at least stay with the curve...but think of what could be done with a pastel or a lesser with 20-30 more years of just working with a pastel or a lesser. It almost unfortunate that with ball pythons, NEW and MORE seems to far outweigh PERFECT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

How bout this. Just answer this question for me. Say you get a group od people together to come up with a standard for a certain color morph. What happens if noine can agree? What happens if half the people like blushing and half do not? How are you gonna write a standard?

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Coin flip tiebreaker...simple enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

How bout this. Just answer this question for me. Say you get a group od people together to come up with a standard for a certain color morph. What happens if noine can agree? What happens if half the people like blushing and half do not? How are you gonna write a standard?

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So are you under the impression that the color/pattern standards for rats/mice were just magically agreed upon because everybody liked the same thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

People don't have to agree. That's what you're missing.
Didn't you say you were leaving the conversation? :P

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If noone agrees then how can you set a standard? And who sets the standard? You? Someone who isnt even a ball python breeder?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Coin flip tiebreaker...simple enough.

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Rob thank you for your thoughts. You bring up a good point with the time line. even 5 years from now, we could see tons of new mutations.
A club can deal with this by allowing provisional standards to be shown, and eventually accepted.

It's not simple to answer your question about how to pick which one would be the standard, Snake lab. It would depend on how similar it is to other standards already in place, if it can be broken down into 2 categories, and in the end if nobody agrees on anything, it might be as silly as a coin toss! :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

If noone agrees then how can you set a standard? And who sets the standard? You? Someone who isnt even a ball python breeder?

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The presidents of the club set the standard. I'm sure they will make them in such a way that enough people agree with them to keep a good following of breeders. But in the end it's 100% up to the club owners to decide on standards. This is how all clubs work.

i think we should just do a "beauty pageant" with entry standards such as males/females, weight classes, photography methods and limitations of editing and whatever else by morph, weekly or monthly.

do it for a whole year and compare all the winners and use that as a guideline for setting standards or just forget about standards all together.

Lmao. This thread has really burned some brain cells for me. I keep trying to get away from it but it keeps pulling me back in. Arghhhhh

*facepalm*

People are TRULY overcomplicating this. Showing animals is about a group of people setting a standard, and then competing to meet that standard.
A) If someone doesn't like the standard, they simply don't join the club, and don't compete.
B) The standard can be revised if the majority of the club changes its mind.
C) If the people in the club can't agree on whether or not blushing is good in pastels, then they have 2 choices--allow both high and low blushing, or write 2 different standards, and declare 2 different versions of that morph (which is what we have done in the ball python community, by referring to animals as 'lemon pastel' or 'Graziani pastel'--people know what that means, basically).

You don't want to show ball pythons? Simple...you never join the club. You don't like their standard? No problem...you breed for a different look. Someone in the club doesn't like one of the standards? They can leave the club, or try to get the look they want listed as a standard for a new strain.

What is the purpose? Because people like to show off their creations, and people are competitive. It's purely for fun.

I can also imagine standard sizes being introduced--ball pythons above or below certain weights could be labeled 'miniature', 'standard', or 'giant', for example. Body shapes, tail lengths, etc, all could be selected for.

If people want to do it. All you need for this to happen is a group of people...say, maybe 10...who want to do it. Voila, it will be happening. It doesn't matter if 300 people hate it, if those 10 want to do it, they will do it, lol.

I'm not sure why folks are confused.

Breeding ball python morphs is about creating gorgeous animals through selective breeding. A show club would be about doing so in a more organized fashion, that's all. I can understand people not wanting to participate, but I don't quite get where the poo-poohing of the idea is coming from. It's bound to happen eventually. How long people have been breeding ball pythons is quite irrelevant to that.

Why? Because there is an enthusiastic following of people all across the US who show horses. Not living ones, mind you. Plastic horses. Some of them repainted, some of them original as the factory made them. They love their hobby, they love the competition and the social aspects of it, and they have a wall full of ribbons. They're not all teenaged girls, either.

If people will show plastic horses, it would be pretty absurd to think that they won't show ball pythons.