Humane way to euthanize rats?

I do know a guy around here that made a c02 chamber using a tank from a paintball tank. He changed the fitting. And a rubbermaid cooler. Seems to work for him. Hey spooky thanks for the info on the containers. Ill try and find some.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Wait wait, i got one. How bout letting the snake kill it and eat.

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I'm trying to let the snake kill and eat it, but thats not happened so far. I don't want to take care of rats-sorry, I just don't like them. So I wanted a good way of killing them that wouldn't make me feel sick...

I had done the bash them on the head method, but I hate doing it, 'cause I do agree that it is animal abuse... I dunno who gets it instantly, maybe I just can't swing that hard, but they always kick for a few minutes and it's pretty sad... :tears:

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

I'm trying to let the snake kill and eat it, but thats not happened so far. I don't want to take care of rats-sorry, I just don't like them. So I wanted a good way of killing them that wouldn't make me feel sick...

I had done the bash them on the head method, but I hate doing it, 'cause I do agree that it is animal abuse... I dunno who gets it instantly, maybe I just can't swing that hard, but they always kick for a few minutes and it's pretty sad... :tears:

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I would keep trying live if you can. since you only have one non-feeder for f/t it doesn't make sense to set up a co2 tank or run to the grocery store every week for dry ice. just stick with smaller, non-threatening meals if you can find a supply.

I will say that some snakes just change feeding behaviour. I have a tiny yellowbelly female who was feeding on live rat pups before she was shipped to me. I could not get her to eat for the life of me. I tried f/t, all assortments of live rats and mice, pre-killed...nothing. finally I had to resort to f/t adult mice, which she will only take if I physically drop it on her and close the tub for 15-20 minutes. every other snake from that same breeder took f/t rats within ten days, so it's just a craps shoot sometimes. be patient and try everything. also don't worry excessively. even when young, balls can go off feed without many issues. my yellowbelly will grow more slowly being so picky, but I'm in no hurry.

bottom line, if your pin was healthy when you got him, he'll be fine for a few weeks refusing food. the fastidious eaters always make you appreciate the hungry ones.

edit: for what it's worth, when prey is constricted, its death is far more humane than it would be when slammed against a wall or drowned. ultimately you have to do what you feel comfortable doing, but the general consensus is that a co2 chamber or flash freezing are the most humane alternatives to feeding live. (unless you're dealing with pinks, in which case freezing them is effective and humane). I think you mentioned not liking rats, but they are extremely intelligent and interesting animals. try to do what's best for them and for your reptiles.

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

I'm trying to let the snake kill and eat it, but thats not happened so far. I don't want to take care of rats-sorry, I just don't like them. So I wanted a good way of killing them that wouldn't make me feel sick...

I had done the bash them on the head method, but I hate doing it, 'cause I do agree that it is animal abuse... I dunno who gets it instantly, maybe I just can't swing that hard, but they always kick for a few minutes and it's pretty sad... :tears:

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Good news is, the kicking is probably just nerves firing after death. It happens quite commonly because it's the nerves firing sporadically after death that makes muscles twitch until all the oxygen in the cells runs out. They're clinically dead, they just keep... moving.

Still, gassing is the only humane way to kill any rodent. Despite the fact that they're not humans and they're not the smartest creature (mice anyways, rats are pretty smart) they don't deserve a traumatic, violent death any more than a human or cat or dog does. CO2 gassing is how veterinarians tend to euthanize hamsters or other small animals if the need for euthanization is there. Just as you don't hit your dog in the head with a rock to put it down if it's sick or old, you shouldn't bash a feeder animal against a table just because you can't afford dry ice (which is really cheap, by the way) and a tub. I'd feed a live rodent to a snake any day over a rodent I had to bash over the head (especially because I doubt my ability to kill a rodent in a single strike versus putting it in a CO2 chamber and waiting it out).

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Originally Posted by snake lab

I do know a guy around here that made a c02 chamber using a tank from a paintball tank. He changed the fitting. And a rubbermaid cooler. Seems to work for him. Hey spooky thanks for the info on the containers. Ill try and find some.

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10/4
spooky

I consulted with my mother who worked in a pharmaceutical lab with rats for 20 years and my sister who is a vet and they both gave me the same list in roughly the same order from most humane to least:

Vets and Scientists are under the highest scrutiny in terms of their requirement to act humanely towards these animals:

1. Phenobarbitol or Pheno + additives (sp?) shot
2. Guillotine (which isn't possible for us obviously)
3. Breaking the neck by pinning 2 fingers on the back of the neck at the base of the skull with the animal flat on a surface and giving a quick firm tug to the base of the tail
4. CO2 gas... this is how they euthanize many individuals

According to them, there aren't really any other ways that are 'humane.' They both had a VERY big problem with drowning. It's actually pretty horrifying to think that someone would have no moral issue with that while also being a pet owner himself.

Here's my 2 cents on bludgeoning them (putting them in a sack and wacking it). If you have the ability to kill the rat using this method, be humane and buy yourself a thick pair of leather gloves (if you're worried about getting bit?) and use the method listed at #3. It's significantly more humane and less messy/drawn out. If you're insistent on using this method, HIT IT VERY, VERY HARD - AS HARD AS YOU CAN WITHOUT MAKING IT EXPLODE (that's what she said).

As far as killing more than 1 at a time, it looks like CO2 is the ONLY method that is accepted by people who put a LOT more time looking into this issue than any of us ever will.


EDIT: My mom just called me back to make it clear that it's important to gas them for a while. If you CO2 them for too brief a period and they wake up in the freezer, this is probably the least humane of any of the methods in this thread.

Mr. Lang, as much as this subject does give me slight heeby jeebies (I just hate killing stuff, but I love my snakes...) your post made me LOL in a couple of points there. I know you were being totally serious, and it's every bit more helpful than funny, but you def lightened my mood on it...

Heres just a thought. If its rats ya wanna kill. Why not just buy frozen to start with. I would think it would be alot easier and cheaper. I personally feed live cause i breed my own and have em coming out of my ears right now but if i wasnt breeding my own id sure go to frozen fer sure

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Heres just a thought. If its rats ya wanna kill. Why not just buy frozen to start with. I would think it would be alot easier and cheaper. I personally feed live cause i breed my own and have em coming out of my ears right now but if i wasnt breeding my own id sure go to frozen fer sure

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I get frozen for my boy who eats them, but my pin (I've had for 3 weeks) hasn't eaten anything for me yet. He was, however, eating live before I got him, so that's what I'm going with til he eats and I can switch him over. F/T is def my personal preference- just like I like my frozen chicken... I don't want to kill anything myself! I really don't!

3 weeks really isnot enough time to worry about. keep trying F/T and different methods. and possibabaly save yourself some heart ache in the future.
spooky

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

I get frozen for my boy who eats them, but my pin (I've had for 3 weeks) hasn't eaten anything for me yet. He was, however, eating live before I got him, so that's what I'm going with til he eats and I can switch him over. F/T is def my personal preference- just like I like my frozen chicken... I don't want to kill anything myself! I really don't!

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how big is your new pin? whats the temps?

have you thought about breeding season and a lot of balls go off feed? just as long as your offering once a week youll be fine, i wouldnt go through all this hassle.. if a snakes hungry it will eat regardless if its live of FT

Yes, I had thought about breeding season. He's a year and a half, and I reckon that could be a factor. The ambient temp is 84-87, basking temp is 92ish, cold side is between 75-80. I don't know his weight, but he's a pretty big boy. It's really not a hassle, but I do need to euth the rats that he doesn't eat.
Also, I'm truly not worried about the snake. I'm worried about the rats! As much as I don't particularly car for them, I don't want them to die with a lot of pain.

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

Yes, I had thought about breeding season. He's a year and a half, and I reckon that could be a factor. The ambient temp is 84-87, basking temp is 92ish, cold side is between 75-80. I don't know his weight, but he's a pretty big boy. It's really not a hassle, but I do need to euth the rats that he doesn't eat.
Also, I'm truly not worried about the snake. I'm worried about the rats! As much as I don't particularly car for them, I don't want them to die with a lot of pain.

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every place around me takes back mice and rats that dont get eatten, i would check your local source and see if they do the same..

You know, I'd never even considered asking! I wouldn't even need a refund, just another rat next week. :rolleye2: Is that ok to do with a snake that's in qt?

To be honest?


No, not really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I consulted with my mother who worked in a pharmaceutical lab with rats for 20 years and my sister who is a vet and they both gave me the same list in roughly the same order from most humane to least:

Vets and Scientists are under the highest scrutiny in terms of their requirement to act humanely towards these animals:

1. Phenobarbitol or Pheno + additives (sp?) shot
2. Guillotine (which isn't possible for us obviously)
3. Breaking the neck by pinning 2 fingers on the back of the neck at the base of the skull with the animal flat on a surface and giving a quick firm tug to the base of the tail
4. CO2 gas... this is how they euthanize many individuals

According to them, there aren't really any other ways that are 'humane.' They both had a VERY big problem with drowning. It's actually pretty horrifying to think that someone would have no moral issue with that while also being a pet owner himself.

Here's my 2 cents on bludgeoning them (putting them in a sack and wacking it). If you have the ability to kill the rat using this method, be humane and buy yourself a thick pair of leather gloves (if you're worried about getting bit?) and use the method listed at #3. It's significantly more humane and less messy/drawn out. If you're insistent on using this method, HIT IT VERY, VERY HARD - AS HARD AS YOU CAN WITHOUT MAKING IT EXPLODE (that's what she said).

As far as killing more than 1 at a time, it looks like CO2 is the ONLY method that is accepted by people who put a LOT more time looking into this issue than any of us ever will.


EDIT: My mom just called me back to make it clear that it's important to gas them for a while. If you CO2 them for too brief a period and they wake up in the freezer, this is probably the least humane of any of the methods in this thread.

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this :P