Questions about breeding rats

Maybe it's just with my bottles but if you cut a hole or the top off wouldn't the water just run right out?
It seems like I'm always replacing water bottles at my house bc one rat will chew a little hole in the top
Or bottom and I repair it with plumbers putty for a bit. (it's like this non toxic gum stuff) but if the gum isn't perfect on the ones with little holes the water just runs out of the metal spigot.


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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Maybe it's just with my bottles but if you cut a hole or the top off wouldn't the water just run right out?
It seems like I'm always replacing water bottles at my house bc one rat will chew a little hole in the top
Or bottom and I repair it with plumbers putty for a bit. (it's like this non toxic gum stuff) but if the gum isn't perfect on the ones with little holes the water just runs out of the metal spigot.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Oh. Maybe. I guess it varies between bottles. Some require a vacuum. But they do sell topless water bottles. My friend has one for her ferrets. It has a removable cap. I'm sure it'll make filling water much more easier for a colony. I have a small breeding group, so I don't mind filling water.

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On a lot of the plastic bottles if there's any sort of hole all the water runs out the sipper. Get a watering system. It won't cost much more than bottles and you'll save hours of time.

Leaky bottle? It's likely NOT the sipper.

Buy these: http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-01RW-R.../dp/B000NCWP44

Replace them, and it won't leak anymore.

Also if they chew a hole in the bottle, repair it with hot glue from a glue gun.

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

Leaky bottle? It's likely NOT the sipper.

Buy these: http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-01RW-R.../dp/B000NCWP44

Replace them, and it won't leak anymore.

Also if they chew a hole in the bottle, repair it with hot glue from a glue gun.

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I think you misunderstood.

If a bottle has a hole cut in it, the water will run out the sipper. It's not the sipper leaking, it's the lack of vacuum. If you've ever had a rat chew a hole in the bottle, you know what I mean. I used to use bottles, I'm much happier and have less time spent filling water containers with the auto system.

Yes I'm dying to do my watering system. That is the crap I'm dealing with now. Sucks huge
I think even with the removable cap bottles it still vaccum seals after the cap is screwed back on.


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Originally Posted by wilomn

I think you misunderstood.

If a bottle has a hole cut in it, the water will run out the sipper. It's not the sipper leaking, it's the lack of vacuum. If you've ever had a rat chew a hole in the bottle, you know what I mean. I used to use bottles, I'm much happier and have less time spent filling water containers with the auto system.

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Ohhh okay, I get it now. But same idea, if the washer isn't sealing correctly, the same thing will happen as if there were a hole somewhere in the bottle.

The washer trick was just told to me by my rodent supplier, saved me throwing out a whole bunch of bottles!

Water bottle that do not have a spring and ball require a vacuum, ie, no hole in the bottle or it will leak...

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Yes I'm dying to do my watering system. That is the crap I'm dealing with now. Sucks huge
I think even with the removable cap bottles it still vaccum seals after the cap is screwed back on.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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It's not a screw on top. The top just pops open.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...jDp1OPek6beYdQ

No matter. I agree. For larger colonies, an automatic system works well.

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1) how many cages should I start out with?
It looks to me like you are feeding 4-8 rats per week to your collection. This means that you really need one litter per week in order to supply your collection. It takes about 28 days from the time it gives birth to one litter to give birth to the next litter if you don't pull moms. So, you would need AT LEAST four mother rats.

2) will 1.4 be good in the breeding cages?
When you have more females in with your male it takes him longer to breed them. For instance, rats go into estrus every few days. If the male has one female to breed he breeds her on the first estrus every time. If he has two to breed he usually gets both of them on the first estrus. Once you get to four he usually starts missing one or two until the second estrus. This may not mean much to you, but babies that are 7 to 10 days older will always outcompete their younger brothers and sisters for a nipple. When there is a great disparity in baby size you start to lose babies. I would recommend that you run 1.2 per tub because you need so few.

3) do males fight with each other even if the cage is free from females?
Males can live forever in the same cage if they are never used for breeding. Rats that are raised together with RARELY ever fight. In fact, if you raise two males to breeding size and you never separate them they will be completely fine if you add females later. I have found this to be true 99% of the time.

4) after how many litters should I stop breeding a female?
I leave mine in production for 48 weeks. I start them in production at 16 weeks. They are culled at 64 weeks of age. I hope that she has produced 12 litters for me and then she is culled.

5) do females accept other litters than their own in the same cage?
Females will feed whatever babies she can find for the most part. Rats are great foster moms. The main problem is when you get too many babies with one mom, or when you get babies that are too far apart in size/age nursing at the same time. The larger stronger babies will cause the smaller younger babies to starve some times.

6) about how long does it take for a rat to grow about 100grams?
I would say around four or five weeks to reach 100 grams. Really, they should be almost 100 grams by weaning time. If there are a lot of pups in the litter they are usually smaller, but they grow quickly once they start eating.

If this is something that you are serious about you should not hesitate to build a rack. I would suggest a six level Jumbo litter box rack for you. You can also go ahead and splurge on the auto waterer.

Since 100 grams looks like the largest size you need I am going to suggest something that might sound strange to you now, but I think could be very effective for you.

Place 1.1 rats in the first four tubs. Use the bottom two tubs for growing out replacement breeders. Setting it up this way will let you really produce babies quickly. When the male has only one female to contend with she gets bred whether she wants to or not LOL. The babies will all be the same time. There will be no other mom trying to steal babies away. Your result should be never losing a pup (or 99+% survival rate) and large, fat, healthy weaned rats.

This system couldn't get any easier.

Open your tubs every day. If there is a little of pinks in with older rats you know that the oldest ones are ready to be pulled to wean. You just pull your tubs out on feeding day, take out what you need, and free the rest off as they get to weaning size.

I go on and on in a post like this every few months. Good luck.

Thanks a lot Tom ! When you say I should have 1.1 in four tubs, do you mean I never should pick out the male and let them breed all the time?

Also for you guys who suggested to buy a rat rack: we don't have those things where I live. It's the same thing when it comes to snake racks. Seriously, swedes buy their racks in ikea. Pretty sad :P

I was thinking that 1 litter each week should be good. Thanks !

You can build a rat rack. All you need for the set up Tom is suggesting is kitty liter pans(large ones) and lumber and wire mesh and screws. There's a few DIY threads detailing how to build them too. You could be the envy of everyone with the first rat rack. And they are so much easier to clean, take up less space... you'd love them.

Here's my advice, and I've been breeding at least 2000 rats for at least 3 years now.

You should ALWAYS separate each female if possible (tubs permitting) and their litter so other females don't fight over the babies. Your yield will be much higher than putting mulitple females together at once. Cat litter pans are the best for maternity racks. If you are going to house multiple females together make sure that they don't fight over the babies and if you catch them fighting over them separate the moms that were fighting and leave the rest.

You should NEVER feed dog food or swine food to a rat. It's not designed for them. Yes it can save you money, but the money you save you will most definitely spend in rats replacing the ones you kill feeding it.

You should retire females after about 6-8 months of breeding. Eventually their litter size will drop below 8 and they are worhtless at that point.

A good ratio is 1.8 per week.

You should clean your rats AT LEAST once a week. Healthy rats = Healthy snakes.

Contrary to popular belief you can house 2 males together in a tub of females, they just have to have been raised their entire lives together otherwise they'll fight. But we do it all the time with semi-lazy breeders.

If you ever find a chewer. Euthenise it immediately. It will not only chew tubs, but teach the other rats how to chew. So it's in your best interest to get rid of any chewers as soon as they are found.

You can also use flax seed to get rid of tumors in rats (just have a strong stomach). After a couple weeks of tossing flax up there when you feed you'll notice that the tumors begin to fester and puss. But eventually they will just fall off and the wound will close. It's best to separate rats that have festering tumors and best to keep them on something like equine pine that stays dryer longer.

This is my advice. You can take it for what it's worth. I produce somwhere between 100-400 rats per week give or take depending on the time of year (dead of winter and heat of summer are the slowest times).

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

Here's my advice, and I've been breeding at least 2000 rats for at least 3 years now.

You should ALWAYS separate each female if possible (tubs permitting) and their litter so other females don't fight over the babies. Your yield will be much higher than putting mulitple females together at once. Cat litter pans are the best for maternity racks. If you are going to house multiple females together make sure that they don't fight over the babies and if you catch them fighting over them separate the moms that were fighting and leave the rest.

This is my advice. You can take it for what it's worth. I produce somwhere between 100-400 rats per week give or take depending on the time of year (dead of winter and heat of summer are the slowest times).

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I agree that separating moms produces more live babies but at what cost.

How long does it take you to clean all of the tubs each week?

Do you do it alone or do you have help?

Do you empty/wash/disinfect each tub? If not, how do you clean?

Thanks.

My plan is to buy 2.8 rats and go with 1.4 ratio. I don't feed live so when I get 4 litters I let them grow and then at the right size I freeze them. That should feed my snakes for about 2 months. Later on I will keep some females and get a larger rat breeding group.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I agree that separating moms produces more live babies but at what cost.

How long does it take you to clean all of the tubs each week?

Do you do it alone or do you have help?

Do you empty/wash/disinfect each tub? If not, how do you clean?

Thanks.

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I have not seen a reply to this. I'm really curious.

Thanks.

I have a great mom who has a large tumor on her chest. I want to try the flax seed, but how much to give? Just give a handful in addition to her food?

The reason I won't seperate moms with their litters is space. I don't have space for that many individual pans, and my moms don't fight over the babies, they just share.

Cleaning is very important in my mind. Not just "Oh you don't want the smell" but the rats don't need to be walking in their feces and breathing all that ammonia either. I clean once a week and then clean anyone during the week(usually if they have larger babies). I do need a better system to keep track of EVERYTHING in each bin. Right now I'm taping bits of paper to the front of each bin with the 1.3 15 babies 1/21 info. It's inefficient and a pain, but so far it's ok. The issue comes when I go to take care of rats, don't know what the date is but find a new litter... I guess I could put a calander in the room, but it just seems like there should be a better way.

To keep track of genetics, take a picture of each animal and add it to a private (or open folder) in Facebook, iherp, etc. Give it a name and add it's parentage/genetics to the description.

As far as keeping track with who is in what tub, use index cards or buy a Brother P-touch labeling system. You can get one for around $18.

Adding flaxseed is fine. If she's a favorite though, take her to the vet and have it removed. They usually won't charge too much to remove a tumor on a rat. Otherwise, when you see it start messing with the quality of her life, euthanize her.

You might want to try a supplement with Resveratrol (those wine supplement pills) in it. While I don't think studies have shown it to help humans, they have shown to help rodents. Dosage varies, but it's hard to overdose even a rodent on them. Try just mixing a small amount in their water bottle.

The tumor doesn't seem to bother her any. I can't get a decent picture out of every 100 pictures of rats, so I can't get pic IDs, and with more than one mom, it's impossible to track each rat's production, so I have to track bin production.

Index cards pretty much = pieces of paper with the info. So I guess what I've got is the same. It just seems less efficient than it could be. If I had individual mom tubs, I could track each rat, but I'm tracking what # of babies is in each tub now.

My vet mentioned $300 for surgery on a rat to remove a tumor(talking to me in passing about another rat he'd done surgery on, not discussing doing one of my rats). He's pretty pricy, for anything. The other vet I use won't work on a rat at all. But I'll ask my vet to see if he'd charge less for any reason. But if feeding flaxseed makes it drain and go away, that's way cheaper than surgery and easier on the rat.

Wolfy, if you want to consider a tumor removal we have an excellent vet down in Orlando that is less than $100 for surgery. We just had one of my older girls down there about a month ago, we came home with tumor removed, on pain meds and he prescribed me antibiotics because she is one that seems to stress into URI's. Go figure, she did fine after her surgery and they weren't necessary.

He does a LOT of rats for the pedigree breeders and they have him trained well:)

I appreciate that! I'll try the flax and see how it goes. It's always wonderful to have another option. Thank you.

disinfect cages? WOW!!!

baking soda the bottom, add bedding and dump out every 7 days. Why do people make keeping animals sound so darn hard?

One thing I do is pull pinks the first day, maybe 2, an again two more a week later. This I feel helps the mom alot. I then wean the largest of the babies at 3-4 weeks and leave one or two a few days longer. This helps reduce milk production slowly and makes the moms more comfortable. Since I nursed I feel for the mom of huge litters that all get pulled at once, Ouch! If I am keeping some for breeders, they stay with mom til 5-6 weeks with no male in with. The less stress the better for best growth.
*Fila*