USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.ph...00002017717005

Read that...

I can't get in because I don't have a facebook account. Can someone copy and paste?

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

I can't get in because I don't have a facebook account. Can someone copy and paste?

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Sorry, :(

We need to calm down because we need to do some research on this bill. The letter I recived from the senator said that the bill was not passed through the house and is being pushed through committee. That means that the senate has not voted or passed the bill. They are basically approving what animals will go on the bill. Its not supposed to be voted on until feburay 3rd. Nothings gone through, we still have a chanc to fight this. Everyone needs to keep a level head, think about what they're going to say, and don't make the industry look bad.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

Sorry, :(

We need to calm down because we need to do some research on this bill. The letter I recived from the senator said that the bill was not passed through the house and is being pushed through committee. That means that the senate has not voted or passed the bill. They are basically approving what animals will go on the bill. Its not supposed to be voted on until feburay 3rd. Nothings gone through, we still have a chanc to fight this. Everyone needs to keep a level head, think about what they're going to say, and don't make the industry look bad.

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The bill he has posted on his page is from 2009...It was shot down in both the Senate and House in the last congressional sessions. Effectively killing it until it could be re-introduced in a new form in the present session. Which it hasn't been... so far.

What Senator Nelson did was circumvent any Congressional involvment by using the Department of the Interior and FWS to push his agenda forward. NO vote required.


He just also happens to be up for re-election this year. What better way to garner votes from the old retirees in Florida than to get rid of the giant lap-dog eating burmeses python.

American politics is fun ain't it.:O

I am also amazed USARK was able to get the 5 others atleast postponed on such short notice.

Seems like this has been a done deal between the agencies and Mr. Nelson for awhile.

Can I just quickly state that I am beginning to dislike living in Florida, if only for all the issues with reptiles.

On another note, having been a part of Student Government in a University, I have learned a great deal about how things happen and why. Basically, those in power do everything they can to push legislation through which they approve of, and to quash anything they dislike. If presented eloquently enough, the sheep they are preaching to simply listen to the demands and poor explanation, then vote accordingly. Valid questions centered on specifics and legality are often answered with confidently stated falsehoods, which people then take to be true since the individual "obviously knew what he/she was talking about". My mentor once told me, "If you say it convincingly enough, and act like you know what you're talking about, they'll believe you. And almost no one will go to the trouble to check and prove you wrong. So just speak confidently and you're golden." That bit of advice still sickens me a bit. :mad:

I'm sure this applies in state and federal government as well. Frankly, the political agenda of most politicians is disgusting. It is typically centered around pushing their own agenda and interests with blatant disregard for the feelings and voice of the populace.

So this is in no way shape or form a win for us or anyone who owns "exotic" animals. This is a major defeat.
This is devastating.
An unimaginable gain for those who oppose the rights/freedoms of others. There are many people who would love to see all exotics and pets banned. They have the money and the time to win their fight. Sooner or later, they WILL WIN.
How long do you think it is going to take for the other 5 to be put on the list?
Now that those 4 have been put on the list how long will it be before states ban them as well? It is much easier now for each state to say "If they are illegal to be imported/exported or to cross state lines, why have them at all?"

Ball Pythons will be next just because they are PYTHONS. People are ignorant of the fact that they only get 4'- 5' long. People hear Python and think of "Giant" man eating snakes. All Pythons get 50' long right?

Count me as someone who doesn't see the glass half full. I see a full glass that is now almost half empty, with nothing but a delay until all the water is sucked out.

Boas are established in the Everglades - so why were they excluded? Well, money talks - and boas are still big business.

This is just a beachhead on a broader front. Anyone who thinks of this as a victory does not understand tactics. They just stole the rights from the breeders and keepers of 4 species with plans on doing more damage in the future.

The broader front:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...?121+ful+SB477

Read it.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/...N/IN1288.1.pdf

We aren't "winning". The inevitable has been delayed - big difference. Plus, I wonder why USARK threw in that half truth about the smelt.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...tists-20120106

The smelt scientists were eventually cleared. Looks like the Federal government aren't the only ones guilty of spreading info that is questionable.

In no way shape or form is this a victory at all. Usark did not save anything they may of delayed it but its still not passed they WILL add the rest. I for one pray they put boas back on the list becuase thats the only way any of us large keepers have ANY chance at winning this. The reptile community needs to get over there dollar signs and remember that there are still people in this hobby that keep these animals becuase we love them. I dont want to live in south carolina forever but if this passes I will have no choice because I will die before I give up my pets. They are a part of my family and we fight for our family. I dont keep boas other then anacondas but I would fight for you guys. I dont keep colubrids but I would fight for you to. We have to stick together this is bigger then just burmese pythons! Once they get these they will be back for yours to. We need to stop throwing the large snakes, venomous snakes, large monitors , and crocs under the bus and stand up and fight together because regardless if you keep them or not its still your RIGHT to have a choice to keep them! Please help us fight this we dont stand a chance alone. They have no idea how big this industry is. Its time to show them!

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Originally Posted by Denial

In no way shape or form is this a victory at all. Usark did not save anything they may of delayed it but its still not passed they WILL add the rest. I for one pray they put boas back on the list becuase thats the only way any of us large keepers have ANY chance at winning this. The reptile community needs to get over there dollar signs and remember that there are still people in this hobby that keep these animals becuase we love them. I dont want to live in south carolina forever but if this passes I will have no choice because I will die before I give up my pets. They are a part of my family and we fight for our family. I dont keep boas other then anacondas but I would fight for you guys. I dont keep colubrids but I would fight for you to. We have to stick together this is bigger then just burmese pythons! Once they get these they will be back for yours to. We need to stop throwing the large snakes, venomous snakes, large monitors , and crocs under the bus and stand up and fight together because regardless if you keep them or not its still your RIGHT to have a choice to keep them! Please help us fight this we dont stand a chance alone. They have no idea how big this industry is. Its time to show them!

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Another great post Denial.. We do need to unite, but it seems like you said, they only people that care are the owns that own the species being banded..

I myself take a lot of concern on any speices of snakes that could possibly be banned. I'm a owner of just one ball python, but I could imgaine the pain of the owners who own any of the others. Trust me I too feel the pain. Just like others have stated this would not be the beginning of snake bans, if this does pass. Before we know it corn snakes would be added onto the list!

I am losing all hope in America these days. There is NO candidate that is not a weasel. None of the politicians have the middle working class in mind. It is all for their own agenda. In my opinion we need to run this country like it used to be, instead of this political BS. There is no candidate in my mind that will save us from the right infringement that is coming.

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Originally Posted by USARK.Jonathan.Brady

USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!
This morning a joint press conference was held by Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, Interior Dept Director, Ken Salazar; and US Fish & Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe at Everglades National Park (ENP) to make an Everglades conservation and preservation announcement. It was made public that a final rule would be enacted by FWS potentially restricting trade in 9 constricting snakes. Although there had been no word from FWS or White House oversight officials prior to the press conference, Andrew Wyatt CEO USARK, learned of a “rumor” on the “HILL” that there would be an announcement regarding the Constrictor Listing; a listing of 9 constricting snakes to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. This is an action that could destroy $104 million per year in small business while potentially making more than 1 million Americans into Lacey Act felons. This action has now come to pass; albeit in a more limited fashion than was pushed by FWS and the powerful environmental and animal rights lobby.

As of now the Constrictor Rule, when enacted, will BAN the IMPORT and INTERSTATE TRANSPORT of the following 4 species: Burmese python, Northern African python, Southern African python and yellow anaconda.

USARK will be making further announcements regarding potential legal remedy to the flagrant disregard for “science”, due process, or information quality standards by FWS and the Obama Administration. This is a clear example of policy being based on staff preference combined with political considerations, rather than clear science and due process. The FWS failed at every level to make a solid case for justifying a Lacey Act listing. How the White House can justify this train wreck of a rule to pass is a mystery. In the opinion of USARK the actions of FWS are arbitrary, capricious and unlawful. That is not a charge that is unfamiliar to FWS. In 2010 FWS scientists were found guilty of falsifying information to manufacture science to support a rule on the Delta Smelt in the Central Valley of California. FWS was found guilty of being “arbitrary, capricious and unlawful" in their effort to add the controversial fish to the Endangered Species Act. USARK will pursue available legal remedy to this travesty of justice and blatant misuse of the Lacey Act. The Lacey Act was the wrong tool for the wrong reason.

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I'm having a hard time reconciling the title of this thread with this:

http://www.fws.gov/home/feature/2012...sQsAs11612.pdf

A couple of questions for the mob or from someone at USARK:

How did USARK save 5 of 9 species? I'm reading the report and it looks like the decision on the final 4 species were made solely from the USGS survey. So, again, what role did USARK play in saving the 5 species? My apologies in advance if I missed some critical data.

Second question:

With regards to the section I bolded and italicized, please reconcile your statement with this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...tists-20120106

In which the FWS was cleared of all charges.

It's one thing to accuse the Federal government of spreading false data. It's another thing to do it yourself.

Agreed^. I dont understand how usark did anything through this entire process other then nake a ton of money from contributors. And i wonder how gregg grazianni feels after having his stupid reality show basically spearhead the fears of big snakes in the glades. Stupid stupid stupid. You would think a big player in the industry would have nothing to do with portraying the industry jn a negative manner.

This should have gone through Congress. We currently have an executive branch that uses every loophole they can find to get around Congress. This is not the only time this has happened. He's even gone so far to say that he's willing to do so to get things done when Congress disagrees with him. This is abuse of power at its finest. They aren't listening to us. Doesn't matter how many letters we write - they will ignore them. There is an election coming up very soon. If you are 18 or older then you had better get out and let your voice be heard. If you don't vote, then don't gripe. Do your homework and look at the candidates that are pro-business. Those are the ones that you need to be voting for.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

This should have gone through Congress. We currently have an executive branch that uses every loophole they can find to get around Congress. This is not the only time this has happened. He's even gone so far to say that he's willing to do so to get things done when Congress disagrees with him. This is abuse of power at its finest. They aren't listening to us. Doesn't matter how many letters we write - they will ignore them. There is an election coming up very soon. If you are 18 or older then you had better get out and let your voice be heard. If you don't vote, then don't gripe. Do your homework and look at the candidates that are pro-business. Those are the ones that you need to be voting for.

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"Pro-business"? You mean like the democrats & republicans who were trying so hard to pass SOPA/PIPA?

If you're not voting for libertarians you're throwing your vote away. The two mainstream parties are both owned completely by special interests. They do don't care what the people think, or how their rules effect them. Look at how many supported the bailouts knowing full well that the people didn't want it.

SOPA? Even in the wake of the entire planet voicing their disgust at the idea, they are insisting they still need to do something similar and just need to find a way to sneak it through. How many times have we seen someone from Congress in the last 48 hours say that SOPA "isn't ready"? Not "It isn't a good idea" but "It isn't ready"! Did no one notice that they picked the day after the black out protest to launch an international manhunt to round up & detain the executives behind megaupload while simultaneously taking down the website? It was to send a message "We will do what we want, and find a way to do it."

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Originally Posted by sgath92

"Pro-business"? You mean like the democrats & republicans who were trying so hard to pass SOPA/PIPA?

If you're not voting for libertarians you're throwing your vote away. The two mainstream parties are both owned completely by special interests. They do don't care what the people think, or how their rules effect them. Look at how many supported the bailouts knowing full well that the people didn't want it.

SOPA? Even in the wake of the entire planet voicing their disgust at the idea, they are insisting they still need to do something similar and just need to find a way to sneak it through. How many times have we seen someone from Congress in the last 48 hours say that SOPA "isn't ready"? Not "It isn't a good idea" but "It isn't ready"! Did no one notice that they picked the day after the black out protest to launch an international manhunt to round up & detain the executives behind megaupload while simultaneously taking down the website? It was to send a message "We will do what we want, and find a way to do it."

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I don't recall anywhere mentioning to vote for either party. Why don't you re-read what I said? I said to vote for candidates that are pro-business. I don't care what party they belong to, Libertarian included. And yes, the candidates that voted for SOPA and PIPA need to go as well.

I am sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were saying republican by "pro-business" but in American politics the two phrases are often used interchangeably and I wanted to show the distinction; particularly when some of the support for this ban came from FL-republicans.

If things keep taking a turn for the worse, I might have to eventually start looking for another place of residence.

I wonder what other countries are big on freedoms? Particularly my reptiles. :gj: