U.S. set to approve python ban

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Exactly! Obviously there aren't any that can be found now.. The cold snap did precisely what we thought it would do...
http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...ons.vanish.cnn

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they know whats up, they all hid.

I am surprised no one has taken a religious stance on this. Or at least no one has to my knowledge.

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

I am not overly religious myself, but it seems like this would be a good point for fodder.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

The reply I got after sending my letters last week... I wonder how many other of our reps had absolutely no idea that this was going on??

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Thank you for contacting me concerning the Lacey Act. I appreciate knowing your thoughts on this matter.

The Lacey Act was signed into law in 1900. It was the first federal law designed to protect wildlife and is administered by the Departments of Interior, Commerce, and Agriculture (USDA). Over the past century, the law has been amended several times to expand protection to a broader range of flora and fauna, and to control the potentially dangerous introduction of non-native species.

Most recently, the bill was amended by the 2008 Farm Bill to prohibit the import of illegally logged timber and timber products. This amendment included language from the Combat Illegal Logging Act of 2007, which was written to help curb illegal logging practices abroad by eliminating offenders’ access to the U.S. market.

I appreciate your concerns regarding the scope of the Lacey Act. Although no legislation has been introduced that would amend or defund the Lacey Act, I will keep your views in mind in case the matter is considered by the Senate in the future.

Again, thank you for your message. Please feel free to stay in touch on issues of importance to you.
Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator

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Monica:

Durbin the Richard is an idiot.

One of his aides did a crappy job of reading your inquiry.

This is his "stance" on constrictors and the Lacey Act:

http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...ic=1288.0;wap2

http://www.usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&p=464

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Durbin the Richard is an idiot.

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Damn Skip! You always have some kind of clever response!:rofl:

Btw, for those of you in this thread who think this means BCIs and all that you are wrong....http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nstrictor-Rule!

I was able to read the original link in this thread and get from the article that this act will only take import of Burms and Rocks away. Do I approve of it, no! Am I happy it doesn't include Boas and Balls, yes! Either way, we as Americans have to protect the land we live in and these two big snakes have proved to be injurious and are destroying our ecosystem. Get angry at me if you want but I somewhat agree with what they are doing. Also, these snakes are not for 90% of the people who are on this forum anyway. Especially with some of the threads I see posted by some people. Tally Ho!

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Monica:

Durbin the Richard is an idiot.

One of his aides did a crappy job of reading your inquiry.

This is his "stance" on constrictors and the Lacey Act:

http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...ic=1288.0;wap2

http://www.usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&p=464

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Well wth.. Nothing but a bunch of DEET DA DEEEEE's working there I see..

I did send a rather informed reply explaining how and why he/she/it/they were wrong regarding the reply I was sent.. Hopefully the "aid" reads it and gets my "here's your sign"...

Here are some thought to ponder about this subject.

1. This is a Florida problem exclusively and should be handled in Florida by Florida law. You don't punish the entire nation for a local problem.
2. This is being pushed by Bill Nelson Senator of Florida, PETA and HSUS.
3. Politicians operate based on action reaction. If they ban these and there is no adverse reaction then they continue banning others believing they are safe from public backlash because they believe they are either doing this unnoticed or no one cares. It also ingratiates them to their supporters in PETA and HSUS.
4. Regardless of your view on the keeping of large animals this issue cannot be ignored with the idea that because your animals are not on the list you are safe.
5. I believe, based on the information I have been given, that this was a test to see if any one cares enough to make this a huge issue. If they can slide this under the radar then more may be on the way.... So please do your part to "Turn up the heat" and let them know this shouldn't happen in a free country. "At least its somewhat free for now!!!"

The whole 'proven to be injurious' thing? No.

Actually, there was some evidence to suggest that the Burms were replacing missing mid-level predators in the Everglades...taking up the slack for waning populations of bobcat, for example.
What impact does that have? Well, Burms eat a lot of smaller predators, such as opossums, raccoons, rabbits, etc.
THOSE animals eat a lot of small rodents, bird nestlings, and are quite fond of reptile eggs, which they sniff out and dig up. The small, rapidly-reproducing herbivores like rabbits destroy a lot of vegetation.
So, the presence of the Burmese is helpful to native turtles, snakes, and probably even alligators, in spite of the few they might eat. (In turn, large alligators eat Burms).

So, while they are an invasive species in the Everglades, the idea that they are 'injurious' is pure speculation. Yes, a snake ate a couple of endangered rats. They are rats. Lots of things eat rats--gators, birds of prey, native snakes...the missing bobcats....
Hopefully you see the point.

Burmese pythons don't even rate in the top 100 threats to the Everglades. The most horrendously damaging invasive species in the Everglades are very non-sensational and non-photogenic...they're plants.
As has been pointed out many times, the domestic cat is one of the most terrible invasives in the country, and it certainly does a heck of lot more damage to the Everglades than the Burmese python could ever hope to.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

Can you prove how many Burmese are they? No. There aren't a lot there especially after the cold snap... and for you to simply say that is horrid. The ban should.be on.importing. Florida can do what it wants but it shouldn't be able to control the entire u.s. it's just showing yet again how close we are to the second revolution in the u.s.... time.to.move.to Canada....

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Can you prove how many there aren't?
They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle.
"hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?"
This problem is a product of our own carelessness, and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by MikeJuggles

Can you prove how many there aren't?
They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle.
"hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?"
This problem is a product of our own carelessness, and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem.

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So you don't think the genetics studies that link them back to the hurricane that flattened the warehouses of many repltile importers have any validity?

This wasn't caused by people releasing pets. At all.


dr del

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Originally Posted by MikeJuggles

They do not come from this part of the world.

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It is revisionist science fiction to propose that animals are "static" based on geography and do not move without human intervention from point A to point B. Animals end up in strange places all the time by natural means. Just recently an asian duck from China ended up in California. It got lost and flew here. In anthropology there is a theory that humans came to north america only because they were following prey items like the wooly mammoths that had extended their range into the region.

Non-native is a political term, political because not everything that is "non-native" is "injurious." There is a colony of conures in Parrot Hill in San Francisco. Are they "native" to the area? Hell no. But they have been there for decades, going on a century, without posing any environmental problem to the area.

Nonetheless these HSUS/ETA type freaks pleaded to the city to pay to have them all rounded up and killed. There was no scientific justification for this request. Simply put it was "they aren't native so kill them all." Independent research of a few residents eventually confirmed that the birds weren't a problem and for that reason the council ultimately decided not to go through with the euthanasia.

In Florida's case this is about MONEY. These bureaucrats want our tax dollars in the form of grants to "investigate" the python problem and then "fix" the python problem. Except they don't want to truly "fix" the python problem because if they do that they'll have to find something else to do for aliving. Whether the problem is really a problem to begin with is besides the point; if it's not a problem then they have one less thing to do to justify their jobs & budgets.

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Originally Posted by dr del

So you don't think the genetics studies that link them back to the hurricane that flattened the warehouses of many repltile importers have any validity?

This wasn't caused by people releasing pets. At all.


dr del

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Thanks Del. :)

I'll ad to this. :rolleyes:

No, pet owners did not release ALL the burms, only SOME most are from the facilty that had anywhere from 600-1,000 Hatchlings Now because I have a feeling you're hard headed think about this... I have a 6 foot Burm. He's a docile and calm little guy, my cat even clawed him once and he didn't do anything. Now lets say this, I release him.... What's he going to do? He's been babied all his life and he see's me as his "shelter" his "mom" Snakes aren't as dumb as people think.

Let's go bigger.. I let loose a 15 or 20 foot snake. Okay.. so now a snake that is even OLDER and has been through the same thing all his life would have no idea what to do... What's is it to do? The poor snake would most likely freak out and have little to no idea what to do. Why? because we've taken care of them all there lives. The two CBB that were raised would most likely be eaten by a alligator before they even had a chance to get a single meal/

Now let's see the thing with a baby.. The baby has little to no idea what to do, even being captive bred it hasn't developed enough in our care to be able to know it will always get food. Now a little hurricane somes through and releases them.. Instincts will kick in because of how young they are and some will survive it is inevitable.

Now i'm going to take apart your quote....

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Originally Posted by MikeJuggles

Can you prove how many there aren't? 1. NO I can not prove how many there are, it's IMPOSSIBLE to know exactly, but there is now bloody way there are 100,000 of them.
They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle.
"hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?" 2. Like I said...most people don't release there snakes, contray to what you hear, IF someone raised a baby up to 20 FEET why on earth would they release something they love so much when they've cared for it for so long? espcially when they know a shelter will take it. :confused:

This problem is a product of our own carelessness, 3. This is a product of "OUR" carelessness....??? :confused: so you released a burmese into the glades? :confused: No it is not, as i stated above I will not retype it... I however educate people any chance I get, I may not be the best, but i do my part, which is a lot more then what most keepers can say.
and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem. 4. I don't see a problem? Please explain it to me? Burmese are destroying the glades? HOW? as WWP posted above... and i've preached more times them i can remember, Burmese do more good then bad. let's say 100 burms are born.. MOST will be eaten by other creatures that live in the glades, maybe a few will survive to adulthood but very few will.. They're not "Apex" like they've been labeled.. They're near the top, but not APEX.

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Now... I will agree with you to ONE point, the others should not suffer, but this is Flodria's problem and not the U.S. They're doing nothing but wasting our tax dollars to hunt down snakes. Like I stated, if they want to do anything they need to just ban IMPORTING. why should we not be allowed to sell to people in other states?? :confused:

Better yet, what does any of this law have to do with other then that fact Florida's politicians think they own the U.s.....

This is a sad event, and i will do everything I can to overturn it. But it is comments like your that help add fuel to the goverments fire.. A reptile owner should NEVER say the U.S. is right for this......

<end rant>

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Damn Skip! You always have some kind of clever response!:rofl:

Btw, for those of you in this thread who think this means BCIs and all that you are wrong....http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nstrictor-Rule!

I was able to read the original link in this thread and get from the article that this act will only take import of Burms and Rocks away. Do I approve of it, no! Am I happy it doesn't include Boas and Balls, yes! Either way, we as Americans have to protect the land we live in and these two big snakes have proved to be injurious and are destroying our ecosystem. Get angry at me if you want but I somewhat agree with what they are doing. Also, these snakes are not for 90% of the people who are on this forum anyway. Especially with some of the threads I see posted by some people. Tally Ho!

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Actually I think it's crap, burms can't live/survive in every state. Actually they don't thrive in all of Florida, weird? It should be a Florida state law and shouldn't punish the entire country for the problems that are only in the Glades. The hurricane is to be blamed for the burm pop down there, not a whole bunch of people releasing their 20' monsters lol. Quit buying into the governments propaganda people! They should focus on their own problems instead of trying to punish the entire nation for THEIR problems! I live in Co and can guarantee that none of the original 9 can live here. It wouldn't happen our winters are too cold and long. Just because regular sized burms aren't for everyone, what about the dwarf burms? I can agree with having laws against large constrictors in the Glades but can't agree with you thinking this is a positive thing, that's just delusional! I get tired of hearing people that agree with this ban, your being as ignorant as the people that wrote it!

I'm really going to be devistated if I can't have the snakes that I want in the future :rage:. I am going back to school to get a good paying job, so I can provide proper care to my hopefully future pets :D. In the mean time I'm doing excessive research on each reptile to know the proper living requirments these wonderful animals require :).

wow, im super galmmed im an anarchist, this is one of the main reasons too! i will continue to protest, i love my critters, and plan to have more from breeders nation wide, i will protest until we get a good answer,

Zeion, snakes are not like mammals. They don't learn how to hunt. They don't forget how to hunt, simply because they've been in captivity. While a snake, released into the wild from captivity, would probably take a while to figure out where the best hiding, sunning, and hunting places were, it would inevitably do just fine. Anyone who's lost a snake in their home can testify to how these animals fare in a strange environment...well enough that we can't locate them, lol.

The hatchlings from the warehouse were wild caught, imported baby burms. Even if they had been captive bred...they were hatchlings. Perfectly equipped to survive in the wild on their own, and perfectly unadapted to captivity as of yet. They were the perfect way to introduce a new species to the environment there.
This is where the vast bulk of the Burm population in Florida came from.

However...it may not necessarily be where the boa, Afrock, retic, etc populations came from. There HAVE been released or escaped pets. Just a lot fewer of them, which is why all the screaming is about Burms, and not about boas.

IM still waiting to come across a Boa or Burm up here in Michigan when im out in the marsh's.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Zeion, snakes are not like mammals. They don't learn how to hunt. They don't forget how to hunt, simply because they've been in captivity. While a snake, released into the wild from captivity, would probably take a while to figure out where the best hiding, sunning, and hunting places were, it would inevitably do just fine. Anyone who's lost a snake in their home can testify to how these animals fare in a strange environment...well enough that we can't locate them, lol.

The hatchlings from the warehouse were wild caught, imported baby burms. Even if they had been captive bred...they were hatchlings. Perfectly equipped to survive in the wild on their own, and perfectly unadapted to captivity as of yet. They were the perfect way to introduce a new species to the environment there.
This is where the vast bulk of the Burm population in Florida came from.

However...it may not necessarily be where the boa, Afrock, retic, etc populations came from. There HAVE been released or escaped pets. Just a lot fewer of them, which is why all the screaming is about Burms, and not about boas.

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Now yes, there are some that are released pets, my point to that little rant is people want to say they're all pets. It's impossible. It takes what.. 2 to 3 to get to 15 feet? Depending on how much you feed maybe more or less..

My point stands, Pets who have adapted to captivty stand a FAR less of a chance to survive in the wild. You're right, some can. I will not deny that, but what gets at me is when people say it's all the keepers fault. It's not. :\