Got these for free today...abandoned....

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Originally Posted by AJs Snake House

No she did not do cultures on any of them she just prescribed baytril 30mg orally and betidine *sp? For the bacterial infections caused by the decaying rat carcasses and for the mouthrot on the g stripe.
I also set up the f-10 fogger this morning. Their hotspots are sitting at 92-93 with an ambient in the high 70s. The vet also recommended trying to feed...I would think this would add to their stress so I'm gonna wait a few more days before attempting to offer rats.
I am also soaking 2x a day for about 10 min to help rehydrate them...
Am I missing anything, is there anything else I should be doing?
BTW: the woman texted me and asked of she could get the tubs back...lol

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Why would she want the tubs back? lol

I have no idea

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the woman who adopted them out to you or the original owner? well i wouldnt give her the tubs if most of them have RI or something wrong with them...?

The woman who gave them to me..After prying for the whole story this is what I've gathered...
Woman A drops off a breeding collection of high end morphs at woman B's house to take care of for whatever reason. Woman A never comes to check on or take care of the snakes. Woman B has no idea how to take care of snakes and out of 40 original snakes only 12 survive 2 mos. At woman B's house. Woman B can't figure out why the snakes are dying (no water or heat) and decides to give away all remaining snakes after woman A says she is unable to take them back...the vet said it took atleast two months for the snakes to decline to the state they are in, so it matches up with this lady's story.
Either way this story is a sad one for the animals involved and I couldn't leave them to suffer after seeing how this woman cared for them.

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As everyone else has been saying, sucks they were abandoned but amazing that there so beautiful. Luckyyyyy

I agree lol I feel like I won the lottery! I was just telling my mother that "snakes just dont fall from heaven" lol apparently sometimes they do! Even if they were all normals I probably would have done the same to help give em a fighting chance...the fact that they turned out to be morphs...all the sweeter! Thanks everyone I can post more pictures tonight after dosing them if you want

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Oral Baytril is not as affective as Baytril injections. Also it has been found that f10 fogging is not beneficial to ball pythons and can be harmful.

i dont understand why everyone is tripping, if they were abandoned then they were, she has them now for FREE but when i saw the list i was all like :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. but anyway, just let her do her thingg.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Oral Baytril is not as affective as Baytril injections. Also it has been found that f10 fogging is not beneficial to ball pythons and can be harmful.

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I'm just doing what the herp vet told me to do. I'm not a vet and I trust that she knows what she is doing...she'd better, after paying her that kind of money.
I literally used one drop of disinfectant to a gallon of water (dilution is normally 1oz to 1gal), more so with the intent to sanitize the room/air.



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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Oral Baytril is not as affective as Baytril injections. Also it has been found that f10 fogging is not beneficial to ball pythons and can be harmful.

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I have never heard this, do you have any documents to back it up? Not trying to argue, I've just seen quite a few different species really benefit from the f10 treatments, and if there is something solid stating it's harmful to ball pythons then I think it should be put out there so people know about it and can avoid it...

The clown passed on this morning :*( his little body just couldn't handle it anymore I suppose. He was really weak last night after getting his medication and this morning he had given up the fight..

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Dang, sorry to hear that. Are others doin' alright?

Yes the others are doing a lot better than the clown was thank you for asking. They seem to already be responding to the husbandry, baytril and daily soaks. The YB h GS had a bowel movement and their skin feels more hydrated and doesn't stick together as bad when you pinch it.

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Is this vet that you're using one who exclusively sees exotics, or is she a dog/cat vet who also does exotics?

I will have to agree with another poster that it is pretty well accepted in herp science that because of their slower metabolism, oral treatment of snakes is FAR less effective than injections. They simply don't metabolize oral baytril as effectively as injectable baytril.

Perhaps you can suggest to her that she consults with Dr. Scott Stahl, widely regarded in the herp community as the BEST herp vet in the country. I know that he does consult with vets all over the country.

http://www.seavs.com/

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Originally Posted by AJs Snake House

No she did not do cultures on any of them she just prescribed baytril 30mg orally and betidine *sp? For the bacterial infections caused by the decaying rat carcasses and for the mouthrot on the g stripe.
I also set up the f-10 fogger this morning. Their hotspots are sitting at 92-93 with an ambient in the high 70s. The vet also recommended trying to feed...I would think this would add to their stress so I'm gonna wait a few more days before attempting to offer rats.
I am also soaking 2x a day for about 10 min to help rehydrate them...
Am I missing anything, is there anything else I should be doing?
BTW: the woman texted me and asked of she could get the tubs back...lol

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I would nix the ambient high 70's and just keep the whole enclosure at ~92. It would make me nervous to see a sick snake's body temp get <85, even if it's voluntary on the part of the snake. I have taken care of mild RI cases in QT snakes just with a temp hike.

I think I know why your vet has you doing oral Baytril. I remember that in one of our precious few reptile lectures, the Doc made a big deal about how Baytril is labelled to be given IM ONCE, then orally for every dose after that, because it may form sterile abscesses ("Baytril burns") at the injection site. (He put up a picture of a pied and a bumblebee on the slide and said that the owner would be very upset if we gave his several thousand dollar pythons sterile abscesses ...)

That having been said, it seems to me that these poor snakes' guts aren't going to be absorbing much of anything right now -- snakes have an amazing capacity to divert blood supply to and from the gut depending on feed intake, so I suspect that a half-starved, sick animal is going to be giving its gut almost no blood flow. So, I really wonder how much Baytril these kids are really absorbing into their systems.

So I agree with Rabernet -- maybe bring that up with your vet next time you see her ..?

I've never used F-10 myself, so I can't comment on it. I do know that nebulization is becoming more popular in other species for the treatment of RI, particularly for birds. However, I need to do more research on F-10 specifically.

Very interesting...the animal hospital i took them to also treats cats dogs and exotics but the vet I saw is experienced with hero's and her name was given to me on several referrals. I will definitely call her to see if we possibly get and injection of baytril and to see if she will consult with the vet recommended above.

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Yeah, I have to say i would have thought they would all get injections of antibiotics, that the vet would take at least one culture to identify the organism, and that they would have gotten some subcutaneous injections of fluids, too.
I haven't seen baytril in 3 years, the few times I've had to treat snakes for RI, I was given Fortaz (Ceftazidime) or Amikacin.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Yeah, I have to say i would have thought they would all get injections of antibiotics, that the vet would take at least one culture to identify the organism, and that they would have gotten some subcutaneous injections of fluids, too.
I haven't seen baytril in 3 years, the few times I've had to treat snakes for RI, I was given Fortaz (Ceftazidime) or Amikacin.

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That's what I would have thought. A dog or cat in the same condition would have immediatly be put on IV fluids and antibiotics. She did mention IVs but told me they can only handle a small amount of fluids and instead, soaking would be more effective as long as they're drinking and soaking on there own (which they spend about 50% of their time doing). Also, she mentioned a pureed carnivore diet that I could feed with a tube but she said that might be too stressful and that they should begin to eat normally as the infection starts to heal...
Should I take them to another vet? This vet charged an exam fee for every animal but only charged me for two prescriptions but it was still a hefty chunk that ill be working to pay off for awhile.

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I like my vet, Dr. Roger Klingenberg at SheepDraw Vet clinic but Greeley is a long way from your end of the state.

http://www.sheepdrawvh.com/

Sorry to hear about the clown:tears:
You are very lucky and doing the best you can for them:gj::gj:

[QUOTE=TessadasExotics;1711223 Also it has been found that f10 fogging is not beneficial to ball pythons and can be harmful.[/QUOTE]

I would also like to see/know more about this information:confused:

I'm sorry to hear the clown passed.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Yeah, I have to say i would have thought they would all get injections of antibiotics, that the vet would take at least one culture to identify the organism, and that they would have gotten some subcutaneous injections of fluids, too.
I haven't seen baytril in 3 years, the few times I've had to treat snakes for RI, I was given Fortaz (Ceftazidime) or Amikacin.

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My vet also prescribes Fortaz (Ceftazidime) and it is much more effective at treating RIs than Baytril.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I would also like to see/know more about this information:confused:

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I'll see if I can find the info I had. I did allot of research on f10 about a year ago. Yes it is and has been used as a fogger for birds for quite some time over in the UK and for a little while here in the US. The research done on ball pythons had shown to not be beneficial and possibly made the RI take longer to get rid of. The theory was that the extra vapor in the snakes lungs was too much and slowed down the immune system, if I remember correctly.

Interesting. I found one article that points out that, since snakes have a linear respiratory tract, any nebulization (even that of well-known antibiotics that are known to work well in other species) may be ineffective as the active principal may not reach the site of infection.

I've just always thought that it seemed like a really bad idea to encourage any animal to inhale a disinfectant ... I don't know. Maybe I'm being too conservative.

Sketches me out, though, that the only "published" case reports I can even find on using F-10 nebulization in snakes (let alone actual studies) come from the company's website ... And they kinda make it out that the stuff can cure just about anything in any animal ... Which smells fishy to me.

I don't think I would use it, at least not until some GOOD data comes out that indicates that it's safe and effective.

Have you offered food at all yet to any of them? If you have, I hope it went well. If not, I think I would def pre-kill something a little smaller then you would reg. feed it, and offer it so its not running around in the cage and freakin it out and stressing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think food will give their body's the nutrients they really need to get back to proper health. I am by no ways a vet, but It just seams that it would help.

Anyone out there disagree?

I did offer undersized prey items (live) and only one struck at it with no attempt to constrict, just a defensive strike. The others seemed interested but lost interest quickly. I will be trying f/t today to try and trigger a feeding response.

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I just read this entire thread and commend the OP for her actions and devotion to these awesome animals.

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Originally Posted by AJs Snake House

I did offer undersized prey items (live) and only one struck at it with no attempt to constrict, just a defensive strike. The others seemed interested but lost interest quickly. I will be trying f/t today to try and trigger a feeding response.

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I have not read much of this thread, so I hope this has not already been mentioned, for trouble ball python feeders you can place them in small tubs with cypress mulch, and a tight fitting hide. Make sure your temps are perfect, and offer them live small mice. Give them a few days between feeding attempts. Good luck.

I just recently found this thread so I will put in my 2cents. After many years of keeping reptiles and snakes and dealing with reptile vets in various parts of the country its pretty well established that injections are the only way to insure the RI antibiotic medication is absorbed in snakes. The only time I have treated any reptile with oral medication was for intestinal parasites.

The other very important factor is without a culture you are guessing if the infection your snake has is affected whatsoever by the medication used. A few folks have mentioned several other medications like fortaz etc... This is because not all RI's are caused by the same bacteria and some bacteria's react to one medication and not the other. Baytril is one of the oldest and most common and because of that there are many bacteria that it wont cure. Medicating a snake can be stressful to the animal and if it is not helping the stress could very well make him worse, this I know from experience.

Unfortunately reptiles are not a specialty that many vets keep up on, many years ago I had a vet over medicate a smaller snake and kill it. Some antibiotics are hell on their internal organs. It isn't easy to find a good reptile vet and when you do, it can get real expensive. I spend over $100 on a culture, plus vet visit and medication charges. Good t-stats and husbandry are way cheaper!



As mentioned earlier it may look like winning lotto to some of you and that's because you probably never had to deal with RI's and their cost mentally and financially. Giving shots to snakes is not fun for them or you. Snakes have a very primitive lung, they can't cough like we do and a bad RI will drown them very easily. Thats why some will look straight up trying to clear the windpipe.

Here is a link for a great reptile vet, Dr. Stahl. I have done telephone appointments with him and also he will conference call with you local vet, with an appointment, and advise examinations and procedures. Just a phone appointment with him alone is a great education on snakes, he has had me examine snakes while on the phone , I've sent email pics, etc.. Ralph Davis and a lot of breeders go to him .http://www.seavs.com/

Best of luck with your group. Keep them warm, 92 hot spot.

Good Luck! I hope all of your kind work saves these animals!

Wow, now there's some luck!!! They get abandoned and you give them a loving home, it all works out :)

I got 4 normal females for free they hadn't been abandoned the lady just didn't want them anymore, the ages go from 12 years all the way to 20-25 years she's not sure how old the oldest one is. She said she just woke up one day and decided she didn't want them anymore.

Enjoy your new babies. :)

UPDATE:
All snakes are doing good, still refusing food...but all seem to be improving, no more drooling or dehydration. They seem to be getting alot of color back too. I was starting to wonder if the G-stripe was a butter g-stripe, until he started getting his black color back along his dorsal stripe. I've never experienced a sickly pale snake before...
I have started to wonder (after trying different sized rats, live/ft) if these snakes were being fed asfs prior to being abandoned?...I just want them to take atleast one meal, it would make me feel alot more hopeful, but I suppose time will tell... right?

That's good to hear that they are doing better. I think the main thing now is to get them eating again. You can try an asf if you want. It's what I used to get my BP eating after she was sick. She took f/t rats no problem after that.

What you are doing for these animals is truly remarkable. The world needs more people like you. :gj:

Aww thank you! But these animals are the real heroes here...its true...yes I was blessed with these creatures in a remarkable turn of events (which I find quite unbelievable, even after checking tubs on daily basis and still not believing that they are actually mine). However, the hardships that these snakes endured was to say the least, horrific and for them to continue to fight every day almost brings me to tears. It is a bit weird though how out of all the people who could have stumbled upon their blight, it just happened to be me. I live every day thanking my lucky stars that I get the opportunity to give these babies a fighting chance and a home in which they'll be appreciated and loved for what they are...ball pythons! And who here doesn't love em? Thank you everyone for supporting me through this emotional time.

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Good to hear they are doing better. Hope they eat soon, you might try smaller prey items. Update us with some better pictures soon so we can see how they are doing. Good luck. :gj:

I just read this whole thread, don't know how I missed it :(. Great job taking them in and helping them all! I'm so sorry about the clown too. If you ever need any help I'm in the Springs.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I'm sorry to hear the clown passed.



My vet also prescribes Fortaz (Ceftazidime) and it is much more effective at treating RIs than Baytril.

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fortaz is not more effective at treating a RI than baytril. you need to use the right drug for what is effecting your animal. I'm not going to get into all the typing to explain this, but will give a link below, so dr scott stahl can. as west coast jungle stated in a post already, dr scott stahl is one of the best. this talk radio segment is long and very very good. I hope that there isn't a problem with me posting this link, if you're into breeding or just keeping ball pythons, then this is a must listen to show! enjoy

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-veterinary

sorry rabernet posted about dr scott stahl and also west coast jungle

It's almost certainly already been mentioned and you're probably doing it anyway, but make sure they have a secure place to hide. As little unnecessary extra space in their tub as possible. They like to be snug and warm and feel safe and they eat perfectly. I've had great luck turning every poorly feeding or altogether non-feeding snake I get into monsters this way. I've been following this thread and am hoping for the best for them and you.

For reference, all the luck I've had has been based on using these $1.00 dog bowls from Wal-Mart. I've used them with all of my snakes for years. They love to squeeze themselves up under the inside mold of the bowl and if in a medium sized tub, it covers the hot spot perfectly and maintains great humidity. The G-Stripe in the pic came to me as a 700 gram 3-year old and she's now doubled her weight in 8 months.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...om/1031112.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-83e8-97b5.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-83fa-c633.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-840c-b356.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-841b-e69f.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-842f-274a.jpg

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http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-862c-b8bb.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/c775b63e-8640-cd19.jpg

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I'm not sure why but the pictures look good in my phone but once I upload them they turn out blurry...

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Originally Posted by AJs Snake House

I'm not sure why but the pictures look good in my phone but once I upload them they turn out blurry...

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they are tiny, LOL you phone might be resizing them with taptalk:confused:

Email the pics from your phone to any email address you have, save the image to your computer, upload to Photobucket, then paste the IMG code into your post.

Although, the first pics are suitable. Not sure what happened to the tiny ones. The snakes really don't look like they're in horrible health. They just need time to adjust and settle into their new homes and recover from the RI and they'll start eating again.

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Originally Posted by RyanT

Email the pics from your phone to any email address you have, save the image to your computer, upload to Photobucket, then paste the IMG code into your post.

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android straight to photobucket

Wow, I just caught up to this thread. My hats off to the OP and the effort put forth. You are a great person indeed to undertake such a task /risk. :) I hope for a prosperous new beginning. :D

for real??? wow! very happy for you!

I can't believe you were charged for each animal. I agree with the injection parts as well. I wouldn't see that vet again. JMO.

I'm glad your grateful for these animals and are doing every thing you can to help them out, I just don't know how some one can just stop caring about their pets. I'm sorry for your loses though but I'm glad the others have improved.

"Lol" to her wanting the tubs back though.... geez.