Trying at BloodBalls..

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Originally Posted by YOSEF

I was NOT " hating " on anyone. Ever since I joined this forum I have been respectful of ALL people.

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iv read your posts.... you have been very polite.
spooky

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Originally Posted by bloodpython_MA

Www.hybridHaven.net
For anyone LEGITIMATELY interested in hybrids.
This is a blood python/short-tail python section.
Not a hybrids section, thus anything involving other species isn't appropriate for this section, if you WANT to split hairs. JUST SAYING.
I don't care if it's legitimately interesting, or your opinions on the matter(or my own). The VAST majority of short-tail python keepers HATE hybrids. It's not too long ago that these 3 species were OFFICIALLY separate and acknowledged as separate species.
So try to understand why the majority of REAL short-tail keepers want to keep the species pure. Honestly, I'm not a "CRAZY PURIST" burn them at the stake kinda person. But to see people saying that are points aren't even valid, makes it a sad day in my book.

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Thanks for the link, but as the OP was asking a question regarding a BLOOD and breeding said BLOOD, I think this topic is fine right where it is. It doesn't matter what the OP is breeding the blood to, they are still asking questions about that particular species.

If you don't like hybrids and don't like the thread, then don't read it. Its that simple. And that goes for everyone in here that is posting about their dislike of the hybrid. The OP has the right to post in this section about her snake.

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Originally Posted by cmack91

i see it kinda like dogs, i personally love pit bulls and labs equally, but would much rather have a mix of the two

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Its not like dogs at all. Mixing morphs is like mixing dog breeds. Breeding a Coyote to a Dog is making a hybrid. A pit bull to a lab is just not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by cmack91

i see it kinda like dogs, i personally love pit bulls and labs equally, but would much rather have a mix of the two

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Its not like dogs at all. Mixing morphs is like mixing dog breeds. Breeding a Coyote to a Dog is making a hybrid. A pit bull to a lab is just not the same thing.

In all honesty, the breeding of different dog breeds can be more detrimental to the resulting offspring than hybridizing some snake species.

Take breathing challenged breeds for example. They've been bred for their looks, but they end up having horrible breathing problems, especially as they age. I've seen dogs like that struggling for breath just because they got excited, yet people think those breeds are so cute and wonderful. What about the big breeds like Great Danes that have heart problems. Or dogs that have hip problems or other genetic diseases.

My opinion on breeding snake hybrids is as long as the resulting offspring are healthy and can function normally I see no problem with breeding for hybrids. Of course the breeding and offspring should be carefully documented.

I'm a few days late to weigh in on some things, but better late than never, hmmm? :P

1. It's true that Tiff asked for advice on how to go about safely breeding two different species...she did not ask for opinions on whether it was a good idea or not. BUT...it's very common for threads to meander around in many different directions from their original topic. Within reason, there is nothing wrong with that.

2. We DO have a forum for "haters"...it's called QT. If you want to know more about it, PM me. If this thread were to veer waaayyyy off the path and turn into a mean-spirited peeing contest, then those specific posts may get pruned out and moved to QT. But just because people are expressing opposing opinions, and just because some are less diplomatic about it than others does NOT mean it needs moderator attention. We try not to stomp on people's legitimate opinions.

3. We could easily create a "hybrid only forum" for such discussions....but that would do absolutely nothing to stop the "haters" from continuing to express their opinions on the matter. In reality, the topic of hybrids is relatively rare and it would simply not gain enough traffic to make it worth the time and the site real-estate it would consume. I do not believe just because we had some forum labeled "hybrids" that suddenly everyone would be recording all their clutches and failures and keeping strict records about who bred what and who sold what to whom. It just doesn't work that way.

4. Tiffany is a very responsible young lady, judging by everything I've ever seen her post on here. I have no doubt that she could and would follow through with due diligence in both making sure her snakes are kept safe, as well as making sure the babies are well cared for, well documented, and sold to the right people.

5. It's my HOPE that Tiffany also realizes that starting a thread about hybrids, no matter what the original question was, is bound to invite dissenting opinions...and not all of them very nice. I hope she doesn't take it personally and I hope that she and others will realize that disagreements over always hotly debated subjects should not reflect poorly on BP.net as a whole.

Tiffany....good luck with whatever you decide to do! I hope you'll keep us up to date with it, but I can understand if you want to avoid these sort of tangential arguments that will pop up anytime anyone brings up hybrid threads.

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Originally Posted by JLC

4. Tiffany is a very responsible young lady, judging by everything I've ever seen her post on here. I have no doubt that she could and would follow through with due diligence in both making sure her snakes are kept safe, as well as making sure the babies are well cared for, well documented, and sold to the right people.

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:gj::gj::gj::gj::gj::gj:

I didn't expect this to get 6 pages long :D.

Thanks JLC :). I am in no way of taking any of this personally, as I did create the thread anyways :P.

Everyone has their own opinion and that's okay, some of us may or may not like hybrids.

But for those wanting to know how things have been going, I have only paired them once. The Blood was tail wagging and seemed very interested, but the Ball was busy checking out his surroundings. I may hold off with the breeding until Spring so I can get plenty of more meals in her and so she has her clutch at a later time than my Ball pythons do. Then the clutch can be monitored singularly in the incubator.

Also good luck to the others who are lurking around this project :gj:.

Here's a pic of her I took tonight, just sharin' a photo.
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...pythons006.jpg

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Here's a pic of her I took tonight, just sharin' a photo.
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...pythons006.jpg

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she looks like she would make some nice superballs!

Ps
The animals referred to as "Superballs" are ball python (Python regius) x Borneo short-tail python (Python breitensteini)

Ball python(Python regius) x blood python (Python brongersmai) has yet to be successfully done. Of the 2 people I've heard that bred and got eggs, they all died in incubation.

Just clarifying as the offspring wouldn't be "superballs"... bloods and borneo short-tails are completely separate species, thus yielding different offspring, should one choose to hybridize them.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython_MA

Ps
The animals referred to as "Superballs" are ball python (Python regius) x Borneo short-tail python (Python breitensteini)

Ball python(Python regius) x blood python (Python brongersmai) has yet to be successfully done. Of the 2 people I've heard that bred and got eggs, they all died in incubation.

Just clarifying as the offspring wouldn't be "superballs"... bloods and borneo short-tails are completely separate species, thus yielding different offspring, should one choose to hybridize them.

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Thanks for that info. I suppose I would just refer to them as BloodBalls, if the breeding goes through.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Thanks for that info. I suppose I would just refer to them as BloodBalls, if the breeding goes through.

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:P Aww, come on, I'm sure you can come up with a better hybrid name than that! Something truely awesome!

And personally, if I could actually keep snakes at the moment (they aren't allowed where I'm at), I'd probably be interested in keeping a baby. At the very least, discovering the quirks of a whole new animal that no one has ever had before would be worth it in my books!

And if they turn out to be gorgeous lookers, all the better! Who knows, maybe they'll turn out to look like balls, but with bright Blood coloration and patterns.

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Originally Posted by SilverDemon

:P Aww, come on, I'm sure you can come up with a better hybrid name than that! Something truely awesome!

And personally, if I could actually keep snakes at the moment (they aren't allowed where I'm at), I'd probably be interested in keeping a baby. At the very least, discovering the quirks of a whole new animal that no one has ever had before would be worth it in my books!

And if they turn out to be gorgeous lookers, all the better! Who knows, maybe they'll turn out to look like balls, but with bright Blood coloration and patterns.

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LOL, well if it comes to where I'm the true decider of the name, if I produce the first Blood x Ball hatchling, then I will choose a much more decent name than "BloodBall" :D.

I am definitely hoping for something cool as what you described :gj:! Hopefully the orange in my Blood's coloration will kick in with the babies.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

In all honesty, the breeding of different dog breeds can be more detrimental to the resulting offspring than hybridizing some snake species.

Take breathing challenged breeds for example. They've been bred for their looks, but they end up having horrible breathing problems, especially as they age. I've seen dogs like that struggling for breath just because they got excited, yet people think those breeds are so cute and wonderful. What about the big breeds like Great Danes that have heart problems. Or dogs that have hip problems or other genetic diseases.

My opinion on breeding snake hybrids is as long as the resulting offspring are healthy and can function normally I see no problem with breeding for hybrids. Of course the breeding and offspring should be carefully documented.

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What about what the Torah says? ( Lev. 19:19) .....the Hebrew is quite clear that mixing different species of animals is forbidden. .....food for thought.

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Originally Posted by YOSEF

What about what the Torah says? ( Lev. 19:19) .....the Hebrew is quite clear that mixing different species of animals is forbidden. .....food for thought.

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This is no place for a religious debate. That book means nothing to me as an atheist... Might as well say "barney loves hybrids. I love Barney, so therefore, hybrids are okay":irkd::ohmygod:

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Originally Posted by YOSEF

What about what the Torah says? ( Lev. 19:19) .....the Hebrew is quite clear that mixing different species of animals is forbidden. .....food for thought.

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Great point. So hybrids are as bad as polyester cotton blend shirts or the average persons home garden.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython_MA

This is no place for a religious debate. That book means nothing to me as an atheist... Might as well say "barney loves hybrids. I love Barney, so therefore, hybrids are okay":irkd::ohmygod:

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I was NOT trying to start a religious debate. All I said was " food for thought".
My comment was NOT to you.
Whether you believe or don't believe " that book " is of no concern of mine.

I ALWAYS keep my comments polite......even when someone is RUDE. :blahblah:

Shalom,
Yosef.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Great point. So hybrids are as bad as polyester cotton blend shirts or the average persons home garden.

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.....the Hebrew says not to mix species of ANIMALS.....then it says not to mix seeds, then it says that a garment of wool AND linen mixture shall not be worn.

AGAIN, I wasn't trying to start a debate ....or a fight.

Shalom,
Yosef

Ok, that's definitely enough for me. This thread has now crashed!

Last week all my hide boxes were transformed into Sukkah and my snakes ate all their F/T inside of them. :gj:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

LOL, well if it comes to where I'm the true decider of the name, if I produce the first Blood x Ball hatchling, then I will choose a much more decent name than "BloodBall" :D.

I am definitely hoping for something cool as what you described :gj:! Hopefully the orange in my Blood's coloration will kick in with the babies.

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you could call it a "bloald" lol, pronounce that however you want, i was just trying to get a good mix of the letters, i actually like bloodball though, it sounds cool, or the fatball haha

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Originally Posted by cmack91

you could call it a "bloald" lol, pronounce that however you want, i was just trying to get a good mix of the letters, i actually like bloodball though, it sounds cool, or the fatball haha

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I can't even pronounce that lol

Bloodball would be a suiting name. It's pretty straight forward and would help avoid confusion ;)

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Originally Posted by bwt501

Last week all my hide boxes were transformed into Sukkah and my snakes ate all their F/T inside of them. :gj:

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:handshake

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Originally Posted by bad-one

I can't even pronounce that lol

Bloodball would be a suiting name. It's pretty straight forward and would help avoid confusion ;)

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i agree

That is one beautiful girl you have there! She'll make such wonderful baby bloodballs. :)

Keep us updated. I can't wait to do this pairing myself. I need to get me a full grown girl, but I'll probably pair mine up with some morphs to see what I get. :D

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

But for those wanting to know how things have been going, I have only paired them once. The Blood was tail wagging and seemed very interested, but the Ball was busy checking out his surroundings. I may hold off with the breeding until Spring so I can get plenty of more meals in her and so she has her clutch at a later time than my Ball pythons do. Then the clutch can be monitored singularly in the incubator.

Also good luck to the others who are lurking around this project :gj:.

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haha,,,, i got just the opposite,,, my female blood showed zero intrest...... all we can do is keep trying!!!!
spooky

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm a few days late to weigh in on some things, but better late than never, hmmm? :P

1. It's true that Tiff asked for advice on how to go about safely breeding two different species...she did not ask for opinions on whether it was a good idea or not. BUT...it's very common for threads to meander around in many different directions from their original topic. Within reason, there is nothing wrong with that.

2. We DO have a forum for "haters"...it's called QT. If you want to know more about it, PM me. If this thread were to veer waaayyyy off the path and turn into a mean-spirited peeing contest, then those specific posts may get pruned out and moved to QT. But just because people are expressing opposing opinions, and just because some are less diplomatic about it than others does NOT mean it needs moderator attention. We try not to stomp on people's legitimate opinions.

3. We could easily create a "hybrid only forum" for such discussions....but that would do absolutely nothing to stop the "haters" from continuing to express their opinions on the matter. In reality, the topic of hybrids is relatively rare and it would simply not gain enough traffic to make it worth the time and the site real-estate it would consume. I do not believe just because we had some forum labeled "hybrids" that suddenly everyone would be recording all their clutches and failures and keeping strict records about who bred what and who sold what to whom. It just doesn't work that way.

4. Tiffany is a very responsible young lady, judging by everything I've ever seen her post on here. I have no doubt that she could and would follow through with due diligence in both making sure her snakes are kept safe, as well as making sure the babies are well cared for, well documented, and sold to the right people.

5. It's my HOPE that Tiffany also realizes that starting a thread about hybrids, no matter what the original question was, is bound to invite dissenting opinions...and not all of them very nice. I hope she doesn't take it personally and I hope that she and others will realize that disagreements over always hotly debated subjects should not reflect poorly on BP.net as a whole.

Tiffany....good luck with whatever you decide to do! I hope you'll keep us up to date with it, but I can understand if you want to avoid these sort of tangential arguments that will pop up anytime anyone brings up hybrid threads.

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on your #3, ill agree with you (some what). i think that the reason for the ????compassion??? of the "true" breeders is valid, and i can respect their opinions, but where else is someone going to post about hybrids? its like throwing a sheep into the wolfs. im sure that if there was a section for hybrids, there would be a few people that had nothing better to do than to bash would show up,,,, but its less likley.. i feel like when there are post about hybrids,,were stepping on the toes of others,, and in some wierd way, i can understand how they feel.
its true, the subject of hybrids is relatively rare, but weather some like it or not,, there here. we might be suprised in the intrest that would develop if people could talk freely about the subject without getting slamed. as far as the realistate,,, theres a section for almost every other creature on here, ie. fish, horses, and the likes.
and ill totally agree with you on this statement " I do not believe just because we had some forum labeled "hybrids" that suddenly everyone would be recording all their clutches and failures and keeping strict records about who bred what and who sold what to whom. It just doesn't work that way." this is true, as its been proved time and time again in the BP comunity.
this is a great sight, and iv learned ALOT here, and spent countless hours reading here,, its just a shame that i need to go to other sights to read about hybrids.
just my LOOOOONG 2c worth:)..
thanks
spooky

sorry for my language, but if you're going to be a bit of an ass and call it a "mutt" so definitevly you should know that by definition a mutt is a mixbreed dog. Only dog, no other animal.

So...no..it's not a mutt.

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Originally Posted by MarkyMcFly

sorry for my language, but if you're going to be a bit of an ass and call it a "mutt" so definitevly you should know that by definition a mutt is a mixbreed dog. Only dog, no other animal.

So...no..it's not a mutt.

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This is to the people who called it a "mutt" which I guess is obvious. I mean, I get that you don't like the idea and I completely respect that. Don't bag on someone elses goals. If she produces these she's not going to get enough to come close to flooding the market or anything.

I don't see anything wrong with giving it a go. I think they are cool snakes, but I do understand where some people are coming from in terms of being responsible. For example, I've bred axolotls for years and the axolotl has become so interbred with other species of salamander, morphs, etc. that it is now nothing like it was in the wild. Which is really a shame because they are now virtually extinct in the wild, but the captive specimens are impossible to reintroduce (because they have changed so much from the original species).

In other words I think some people are afraid that hybriding will become so popular that eventually a ball python will really be part blood, or someone buys a ball and later finds out its part blood python.

I understand both sides, but to each their own.

any progress coolio??
spooky

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

any progress coolio??
spooky

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+1

it hasn't been that long...i wonder what happened though?? I'm all for mixed breeds, actually. though i haven't been into snakes for more than a year, i know with some other species it is the strong and healthy genetic traits that survive...so why not? *stirs the pot* and no i didn't read through 9 pages of opinion. i just posted *lol*

I too am interested in what's going on Tiffany! I personally love hybrids and wouldn't mind dappling in it myself. Chad wants bateaters badly and I love burmballs :)

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Originally Posted by MarkyMcFly

This is to the people who called it a "mutt" which I guess is obvious. I mean, I get that you don't like the idea and I completely respect that. Don't bag on someone elses goals. If she produces these she's not going to get enough to come close to flooding the market or anything.

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This is the to the people who call MUTTS a HYBRID or a collaboration of the two species names ....

You can polish a turd, but it's still a TURD..:salute:

it only takes one leak to stain a carpet:O

from the looks of this thread it's a lost cause but it can be turned into something hilarious with a few more of these..:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:: banana::banana:.

@ChrisK:

Mutts are animals of the same species where clearly defined distinct long-term breeding lineages have been crossed.

Hybrids aren't mutts.

Calling a hybrid a hybrid isn't "calling a turd" something else. It's using the correct scientific term in an unbiased way to describe a particular animal. Feel free to leave biased (either for OR against) and incorrect terminology at the door, this isn't the place for it.

I'm no fan of the various short-tailed python hybrids I've seen, and you won't see me getting excited about someone pursuing that project. I just prefer to see correct terminology applied, especially when someone is trying to say that the correct terminology is "incorrect".

I don't really have any comments about hybrids either way and also don't have very much interest aside from a passing curiosity but like mainbutter accuracy in terms matters...

A cockapoo is a mutt of sorts a cross between a domestic dog and a domestic dog (cocker spaniel and toy poodle) exactly the same as most royal morphs a BEL is a cross between a lesser and mojave for example.

A hybrid between a male donkey and female horse is a mule (female donkey and male horse is a hinny) and have been bred for a great many years.

hybrids sometimes work out well, mules for example and not so well, killer bees... (european honey bee with african bee)

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

@ChrisK:

Mutts are animals of the same species where clearly defined distinct long-term breeding lineages have been crossed.

Hybrids aren't mutts.

Calling a hybrid a hybrid isn't "calling a turd" something else. It's using the correct scientific term in an unbiased way to describe a particular animal. Feel free to leave biased (either for OR against) and incorrect terminology at the door, this isn't the place for it.


I'm no fan of the various short-tailed python hybrids I've seen, and you won't see me getting excited about someone pursuing that project. I just prefer to see correct terminology applied, especially when someone is trying to say that the correct terminology is "incorrect".

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Haha I'm sure glad I double checked my spelling.....:D

*smile*

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Originally Posted by ChrisK

Haha I'm sure glad I double checked my spelling.....:D

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:imslow::imslow:Some peoples kids:imslow::imslow:

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Originally Posted by ChrisK

This is the to the people who call MUTTS a HYBRID or a collaboration of the two species names ....

You can polish a turd, but it's still a TURD..:salute:

it only takes one leak to stain a carpet:O

from the looks of this thread it's a lost cause but it can be turned into something hilarious with a few more of these..:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:: banana::banana:.

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seems your trying to hijack this thread. Isn't there forum rules about that?
Spooky

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

seems your trying to hijack this thread. Isn't there forum rules about that?
Spooky

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nope not trying to hijack it, trust me..just poking:banana: fun...don't know about the rules but let me check and Ill get back with you in this thread.:gj:

here's what I found....:D


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Thanks for that. Might I direct you to #3,,(the long version),,, the part about "flame war". You might be in violation. But I don't know.
keep in mind that the OP didn't ask for personal opinions regarding hybrids
spooky

I'm intrigued to see the outcomes of this thread. :] After wading through the silliness that is.

I for one think mules are cute. :] And savannah cats. I believe in responsible ownership of hybrids, but there will always be irresponsible people which is an unfortunate truth. But hating on an aspect of breeding just because of the chances of people being irresponsible is a little hard. I'm just going to hope that since hybrids are so difficult to obtain that they won't become too much of an issue in the future. (At least with pythons, since they seem to be the difficult ones!)

She's a gorgeous blood! Any babies she makes will be amazing. <3 Good luck and props to the people capable of debating maturely! :colbert: to those who resort to silly names! :P

Alright guys...

No rules have been broken here. Just because someone says something that you find a little irritating or annoying doesn't mean they're trying to start a flame war. And we don't have any specific rules about "hijacks". Threads meander off topic all the time around here. It's the nature of conversation.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

Thanks for that. Might I direct you to #3,,(the long version),,, the part about "flame war". You might be in violation. But I don't know.
keep in mind that the OP didn't ask for personal opinions regarding hybrids
spooky

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WOW that's reaching, but Ill give it to ya-

I woke up today spitting hot fire- and I felt the need to spew hate-crap in this thread with a 'turd' reference towards breeding 2 animals which produce non-pure results.

your 100% spooky there was no need for it and just cause I think the word 'turd' is funny, someone else may take offense to it.

I'm getting away from the keyboard for a while to take a long good look at myself and weather I'm helping or hurting the community.:gj:

10/4:) So,, let me head back ON topic.
have you tried any different males, or rubbing sheds, or many taking the substrate from a "active" female ball and placing it in with the blood?
as soon as my female blood finishes her shed, these are some of the things I'll be trying.
spooky

Just read through all this. Must admit I didn't think this would go this far just from the title. But why? I dont look at posts i dont like. not a fan of rats, dont go calling them ugly when people post their pics.

I also would like to hear an update maybe with a false title to keep it on track.:)
Keep us updated:)