I Give Up On FT

Actually, tests done in labs has proven that kiln dried pine is NOT dangerous for rats.

It is cedar that is toxic. It has been proven to cause certain organs to fail, as well as respiratory issues in rats and rabbits.

I've been using pine pellets and kiln dried pine flake for 2 years with absolutely no issues. It works much better for odor and moisture control.

Most if not all bags of pine sold in stores is Kiln dried. Very hard to fine bags that are pure processed pine, unless your cutting the tree and chopping it in pieces yourselves.

Also keep in mind Aspen that is highly used has phenols as well. Most frozen rodents you order online come from breeders using pine..

The so called info online is directly relating to the exposure to the phenol oils but not the wood it self. When kiln dried the oils are barely there, which is why the odor isnt that strong when you open a new bag of pine. And i don't believe most the info about pine online as its mostly cited sources of he said she said. I have first hand experience using it and see no harm in the rats/mice.

Thanks guys, when it's time to replace bedding I'm gonna get some pine and see how it works for me. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Having done some more research, I am seeing that kiln dried pine removes many of the harmful phenols. I am gonna look further into this. :) For those of you who use pine, is it kiln dried/heated?

---

Thousands of rats over years of breeding and yep we use kiln dried pine..Even though it helps with the smell for a day or two after a week with close to 1000 rats in a building yea there is a smell.

I use kiln dried pine. It does help with the smellyness and have been using it with my rodents for almost 5 years. I've had no issues thus far.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

Just my two cents. I am not an expert and I have limited small scale experience.

Bottom line - my rats, ASF's and mice are fine on pine.

I have used aspen flakes, shredded aspen, aspen sani-chips, pine flakes, shredded pine and pine pellets. I currently use pine pellets with a covering of shredded (fine) pine. The pine pellets basically eliminate the odor for almost the full week. The shredded pine helps keep the dust down from the pellets.

I would caution the use of pine pellets alone with newborns. The pellets give off a lot of dust which can clog up and kill the babies. It did for me but only with some of the babies. Others were not affected. Not sure why.

JohnNJ little lungs? I can't speak much to rat breeding all of mine are on f/t I had no issues switching at all in fact I am able to offer asf, rats, and mice to all and have them all eat what ever is offered. Anyway that is me and mine.

Pine has phenols, all wood does to some degree. kiln dried and non kiln dried is actually not super hard to tell apart raw pine has a strong pine smell and often will feel waxy or sticky. kiln dried is dry and not very sticky and only not super smelly, and rarely has sticky bits. Use your nose and fingers they will tell you. All pellets are dried and washed it is part of the process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

I have yet to come across an established ASF eater that would switch to normal rats...

---

Correction!

"I have yet to come across an established ASF eater that would NOT switch to normal rats."

In other words, I have never had an ASF eater that I was not able to convert to normal rats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Any thoughts or suggestions?

---

check out the asf section of this forum. ASF's are the way to go if you are breeding them at home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

It's up to you, just remember if you start your snakes on ASFs you'll need to have access to a constant supply, whether you breed them yourself or buy them. If you decide you don't want to breed ASFs, can't afford it, or whatever, you'll be out of luck unless you can find a local breeder.

---

What is this based on? If someone feeds ASF's now, and something changes to where they can no longer feed ASF's, simply follow these steps:

1.) buy small regular live rat.
2.) place rat in with snake on feeding day.

That is usually all it takes. People claim to have trouble switching snakes from ASF to RATS. 99% of the time their trouble can be traced back to something else that isn't right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I will never waste my time and money again. I have tried everything I have read about. I am just unlucky. None of my snakes young or old will go near the things.

I guess if my collection gets much bigger I'll have to try and breed my own feeders or luck out and find a local breeder who sells cheaper than the pet store.

You guys that feed FT are absolutely lucky 100%.

---

I started on F/T and switched to live and haven't looked back since. Good luck!

Regards,

B