what size tank can i keep a savahna monitor

It's not rude to say "You're wrong." It's rude to say "You're an idiot."

There's a difference between people not agreeing with you and saying your keeping is not how a animal should be kept and being "rude".

Well you weren't being rude, but there were a pair of others, ehem.
I do want to say if you want anyone to respond and take you (aimed at nobody specific) seriously, being rude and calling names and being sarcastic is not going to get the point across in the least.


But my savanna's enclosure is not causing her harm, or stress. She is a very lazy thing, like I've said and just doesn't dig. I have more than enough top soil to give her 2 or more feet, and I'd LOVE to see her go at it, but she just doesn't. Trust me when I say I have tried everything to encourage it. :rofl:

I've tried blocking the entrance to her 'pre-fab' burrow with dirt, and she'll just lay on top of it. I've tried giving her a start to a burrow, and she'll just stick her head in it, LOL.
She's just a lazy lima bean, and since she won't dig, I don't see a reason to put a hundred pound of top soil into an already 150+lb enclosure. :)


The screen top, is not my ideal top by any means. I -know- it's wrong, and I didn't suggest that someone uses it. Like I said, mine got busted when I moved last week, (SOMEONE just can't load a trailer properly. . . ) and I need to make a new one, but just haven't gotten the chance. I go in their several times a day and mist the whole cage to make sure it stays moist until I can build a new top, which i hope to do as soon as I get settled in here, and settled into my new job. . .

I agree with you Judy 100%.

However the person who started this all is still rude and came off as a major a&$.

To the op the answer to your question is this. A custom built enclosure that is about 8x4x4 is a much better option than a tank. So please consider the amount of space this pet is going to require as an adult before you purchase it.

I think what you need to use as a basis for comparison is how the animal usually lives in the wild..

For instance.. Ball pythons live in either a stolen or abandoned rodent burrow or a termite mound. Females rarely leave this small hole their entire lives.. This is why we recommend smaller enclosures for this species. They actually do better.

Tree boas spend much of their lives perched in a tree..

Bearded dragons spend early morning and evening snacking on insects and plants, then much of the rest of day is spent going between basking in the sun and napping in the shade..

Iguana's spend their time in trees snacking on the foliage and insects that happen by.

We try to mimic the environments our pets have in the wild as closely as possible so they will be as happy and healthy as possible.

Sav's are natural diggers and they roam great distances. They burrow. A sav can not dig a burrow in 2ft of dirt or store bough substrate, in a long and narrow glass container. No matter how many gallons it is. Therefore, I find it hard to believe that you can be so positive that your sav absolutely does not dig.

I bet if your sav was ever given a large enough enclosure with a 100% proper and natural environment, it would eventually do what they do naturally. Yours is just broken. Like a horse..

You would end up seeing a more active sav which would be a healthier sav. One which would not need to soak in a huge water bowl. One which would not be so lazy and puppy dog tame 100% the time. One which would not act like an abused horse whose spirit has been completely broken..

You would see a happy, healthy, active, normal, sav.

Instead of getting so mad at the people that are trying to actually help you here, try to open you eyes to the facts. Think about it..

Mary Jo has a chimp in a small cage. She takes him out every day and plays with him. He gets fed the best food. He gets baths. So it's ok that he gets locked back in a small 6x6x6 cage every day for at least 8-10 hours? Because he gets so much attention most days??

Hmm mm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

wow. Your information is so helpful.

I still don't know what the issue it. The ONLY thing that is wrong with my set up is the lid, and it's not like I don't KNOW that the lid needs to be replaced. My solid lid got broken in my move recently and i just haven't replaced it.

If you don't like aquariums, that's your problem, not mine and my savanna's.
If my monitor doesn't want to dig, what am I supposed to do? FORCE her? Grab her by her feet and dig with them?
She simply doesn't dig, and there's no use in putting 2 feet of soil in an enclosure with an animal that doesn't dig. I've tried a hundred times to encourage digging, but she doesn't want to dig. So I make her burrow FOR her.

And I'm SO SORRY that you don't believe a savanna can break a person's thumb. I've literally seen it. If you haven't, whatever, but it can happen, and has happened.

JLC, there is a HUGE difference between someone being mean and giving good info, and someone being a jerk and giving no useful information what-so-ever.

---

Unlike your post, which was filled with text book examples of what NOT to do, my posts were meant to entertain. If you weren't entertained, you can work on your sense of humor AFTER you read up on how to properly care for your monitor.

From an entertainment standpoint, your posts have failed.

From a husbandry standpoint, your posts are down right dangerous.

It's hard enough combating all the disinformation regarding how to properly keep a monitor. What makes the job more difficult is when people actively become belligerent when it is pointed out that just about everything they are doing is wrong.

Your glass tank is wrong.

Your lack of a deep substrate is wrong.

Your screen top is wrong.

Your insistence that your monitor has no desire to dig is wrong.

Monitors do not act like monitors when they are kept incorrectly. They act lazy, they act sluggish, they don't do the things they are supposed to do. Sound familiar?

The sad part is that they can go on like that for a long time without dying, all the while fooling their misguided keepers that everything is okay.

A 125 gallon aquarium usually measures 6' wide by 18" deep by 21" high. While the width is barely tolerable, the depth and height are woefully insufficient.

Let me just be blunt, there are a very few experienced Monitor keepers on this forum willing to put up with this foolishness. They are literally watching people borderline torture animals they have a passion for, I understand why they come across blunt sometimes.

That being said, I know for a fact that skiploder, mumps and slayer offer top notch Monitor advice. If they happen to say something might be off with the way you are keeping a Monitor, you might want to reflect on your care of the animal. Above everything though, please research their care (extensively) before taking on the very challenging (but rewarding) aspects of keeping Monitors.

Also, for what it's worth (not to beat a dead horse), there is no circumstances in which a Monitor should be kept in any sort of aquarium.

I don't know how you guys can keep insisting that my monitor is going to dig. She is never going to dig. She has no drive to dig. She is not an 'abused and broken horse', JESUS.


Even when she barely hit a foot long, she would not dig in her enclosure which at the time, and at her size was well within the limits you guys have stated.

My lack of substrate is not wrong. It's useless to put a few feet of dirt in an environment with an animal that isn't going to use it.

I'm sorry my savanna is more tame than yours, but she is not ill or 'sluggish'.
Soaking is a normal behavior. She doesn't do it all day long because she's dehydrated, she just LIKES it once in a while, so I provide her with a dish large enough to lay in. She craps in there because she LIKES to.

She eats from my hand because I have her TRAINED. She comes when she is called, and recognizes several VERY SIMPLE hand commands because I spend LOTS of time caring for her.
But please, keep telling me everything you know about MY monitor, because I'm sure you all know her way better than I do. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michelle.C

Let me just be blunt, there are a very few experienced Monitor keepers on this forum willing to put up with this foolishness. They are literally watching people borderline torture animals they have a passion for, I understand why they come across blunt sometimes.

That being said, I know for a fact that skiploder, mumps and slayer offer top notch Monitor advice. If they happen to say something might be off with the way you are keeping a Monitor, you might want to reflect on your care of the animal. Above everything though, please research their care (extensively) before taking on the very challenging (but rewarding) aspects of keeping Monitors.

Also, for what it's worth (not to beat a dead horse), there is no circumstances in which a Monitor should be kept in any sort of aquarium.

---

The main issue they seem to be having is with my top, and my soil.
They are insisting that my monitor will dig, and I am promising them that she will not. There's no way around it, she doesn't have the drive to dig.

And the lid, like i've said a million times but nobody seems to be reading what I'm actually typing, is TEMPORARY. . . The nice one that I made fell off of a trailer when I moved this week, and absolutely shattered. I have to build a new one. She's only had the screen on for a week and a half, and it's a pain, but I haven't had the time to construct the new one yet.

The main issue here is you seem to have an inability to process factual information.
Savs dig and thats including yours. They dig for many reasons such as for shelter, nesting, the pursuit of moisture or to escape the heat. Many species of monitor are also soil type specific. I could give my ackies 5 feet of top soil annd they won't dig a bit. Change the substrate to a very sand loam and they dig a subway system.
The fact that you state that yours does not only proves that your enclosure and husbandry does not allow for basic behaviors to be expressed.
If you cared about your animal you would be great full this was pointed out to you and would seek to remedy the situation.

If Rhasputin's monitor is happy, then there's nothing to worry about. Not all reptiles are the same. I have a BP that enjoys climbing trees and is rarely in a hide. Does this mean that she is neglected and unhappy? No, it just means that she is a bit different, and should have these needs met. She is happy, almost always eats, and has no problems being handled. I guess she's just an odd BP. Maybe the same is true for Rhasputin's monitor. Personally, I believe that reptiles should have the 'normal' accommodations, no matter how quirky the specific herp is. If they choose to use it, then the option is there. If they don't, no harm done. Not all reptiles are the same, and if Rhasputin's monitor isn't like other Savannas, then so be it. I would recommend giving the monitor the ability to burrow if she so chooses, even if she usually doesn't dig. It may be a bit more work, but it will give the monitor the ability to dig if she wants to. I'd try changing the substrate a few times to see if she chooses to dig in another type. I would also recommend a larger tank, if only to allow for a deeper soil. You can build a new custom enclosure in a few days, and it might make your monitor happier. Seems like it's worth a try!

Also, it seems as if this thread has turned into a big attack thread. People are accusing each others' husbandry right and left, while still not having given an answer to the OP.


-Apple2

The OP was given answers already. If he chooses to ignore them and stuff his monitor into a unsuitable fish tank, no one can stop him or forbid it.

Unfortunately not. I hope that he does choose to do some research before getting the monitor, for it will make the experience better for him and his new pet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apple2

If Rhasputin's monitor is happy, then there's nothing to worry about. Not all reptiles are the same. I have a BP that enjoys climbing trees and is rarely in a hide. Does this mean that she is neglected and unhappy? No, it just means that she is a bit different, and should have these needs met. She is happy, almost always eats, and has no problems being handled. I guess she's just an odd BP. Maybe the same is true for Rhasputin's monitor. Personally, I believe that reptiles should have the 'normal' accommodations, no matter how quirky the specific herp is. If they choose to use it, then the option is there. If they don't, no harm done. Not all reptiles are the same, and if Rhasputin's monitor isn't like other Savannas, then so be it. I would recommend giving the monitor the ability to burrow if she so chooses, even if she usually doesn't dig. It may be a bit more work, but it will give the monitor the ability to dig if she wants to. I'd try changing the substrate a few times to see if she chooses to dig in another type. I would also recommend a larger tank, if only to allow for a deeper soil. You can build a new custom enclosure in a few days, and it might make your monitor happier. Seems like it's worth a try!

Also, it seems as if this thread has turned into a big attack thread. People are accusing each others' husbandry right and left, while still not having given an answer to the OP.


-Apple2

---

............ that would all be fine and good if a: it was for the most part correct and b: if these animals felt things like "happy". In reality it comes down to whether the captives biological and psychological needs are being met or they are not. In this case they are not.
Also the O.P. question was answered on the first page

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slayer

4x2x2 for a juvie and 8x4x4 for an adult are the commonly accepted minimum enclosure sizes for a Sav.
Like wolfy-hound stated "Savannahs" don't do well in tanks" so custom,waterproofed, wooden enclosures are all id recommend

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

wow. Your information is so helpful.

I still don't know what the issue it. The ONLY thing that is wrong with my set up is the lid, and it's not like I don't KNOW that the lid needs to be replaced. My solid lid got broken in my move recently and i just haven't replaced it.

---

Your glass tank is too small, and is wrong.
Your lighting/heat/humidity in the glass tank is wrong, because it is EXTREMELY hard to offer correct temps/humidity gradients in an aquarium.
Your bosc's behavior is wrong.
Your substrate is wrong.
Your attitude toward Varanids is extremely wrong. Many of us have worked long and hard to get monitors to where they are today, and to be kept as they are supposed to. Having some 12 year old know it all go onto a forum "lul my savannah lives in a 120 gallon tank he's so happy" is a slap in the face to everyone who has worked so long for these amazing animals.

Quote:

---

If you don't like aquariums, that's your problem, not mine and my savanna's.
If my monitor doesn't want to dig, what am I supposed to do? FORCE her? Grab her by her feet and dig with them?
She simply doesn't dig, and there's no use in putting 2 feet of soil in an enclosure with an animal that doesn't dig. I've tried a hundred times to encourage digging, but she doesn't want to dig. So I make her burrow FOR her.

---

It's your savannahs problem actually, he's not getting the treatment he deserves, and I'd be willing to guess he wont come close to living the 15-20 years he is supposed to. Anyone else want to bet on an early death from either dehydration or fatty liver? Your bosc doesn't dig simply because YOU have screwed up your monitor. Give any of us experienced keepers (mumps/slayer/skip/myself) your monitor for half a day, and I bet you my house and car she digs a burrow and goes to sleep in it.

Quote:

---

And I'm SO SORRY that you don't believe a savanna can break a person's thumb. I've literally seen it. If you haven't, whatever, but it can happen, and has happened.

JLC, there is a HUGE difference between someone being mean and giving good info, and someone being a jerk and giving no useful information what-so-ever.

---

Your average person will not have his thumb broken by a bosc monitor. I've had many friends bit on the hands/fingers by things a hell of a lot bigger/nastier with sharper teeth than a bosc, and never seen a finger broken.

Your friend who had his finger broken had something else going on, or exaggerated, or was a sissy wimp with a big fish story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

But my monitor is not in an environment comparative to a 'tiny kennel'.
She has plenty of room to roam.
A 'tiny kellen' would be like if I had her in a 30 gallon aquarium. Or a 10. She'll fit in a 10, but it's not enough room for her to be happy.
125 gallons is enough for a monitor of her size, and a few inches of top soil, is enough for a monitor who does not dig.
The rules also state that rudeness is an offense worth reporting.

---

Yes, it is comparative to a tiny kennel, except its a kennel without a blanket, kept in the cold, and next to a hundred other barking dogs. It's improper and scary for your monitor. As you've said, you don't even have a few inches of topsoil (laughable next to the 2 foot they need), you have aspen bedding- something absolutely GARBAGE for humidity requirements of a bosc.

Report my rudeness all you want, you're clueless and I'd rather trust my monitors care to my mother than you. Oh, and she's terrified of monitors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Well you weren't being rude, but there were a pair of others, ehem.
I do want to say if you want anyone to respond and take you (aimed at nobody specific) seriously, being rude and calling names and being sarcastic is not going to get the point across in the least.

---

I'm rude, and I'm not ashamed of it either. Hell if the admins don't like it warn me or ban me for it. I'd rather be banned giving the right information and telling you that you are wrong than for sitting by while you give people/mislead others with false/bad information.

Quote:

---

But my savanna's enclosure is not causing her harm, or stress. She is a very lazy thing, like I've said and just doesn't dig. I have more than enough top soil to give her 2 or more feet, and I'd LOVE to see her go at it, but she just doesn't. Trust me when I say I have tried everything to encourage it. :rofl:

---

Not causing her harm? Wrong temps/humidity, bad substrate, probably a poor feeding regiment/diet (because you say she is lazy), in a stressful fish tank. Nope, no harm there, not like monitors don't die from the above listed ALL THE TIME. You haven't tried everything to encourage it. Give her an 8x4x4 setup properly, she WILL dig. No, putting 4 inches of dirt in her dry enclosure will not encourage digging, you did get that part right! LOL

Quote:

---

I've tried blocking the entrance to her 'pre-fab' burrow with dirt, and she'll just lay on top of it. I've tried giving her a start to a burrow, and she'll just stick her head in it, LOL.
She's just a lazy lima bean, and since she won't dig, I don't see a reason to put a hundred pound of top soil into an already 150+lb enclosure. :)

---

She's lazy because of poor husbandry, not because she "doesn't want to dig". I also wish any of my soil weighed only 100 lbs, or my enclosures where 150lbs!

Quote:

---

The screen top, is not my ideal top by any means. I -know- it's wrong, and I didn't suggest that someone uses it. Like I said, mine got busted when I moved last week, (SOMEONE just can't load a trailer properly. . . ) and I need to make a new one, but just haven't gotten the chance. I go in their several times a day and mist the whole cage to make sure it stays moist until I can build a new top, which i hope to do as soon as I get settled in here, and settled into my new job. . .

---

You have several times a day to go mist the cage, however you can't take 10 minutes to go to lowes/home depot and buy a piece of plywood to cover the top? They even cut it in store for you! Just bring home/lay on top! Sounds more like you're amazingly lazy and good at making up excuses for awful husbandry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michelle.C

Let me just be blunt, there are a very few experienced Monitor keepers on this forum willing to put up with this foolishness. They are literally watching people borderline torture animals they have a passion for, I understand why they come across blunt sometimes.

That being said, I know for a fact that skiploder, mumps and slayer offer top notch Monitor advice. If they happen to say something might be off with the way you are keeping a Monitor, you might want to reflect on your care of the animal. Above everything though, please research their care (extensively) before taking on the very challenging (but rewarding) aspects of keeping Monitors.

Also, for what it's worth (not to beat a dead horse), there is no circumstances in which a Monitor should be kept in any sort of aquarium.

---

I feel left out, I'm offended! (I hate being new here!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I don't know how you guys can keep insisting that my monitor is going to dig. She is never going to dig. She has no drive to dig. She is not an 'abused and broken horse', JESUS.


Even when she barely hit a foot long, she would not dig in her enclosure which at the time, and at her size was well within the limits you guys have stated.

My lack of substrate is not wrong. It's useless to put a few feet of dirt in an environment with an animal that isn't going to use it.

I'm sorry my savanna is more tame than yours, but she is not ill or 'sluggish'.
Soaking is a normal behavior. She doesn't do it all day long because she's dehydrated, she just LIKES it once in a while, so I provide her with a dish large enough to lay in. She craps in there because she LIKES to.

She eats from my hand because I have her TRAINED. She comes when she is called, and recognizes several VERY SIMPLE hand commands because I spend LOTS of time caring for her.
But please, keep telling me everything you know about MY monitor, because I'm sure you all know her way better than I do. :)

---

Now she's trained to eat from your hand huh? She comes when called? You have all this time but no time to simply provide proper husbandry for it? Sounds like a load of BS to me!
News flash- my monitor is 100% healthy, is handle-able, will eat from my hand (not that I do/recommend this), and is even litter box trained and trained for in/out of enclosure while I do cleanings. All while at the end of the day, he's an active alert monitor who uses all of his caging and dirt substrate. Tell me, how big was your bosc at 1 year old? Mine was just over 3 foot long. Anyone care to wager this is another 1 year old 8 inch monitor that's so healthy?

For those reading this and seeking advice. Do not listen to this persons post if you want an active healthy monitor. Monitors need deep dirt, big custom enclosures, and to be kept PROPERLY. This is the exact reason most monitors never even come close to their 15-20 year life span, because people like this spread nonsense rumors around about monitor care.

Rhas, I don't care if you report me 100x over, if you cry yourself to sleep at night, if you end up giving up and getting out of reptiles all together. Your husbandry is garbage and you should not be giving advice on monitors. People like you are why monitors should be harder to get. People like you are why 99% of monitors die before hitting 2 years old. People like you are why experienced zoologists, varanid keepers, and TRUE reptile hobbyists have to work so damn hard at putting good information out there. People like you need to have your animals stripped away. You want an animal you can keep in a screen topped tank, go get a damn gerbil, leave the monitors alone.

I do agree that the monitor needs a larger tank, and it doesn't take to long to make one, so there is really no excuse for not having one. You really have to ask yourself these two questions:

Could it help the monitor?

Could it hurt the monitor?

First answer: Yes
Second: NO

So why not give it a shot? Your monitor might be happier, and at worst nothing bad will happen.

I love how well you guys read between the lines and get only the info you want from my posts. You should be politicians. :)

MMReptiles, thanks for the suggestion about the plywood. I don't know why I didn't think to do something so simple. I guess I was just fixated on making a nice new top like my old one, and didn't think that one through properly.


I didn't mean that the soil only weighed 100lbs either, was just saying why add the weight.
I don't know how many times I have to say she won't dig before you'll believe me, but lets put that subject to bed, because you're never going to agree with me.

Apple2, I've tried a few different soil mixtures, mulch, coconut fibers, everything you can imagine mixed in, and she just doesn't want to dig in it at all. She loves her pre-fab hide, and goes in it often, but if i block off the entrance, she just doesn't dig into it. :/
I thought that might encourage her, but she just doesn't want to. To everyone who says she should no matter what, I know it's natural behavior, but she doesn't do it. It's not un-common like Apple2 said for them to do things in captivity that are un-natural, such as, in my case, eating out of my hand, and responding to commands.

EDIT: Apple2, I couldn't possibly get, fit, or afford to build her a larger tank at this time. Sure it couldn't hurt at all, and may even help. But under my current circumstances there's just no way. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MMReptiles

People like you are why 99% of monitors die before hitting 2 years old.

---

Must have missed the part about her being 8.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apple2

If Rhasputin's monitor is happy, then there's nothing to worry about. Not all reptiles are the same. I have a BP that enjoys climbing trees and is rarely in a hide. Does this mean that she is neglected and unhappy? No, it just means that she is a bit different, and should have these needs met. She is happy, almost always eats, and has no problems being handled. I guess she's just an odd BP. Maybe the same is true for Rhasputin's monitor. Personally, I believe that reptiles should have the 'normal' accommodations, no matter how quirky the specific herp is. If they choose to use it, then the option is there. If they don't, no harm done. Not all reptiles are the same, and if Rhasputin's monitor isn't like other Savannas, then so be it. I would recommend giving the monitor the ability to burrow if she so chooses, even if she usually doesn't dig. It may be a bit more work, but it will give the monitor the ability to dig if she wants to. I'd try changing the substrate a few times to see if she chooses to dig in another type. I would also recommend a larger tank, if only to allow for a deeper soil. You can build a new custom enclosure in a few days, and it might make your monitor happier. Seems like it's worth a try!

Also, it seems as if this thread has turned into a big attack thread. People are accusing each others' husbandry right and left, while still not having given an answer to the OP.


-Apple2

---

Apples to oranges Mr. Apple.

Ball pythons have been observed taking to the trees in the wild to hunt. Your ball climbing and using branches is not abnormal behavior, it's hard wired into his pea sized brain.

Likewise many balls do not use a hide.

But for a varanid, digging into soil is much more than a security issue. It serves a number of biological functions - most important of these are thermoregulation and hydration.

Without a deep and appropriately comprised substrate, a monitor will suffer in the long run. Acting lazy and not digging are indications that something is wrong with the animal. Lazy is not normal for a monitor and not digging indicates that the material type and depth is unsuitable.

Let me state for the record, that it is impossible to properly care for a exanthematicus without an appropriate enclosure and deep substrate. A glass aquarium, with or without a screen top, is universally considered one of the worst choices for housing a varanid in. Can the animal live? You bet. But I can also stuff a person in a dark closet and have it live. It's the quality of life and overall health of the animal that should be considered, not the wounded pride of the owner.


For better or worse, this thread may be referenced by someone who is planning on getting a sav someday. While I certainly hope Mr. Rhasputin's monitor the best, I am more concerned with that next person who may read this and how they will parse this information.

8 year old female huh?? I call b.s.

I'm thinking your a troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MMReptiles

I feel left out, I'm offended! (I hate being new here!)

---

I apologize. Don't think I haven't noticed your advice to be helpful and accurate though. It's just that you are new and I don't lurk here enough. -lol-

It seems every Monitor thread goes the same way though. People aren't caring for them properly, advice is given (rather bluntly) and said individual gets offended.

Fyi, your thread on Mangroves inspired me to move forward into adding a new Monitor to my collection. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slayer

8 year old female huh?? I call b.s.

I'm thinking your a troll.

---

I've had her for 5 years, and the estimate before that was 2-3 years in the store,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michelle.C

I apologize. Don't think I haven't noticed your advice to be helpful and accurate though. It's just that you are new and I don't lurk here enough. -lol-

It seems every Monitor thread goes the same way though. People aren't caring for them properly, advice is given (rather bluntly) and said individual gets offended.

Fyi, your thread on Mangroves inspired me to move forward into adding a new Monitor to my collection. :)

---

The entire indicus complex is rather shy and I wouldn't recommend them as captives. 99% of the ones sold are very very shy animals who you will never see. Very fascinating complex if you have the eye for them and don't mind the shyness. I honestly prefer them over the prasinus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I love how well you guys read between the lines and get only the info you want from my posts. You should be politicians. :)

MMReptiles, thanks for the suggestion about the plywood. I don't know why I didn't think to do something so simple. I guess I was just fixated on making a nice new top like my old one, and didn't think that one through properly.


I didn't mean that the soil only weighed 100lbs either, was just saying why add the weight.
I don't know how many times I have to say she won't dig before you'll believe me, but lets put that subject to bed, because you're never going to agree with me.

Apple2, I've tried a few different soil mixtures, mulch, coconut fibers, everything you can imagine mixed in, and she just doesn't want to dig in it at all. She loves her pre-fab hide, and goes in it often, but if i block off the entrance, she just doesn't dig into it. :/
I thought that might encourage her, but she just doesn't want to. To everyone who says she should no matter what, I know it's natural behavior, but she doesn't do it. It's not un-common like Apple2 said for them to do things in captivity that are un-natural, such as, in my case, eating out of my hand, and responding to commands.

EDIT: Apple2, I couldn't possibly get, fit, or afford to build her a larger tank at this time. Sure it couldn't hurt at all, and may even help. But under my current circumstances there's just no way. :/

---

Of course, you didn't change the entire enclosure. Did you provide an 8x4x4 enclosure with proper humidity? Nope. I understand she won't dig in your craptastic 120 gallon tank. I wouldn't dig either with a few inches of substrate in a dry enclosure. Put her in an 8x4x4, with 2' of dirt. She WILL dig. However, in your cage, you have so many other flaws (humidity and temps etc) that she won't dig. If all your other conditions where right, she would be a digger. You are too prideful to admit this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I've had her for 5 years, and the estimate before that was 2-3 years in the store,

---

Estimates. LOL. No doubt your sav will die young, typical arrogant keepers who are too lazy to provide proper husbandry. Put your pride aside and think of the animal for awhile. You have people who have kept monitors a long time, zoologists, people with lifelong studies of these animals. Surely you aren't claiming to know more about your bosc monitor than people with degrees, papers, and many many many years of experience?

You're not listening.
When she was smaller her enclosure was easily within the range you suggested, with the ammount of dirt suggested, and she never even so much as scratched the dirt.

her cage is always moist, even over the past week with the crappy mesh lid, and she just doesn't do it. I don't know how else to tell you she won't. :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

You're not listening.
When she was smaller her enclosure was easily within the range you suggested, with the ammount of dirt suggested, and she never even so much as scratched the dirt.

her cage is always moist, even over the past week with the crappy mesh lid, and she just doesn't do it. I don't know how else to tell you she won't. :confused:

---

If the enclosure was ever an aquarium then no, it was not suitable. UNLESS YOU HAD A CUSTOM BUILT AND SEALED WOOD ENCLOSURE, YOU WHERE NOT KEEPING HER PROPERLY. Just because she was small doesn't mean your stupid aquarium was a proper house for her.

Plus, if you got her at 2-3 years old, and she was that much smaller, she has other issues. A healthy bosc will be almost adult size in the very first year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

You're not listening.
When she was smaller her enclosure was easily within the range you suggested, with the ammount of dirt suggested, and she never even so much as scratched the dirt.

her cage is always moist, even over the past week with the crappy mesh lid, and she just doesn't do it. I don't know how else to tell you she won't. :confused:

---

You're not listening either.

Your animal is not digging, it's soaking and acting lazy because you are not keeping it properly.

You can't just place her on any type of soil - it needs to be the correct type and consistency.

Healthy monitors dig. Healthy monitors are active. Healthy monitors require an appropriate substrate to thermoregulate and hydrate.

Without that essential requirement, your sav will not dig. You sav will act like a slug. Or as you put it:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

She's just a lazy lima bean

---

If your tank is the standard 125 gallon - it is probably in the neighborhood of 18" deep. A 125 gallon wide is 24" deep. You stated that your exanthematicus is 3' long. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

Your monitor is soaking in it's water bowl because you have not provided a suitable substrate for her to dig into and hydrate.

You are keeping your animal incorrectly and using her attempts to adapt to your bad husbandry as justification for how you keep her. You need to stop being so intent on defending yourself and do right by this animal.

This is like talking to a rock.
Your obviously too dense in the head and too frail in the ego departmen to admit your wrong and to learn a damn thing.
Its your monitor. Kill it how ever you like.

Rasputin isn't a troll, he has given me great advice in regards to some issues I had with my rat. That being said I do agree with everyone else's opinions, I had one that really didn't dig much, and was puppy dog tame as well. I did though provide her with the appropriate substrate, so if she wanted to dig she could. I also made her underground hides that she just loved, and I built her enclosure my self. It took up about half my bedroom when I lived at home with my patents, they thought I was nuts.

Now just because an animal doesn't want to do a natural behavior, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be provided with the opportunity to do it. It's our job as owners to provide them with proper husbandry, this is the responsibility we as humans take on when we take an animal out of the wild and choose to make it a pet. To do anything less is inhumane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

You're not listening.
When she was smaller her enclosure was easily within the range you suggested, with the ammount of dirt suggested, and she never even so much as scratched the dirt.

her cage is always moist, even over the past week with the crappy mesh lid, and she just doesn't do it. I don't know how else to tell you she won't. :confused:

---

Do you have any pictures of your set up? Of your monitor?

I can't say I know anything about monitors but the threads I've read, it's said time and time again that glass tanks are NOT the best option for a monitor, so why would you still keep yours in one? If there is a BETTER choice, why not take it? Maybe she is "happy" (not quite sure how you would even be able to judge that) but try getting her a better enclosure and maybe she could be even happier. Try listening to the advice of everyone on here, they aren't throwing this information at you so it goes in one ear and out the other. They are trying to give you useful information to better suit your monitor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MMReptiles

The entire indicus complex is rather shy and I wouldn't recommend them as captives. 99% of the ones sold are very very shy animals who you will never see. Very fascinating complex if you have the eye for them and don't mind the shyness. I honestly prefer them over the prasinus.

---

I'm quite familiar with indicus, as well as other semi arboreal, fragileish Monitors. We have three indicus at the place I volunteer at as well. Two of them are pretty shy, but our CB male is rather social if you given him proper time to come to you instead of yanking him around.

The shyness doesn't bother me at all, I keep Tarantulas and most of them are pet holes. :)

Monitor keeping is far from new for me though, but thanks for the heads up. It's very nice to see someone else that keeps a species I'm interested in.

I would like to add, unrelated to the above. Rhasputin is not a troll. He does offer quite accurate advice about rodents most of the time. The one problem I have with most of this hobby and it's people is the unwillingness to take advice. Even when you consider yourself an advanced hobbyist, there is always someone who can teach you something. Especially when they are reputable and it's a species they specialize in.

So, this Rhasputin character knows his rats. That's wonderful, and I'm sure rat keepers are glad to have him/her as a resource.

Rhasputin does not, however, know his/her varanids. He/she has one, and it's been telling him/her for five years that things are not right - and nothing is done to make things right. I have only seen references to the terrible setup offered, nothing about temps/diet/humidity.

My guesses are:

1. It's too cold. It doesn't have access to the proper temperatures to make it want to be a sav. So it lays around waiting to warm up properly.

2. It's fed an improper diet. I recall roaches being mentioned, which are great, but nothing else regarding variety/frequency.

3. It's small. This is just reinforcement to my first two guesses.

Rhasputin - Your monitor is not happy. It is dying a slow, agonizing death. It needs heat, proper diet and husbandry. You say there is no way in your current circumstances that you can construct a proper enclosure. You better remedy that pretty darn quick. You say you have a new job. Don't they pay you? I go and buy reptile food the day after payday BEFORE I go grocery shopping for myself.

Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mumps

So, this Rhasputin character knows his rats. That's wonderful, and I'm sure rat keepers are glad to have him/her as a resource.

Rhasputin does not, however, know his/her varanids. He/she has one, and it's been telling him/her for five years that things are not right - and nothing is done to make things right. I have only seen references to the terrible setup offered, nothing about temps/diet/humidity.

My guesses are:

1. It's too cold. It doesn't have access to the proper temperatures to make it want to be a sav. So it lays around waiting to warm up properly.

2. It's fed an improper diet. I recall roaches being mentioned, which are great, but nothing else regarding variety/frequency.

3. It's small. This is just reinforcement to my first two guesses.

Rhasputin - Your monitor is not happy. It is dying a slow, agonizing death. It needs heat, proper diet and husbandry. You say there is no way in your current circumstances that you can construct a proper enclosure. You better remedy that pretty darn quick. You say you have a new job. Don't they pay you? I go and buy reptile food the day after payday BEFORE I go grocery shopping for myself.

Chris

---

There's no doubt that what you are saying is 100% spot on. I've agreed with others about the same things you just mentioned. There is simply no way you can provide proper basking temperatures in a glass aquarium. Nor can you provide proper humidity.

I have always bought/built enclosures BEFORE I bought the animal. Not just hatchling enclosures, but at least a sub-adult enclosure even if the animal is a hatchling.

We also buy food for the animals, and get things taken care of at our vets before we buy things for us as well. It's nice to see someone just as dedicated. :)

I had a friend that was very happy over adding an Ornate Monitor to her collection. I think it was around 3-4 years old when it died. Anyway, she considers herself rather advanced in reptile keeping, but mostly just snakes. Well, I found out she had it in an aquarium around a year ago, among a few other husbandry mistakes. I messaged her a little over a month ago and found out it died a while back. These Monitors can appear perfectly normal, very healthy and then die quite suddenly if proper conditions aren't met.

My point is, a healthy appearing individual kept in improper conditions is just hiding symptoms. And not to point someone out in the crowd, but if you have a Monitor and it isn't doing "Monitor things", this is a symptom something could be wrong. Monitors are not individuals, they are a species. They follow instinct.

Oh, and I thought I'd mention. In the grand scheme of things. If you took a weekend to build a proper enclosure. You would probably actually end up being able to make money from selling the 125 gallon tank to a fish enthusiast and building a proper tank. I've seen several 125s sold for $200, and I can throw together a monitor enclosure (it won't look super pretty) for around $100 or less if I work at it.

Just sayin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michelle.C

My point is, a healthy appearing individual kept in improper conditions is just hiding symptoms. And not to point someone out in the crowd, but if you have a Monitor and it isn't doing "Monitor things", this is a symptom something could be wrong. Monitors are not individuals, they are a species. They follow instinct.

---

This is the case with most reptiles and other wild animals. The natural predation of the weak and infirm has caused many creatures to evolve to hide their injuries and illnesses. While I have no experience with monitors I can guess this is the case. If I am wrong I apologize.
This is also why I always advise a vet trip when someone "thinks" something is wrong with their animal, for it to be bad enough for us to see it, it is probably already in dire condition.

ive decided that im not ready for one

Seriously, I was one of the first ones to jump on MMReptiles for his rudeness, but Jesus Christ, Rhasputin! Use your brain!

These people are trying to HELP out you and your your monitor! They are damn right justified to be rude to you because you HAVEN'T listen to their advice ONE BIT.

Why do you still completely 100% insist that your husbandry is SPOT ON when they are POINTING OUT that there are specifics signs indicating that your monitor is in fact not doing well!? These signs are not to be ignored!

I don't even have the words right now.

:tears:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ball python 22

ive decided that im not ready for one

---

You might want to consider getting a different type of herp. Maybe later on when you've owned a few and have more experience you will feel ready to get the savannah.

-Apple2

Many people make the mistake of thinking that since they have cared for a snake or a lizard or another exotic that a varanid is a logical progression.

It's not.

To keep one properly and provide for it correctly is not only time consuming, but requires a commitment on a higher level than just about any other pet -with the exception of perhaps a dog.

Varanids, even the smallest ones, require space. They require custom enclosures. They require frequent feeding and acute attention to all husbandry parameters. They are intelligent and inquisitive and they interact with their environments in a way that no other reptile does.

After many years of owning them, I no longer own any. I have a whole building full of snakes. I have two dogs and I have a wife and two kids.

At a certain point I made a hard assessment of how much time I had to spend on my varanids. My long term sav had been put to sleep and my old dumerilii was also showing signs of having to deal with the imminent reality of mortality.

I found a committed person to take my ackies and decided that when my dumerilii went, I'd be done with varanids.

This last December I went into the snake house and found my old dumeril's dead. I owned him for almost 12 years (I have no idea how old he was when I got him).

After owning varanids for so long I am still amazed at how much easier my reptile regimen is - even with almost 30 snakes.

Varanids are not for the casual keeper and they are not an impulse purchase. They are intelligent animals that need owners who are willing to make sacrifices in order to keep them.

For many of who own or who have owned them, hearing that one is kept improperly is tantamount to animal abuse in the worst way. I have seen how stoically these animals will hang on in the worst husbandry conditions, living lives of abject misery.

Hearing that someone is claiming that a sav exhibiting abnormal and unhealthy behavior is somehow acceptable is very upsetting to a lot of us. Rhas - at this point this is not an attack on you. It's now a plea for you to do the right thing. Ditch the aquarium and provide for that animal the way it deserves to be provided for.

wow.
i learned alot about savannah monitors,witnessed the stubbornness of pride in a certain individual.
i think i can go die in a fish tank now.
:) :sleep: :tombstone :tp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Many people make the mistake of thinking that since they have cared for a snake or a lizard or another exotic that a varanid is a logical progression.

It's not.

To keep one properly and provide for it correctly is not only time consuming, but requires a commitment on a higher level than just about any other pet -with the exception of perhaps a dog.

Varanids, even the smallest ones, require space. They require custom enclosures. They require frequent feeding and acute attention to all husbandry parameters. They are intelligent and inquisitive and they interact with their environments in a way that no other reptile does.

After many years of owning them, I no longer own any. I have a whole building full of snakes. I have two dogs and I have a wife and two kids.

At a certain point I made a hard assessment of how much time I had to spend on my varanids. My long term sav had been put to sleep and my old dumerilii was also showing signs of having to deal with the imminent reality of mortality.

I found a committed person to take my ackies and decided that when my dumerilii went, I'd be done with varanids.

This last December I went into the snake house and found my old dumeril's dead. I owned him for almost 12 years (I have no idea how old he was when I got him).

After owning varanids for so long I am still amazed at how much easier my reptile regimen is - even with almost 30 snakes.

Varanids are not for the casual keeper and they are not an impulse purchase. They are intelligent animals that need owners who are willing to make sacrifices in order to keep them.

For many of who own or who have owned them, hearing that one is kept improperly is tantamount to animal abuse in the worst way. I have seen how stoically these animals will hang on in the worst husbandry conditions, living lives of abject misery.

Hearing that someone is claiming that a sav exhibiting abnormal and unhealthy behavior is somehow acceptable is very upsetting to a lot of us. Rhas - at this point this is not an attack on you. It's now a plea for you to do the right thing. Ditch the aquarium and provide for that animal the way it deserves to be provided for.

---

This is probably the best post I have read in a long time.

Thanks skip; you've earned my vote for "Post of the Year"; if there were such a thing.

And you're so correct. With 20bps, 4 tortoises, 2 SD retics, a yellow anaconda, a burm, a tomato frog and a cal king as well as my 2 ackies and an ornate, I spend a whole lot more time on the varanids than anything else; thankfully the girlfriend takes care of the torts.

Chris

Wow I could only read though 3 pages of this.

Its has already been answered,but fish tanks suck for varnids.You can use them for baby monitors with some modifications,like filling the tank halfway with dirt sold wood top,and the light inside the cage.But you will run into the problem with it over heating and if you use anything less than a 55 gallon,you will cook the animal.And if you have them set up right they grow so fast they will out grow the tank in a matter of weeks.So its better to make your own.

Someone else said there Savanna doesn't dig.If you offer 2 feet of dirt and your Savanna doesn't burrow,it could be because he dose not recognize it as dirt.Not all dirt is the same and not all monitor like the same type of dirt.This is something you will have to play around with,and most of it will be trail and error.


Now to you mmmreptile.I kind of find it funny how someone who can not take constructive criticism,can definitely put it out.This was this guys first post and you jumped all over him because he could not spell or have proper grammar.My spelling and grammar suck.Dose that mean I should not own a monitor?When someone has there first post,you help them not bash them.No one will learn from this.They will end up getting the lizard,but wont ask for help and the lizard suffers for it.

Now this was posted by you on another site

I pretty much dropped off the face of the earth for awhile. When I first got him, I put a lot of work into him, and he grew pretty well, however life ended up smacking me in the face and I spent 4 months doing next to nothing with him, including feeding. I'm not going to lie, I was a horrible horrible keeper and the poor guy suffered a great deal because of my negligence.

Now in that same 4 months you also purchased a Salvator.

Now which is worse?The guy who has no clue how to take care of a monitor,or the guy who dose and still neglects his animal.Now I do understand the things happen,and you already explained it.But the point is stuff happens we all make mistakes,Ive made a few in my day.If you live in a glass house don't throw stones.Help people we have all made mistakes.

Greg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gbassett

Now this was posted by you on another site

I pretty much dropped off the face of the earth for awhile. When I first got him, I put a lot of work into him, and he grew pretty well, however life ended up smacking me in the face and I spent 4 months doing next to nothing with him, including feeding. I'm not going to lie, I was a horrible horrible keeper and the poor guy suffered a great deal because of my negligence.

Now in that same 4 months you also purchased a Salvator.

Now which is worse?The guy who has no clue how to take care of a monitor,or the guy who dose and still neglects his animal.Now I do understand the things happen,and you already explained it.But the point is stuff happens we all make mistakes,Ive made a few in my day.If you live in a glass house don't throw stones.Help people we have all made mistakes.

Greg

---

Actually, I did not purchase the Salvator nor the indicus during that 4 months. I appreciate the accusations though. I can say during that 4 months I left my house maybe 5 times, my bed maybe once a day to use the restroom and get food.

There is a huge difference. You can at least manage to google the names of your monitor and paste them and have an intelligence discussion. There is a massive difference in just bad grammar because english is not your second language etc, or because you are just far too damn lazy. Can you not look at his post and see it's lazy and not well thought out, rushed, etc? Am I the only person in this entire thread that sees the OP did not even take 10 seconds to figure out the name of the animal he wanted to own? Come on Greg you should know better tan this.

This was this guys first post.He was asking a question BEFORE getting the animal.I wish more kids would do this.But you attacked him for his spelling errors.These forums are for helping people,not chasing them away.We should help them in the right direction,then later work on the grammar(but 9 times out of ten those who are serious about it there grammar comes along)Now the other guy on this thread,is a different story.Anyone not looking for help and doing thing his own way.Blast away.You have to remember we all where new to this at one point,and I remember when you where new.


Greg

Where? Over there? Oh. Ok.

Quote:

---

Actually, I did not purchase the Salvator nor the indicus during that 4 months. I appreciate the accusations though. I can say during that 4 months I left my house maybe 5 times, my bed maybe once a day to use the restroom and get food.

---

Well then you have no room to call someone lazy.

I think everyone would appreciate it if you just stopped being rude.

I get your passion for these animals and their care but your delivery leaves alot to be desired.

sent from my EVO

sent from my EVO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbean7916

Well then you have no room to call someone lazy.

I think everyone would appreciate it if you just stopped being rude.

I get your passion for these animals and their care but your delivery leaves alot to be desired.

sent from my EVO

sent from my EVO

---

Lazy? You stupid child because you feel the need to be an ass about it I will enlighten you. I was clinically depressed after some stuff happened in my family. The same depression another member of my family had as well. I got help for it, and began to take care of my animals again. The funny thing is, the only reason I managed to stay alive is because of my Nile and remembering I had a responsibility to him.

If you don't like my posts, block them. I have no desire to help someone who can't even manage to figure out the name of his animal.

And that, frankly, is just about enough of that.

I think it's about time this thread dies before it becomes nothing but personal attacks replacing the husbandry information.


dr del